My posts on Daz forums seldom go through lately, despite being honest and not inflammatory. But the mods really seem to be oversensitive these days. So I need to vent here... I've been using Daz about 10 years.

The way I see it and hear it, many of the long time users are saying: we all have enough content already, we are tired of rebuying the same stuff over and over with diminishing returns. We are sticking with G8/G8.1 as there is no real advantage to G9 (unless of course you cater to niche Futa or Transgender porn which I understand is very profitable, so if that's your thing more power to you, not judging you, we all need to make money). But for everyone else G9 sucks. It is impossible to make good looking men or women, mostly due to chest area problems, but also the joints suck, I have struggled with it for so long, I finally gave up and went back to G8F G8M where I can make any female or male that I envision in my head. I wasted way too much money on G9 and should have returned it all, but didn’t. I struggled for quite a few months, trying to give G9 a good go, buying the necessary tools, morphs and add-ons, all for naught.

And now with subscription based 2-tier Daz Studio (Premier or Free) that is also making people hesitant to buy-in, since the 2 tier system could at any time switch to a 1-tier Premier only system with the Free tier no longer upgraded, especially regarding all the plug-ins we all count on, many of whom have PAs who have moved on or in some cases passed away, RIP.

So if that happens and the majority long time users are stuck with Daz Studio 4.x and G8 in order to use all our existing plug-ins and scripts, then there will be no market for a Genesis 10. There will not be enough new money coming in to support it. Especially with the way AI is advancing. And also the newer user base seems to be coming mostly from overseas from China and India. That could be a good thing, since they are large markets BUT there is so much pirating of Daz assets now with these overseas sites, and no respect of copyrights at all. So many sites exist now where all the content is free, and it is not taken down EVER. In the past I would see these sites get pulled, but now they flagrantly stay up indefinitely. If I was a PA I would be sick of that and probably quit. Within days of new release, new content finds its way onto those pirate sites, I can only assume because it is out of the jurisdiction of any US authorities or maybe it is just not big enough to go after. Like who even goes after that? Interpol? I don’t know.

On top of all that is now the lack of incentive for artists to post their work on the major social media sites due AI using your content for AI training and remixing into their own content.  Why bother uploading if the algorithms will steal you content, then effectively shadowban your account, then remix the content and profit from it on promoted accounts? That is already happening, so a lot of artists are leaving social media. So then who is left? Strictly those of us who are poor, masochistic artists who simply want to create for the sake of creating, something drives us to create, but we will just use our old software and old assets until we croak. The future is indeed grim for Daz Studio.

Some countries have no concept of copyright or IP. Everybody copies and pirates everything and it's fine.

Just to note, there is only one version of Daz Studio - Premier is additional features and plug-ins, nothing has been removed from the free base application and new stuff has been added since the start of Premier.

RHaseltine posted at 2:44 PM Sun, 4 May 2025 - #4495683

Just to note, there is only one version of Daz Studio - Premier is additional features and plug-ins, nothing has been removed from the free base application and new stuff has been added since the start of Premier.

Also missed by point. Do they actually pay you to cheerlead here Richard? 

GeorgeWeber posted at 7:37 AM Sun, 4 May 2025 - #2992901

My posts on Daz forums seldom go through lately, despite being honest and not inflammatory. But the mods really seem to be oversensitive these days. So I need to vent here... I've been using Daz about 10 years.

The way I see it and hear it, many of the long time users are saying: we all have enough content already, we are tired of rebuying the same stuff over and over with diminishing returns. We are sticking with G8/G8.1 as there is no real advantage to G9 (unless of course you cater to niche Futa or Transgender porn which I understand is very profitable, so if that's your thing more power to you, not judging you, we all need to make money). But for everyone else G9 sucks. It is impossible to make good looking men or women, mostly due to chest area problems, but also the joints suck, I have struggled with it for so long, I finally gave up and went back to G8F G8M where I can make any female or male that I envision in my head. I wasted way too much money on G9 and should have returned it all, but didn’t. I struggled for quite a few months, trying to give G9 a good go, buying the necessary tools, morphs and add-ons, all for naught.

And now with subscription based 2-tier Daz Studio (Premier or Free) that is also making people hesitant to buy-in, since the 2 tier system could at any time switch to a 1-tier Premier only system with the Free tier no longer upgraded, especially regarding all the plug-ins we all count on, many of whom have PAs who have moved on or in some cases passed away, RIP.

So if that happens and the majority long time users are stuck with Daz Studio 4.x and G8 in order to use all our existing plug-ins and scripts, then there will be no market for a Genesis 10. There will not be enough new money coming in to support it. Especially with the way AI is advancing. And also the newer user base seems to be coming mostly from overseas from China and India. That could be a good thing, since they are large markets BUT there is so much pirating of Daz assets now with these overseas sites, and no respect of copyrights at all. So many sites exist now where all the content is free, and it is not taken down EVER. In the past I would see these sites get pulled, but now they flagrantly stay up indefinitely. If I was a PA I would be sick of that and probably quit. Within days of new release, new content finds its way onto those pirate sites, I can only assume because it is out of the jurisdiction of any US authorities or maybe it is just not big enough to go after. Like who even goes after that? Interpol? I don’t know.

On top of all that is now the lack of incentive for artists to post their work on the major social media sites due AI using your content for AI training and remixing into their own content.  Why bother uploading if the algorithms will steal you content, then effectively shadowban your account, then remix the content and profit from it on promoted accounts? That is already happening, so a lot of artists are leaving social media. So then who is left? Strictly those of us who are poor, masochistic artists who simply want to create for the sake of creating, something drives us to create, but we will just use our old software and old assets until we croak. The future is indeed grim for Daz Studio.

THIS person gets it.  Thank you.

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

Piracy is not only taking money from Daz or whatever company. It's also taking money from the people who made the stuff. If everybody takes pirate copies, there won't be any money for the stores or the creators and that will be the end of it.

Every store takes a cut, gotta pay the bills. The creators get the rest. I got a friend who published pdfs. I helped him, too. Every product he ever published showed up on a pirate site within 24 hours. Same is true for Daz products, as Richard knows too well. There's no DMCA takedown notice or other recourse for stuff that ends up on pirate sites in countries with no copyright or IP enforcement. My friend and I talked about it a lot! You can't prevent items from turning up on the pirate sites, and can't get them taken down. So what kind of people are downloading the stuff? Mostly people who were never going to buy the stuff anyway. These people are never going to be customers.

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I'm sorry Gohan. I do not agree with a word of this. I know what goes into making a product, any product. To lose income to piracy in the way you describe is hurtful to the creators of the work, to the company, and ultimately to the community. The perception that a company is greedy boils down to the company exists to make money. Well, companies exist to make money. Companies that don't make money die - Normal companies, not the venture-capital-funded Silicon Valley wonder companies. Yet, even some of those fail. So, piracy as you describe hurts creative people as well as bean counters. Meanwhile, the pirate sites often profit from their piracy. 

I look at the Daz site and I know from experience that there are times I can get thousands of dollars worth of stuff for 95-98% off. Well, it's a pretty good deal. No, it's not the newest stuff. It's stuff I want to play around with. So, it's good! I don't need to be a pirate. I need to be a little patient and ready to spend a bit when the stars align. And now, I really just need to render more. Truth!

Just a reminder:

Renderosity has a zero-tolerance policy for software piracy. That includes offering pirated software, asking for it as well as encouraging others to do it.

Bannable on the first offense.

lol "I love using this thing, I think it fosters degeneracy and immorality, I think it's okay to steal it because I like having it without paying for it, I deserve to have it and you don't deserve my money for it, I'm a good person"

e: WOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel like Genesis 9 is a move to "quiet quit" male characters. 

I understand the theory behind making a "unisex" mesh for content creators, but why does the chest need to have a denser mesh with sculpted, full breasts in order to do that?  What male or unisex clothes needs to cup the breasts? Most men and male identifying people don't wear bras or bikini tops. And there are very few male characters that I feel have successfully dialed awat the breasts without leaving a clear impression of under & between breast cleavage. To me, it's like the old Vittorio morph for Victoria 4 - a compromised male shape made from a female figure. 

I actually don't understand the theory ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

do I think it's going to ~make daz go out of business~? lmao no

True, there's probably enough people who want to put white women in lingerie to keep the lights on. 

When I used to make a lot of stuff,  people liked it,  people bought it,  and there was an incentive to make more stuff.

Lately,  whether I  make stuff or not,  there are less customers buying,   and there is only a tiny fraction of sales compared to years past.  Again, Less incentive to make stuff.

There was a time,  when having a healthy deep catalogue of older products was going to keep a healthy trickle to balance everything out. That's gone too.  we get half of that 90-95% off,  its literally pennies per sale. Customers win,  by getting quality products.  Daz usually gets a new release sale as an incentive to trigger the extreme discount,  so they dont lose.   PAs though,  they absolutely lose.

There is no incentive to make stuff anymore.  So who looses?  If you do the math,  it is fairly obvious.

As GeorgeWeber says,  most of us already have a lifetimes worth of content in our libraries that we can put to good use for a long while.  So we might as well start rendering something.  There is still some joy in that. 

As for  those unethical criminal pirates that blatter nonsensical justification for their bad behaviour,  there are no words,  it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

First bastion, you are not the first person I’ve heard say some of those things. You have added more depth. It is a problem.

Well said FirstBastion.

And sorry to hear the reality, but it's always been that way unfortunately. In the '80's, I used to work for an internationally distributed manufacturer of photo processing equipment, tech support & R&D. Tried to warn them of what was coming on the digital front back in 1986.

They're no longer in existence.

But as you mention (or paraphrasing) GeorgeWeber, simply digging into what you have in the toybox and trying some different combinations should keep ya busy for quite awhile.

That & finding things you bought & forgot you had. <sigh>

But as a recent example, & using one of FirstBastion products in fact:

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2992565/using-older-assets-with-new

I will say, the few times I've tried selling content it was super disconcerting and shitty to see it immediately posted on the piracy sites. Really struck a blow against ~The Man~ there dudes lol

FirstBastion posted at 6:41 PM Wed, 7 May 2025 - #4495826

When I used to make a lot of stuff,  people liked it,  people bought it,  and there was an incentive to make more stuff.

Lately,  whether I  make stuff or not,  there are less customers buying,   and there is only a tiny fraction of sales compared to years past.  Again, Less incentive to make stuff.

There was a time,  when having a healthy deep catalogue of older products was going to keep a healthy trickle to balance everything out. That's gone too.  we get half of that 90-95% off,  its literally pennies per sale. Customers win,  by getting quality products.  Daz usually gets a new release sale as an incentive to trigger the extreme discount,  so they dont lose.   PAs though,  they absolutely lose.

There is no incentive to make stuff anymore.  So who looses?  If you do the math,  it is fairly obvious.

As GeorgeWeber says,  most of us already have a lifetimes worth of content in our libraries that we can put to good use for a long while.  So we might as well start rendering something.  There is still some joy in that. 

As for  those unethical criminal pirates that blatter nonsensical justification for their bad behaviour,  there are no words,  it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

This. I've stopped making content after the barrage of comments that even 5 dollars was too much to pay. And seeing brand new products of mine selling for as low as 42 cents. Yes. 42 cents.

And yes, the content would end up on piracy sites within a day.

So prices were lower, and sales were lower. What incentive is there to continue making content, especially when potential buyers don't appreciate it?

I've never pirated 3d content and I wouldn't. I've been a customer here and at DAZ3D for 22 years. I have too much respect for the technical skills one has to develop to make things, even if I don't particularly like the offering. I don't have any respect for people who aren't willing to compensate the artists who make this an enjoyable hobby.

My own opinion is the feedback loop of the general marketplace has led to where we are today. 

For many years, DAZ has offered several new items most days of the week, and they are always discounted. As all the software has improved, and the figures have gotten more complex, I speculate it takes longer to produce quality content. I think the "new items every day, always on sale" expectation has conditioned customers to both underestimate the work it takes to make content and undervalue the final product. It also feeds into FOMO. 

For vendors, I think that customer expectation, combined with the nature of the marketplace, makes it really hard to get a return on their time and investment. If it doesn't sell well in the first couple of days, it's probably not going to sell later. So for the PAs that want to make money, it's smart to focus on what's going to give them the best ROI. if they want to indulge their artist side more and make something from a purely creative endeavor, they likely have to accept they won't make a profit off it - which is something any artist has to deal with. 

I think all that combined leads to more of the same items of the same genres, sometimes with improvements, other times not. And dinosaurs like me who aren't keen on what they are seeing and haven't learned to model their own stuff yet either drift off to other interests or keep using all their old content, which also means we aren't supporting the market. 

But this is a financial transaction, and I'm not supporting a market that isn't supporting me and interests. It's not a charity. I used to buy things made for male characters that I didn't really have a use for to show my support, but when the quality is declining and tapering off, I can see that it didn't really do anything but give the message "I'll accept whatever you make." 

DeeceyArt posted at 7:16 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495852

This. I've stopped making content after the barrage of comments that even 5 dollars was too much to pay. And seeing brand new products of mine selling for as low as 42 cents. Yes. 42 cents.

And yes, the content would end up on piracy sites within a day.

So prices were lower, and sales were lower. What incentive is there to continue making content, especially when potential buyers don't appreciate it?

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

pjz99 posted at 10:34 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495860

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

No, the Daz site. It happens as a result of insane stacking and tokens taken together, sometimes with a coupon. I usually only get the best deals on DO items - stuff Daz store bought from the vendors. That or when it's decade-old stuff for M4/V4 and the like. That Deceey reports it happens on new PA stuff is alarming. FWIW, it seems starting prices and average prices are both on the rise there, but that does not account for the effect of stacking, tokens, etc.

Prices SHOULD go up, aside from raw cost of living increases, nobody has the slightest idea how much work goes into making a highly polished piece of content, and then there's the enormous set up cost of hardware and tools and prerequisite content.

pjz99 posted at 10:34 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495860

DeeceyArt posted at 7:16 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495852

This. I've stopped making content after the barrage of comments that even 5 dollars was too much to pay. And seeing brand new products of mine selling for as low as 42 cents. Yes. 42 cents.

And yes, the content would end up on piracy sites within a day.

So prices were lower, and sales were lower. What incentive is there to continue making content, especially when potential buyers don't appreciate it?

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

Nope, with all the sales and stackable deals at Daz, I saw things selling for under a buck by the time all the discounts and coupons and shares were taken out. It was very discouraging. Especially when there was thread after thread of people complaining that even five dollars was too much to pay for any content.

To that I would say to those that set that limit, think about the time involved in creating content. A set of clothing rigged with morphs. A detailed prop set like Stonemason makes. How long do you think that will take to create something that meets DAZ standards for release?  I have to wonder how many other PAs are so discouraged and don't make content anymore. 8-(

It's not delightful in any dimension, no. If customer count is declining (and that's likely) prices likely have to go up to make ends meet. And yet, that may also drive customers away because of previous practices. And there is the "full up" factor. With thousands of items in the library, how much more do people in that situation need? And you, pjz99, don't even have a store - You're making freebies - They're pretty good, too! I don't have a conclusion except that I myself end up buying less stuff. And I'm also drowning in freebies.

Torquinox posted at 10:55 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495861

pjz99 posted at 10:34 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495860

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

No, the Daz site. It happens as a result of insane stacking and tokens taken together, sometimes with a coupon. I usually only get the best deals on DO items - stuff Daz store bought from the vendors. That or when it's decade-old stuff for M4/V4 and the like. That Deceey reports it happens on new PA stuff is alarming. FWIW, it seems starting prices and average prices are both on the rise there, but that does not account for the effect of stacking, tokens, etc.

Not often but I remember a couple or three of them did sneak by.  I tried to look back but the reports seem to have changed a bit and I'm not sure how to get the combination that shows the applied discounts.

imo "what you are actually going to get paid for X" should be on the default report but that's just me

It varies, depending on whatever discounts were applied to the order.  I did find one product that sold for a 90-95 discount on the first day of release, so yeah they did sneak through now and then depending on how those discounts and stuff were stacked. Others of the same product sold at about 70-75% discount on the first day. 

Things may have changed since then. I hope so. Hoping that eventually things settle out because I do enjoy making content ... but it would be nice to feel appreciated. 8-)

FirstBastion posted at 6:41 PM Wed, 7 May 2025 - #4495826

When I used to make a lot of stuff,  people liked it,  people bought it,  and there was an incentive to make more stuff.

Lately,  whether I  make stuff or not,  there are less customers buying,   and there is only a tiny fraction of sales compared to years past.  Again, Less incentive to make stuff.

There was a time,  when having a healthy deep catalogue of older products was going to keep a healthy trickle to balance everything out. That's gone too.  we get half of that 90-95% off,  its literally pennies per sale. Customers win,  by getting quality products.  Daz usually gets a new release sale as an incentive to trigger the extreme discount,  so they dont lose.   PAs though,  they absolutely lose.

There is no incentive to make stuff anymore.  So who looses?  If you do the math,  it is fairly obvious.

As GeorgeWeber says,  most of us already have a lifetimes worth of content in our libraries that we can put to good use for a long while.  So we might as well start rendering something.  There is still some joy in that. 

As for  those unethical criminal pirates that blatter nonsensical justification for their bad behaviour,  there are no words,  it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

This is sad to hear, but thank you for your input FirstBastion and confirmation of what I have heard from others. I have loved your stuff at Daz and bought so many of your products there over the years, they are so great for kit-bashing and fast to render, yet high quality environments.  the fact that this downturn in 3D is effecting you as well, says a lot about the state of things.

And also thanks to those Freebie creators like pjz99 who just keep plugging away and giving to us freely, its truly appreciated.  Thank you!

And DeeceyArt, Daz really screwed things up with the new token thing, I think they really underestimated how everything would work together and stack and now they seem to be caught in a bind of how do they dial it back. There was a time when 75-85 percent off was considered great, an instant buy.  but now the token thing has made it so 95% off is almost the new norm. In fact the 70% off Fast Grabs, which were once a daily staple that I would check everyday, I doubt anyone even looks at them anymore, they have been made obsolete. Once a new norm is created, that is what the buyers hold out on. Its an ugly mess.  When I did one month of Prime during this past March Madness sale, I remember my overall avg discount for everything was 94-95% off due to the tokens. It almost felt like stealing. I have no idea if changes have been made since then, I haven't bought anything since then. But it was obvious to me this is not sustainable for creators. It felt like a going out of business sale where they are just discounting things so much just to get the last bit of juice out of buyers and not caring about the PAs. I hope that is not the case. 

I don't imagine store credit discounted at 30% or more will help the bottom line of any PA, either. It does, of course, benefit Daz store as they take the money on account. It multiplies purchase power for the customer, but necessarily discounts money paid to eligible recipients.

Torquinox posted at 9:04 AM Sat, 10 May 2025 - #4495945

I don't imagine store credit discounted at 30% or more will help the bottom line of any PA, either. It does, of course, benefit Daz store as they take the money on account. It multiplies purchase power for the customer, but necessarily discounts money paid to eligible recipients.

As far as  I know the PAs get the value of any GC used, the discount comes out of Daz' cut.

Thank you for the clarification, Richard! That is good to know.

I'm not paying for a Pro version of DAZ Studio when the people running DAZ already screwed its customers over in the past on that exact same issue, I'm not paying for content and features that I lose if I stop subscribing, and I'm not supporting a subscription that requires periodic call-ins to DAZ's servers. 

Up until the recent changes, I used to have a $100+-a-week habit at DAZ, but I haven't bought a thing from them since then, meaning that in the last five months or so, DAZ and its vendors have lost out on at least $2.5K-to-$3K or so from just me alone. I keep reading posts from other users saying that they're scaling back on their purchases or opting out entirely for these exact same reasons, I don't see anyone claiming to have increased their purchases to make up for the lost revenue, and I seriously doubt that DAZ is attracting enough new customers to make up for those of us who've dropped out. 

I fully expect to see Tafi try to sell off DAZ in an attempt to recoup something from the wreckage, or failing that, to shut it down entirely to stop the bleeding.

Just my two cents…

I’m frequently surprised by how reasonable product prices are, here, at DAZ, RenderHub, wherever.

if it passes the “could I do it myself for anything close to what they’re asking?” test, it’s a good deal.

if it passes the test and I can’t afford it, I do what others here have wisely suggested:  I have fun with what I already have.

Sticking It to THE MAN!!!  God, I feel like I do that when I download freebies here without thanking the creators, and I feel awful about it!

Some people give so much it seems too damn hard to write a thoughtful “thanks” for EVERY contribution!

zoro_d pjz99 richardandtracy spacebones etc etc etc etc etc

THANK YOU!!!  Please keep it up!!!  I love your work, and I’m sorry I haven’t always told you this!!!

btw…I’d like to give something back.  Is there a way to share a figure’s MAT zones without giving away the geometry?

pjz99 inspired me to learn more about Geoshells, and I ran with it!

I’ve come up with a way to make a nice body stocking with…exposure…that someone might like.

Yeah, whatever, I’m a perv.  It also looks like something a woman could actually climb inside and physically put on, so THERE!

GeorgeWeber posted at 3:08 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495692

RHaseltine posted at 2:44 PM Sun, 4 May 2025 - #4495683

Just to note, there is only one version of Daz Studio - Premier is additional features and plug-ins, nothing has been removed from the free base application and new stuff has been added since the start of Premier.

Also missed by point. Do they actually pay you to cheerlead here Richard? 

Do I touch this comment? Do I dare? 

YES! I DO!

Listen "richard" we all get it. You work for them. You are obligated to say they are the gods gift to 3d…even when it is painfully clear…they are scamming people. Ignoring support tickets(I have very hard proof of that). You come running and stand defending them…even in the face of irrefutable issues. 
There is a point, I have to wonder why on earth are you doing it?
You have defended the fact of them ripping people off over the “subscription” issue. Even trying to “explain” how we didn't get ripped off. 
You defend their lack of support. I have emails LAST WEEK…that are “replying” to support tickets from…(no joke) 2023! 
You defend them blatantly censoring people (and support it).
When, or rather, where…is the line?

What other business/company would have support tickets being answered YEARS later? And it be “acceptable”?
You know Daz is running roughshod over loyal, longstanding customers…never mind new ones that do not know the history.

So when….Do you actually hold a hand up and go "actually, you guys may have a point"?


As for the history?
It will stay fairly usable. They will make it harder and harder for “original” content, though(lets be fair they are ripping off almost every franchise and artists now). They will leech on to other programs to extend their “life”. 
But I have one thing to say to those wondering….
UNREAL ENGINE.
Oh, well, two things...

METAHUMAN!

And here is the best word of all…"FREE".

Daz continues to get away with this behaviour…because CUSTOMERS CONTINUE TO ALLOW IT.
That is the hard, cold, brutal truth of it.

Some vendors are ONLY at daz, and we know, to get their items, we have to go to daz. 
But that is quickly losing its pull....

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I am sorry. No. Piracy is NOT the answer. Why? 
Its not "Daz" taking the hit. They have their backsides covered. Its the artists. 
The artists that are just like you and me and everyone...trying to earn a penny for our hard work. 
Dont take that away from them, because companies like Daz are stealing from them already.

instead, urge artists to start selling on other sites or their own sites! Urge artists to sell directly to buyers!
Support artists...dont support companies already stealing from them.

pjz99 posted at 11:21 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495759

lol "I love using this thing, I think it fosters degeneracy and immorality, I think it's okay to steal it because I like having it without paying for it, I deserve to have it and you don't deserve my money for it, I'm a good person"

e: WOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No no no, that is not woke. That is entitled. Different things.

There is nothing "woke" about supporting stealing from hard working artists already getting ripped off by a company taking their profits.
There is nothing "woke" about hurting artists just trying to earn a living.
That is not woke...that is entitled. 

Big difference.  

And I cant stress it enough...piracy doesnt hurt the "big companies" it hurts the artists. The companies will have insurances to cover loss. Most artists dont. They are already busting their backsides for the pennies companies like Daz give them.
Theft...is not the answer. 

Late reaction, I know the thread is dated (!) but still wanted to comment.

I think there's more to this story than just Daz Studio alone, this goes way deeper.

First the Daz3d company...  in my opinion they don't really innovate, they're simply milking the market. That's not necessarily a bad thing mind you, but... it also results in consumers not getting the quality that they could have.  When I got into Daz Studio (now an easy 10 or so years ago) I went all out: also bought into Hexagon & Bryce 7. So now look where those two projects are at?  Abandoned is what. Sure, there's a beta version of Hexagon out there but at this time these two software environments are honestly a bit of a joke; - with all due respect -.

Hexagon is fun, but Blender is a heck of a lot better (note: I don't even like Blender myself!).  Bryce 7 then...  the funny thing is that last weekend I began studying options for terrain building because I'm getting tired of having to wonder what scenery I'll be using for my render and Bryce is becoming more and more frustrating to use. Lo and behold: I discovered software like TerraGen, Gaea and then discovered that you can now also download E-On's Vue and PlantFactory for free!  Fun fact about TerraGen (and Gaea): they also provide free to use ("community") versions (I am planning to grab licenses though), and those free versions easily blow Bryce out of the water. Well.. Bryce and that new UltraScenery 2 plugin.

One could argue that the Daz3D company is somewhat getting desperate for revenue. I base this opinion on that awful NFT push, but also considering that they're abandoning projects like Hexagon and Bryce, trying to reduce overhead (= my opinion!) by going back to a uniform Genesis base model and of course: they're also reducing features in Daz Studio itself. Latest development is that support for 3Delight is going to get removed.

... speaking of which: the 3Delight engine itself has been in continuous development, latest release is from last year. But Daz3d couldn't be bothered to keep up it seems.

Now... it may sound like I'm heavily criticizing the Daz3d company, and in a way I do (that NFT nonsense was too close to a legalized scam in my opinion), but this brings us to another issue... I can't help but wonder if the whole CGI market isn't in a bit of decline?

The Bentley Systems company took over E-On (I'm assuming for their expertise), and then they just started giving away Vue and PlantFactory and tons of assets. ...including the right to use this for commercial purposes. And do not underestimate this like I did: I began working with Vue to see what it's all about I'd say it's the holy grail for any type of Daz Studio user!  There may not be a direct bridge, but it's easy to export meshes and generate HDR domes to complement all that.

TerraGen and Gaea are world / terrain builders which have also been used in high end movie productions. And yet simple hobbyists like myself are allowed to pick up a free version (sometimes even for commercial purposes), and better yet: their licenses are IMO also very much affordable at $199 (Gaea even has an Indie license that goes for $99).

My point you wonder?  When I like something I try to learn as much about it as I can, and I know for a fact that both TerraGen and Gaea used to sell for much more (not that I'm complaining ;)).

Then another issue: the downfall of the ShareCG website?

If you ask me then the whole market is having issues.

Of course.. just my 2 cents.

That is mostly speculation built on speculation, but to address one more substantial point:

> ... speaking of which: the 3Delight engine itself has been in continuous development, latest release is from last year. But Daz3d couldn't be bothered to keep up it seems.

Any update beyond the version of 3Delight in DS would have stopped supporting RSL shaders, meaning every material would need updating and every sahder set would need rewriting. The change would have been as great as the change to Iray For usability purposes there wasn't an update for 3Delight and that is why Daz didn't add new versions.

I also have to point out that Daz did in fact release several new versions of both Bryce and Carrara, and has of course added many new features to Daz Studio (without needing to update the version number each time, one of the benefits of a free application).

RHaseltine posted at 2:06 PM Wed, 23 July 2025 - #4498044

That is mostly speculation built on speculation, but to address one more substantial point:

With all due respect, but it's kinda easy to brush something off without providing any further argumentation. It's simply a matter of a fact that companies don't start pushing subscription models for no specific reason, and that reason is always based on revenue; or needs thereof. And when looking at the market as-is then there's quite a bit of competition going on, which means that markets can't "just" increase their prices without risking the loss of potential customers.

> ... speaking of which: the 3Delight engine itself has been in continuous development, latest release is from last year. But Daz3d couldn't be bothered to keep up it seems.

Any update beyond the version of 3Delight in DS would have stopped supporting RSL shaders, meaning every material would need updating and every sahder set would need rewriting.

I'm aware, NSI vs. RSL.  While I know (much!) better than to "just" question your opinion I still can't help having some doubts when it comes to the actual impact of such a conversion. I base that opinion on both my own experiences (albeit small!) with the current version of the 3Delight NSI render engine, but also on my many experimentations with using assets that were fully build for one engine (RSL or MDL) and then use those with the other. These experimentations obviously involved more software other than Daz Studio, but still...  it doesn't take away the fact that in many cases (definitely not all of them!) the results were actually pretty good all things considered.

Now, this may be a bit of an unfair comment on my end (sorry!) but wouldn't it also be fair to say that the involved costs were also a major factor?

I also have to point out that Daz did in fact release several new versions of both Bryce and Carrara, and has of course added many new features to Daz Studio (without needing to update the version number each time, one of the benefits of a free application).

Absolutely true.. but.. also easily ignored others. There's still a working bridge for Daz Studio to send assets into Bryce 7, but doing it the other way around (= from Bryce to DS) hasn't worked for many years.

Anyway, one way or the other: thanks for your comment, I very much appreciate it. Seriously, a bit off topic perhaps but I never stopped valuing your input and/or comments. I still highly admire your devotion and your willingness to help out others. My respect for you never changed.

DarkElegance posted at 11:23 AM Thu, 10 July 2025 - #4497715

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I am sorry. No. Piracy is NOT the answer. Why? 
Its not "Daz" taking the hit. They have their backsides covered. Its the artists. 
The artists that are just like you and me and everyone...trying to earn a penny for our hard work. 
Dont take that away from them, because companies like Daz are stealing from them already.

instead, urge artists to start selling on other sites or their own sites! Urge artists to sell directly to buyers!
Support artists...dont support companies already stealing from them.

Renderhub is a much better site to start selling on.  But many PAs won't do it.  It is not my fault they won't listen.  Maybe when they start losing money selling on DAZ alone, it will wake them up that DAZ is not benefiting them as a whole.

And these PAs need to know one good thing they have over DAZ:  DAZ NEEDS THEM to succeed.  Without them, they are toast.  Majority of revenue comes from them.  Not these base models.  PA created content is where much of their money comes from, and if they wish to keep their artists happy, then they better start giving them MORE of the money.

Renderhub doesn't take anything and that is why many are now selling on that site.

I am not trying to endorse it, Dark.  I am just trying to state the situation that this INDUSTRY or industries as a whole is in.  People are SICK of Degeneracy, Indoctrination, Propaganda, you name it being put into Movies, TV Shows, Video Games, you name it.  We are sick of the PANDERING of mental illness and yes it is a MENTAL ILLNESS!

I don't care what anyone on this forum says otherwise cause they are just talking through their brainwashing.   It is a PROVEN FACT!

I don't especially trust renderhub. Some of the stuff I've got from there is set up strangely, missing obvious things like the 90px icons that show up in the item queue in DS, their prices are higher, and their free section is becoming sort of a cesspool of crap. Even before CGShare died, they had more than their fair share of game rips and editorial licensed stuff. It all makes me hesitant to shop there. I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Also, a long-time Daz PA told me a while ago how the money situation is for them. They described Rendo here as hobby money and Daz as a place that allows them to earn a living, own a house, a car, etc. Other PAs seem just as loyal and committed to selling on Daz site.

I know some current and former PAs are not as rosy about selling on Daz site. Even so, I have not heard any tales of folks earning their fortunes on renderhub. Not saying it's not happened, just saying I've got no evidence to confirm or deny the notion. 

Just my 2 cents :

I'm working in the health system in France. Quite a long time ago, in the senveties, we had top notch public hospitals. 30 years ago, our governements decided this was not the way "businesses" are meant to work. A bunch of (costly) technocrats, were dedicated to a sort of lean management. Since then, the national health system is more and more costly, with lesser benefits to the inpatients. Money is evaporating somewhere !

Meanwhile they decided to stealthily privatise the health system. Except that a lot of big private practices are in fact owned by huge investments funds, KKR, and so on. And guess what ? Prices are going up, while quality is going down. 

I'm pretty sure Tafy is doing the same with Daz.

Return on investment is alas inversely proportionate to quality. It's unfortunately, the world we are living in and it's almost impossible to get out.

It's probably time to go back to manual arts, be it painting or drawing...

Have a nice day

Torquinox posted at 11:48 AM Thu, 24 July 2025 - #4498052

I don't especially trust renderhub. Some of the stuff I've got from there is set up strangely, missing obvious things like the 90px icons that show up in the item queue in DS, their prices are higher, and their free section is becoming sort of a cesspool of crap.

I don't trust Renderhub at all, and for very good reasons.

At the risk of pushing my luck a bit but I'm a product tester for "another ("naughty") 3D market site". No, not Daz3d (lol, sorry!), with 'naughty' I'm referring to the fact that the specialty of "our" house is erotica. Yah, the competition if you will but I have way too much respect for Renderosity to even want to mention names (I hate spam as much as anyone else).

Enough blabbering => my point being: I'm in a team of product testers, we get products on our plate, we test them best to our abilities and report back. Now, whatever you may think of "naughty (3D) websites": we do have our standards, high standards.

"We" (I only speak for myself but also refer to ... you know) ... so 'we' burned / denied several products because they were just utterly ridiculous. Morphs were all over the place (meaning: a head morph also changed the body), skin maps were blatant copies of other (sometimes Daz3d original) products (BIG no, no), teen figures (not gonna elaborate), and also the classic: it doesn't work. Aka: you're almost wondering if the vendor actually understands his own darn product because the paths to textures and the likes didn't add up, like, at all.

Fun fact: Most of those products which "we" denied (and sometimes "my" 'powers that be' even banned vendors (!)) ... you can more than often still buy that garbage on RenderHub. I am not making this up. 

@ShelLuser So, you test for Renderotica? Sounds amusing. I shop there, too. And you say the 'rotica rejects land on renderhub? I believe that. I would add, despite all that, there are some reputable vendors and freebie donors who also distribute on renderhub. But it's definitely buyer beware! 

gohanf22 posted at 8:35 AM Thu, 24 July 2025 - #4498050

DarkElegance posted at 11:23 AM Thu, 10 July 2025 - #4497715

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I am sorry. No. Piracy is NOT the answer. Why? 
Its not "Daz" taking the hit. They have their backsides covered. Its the artists. 
The artists that are just like you and me and everyone...trying to earn a penny for our hard work. 
Dont take that away from them, because companies like Daz are stealing from them already.

instead, urge artists to start selling on other sites or their own sites! Urge artists to sell directly to buyers!
Support artists...dont support companies already stealing from them.

Renderhub is a much better site to start selling on.  But many PAs won't do it.  It is not my fault they won't listen.  Maybe when they start losing money selling on DAZ alone, it will wake them up that DAZ is not benefiting them as a whole.

And these PAs need to know one good thing they have over DAZ:  DAZ NEEDS THEM to succeed.  Without them, they are toast.  Majority of revenue comes from them.  Not these base models.  PA created content is where much of their money comes from, and if they wish to keep their artists happy, then they better start giving them MORE of the money.

Renderhub doesn't take anything and that is why many are now selling on that site.

I am not trying to endorse it, Dark.  I am just trying to state the situation that this INDUSTRY or industries as a whole is in.  People are SICK of Degeneracy, Indoctrination, Propaganda, you name it being put into Movies, TV Shows, Video Games, you name it.  We are sick of the PANDERING of mental illness and yes it is a MENTAL ILLNESS!

I don't care what anyone on this forum says otherwise cause they are just talking through their brainwashing.   It is a PROVEN FACT!

I agree, Daz needs those artists...more than those artists need DAZ. It is a matter of getting them to realize that or rather, act on it.
If they were to move to direct sales, their sales would increase...not decrease. 
Their profits would increase. 
Never mind, the same stuff is now getting released...over and over. 
We all know “naked” sells. But when it starts to look all the same. Just a different colour...it gets stale. 
"Bathing suits", "Wet skin", "LIE makeup", "Underwear that looks like the last 6 sets released", rinse and repeat. 

The thing I have liked about renderhub is diversity of items(military, sci-fi, etc) and the fact their support team actually responds!
They will engage with someone! Which is so refreshing.
Unlike some places that flat out ignore anyone that remotely complains(validly) about their site. (Please see example in this very thread)
As to hinky items, I havent purchased anything as yet, that has been hinky(from renderhub). And the artists have been fast to reply to any questions that I have had. 
Some of the artists sell at Renderhub and here as a matter of fact. 
Now hinky stuff? Well as I now have several support tickets open in Daz and no replies. Or little feed back, no solutions and excuses why some products havent been working since people started to report the issue in 2018! I think Hinky covers it. They even admit the particular product didnt work "out of the box". Admitted that the files didnt work as they should. Did they remove the item and fix it? NOPE!
So, hinky…seems to be in more than one direction. 
(and still no fix to the subscription issue. But hey! daz is the golden child that no one can complain about!)

What is sad, really, is some amazing artists are there. Luthbel comes to mind, Aeon Soul another. Those are the artists that have made it difficult to just go "NOPE" to daz. Artists whose quality is amazing. And worth every penny they cost. 
If those artist ever walked away from daz and made their stuff direct sell...I have a feeling Daz would be in serious trouble.

I believe top vendors stay at Daz because they're happy at Daz. Some also offer products on other sites. Those PAs who become unhappy leave, and I've no idea how it goes for them after that.

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

Their ability to delete any constructive feedback (positive or negative) is not helping too. Entire threads questioning licensings get deleted, comments debating their bussiness practices or flaws in a product too, with the users even facing permanent blocks.

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

And you have heard these things from one or more top vendors? 'Cause I don't really think anybody is giving Powerage, Zeddicuss, Midnight_Stories or their like any grief. And I don't think Stonemason, Rawart, Luthbel, Linday, Oso, Josh Crockett, etc are planning to leave any time soon. Mada has come right out on the forum to say Daz gives her extra opportunities to make money. So, sure, you could be right, but prove it!

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

Their ability to delete any constructive feedback (positive or negative) is not helping too. Entire threads questioning licensings get deleted, comments debating their bussiness practices or flaws in a product too, with the users even facing permanent blocks.

Sure, their sometimes overzealous and heavy-handed moderation is well known and often discussed. But it's their site, their ToS, etc. And I tell you from experience, you can push pretty far and they give plenty of warning before you go so far over the edge that you get banned. If you reach the limit, they'll warn you. You can take their obvious warning and adjust yourself so you get to stay (has happened to me - I usually choose to take a longish cooling-off break after anything like that happens -There or here) or keep pushing and let the bad things happen. Either way, I don't think a bad end is inevitable. It's sort of a choice.

Torquinox posted at 5:57 AM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498080

@ShelLuser So, you test for Renderotica? Sounds amusing. I shop there, too. And you say the 'rotica rejects land on renderhub? I believe that. I would add, despite all that, there are some reputable vendors and freebie donors who also distribute on renderhub. But it's definitely buyer beware! 

Guilty as charged ;)   As soon as I discovered that there was more available than just Daz packages and also discovered the ease of the contents library pane I started looking into other websites, and now most of my stuff is bought from 3rd parties these days. And what I always found ironic was even though the emphasis is heavy on the "naughty stuff" there's also plenty more available.

Torquinox posted at 5:58 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498125

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

And you have heard these things from one or more top vendors? 'Cause I don't really think anybody is giving Powerage, Zeddicuss, Midnight_Stories or their like any grief. And I don't think Stonemason, Rawart, Luthbel, Linday, Oso, Josh Crockett, etc are planning to leave any time soon. Mada has come right out on the forum to say Daz gives her extra opportunities to make money. So, sure, you could be right, but prove it!

Now, an important disclaimer is in effect: I don't really bother myself with "politics" and also don't keep up with every shift in power. However... @Putitadelamierda2 is fully on the mark here, I've also heard stories told by vendors and mentioned by "my" staff; vendors who moved away from Daz (to "us" amongst other markets (probably Renderosity too!)) and they definitely mentioned that one of the most compelling reasons to move was not being allowed to sell elsewhere other than Daz.

I don't know how far and deep this actually goes (whether this is also set up in contracts and what not) but if you hear this mentioned from multiple vendors... then something stinks (IMO).

Do note that I don't want to make it sound as if vendors constantly walk away or stuff like that, I don't know. But I do share Putita's opinion, based on what I've heard.