My posts on Daz forums seldom go through lately, despite being honest and not inflammatory. But the mods really seem to be oversensitive these days. So I need to vent here... I've been using Daz about 10 years.

The way I see it and hear it, many of the long time users are saying: we all have enough content already, we are tired of rebuying the same stuff over and over with diminishing returns. We are sticking with G8/G8.1 as there is no real advantage to G9 (unless of course you cater to niche Futa or Transgender porn which I understand is very profitable, so if that's your thing more power to you, not judging you, we all need to make money). But for everyone else G9 sucks. It is impossible to make good looking men or women, mostly due to chest area problems, but also the joints suck, I have struggled with it for so long, I finally gave up and went back to G8F G8M where I can make any female or male that I envision in my head. I wasted way too much money on G9 and should have returned it all, but didn’t. I struggled for quite a few months, trying to give G9 a good go, buying the necessary tools, morphs and add-ons, all for naught.

And now with subscription based 2-tier Daz Studio (Premier or Free) that is also making people hesitant to buy-in, since the 2 tier system could at any time switch to a 1-tier Premier only system with the Free tier no longer upgraded, especially regarding all the plug-ins we all count on, many of whom have PAs who have moved on or in some cases passed away, RIP.

So if that happens and the majority long time users are stuck with Daz Studio 4.x and G8 in order to use all our existing plug-ins and scripts, then there will be no market for a Genesis 10. There will not be enough new money coming in to support it. Especially with the way AI is advancing. And also the newer user base seems to be coming mostly from overseas from China and India. That could be a good thing, since they are large markets BUT there is so much pirating of Daz assets now with these overseas sites, and no respect of copyrights at all. So many sites exist now where all the content is free, and it is not taken down EVER. In the past I would see these sites get pulled, but now they flagrantly stay up indefinitely. If I was a PA I would be sick of that and probably quit. Within days of new release, new content finds its way onto those pirate sites, I can only assume because it is out of the jurisdiction of any US authorities or maybe it is just not big enough to go after. Like who even goes after that? Interpol? I don’t know.

On top of all that is now the lack of incentive for artists to post their work on the major social media sites due AI using your content for AI training and remixing into their own content.  Why bother uploading if the algorithms will steal you content, then effectively shadowban your account, then remix the content and profit from it on promoted accounts? That is already happening, so a lot of artists are leaving social media. So then who is left? Strictly those of us who are poor, masochistic artists who simply want to create for the sake of creating, something drives us to create, but we will just use our old software and old assets until we croak. The future is indeed grim for Daz Studio.

Some countries have no concept of copyright or IP. Everybody copies and pirates everything and it's fine.

Just to note, there is only one version of Daz Studio - Premier is additional features and plug-ins, nothing has been removed from the free base application and new stuff has been added since the start of Premier.

RHaseltine posted at 2:44 PM Sun, 4 May 2025 - #4495683

Just to note, there is only one version of Daz Studio - Premier is additional features and plug-ins, nothing has been removed from the free base application and new stuff has been added since the start of Premier.

Also missed by point. Do they actually pay you to cheerlead here Richard? 

GeorgeWeber posted at 7:37 AM Sun, 4 May 2025 - #2992901

My posts on Daz forums seldom go through lately, despite being honest and not inflammatory. But the mods really seem to be oversensitive these days. So I need to vent here... I've been using Daz about 10 years.

The way I see it and hear it, many of the long time users are saying: we all have enough content already, we are tired of rebuying the same stuff over and over with diminishing returns. We are sticking with G8/G8.1 as there is no real advantage to G9 (unless of course you cater to niche Futa or Transgender porn which I understand is very profitable, so if that's your thing more power to you, not judging you, we all need to make money). But for everyone else G9 sucks. It is impossible to make good looking men or women, mostly due to chest area problems, but also the joints suck, I have struggled with it for so long, I finally gave up and went back to G8F G8M where I can make any female or male that I envision in my head. I wasted way too much money on G9 and should have returned it all, but didn’t. I struggled for quite a few months, trying to give G9 a good go, buying the necessary tools, morphs and add-ons, all for naught.

And now with subscription based 2-tier Daz Studio (Premier or Free) that is also making people hesitant to buy-in, since the 2 tier system could at any time switch to a 1-tier Premier only system with the Free tier no longer upgraded, especially regarding all the plug-ins we all count on, many of whom have PAs who have moved on or in some cases passed away, RIP.

So if that happens and the majority long time users are stuck with Daz Studio 4.x and G8 in order to use all our existing plug-ins and scripts, then there will be no market for a Genesis 10. There will not be enough new money coming in to support it. Especially with the way AI is advancing. And also the newer user base seems to be coming mostly from overseas from China and India. That could be a good thing, since they are large markets BUT there is so much pirating of Daz assets now with these overseas sites, and no respect of copyrights at all. So many sites exist now where all the content is free, and it is not taken down EVER. In the past I would see these sites get pulled, but now they flagrantly stay up indefinitely. If I was a PA I would be sick of that and probably quit. Within days of new release, new content finds its way onto those pirate sites, I can only assume because it is out of the jurisdiction of any US authorities or maybe it is just not big enough to go after. Like who even goes after that? Interpol? I don’t know.

On top of all that is now the lack of incentive for artists to post their work on the major social media sites due AI using your content for AI training and remixing into their own content.  Why bother uploading if the algorithms will steal you content, then effectively shadowban your account, then remix the content and profit from it on promoted accounts? That is already happening, so a lot of artists are leaving social media. So then who is left? Strictly those of us who are poor, masochistic artists who simply want to create for the sake of creating, something drives us to create, but we will just use our old software and old assets until we croak. The future is indeed grim for Daz Studio.

THIS person gets it.  Thank you.

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

Piracy is not only taking money from Daz or whatever company. It's also taking money from the people who made the stuff. If everybody takes pirate copies, there won't be any money for the stores or the creators and that will be the end of it.

Every store takes a cut, gotta pay the bills. The creators get the rest. I got a friend who published pdfs. I helped him, too. Every product he ever published showed up on a pirate site within 24 hours. Same is true for Daz products, as Richard knows too well. There's no DMCA takedown notice or other recourse for stuff that ends up on pirate sites in countries with no copyright or IP enforcement. My friend and I talked about it a lot! You can't prevent items from turning up on the pirate sites, and can't get them taken down. So what kind of people are downloading the stuff? Mostly people who were never going to buy the stuff anyway. These people are never going to be customers.

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I'm sorry Gohan. I do not agree with a word of this. I know what goes into making a product, any product. To lose income to piracy in the way you describe is hurtful to the creators of the work, to the company, and ultimately to the community. The perception that a company is greedy boils down to the company exists to make money. Well, companies exist to make money. Companies that don't make money die - Normal companies, not the venture-capital-funded Silicon Valley wonder companies. Yet, even some of those fail. So, piracy as you describe hurts creative people as well as bean counters. Meanwhile, the pirate sites often profit from their piracy. 

I look at the Daz site and I know from experience that there are times I can get thousands of dollars worth of stuff for 95-98% off. Well, it's a pretty good deal. No, it's not the newest stuff. It's stuff I want to play around with. So, it's good! I don't need to be a pirate. I need to be a little patient and ready to spend a bit when the stars align. And now, I really just need to render more. Truth!

Just a reminder:

Renderosity has a zero-tolerance policy for software piracy. That includes offering pirated software, asking for it as well as encouraging others to do it.

Bannable on the first offense.

---

Jeff

Renderosity Senior Moderator

Hablo español

Ich spreche Deutsch

Je parle français

Mi parolas Esperanton. Ĉu vi?

lol "I love using this thing, I think it fosters degeneracy and immorality, I think it's okay to steal it because I like having it without paying for it, I deserve to have it and you don't deserve my money for it, I'm a good person"

e: WOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My Freebies

I feel like Genesis 9 is a move to "quiet quit" male characters. 

I understand the theory behind making a "unisex" mesh for content creators, but why does the chest need to have a denser mesh with sculpted, full breasts in order to do that?  What male or unisex clothes needs to cup the breasts? Most men and male identifying people don't wear bras or bikini tops. And there are very few male characters that I feel have successfully dialed awat the breasts without leaving a clear impression of under & between breast cleavage. To me, it's like the old Vittorio morph for Victoria 4 - a compromised male shape made from a female figure. 

I actually don't understand the theory ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

do I think it's going to ~make daz go out of business~? lmao no

My Freebies

True, there's probably enough people who want to put white women in lingerie to keep the lights on. 

When I used to make a lot of stuff,  people liked it,  people bought it,  and there was an incentive to make more stuff.

Lately,  whether I  make stuff or not,  there are less customers buying,   and there is only a tiny fraction of sales compared to years past.  Again, Less incentive to make stuff.

There was a time,  when having a healthy deep catalogue of older products was going to keep a healthy trickle to balance everything out. That's gone too.  we get half of that 90-95% off,  its literally pennies per sale. Customers win,  by getting quality products.  Daz usually gets a new release sale as an incentive to trigger the extreme discount,  so they dont lose.   PAs though,  they absolutely lose.

There is no incentive to make stuff anymore.  So who looses?  If you do the math,  it is fairly obvious.

As GeorgeWeber says,  most of us already have a lifetimes worth of content in our libraries that we can put to good use for a long while.  So we might as well start rendering something.  There is still some joy in that. 

As for  those unethical criminal pirates that blatter nonsensical justification for their bad behaviour,  there are no words,  it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

First bastion, you are not the first person I’ve heard say some of those things. You have added more depth. It is a problem.

Well said FirstBastion.

And sorry to hear the reality, but it's always been that way unfortunately. In the '80's, I used to work for an internationally distributed manufacturer of photo processing equipment, tech support & R&D. Tried to warn them of what was coming on the digital front back in 1986.

They're no longer in existence.

But as you mention (or paraphrasing) GeorgeWeber, simply digging into what you have in the toybox and trying some different combinations should keep ya busy for quite awhile.

That & finding things you bought & forgot you had. <sigh>

But as a recent example, & using one of FirstBastion products in fact:

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2992565/using-older-assets-with-new

I will say, the few times I've tried selling content it was super disconcerting and shitty to see it immediately posted on the piracy sites. Really struck a blow against ~The Man~ there dudes lol

My Freebies

FirstBastion posted at 6:41 PM Wed, 7 May 2025 - #4495826

When I used to make a lot of stuff,  people liked it,  people bought it,  and there was an incentive to make more stuff.

Lately,  whether I  make stuff or not,  there are less customers buying,   and there is only a tiny fraction of sales compared to years past.  Again, Less incentive to make stuff.

There was a time,  when having a healthy deep catalogue of older products was going to keep a healthy trickle to balance everything out. That's gone too.  we get half of that 90-95% off,  its literally pennies per sale. Customers win,  by getting quality products.  Daz usually gets a new release sale as an incentive to trigger the extreme discount,  so they dont lose.   PAs though,  they absolutely lose.

There is no incentive to make stuff anymore.  So who looses?  If you do the math,  it is fairly obvious.

As GeorgeWeber says,  most of us already have a lifetimes worth of content in our libraries that we can put to good use for a long while.  So we might as well start rendering something.  There is still some joy in that. 

As for  those unethical criminal pirates that blatter nonsensical justification for their bad behaviour,  there are no words,  it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

This. I've stopped making content after the barrage of comments that even 5 dollars was too much to pay. And seeing brand new products of mine selling for as low as 42 cents. Yes. 42 cents.

And yes, the content would end up on piracy sites within a day.

So prices were lower, and sales were lower. What incentive is there to continue making content, especially when potential buyers don't appreciate it?

I've never pirated 3d content and I wouldn't. I've been a customer here and at DAZ3D for 22 years. I have too much respect for the technical skills one has to develop to make things, even if I don't particularly like the offering. I don't have any respect for people who aren't willing to compensate the artists who make this an enjoyable hobby.

My own opinion is the feedback loop of the general marketplace has led to where we are today. 

For many years, DAZ has offered several new items most days of the week, and they are always discounted. As all the software has improved, and the figures have gotten more complex, I speculate it takes longer to produce quality content. I think the "new items every day, always on sale" expectation has conditioned customers to both underestimate the work it takes to make content and undervalue the final product. It also feeds into FOMO. 

For vendors, I think that customer expectation, combined with the nature of the marketplace, makes it really hard to get a return on their time and investment. If it doesn't sell well in the first couple of days, it's probably not going to sell later. So for the PAs that want to make money, it's smart to focus on what's going to give them the best ROI. if they want to indulge their artist side more and make something from a purely creative endeavor, they likely have to accept they won't make a profit off it - which is something any artist has to deal with. 

I think all that combined leads to more of the same items of the same genres, sometimes with improvements, other times not. And dinosaurs like me who aren't keen on what they are seeing and haven't learned to model their own stuff yet either drift off to other interests or keep using all their old content, which also means we aren't supporting the market. 

But this is a financial transaction, and I'm not supporting a market that isn't supporting me and interests. It's not a charity. I used to buy things made for male characters that I didn't really have a use for to show my support, but when the quality is declining and tapering off, I can see that it didn't really do anything but give the message "I'll accept whatever you make." 

DeeceyArt posted at 7:16 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495852

This. I've stopped making content after the barrage of comments that even 5 dollars was too much to pay. And seeing brand new products of mine selling for as low as 42 cents. Yes. 42 cents.

And yes, the content would end up on piracy sites within a day.

So prices were lower, and sales were lower. What incentive is there to continue making content, especially when potential buyers don't appreciate it?

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

My Freebies

pjz99 posted at 10:34 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495860

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

No, the Daz site. It happens as a result of insane stacking and tokens taken together, sometimes with a coupon. I usually only get the best deals on DO items - stuff Daz store bought from the vendors. That or when it's decade-old stuff for M4/V4 and the like. That Deceey reports it happens on new PA stuff is alarming. FWIW, it seems starting prices and average prices are both on the rise there, but that does not account for the effect of stacking, tokens, etc.

Prices SHOULD go up, aside from raw cost of living increases, nobody has the slightest idea how much work goes into making a highly polished piece of content, and then there's the enormous set up cost of hardware and tools and prerequisite content.

My Freebies

pjz99 posted at 10:34 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495860

DeeceyArt posted at 7:16 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495852

This. I've stopped making content after the barrage of comments that even 5 dollars was too much to pay. And seeing brand new products of mine selling for as low as 42 cents. Yes. 42 cents.

And yes, the content would end up on piracy sites within a day.

So prices were lower, and sales were lower. What incentive is there to continue making content, especially when potential buyers don't appreciate it?

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

Nope, with all the sales and stackable deals at Daz, I saw things selling for under a buck by the time all the discounts and coupons and shares were taken out. It was very discouraging. Especially when there was thread after thread of people complaining that even five dollars was too much to pay for any content.

To that I would say to those that set that limit, think about the time involved in creating content. A set of clothing rigged with morphs. A detailed prop set like Stonemason makes. How long do you think that will take to create something that meets DAZ standards for release?  I have to wonder how many other PAs are so discouraged and don't make content anymore. 8-(

It's not delightful in any dimension, no. If customer count is declining (and that's likely) prices likely have to go up to make ends meet. And yet, that may also drive customers away because of previous practices. And there is the "full up" factor. With thousands of items in the library, how much more do people in that situation need? And you, pjz99, don't even have a store - You're making freebies - They're pretty good, too! I don't have a conclusion except that I myself end up buying less stuff. And I'm also drowning in freebies.

Torquinox posted at 10:55 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495861

pjz99 posted at 10:34 AM Thu, 8 May 2025 - #4495860

lmao was that "on sale for 42 cents" thing here? without your choice to do it? what the absolute hell, who thinks that's a good arrangement for anyone?

No, the Daz site. It happens as a result of insane stacking and tokens taken together, sometimes with a coupon. I usually only get the best deals on DO items - stuff Daz store bought from the vendors. That or when it's decade-old stuff for M4/V4 and the like. That Deceey reports it happens on new PA stuff is alarming. FWIW, it seems starting prices and average prices are both on the rise there, but that does not account for the effect of stacking, tokens, etc.

Not often but I remember a couple or three of them did sneak by.  I tried to look back but the reports seem to have changed a bit and I'm not sure how to get the combination that shows the applied discounts.

imo "what you are actually going to get paid for X" should be on the default report but that's just me

My Freebies

It varies, depending on whatever discounts were applied to the order.  I did find one product that sold for a 90-95 discount on the first day of release, so yeah they did sneak through now and then depending on how those discounts and stuff were stacked. Others of the same product sold at about 70-75% discount on the first day. 

Things may have changed since then. I hope so. Hoping that eventually things settle out because I do enjoy making content ... but it would be nice to feel appreciated. 8-)

FirstBastion posted at 6:41 PM Wed, 7 May 2025 - #4495826

When I used to make a lot of stuff,  people liked it,  people bought it,  and there was an incentive to make more stuff.

Lately,  whether I  make stuff or not,  there are less customers buying,   and there is only a tiny fraction of sales compared to years past.  Again, Less incentive to make stuff.

There was a time,  when having a healthy deep catalogue of older products was going to keep a healthy trickle to balance everything out. That's gone too.  we get half of that 90-95% off,  its literally pennies per sale. Customers win,  by getting quality products.  Daz usually gets a new release sale as an incentive to trigger the extreme discount,  so they dont lose.   PAs though,  they absolutely lose.

There is no incentive to make stuff anymore.  So who looses?  If you do the math,  it is fairly obvious.

As GeorgeWeber says,  most of us already have a lifetimes worth of content in our libraries that we can put to good use for a long while.  So we might as well start rendering something.  There is still some joy in that. 

As for  those unethical criminal pirates that blatter nonsensical justification for their bad behaviour,  there are no words,  it would fall on deaf ears anyway.

This is sad to hear, but thank you for your input FirstBastion and confirmation of what I have heard from others. I have loved your stuff at Daz and bought so many of your products there over the years, they are so great for kit-bashing and fast to render, yet high quality environments.  the fact that this downturn in 3D is effecting you as well, says a lot about the state of things.

And also thanks to those Freebie creators like pjz99 who just keep plugging away and giving to us freely, its truly appreciated.  Thank you!

And DeeceyArt, Daz really screwed things up with the new token thing, I think they really underestimated how everything would work together and stack and now they seem to be caught in a bind of how do they dial it back. There was a time when 75-85 percent off was considered great, an instant buy.  but now the token thing has made it so 95% off is almost the new norm. In fact the 70% off Fast Grabs, which were once a daily staple that I would check everyday, I doubt anyone even looks at them anymore, they have been made obsolete. Once a new norm is created, that is what the buyers hold out on. Its an ugly mess.  When I did one month of Prime during this past March Madness sale, I remember my overall avg discount for everything was 94-95% off due to the tokens. It almost felt like stealing. I have no idea if changes have been made since then, I haven't bought anything since then. But it was obvious to me this is not sustainable for creators. It felt like a going out of business sale where they are just discounting things so much just to get the last bit of juice out of buyers and not caring about the PAs. I hope that is not the case. 

I don't imagine store credit discounted at 30% or more will help the bottom line of any PA, either. It does, of course, benefit Daz store as they take the money on account. It multiplies purchase power for the customer, but necessarily discounts money paid to eligible recipients.

Torquinox posted at 9:04 AM Sat, 10 May 2025 - #4495945

I don't imagine store credit discounted at 30% or more will help the bottom line of any PA, either. It does, of course, benefit Daz store as they take the money on account. It multiplies purchase power for the customer, but necessarily discounts money paid to eligible recipients.

As far as  I know the PAs get the value of any GC used, the discount comes out of Daz' cut.

Thank you for the clarification, Richard! That is good to know.

I'm not paying for a Pro version of DAZ Studio when the people running DAZ already screwed its customers over in the past on that exact same issue, I'm not paying for content and features that I lose if I stop subscribing, and I'm not supporting a subscription that requires periodic call-ins to DAZ's servers. 

Up until the recent changes, I used to have a $100+-a-week habit at DAZ, but I haven't bought a thing from them since then, meaning that in the last five months or so, DAZ and its vendors have lost out on at least $2.5K-to-$3K or so from just me alone. I keep reading posts from other users saying that they're scaling back on their purchases or opting out entirely for these exact same reasons, I don't see anyone claiming to have increased their purchases to make up for the lost revenue, and I seriously doubt that DAZ is attracting enough new customers to make up for those of us who've dropped out. 

I fully expect to see Tafi try to sell off DAZ in an attempt to recoup something from the wreckage, or failing that, to shut it down entirely to stop the bleeding.

Just my two cents…

I’m frequently surprised by how reasonable product prices are, here, at DAZ, RenderHub, wherever.

if it passes the “could I do it myself for anything close to what they’re asking?” test, it’s a good deal.

if it passes the test and I can’t afford it, I do what others here have wisely suggested:  I have fun with what I already have.

Sticking It to THE MAN!!!  God, I feel like I do that when I download freebies here without thanking the creators, and I feel awful about it!

Some people give so much it seems too damn hard to write a thoughtful “thanks” for EVERY contribution!

zoro_d pjz99 richardandtracy spacebones etc etc etc etc etc

THANK YOU!!!  Please keep it up!!!  I love your work, and I’m sorry I haven’t always told you this!!!

btw…I’d like to give something back.  Is there a way to share a figure’s MAT zones without giving away the geometry?

pjz99 inspired me to learn more about Geoshells, and I ran with it!

I’ve come up with a way to make a nice body stocking with…exposure…that someone might like.

Yeah, whatever, I’m a perv.  It also looks like something a woman could actually climb inside and physically put on, so THERE!

GeorgeWeber posted at 3:08 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495692

RHaseltine posted at 2:44 PM Sun, 4 May 2025 - #4495683

Just to note, there is only one version of Daz Studio - Premier is additional features and plug-ins, nothing has been removed from the free base application and new stuff has been added since the start of Premier.

Also missed by point. Do they actually pay you to cheerlead here Richard? 

Do I touch this comment? Do I dare? 

YES! I DO!

Listen "richard" we all get it. You work for them. You are obligated to say they are the gods gift to 3d…even when it is painfully clear…they are scamming people. Ignoring support tickets(I have very hard proof of that). You come running and stand defending them…even in the face of irrefutable issues. 
There is a point, I have to wonder why on earth are you doing it?
You have defended the fact of them ripping people off over the “subscription” issue. Even trying to “explain” how we didn't get ripped off. 
You defend their lack of support. I have emails LAST WEEK…that are “replying” to support tickets from…(no joke) 2023! 
You defend them blatantly censoring people (and support it).
When, or rather, where…is the line?

What other business/company would have support tickets being answered YEARS later? And it be “acceptable”?
You know Daz is running roughshod over loyal, longstanding customers…never mind new ones that do not know the history.

So when….Do you actually hold a hand up and go "actually, you guys may have a point"?


As for the history?
It will stay fairly usable. They will make it harder and harder for “original” content, though(lets be fair they are ripping off almost every franchise and artists now). They will leech on to other programs to extend their “life”. 
But I have one thing to say to those wondering….
UNREAL ENGINE.
Oh, well, two things...

METAHUMAN!

And here is the best word of all…"FREE".

Daz continues to get away with this behaviour…because CUSTOMERS CONTINUE TO ALLOW IT.
That is the hard, cold, brutal truth of it.

Some vendors are ONLY at daz, and we know, to get their items, we have to go to daz. 
But that is quickly losing its pull....

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I am sorry. No. Piracy is NOT the answer. Why? 
Its not "Daz" taking the hit. They have their backsides covered. Its the artists. 
The artists that are just like you and me and everyone...trying to earn a penny for our hard work. 
Dont take that away from them, because companies like Daz are stealing from them already.

instead, urge artists to start selling on other sites or their own sites! Urge artists to sell directly to buyers!
Support artists...dont support companies already stealing from them.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

pjz99 posted at 11:21 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495759

lol "I love using this thing, I think it fosters degeneracy and immorality, I think it's okay to steal it because I like having it without paying for it, I deserve to have it and you don't deserve my money for it, I'm a good person"

e: WOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No no no, that is not woke. That is entitled. Different things.

There is nothing "woke" about supporting stealing from hard working artists already getting ripped off by a company taking their profits.
There is nothing "woke" about hurting artists just trying to earn a living.
That is not woke...that is entitled. 

Big difference.  

And I cant stress it enough...piracy doesnt hurt the "big companies" it hurts the artists. The companies will have insurances to cover loss. Most artists dont. They are already busting their backsides for the pennies companies like Daz give them.
Theft...is not the answer. 

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Late reaction, I know the thread is dated (!) but still wanted to comment.

I think there's more to this story than just Daz Studio alone, this goes way deeper.

First the Daz3d company...  in my opinion they don't really innovate, they're simply milking the market. That's not necessarily a bad thing mind you, but... it also results in consumers not getting the quality that they could have.  When I got into Daz Studio (now an easy 10 or so years ago) I went all out: also bought into Hexagon & Bryce 7. So now look where those two projects are at?  Abandoned is what. Sure, there's a beta version of Hexagon out there but at this time these two software environments are honestly a bit of a joke; - with all due respect -.

Hexagon is fun, but Blender is a heck of a lot better (note: I don't even like Blender myself!).  Bryce 7 then...  the funny thing is that last weekend I began studying options for terrain building because I'm getting tired of having to wonder what scenery I'll be using for my render and Bryce is becoming more and more frustrating to use. Lo and behold: I discovered software like TerraGen, Gaea and then discovered that you can now also download E-On's Vue and PlantFactory for free!  Fun fact about TerraGen (and Gaea): they also provide free to use ("community") versions (I am planning to grab licenses though), and those free versions easily blow Bryce out of the water. Well.. Bryce and that new UltraScenery 2 plugin.

One could argue that the Daz3D company is somewhat getting desperate for revenue. I base this opinion on that awful NFT push, but also considering that they're abandoning projects like Hexagon and Bryce, trying to reduce overhead (= my opinion!) by going back to a uniform Genesis base model and of course: they're also reducing features in Daz Studio itself. Latest development is that support for 3Delight is going to get removed.

... speaking of which: the 3Delight engine itself has been in continuous development, latest release is from last year. But Daz3d couldn't be bothered to keep up it seems.

Now... it may sound like I'm heavily criticizing the Daz3d company, and in a way I do (that NFT nonsense was too close to a legalized scam in my opinion), but this brings us to another issue... I can't help but wonder if the whole CGI market isn't in a bit of decline?

The Bentley Systems company took over E-On (I'm assuming for their expertise), and then they just started giving away Vue and PlantFactory and tons of assets. ...including the right to use this for commercial purposes. And do not underestimate this like I did: I began working with Vue to see what it's all about I'd say it's the holy grail for any type of Daz Studio user!  There may not be a direct bridge, but it's easy to export meshes and generate HDR domes to complement all that.

TerraGen and Gaea are world / terrain builders which have also been used in high end movie productions. And yet simple hobbyists like myself are allowed to pick up a free version (sometimes even for commercial purposes), and better yet: their licenses are IMO also very much affordable at $199 (Gaea even has an Indie license that goes for $99).

My point you wonder?  When I like something I try to learn as much about it as I can, and I know for a fact that both TerraGen and Gaea used to sell for much more (not that I'm complaining ;)).

Then another issue: the downfall of the ShareCG website?

If you ask me then the whole market is having issues.

Of course.. just my 2 cents.

That is mostly speculation built on speculation, but to address one more substantial point:

> ... speaking of which: the 3Delight engine itself has been in continuous development, latest release is from last year. But Daz3d couldn't be bothered to keep up it seems.

Any update beyond the version of 3Delight in DS would have stopped supporting RSL shaders, meaning every material would need updating and every sahder set would need rewriting. The change would have been as great as the change to Iray For usability purposes there wasn't an update for 3Delight and that is why Daz didn't add new versions.

I also have to point out that Daz did in fact release several new versions of both Bryce and Carrara, and has of course added many new features to Daz Studio (without needing to update the version number each time, one of the benefits of a free application).

RHaseltine posted at 2:06 PM Wed, 23 July 2025 - #4498044

That is mostly speculation built on speculation, but to address one more substantial point:

With all due respect, but it's kinda easy to brush something off without providing any further argumentation. It's simply a matter of a fact that companies don't start pushing subscription models for no specific reason, and that reason is always based on revenue; or needs thereof. And when looking at the market as-is then there's quite a bit of competition going on, which means that markets can't "just" increase their prices without risking the loss of potential customers.

> ... speaking of which: the 3Delight engine itself has been in continuous development, latest release is from last year. But Daz3d couldn't be bothered to keep up it seems.

Any update beyond the version of 3Delight in DS would have stopped supporting RSL shaders, meaning every material would need updating and every sahder set would need rewriting.

I'm aware, NSI vs. RSL.  While I know (much!) better than to "just" question your opinion I still can't help having some doubts when it comes to the actual impact of such a conversion. I base that opinion on both my own experiences (albeit small!) with the current version of the 3Delight NSI render engine, but also on my many experimentations with using assets that were fully build for one engine (RSL or MDL) and then use those with the other. These experimentations obviously involved more software other than Daz Studio, but still...  it doesn't take away the fact that in many cases (definitely not all of them!) the results were actually pretty good all things considered.

Now, this may be a bit of an unfair comment on my end (sorry!) but wouldn't it also be fair to say that the involved costs were also a major factor?

I also have to point out that Daz did in fact release several new versions of both Bryce and Carrara, and has of course added many new features to Daz Studio (without needing to update the version number each time, one of the benefits of a free application).

Absolutely true.. but.. also easily ignored others. There's still a working bridge for Daz Studio to send assets into Bryce 7, but doing it the other way around (= from Bryce to DS) hasn't worked for many years.

Anyway, one way or the other: thanks for your comment, I very much appreciate it. Seriously, a bit off topic perhaps but I never stopped valuing your input and/or comments. I still highly admire your devotion and your willingness to help out others. My respect for you never changed.

DarkElegance posted at 11:23 AM Thu, 10 July 2025 - #4497715

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I am sorry. No. Piracy is NOT the answer. Why? 
Its not "Daz" taking the hit. They have their backsides covered. Its the artists. 
The artists that are just like you and me and everyone...trying to earn a penny for our hard work. 
Dont take that away from them, because companies like Daz are stealing from them already.

instead, urge artists to start selling on other sites or their own sites! Urge artists to sell directly to buyers!
Support artists...dont support companies already stealing from them.

Renderhub is a much better site to start selling on.  But many PAs won't do it.  It is not my fault they won't listen.  Maybe when they start losing money selling on DAZ alone, it will wake them up that DAZ is not benefiting them as a whole.

And these PAs need to know one good thing they have over DAZ:  DAZ NEEDS THEM to succeed.  Without them, they are toast.  Majority of revenue comes from them.  Not these base models.  PA created content is where much of their money comes from, and if they wish to keep their artists happy, then they better start giving them MORE of the money.

Renderhub doesn't take anything and that is why many are now selling on that site.

I am not trying to endorse it, Dark.  I am just trying to state the situation that this INDUSTRY or industries as a whole is in.  People are SICK of Degeneracy, Indoctrination, Propaganda, you name it being put into Movies, TV Shows, Video Games, you name it.  We are sick of the PANDERING of mental illness and yes it is a MENTAL ILLNESS!

I don't care what anyone on this forum says otherwise cause they are just talking through their brainwashing.   It is a PROVEN FACT!

I don't especially trust renderhub. Some of the stuff I've got from there is set up strangely, missing obvious things like the 90px icons that show up in the item queue in DS, their prices are higher, and their free section is becoming sort of a cesspool of crap. Even before CGShare died, they had more than their fair share of game rips and editorial licensed stuff. It all makes me hesitant to shop there. I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Also, a long-time Daz PA told me a while ago how the money situation is for them. They described Rendo here as hobby money and Daz as a place that allows them to earn a living, own a house, a car, etc. Other PAs seem just as loyal and committed to selling on Daz site.

I know some current and former PAs are not as rosy about selling on Daz site. Even so, I have not heard any tales of folks earning their fortunes on renderhub. Not saying it's not happened, just saying I've got no evidence to confirm or deny the notion. 

Just my 2 cents :

I'm working in the health system in France. Quite a long time ago, in the senveties, we had top notch public hospitals. 30 years ago, our governements decided this was not the way "businesses" are meant to work. A bunch of (costly) technocrats, were dedicated to a sort of lean management. Since then, the national health system is more and more costly, with lesser benefits to the inpatients. Money is evaporating somewhere !

Meanwhile they decided to stealthily privatise the health system. Except that a lot of big private practices are in fact owned by huge investments funds, KKR, and so on. And guess what ? Prices are going up, while quality is going down. 

I'm pretty sure Tafy is doing the same with Daz.

Return on investment is alas inversely proportionate to quality. It's unfortunately, the world we are living in and it's almost impossible to get out.

It's probably time to go back to manual arts, be it painting or drawing...

Have a nice day

Torquinox posted at 11:48 AM Thu, 24 July 2025 - #4498052

I don't especially trust renderhub. Some of the stuff I've got from there is set up strangely, missing obvious things like the 90px icons that show up in the item queue in DS, their prices are higher, and their free section is becoming sort of a cesspool of crap.

I don't trust Renderhub at all, and for very good reasons.

At the risk of pushing my luck a bit but I'm a product tester for "another ("naughty") 3D market site". No, not Daz3d (lol, sorry!), with 'naughty' I'm referring to the fact that the specialty of "our" house is erotica. Yah, the competition if you will but I have way too much respect for Renderosity to even want to mention names (I hate spam as much as anyone else).

Enough blabbering => my point being: I'm in a team of product testers, we get products on our plate, we test them best to our abilities and report back. Now, whatever you may think of "naughty (3D) websites": we do have our standards, high standards.

"We" (I only speak for myself but also refer to ... you know) ... so 'we' burned / denied several products because they were just utterly ridiculous. Morphs were all over the place (meaning: a head morph also changed the body), skin maps were blatant copies of other (sometimes Daz3d original) products (BIG no, no), teen figures (not gonna elaborate), and also the classic: it doesn't work. Aka: you're almost wondering if the vendor actually understands his own darn product because the paths to textures and the likes didn't add up, like, at all.

Fun fact: Most of those products which "we" denied (and sometimes "my" 'powers that be' even banned vendors (!)) ... you can more than often still buy that garbage on RenderHub. I am not making this up. 

@ShelLuser So, you test for Renderotica? Sounds amusing. I shop there, too. And you say the 'rotica rejects land on renderhub? I believe that. I would add, despite all that, there are some reputable vendors and freebie donors who also distribute on renderhub. But it's definitely buyer beware! 

gohanf22 posted at 8:35 AM Thu, 24 July 2025 - #4498050

DarkElegance posted at 11:23 AM Thu, 10 July 2025 - #4497715

gohanf22 posted at 7:51 AM Tue, 6 May 2025 - #4495748

RHaseltine posted at 2:04 PM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495721

gohanf22 posted at 9:35 AM Mon, 5 May 2025 - #4495710

EDIT: And reason why Pirating exists, it isn't cause people do it cause they wish to, it is cause they want to stick it to companies that are GREEDY.  DAZ being one of them.  DAZ is a greedy company and that is why DAZ assets are on Pirating sites.  I do support PAs on Renderhub cause Renderhub gives them 100% of the revenue, unlike DAZ does.  If people want to sell somewhere and get all of the revenue, you should start selling on Renderhub.

According to Renderhub's own

---

pages:

Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store

Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store

Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store

Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store

---

How exactly would you expect a site that didn't take a percentage to pay its operating costs, not to mention the costs of developing the applicastion in the case of daz and daz Studio 9and the license fees for things like Iray)? People pirate from greed, including the uploaders (who gt income from advertising on the file hosts, or from pushing premium subscriptions to the hosts with an affiliate scheme) - trying to dress it up as some kind of principled stance is absurd.

I'm not going to argue richard.  You know why people do it.  They do it to people that DON'T DESERVE the money.  Why do you think people pirate software and games? Cause they are tired of greedy companies and companies pushing woke, etc.

Pirating has become the modern day version of Robin Hood.  And companies saying it is ruining revenue is just upset they are not getting what they want cause they are the ones pushing this crap.

You don't see anyone complaining about pirating when they aren't pushing degeneracy or greed do you? Nope.  Only the ones pushing greed and woke are the ones complaining about piracy.

I rest my case.

I am sorry. No. Piracy is NOT the answer. Why? 
Its not "Daz" taking the hit. They have their backsides covered. Its the artists. 
The artists that are just like you and me and everyone...trying to earn a penny for our hard work. 
Dont take that away from them, because companies like Daz are stealing from them already.

instead, urge artists to start selling on other sites or their own sites! Urge artists to sell directly to buyers!
Support artists...dont support companies already stealing from them.

Renderhub is a much better site to start selling on.  But many PAs won't do it.  It is not my fault they won't listen.  Maybe when they start losing money selling on DAZ alone, it will wake them up that DAZ is not benefiting them as a whole.

And these PAs need to know one good thing they have over DAZ:  DAZ NEEDS THEM to succeed.  Without them, they are toast.  Majority of revenue comes from them.  Not these base models.  PA created content is where much of their money comes from, and if they wish to keep their artists happy, then they better start giving them MORE of the money.

Renderhub doesn't take anything and that is why many are now selling on that site.

I am not trying to endorse it, Dark.  I am just trying to state the situation that this INDUSTRY or industries as a whole is in.  People are SICK of Degeneracy, Indoctrination, Propaganda, you name it being put into Movies, TV Shows, Video Games, you name it.  We are sick of the PANDERING of mental illness and yes it is a MENTAL ILLNESS!

I don't care what anyone on this forum says otherwise cause they are just talking through their brainwashing.   It is a PROVEN FACT!

I agree, Daz needs those artists...more than those artists need DAZ. It is a matter of getting them to realize that or rather, act on it.
If they were to move to direct sales, their sales would increase...not decrease. 
Their profits would increase. 
Never mind, the same stuff is now getting released...over and over. 
We all know “naked” sells. But when it starts to look all the same. Just a different colour...it gets stale. 
"Bathing suits", "Wet skin", "LIE makeup", "Underwear that looks like the last 6 sets released", rinse and repeat. 

The thing I have liked about renderhub is diversity of items(military, sci-fi, etc) and the fact their support team actually responds!
They will engage with someone! Which is so refreshing.
Unlike some places that flat out ignore anyone that remotely complains(validly) about their site. (Please see example in this very thread)
As to hinky items, I havent purchased anything as yet, that has been hinky(from renderhub). And the artists have been fast to reply to any questions that I have had. 
Some of the artists sell at Renderhub and here as a matter of fact. 
Now hinky stuff? Well as I now have several support tickets open in Daz and no replies. Or little feed back, no solutions and excuses why some products havent been working since people started to report the issue in 2018! I think Hinky covers it. They even admit the particular product didnt work "out of the box". Admitted that the files didnt work as they should. Did they remove the item and fix it? NOPE!
So, hinky…seems to be in more than one direction. 
(and still no fix to the subscription issue. But hey! daz is the golden child that no one can complain about!)

What is sad, really, is some amazing artists are there. Luthbel comes to mind, Aeon Soul another. Those are the artists that have made it difficult to just go "NOPE" to daz. Artists whose quality is amazing. And worth every penny they cost. 
If those artist ever walked away from daz and made their stuff direct sell...I have a feeling Daz would be in serious trouble.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

I believe top vendors stay at Daz because they're happy at Daz. Some also offer products on other sites. Those PAs who become unhappy leave, and I've no idea how it goes for them after that.

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

Their ability to delete any constructive feedback (positive or negative) is not helping too. Entire threads questioning licensings get deleted, comments debating their bussiness practices or flaws in a product too, with the users even facing permanent blocks.

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

And you have heard these things from one or more top vendors? 'Cause I don't really think anybody is giving Powerage, Zeddicuss, Midnight_Stories or their like any grief. And I don't think Stonemason, Rawart, Luthbel, Linday, Oso, Josh Crockett, etc are planning to leave any time soon. Mada has come right out on the forum to say Daz gives her extra opportunities to make money. So, sure, you could be right, but prove it!

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

Their ability to delete any constructive feedback (positive or negative) is not helping too. Entire threads questioning licensings get deleted, comments debating their bussiness practices or flaws in a product too, with the users even facing permanent blocks.

Sure, their sometimes overzealous and heavy-handed moderation is well known and often discussed. But it's their site, their ToS, etc. And I tell you from experience, you can push pretty far and they give plenty of warning before you go so far over the edge that you get banned. If you reach the limit, they'll warn you. You can take their obvious warning and adjust yourself so you get to stay (has happened to me - I usually choose to take a longish cooling-off break after anything like that happens -There or here) or keep pushing and let the bad things happen. Either way, I don't think a bad end is inevitable. It's sort of a choice.

Torquinox posted at 5:57 AM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498080

@ShelLuser So, you test for Renderotica? Sounds amusing. I shop there, too. And you say the 'rotica rejects land on renderhub? I believe that. I would add, despite all that, there are some reputable vendors and freebie donors who also distribute on renderhub. But it's definitely buyer beware! 

Guilty as charged ;)   As soon as I discovered that there was more available than just Daz packages and also discovered the ease of the contents library pane I started looking into other websites, and now most of my stuff is bought from 3rd parties these days. And what I always found ironic was even though the emphasis is heavy on the "naughty stuff" there's also plenty more available.

Torquinox posted at 5:58 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498125

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

And you have heard these things from one or more top vendors? 'Cause I don't really think anybody is giving Powerage, Zeddicuss, Midnight_Stories or their like any grief. And I don't think Stonemason, Rawart, Luthbel, Linday, Oso, Josh Crockett, etc are planning to leave any time soon. Mada has come right out on the forum to say Daz gives her extra opportunities to make money. So, sure, you could be right, but prove it!

Now, an important disclaimer is in effect: I don't really bother myself with "politics" and also don't keep up with every shift in power. However... @Putitadelamierda2 is fully on the mark here, I've also heard stories told by vendors and mentioned by "my" staff; vendors who moved away from Daz (to "us" amongst other markets (probably Renderosity too!)) and they definitely mentioned that one of the most compelling reasons to move was not being allowed to sell elsewhere other than Daz.

I don't know how far and deep this actually goes (whether this is also set up in contracts and what not) but if you hear this mentioned from multiple vendors... then something stinks (IMO).

Do note that I don't want to make it sound as if vendors constantly walk away or stuff like that, I don't know. But I do share Putita's opinion, based on what I've heard.

My opinion and experience is that Renderhub is really satisfying, there are no Testers that anonymously can grab your assets for free judging on them, it stay's in the creators responsibility to release a satisfying product. Once you hit the post button it is published, you can edit, update your product and post with no delay at any time. Avoiding that a Tester needs to pull out the finger out of hes's a** and hope that it will show off after a few day's standing under a dictatorship. Customers can contact you personally and ask for a fix and update that can be done in no matter of time and updated on the product release also for all other customers with no delay caused through testing's.

If your products are crap, it will show on the ranks, customers will avoid your shop, you have to make refunds, you have no future, you gain no fallowers.

If the customers and products are satisfying then you get a boost, you get fallowers and collectors for your releases and make comparable to other brokers better earnings. I was on rotica yes and I was not pleased at all, with the max of 100 buck a month compared to 500 buck - 3k on RH , considering that every broker charges between 50% and 40 % fee " Even RH " making it up to 6k sales. Top notch vendors with a big group of fallowers even boost up over 6k a month. " I am not in that category as Sex would sell better " 

Concluding that for a Creator it sure is a positive aspect on RH, also not getting the feeling to be just a cheap employee of some Broker, getting more self responsibility for the releases, leaving you even the freedom to promote other places you sell your products or your own webstore. 

 

ShelLuser posted at 12:18 AM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498134

Now, an important disclaimer is in effect: I don't really bother myself with "politics" and also don't keep up with every shift in power. However... @Putitadelamierda2 is fully on the mark here, I've also heard stories told by vendors and mentioned by "my" staff; vendors who moved away from Daz (to "us" amongst other markets (probably Renderosity too!)) and they definitely mentioned that one of the most compelling reasons to move was not being allowed to sell elsewhere other than Daz.

I don't know how far and deep this actually goes (whether this is also set up in contracts and what not) but if you hear this mentioned from multiple vendors... then something stinks (IMO).

Do note that I don't want to make it sound as if vendors constantly walk away or stuff like that, I don't know. But I do share Putita's opinion, based on what I've heard.

Ok. Thanks for your input.

This is what I think: Folks like DeeceyArt say they were not well treated. I believe that. Folks like FirstBastion say the market has got tougher, less lucrative. I believe that, too. Folks like JoeQuick have not been creating lately - A couple years, it seems. That happens. Folks like RawArt are going full tilt and only sell at Daz store. Folks like Zeddicuss and Powerage are apparently going strong and sell multiple places.

It all suggests there might be soft tiers for the vendors. With respect to multiple marketplaces, the only actual hard rule I've heard is that Daz doesn't want folks selling their Daz products outside the Daz store. Sensible! But I'm not a PA or vendor. So, there's still a lot of grey area and speculation. Not sure filling in the blanks will solve anything, but it's the topic du jour, so I'm going with it. 

If there is strong pressure from Daz store to keep their vendors in the Daz store, I would guess that's because their PAs have access to specialized vendor tools in DS, and Daz wants to keep products made using those proprietary tools on the Daz site. If those tools are not used, that may have an effect as well. It's speculation. >_>

@Versum You're describing no quality control, good reason for big distrust. As customer, I probably would not buy from you. Also I've never heard of you. What do you even do?

@ Torquinox

you probably would not, tastes are quiet individual when it comes to models, and customers have there preferences :)

Versum posted at 2:28 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498166

@ Torquinox

you probably would not, tastes are quiet individual when it comes to models, and customers have there preferences :)

Oh. Summoner. It's you! Why didn't you just identify yourself to begin with? Yeah, I know, you're meticulous, you make custom figures, and you don't have a quality problem. So I take it back. My only cause for concern is your commitment to fan arts. You say it's commercial license, but that's tricky when you're recreating people's stuff. I suppose it depends if it's just "inspired by" or copied. Without necessarily knowing the source, it's hard to know. Same problem, every store!

ok this might be a little in your style direction, who knows, at least from what I can see in your gallery. Love doing these nasty, creepy, slimy, creatures.

Torquinox posted at 9:39 AM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498158

It all suggests there might be soft tiers for the vendors. With respect to multiple marketplaces, the only actual hard rule I've heard is that Daz doesn't want folks selling their Daz products outside the Daz store.

First: Thanks for your kind (unquoted but easily looked up) words, appreciate it. Looked up your profile because of it, found your gallery, grinned at your "Abomination" (omg, loving it!).

I'd like to share yet one more take. Unfounded, no sources, no leads, nothing more but personal (unfounded!) experiences. Only fair because IMO it should work both ways.

So, I'd like to mention that it's also fair to state that people who have beef with someone or some company are also more prone to speak up (negatively) vs. people who are just happy with the way things are going. Please don't read between the lines here (looking at you random reader!).

Totally unfair comment (!) => how long ago was it since someone tried posting a tutorial here? ;)  Not directed at you Torq (obviously!) but meant in general.

Kinda ironic.. on YouTube people beg you to follow them and then I click that 'x' button. Yet with conversations such as these...  ok, totally offtopic ;)  moving right along...

Daz has no issues with people selling at other stores, as long as they are different products - there is no such thing as a Daz exclusive vendor. Of course tools like the HD importer and dForce hair are limited to items being sold at Daz.

Well Fan Art is requested in loads, getting flooded with requests, actually a normal behavior of Poser Ds users, they watch a game of thrones, some Star wars, admiring these characters and evidentially want to be part of it. they just want it in there collections, a little like kids who make a cape and stick a "S" on  the chest to be as long Imagination lasts a Superhero.

Artists often tries to fulfill dreams, make others happy to feel happy him self, not really all about money, So it often happens that just to give a little smile give he's best to fulfill a little dream.  

 so all good Torquinox , could not really just say, Hey I'm summoner , that is the point where I often just get kicked out LOL 

RHaseltine posted at 3:26 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498172

Daz has no issues with people selling at other stores, as long as they are different products - there is no such thing as a Daz exclusive vendor. Of course tools like the HD importer and dForce hair are limited to items being sold at Daz.

Yes, that's what I was getting at - not as well-worded, though.

Versum posted at 2:57 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498168

ok this might be a little in your style direction, who knows, at least from what I can see in your gallery. Love doing these nasty, creepy, slimy, creatures.

That guy is pretty cool! Your work looks great! Hat's off to you!

I buy stuff from pretty much all of the 3D places, even the lesser ones like Artstation, Gumroad. etc. I've had to make many returns at Daz, too many to count, a few returns at Renderosity, I think 2 actually, and I've never had to make any returns at RenderHub or Renderotica. So As far as trust goes, having product testers really means nothing. There's been many horror stories of the low quality product that is allowed at Daz. There are vendors there who do nothing but make figures with duplicate formulas, there is a "star" vendor there who pretty much does nothing but take other people's models, and then make HDRIs out of them. Sometimes going as far as repackaging free HDRs from polyhaven. I will never buy anything from him. And lets not get started on the NFTs, the Yellow AI fiasco, or the short lived Daz AI web thing. There's vendors there who make very nice looking products in the promos, but which are almost universally unuseable, because of the poly count, texture size, etc. I have a blacklist of vendors at Daz because of this. It's that bad. 

Allowing reviews on a site is the biggest factor in trust. I'd rather have honest criticism in the comment section for a product than rely on unknown product testers, who may or may not have an agenda. if you are getting something for free to test, of course you are going to be swayed by that and not give a completely honest critique or you most likely won't be asked to do product testing again for that vendor. We all know how this works. You can look at the movie industry or videogame industry, the insiders who get freebies to test are never (or rarely) completely honest with criticisms. Whereas, 10 reviews from average end users who paid for the product and tested it on there own, are much more trustworthy to me.

So I have no problem spending money at Renderhub or Renderosity who both allow end user reviews. I can see right away which vendors and products to avoid. If you can't allow reviews on your site from the end user, that is a huge red flag to me. Daz has always been vehemently opposed to this for "some reason". They seem to think people will spend money on a product only to viciously leave unwarranted bad reviews. And yet this is not a problem at any other site, odd isn't it? "The wicked flee when none pursue" comes to mind.

I only rarely spend money at Daz anymore, and its only because they have an extremely liberal return policy within the first 30 days which is at least a safety net. Unfortunately, I have bought things there which have been broken past 30 days by studio updates or updates by the vendors themselves. So to be honest my trust for Daz today is lower than all the other stores combined. It wasn't always like this, i used to spend thousands a year there.  It's also creepy that they have their mods patrol these boards as well and do damage control here. 

RHaseltine posted at 3:26 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498172

Daz has no issues with people selling at other stores, as long as they are different products - there is no such thing as a Daz exclusive vendor.

So, no exclusive vendors, still exclusive products. Sorry Richard, but that is hurting vendors just as much. And pretty much confirms what I was talking about above.

Ironic... I had a very personal (and honest!) talk with my 'not "official"' boss just a few hours ago (I know I kinda went all out here) and they told me... "you do you, we're good either way!". I don't care for politics, but I have a helluvalot of respect for open and honest markets (and being honest myself)..

How ironic indeed....

One of my all time favorite vendors is Aiylaf Learning, though people here on Renderosity know them as Aiylafrn. I'd like to point out Gretta Gardenia. Trust me: unlike "other market places" the product image actually tells you exactly what you can expect (ok, ok: apart from the headband). I hope readers can trust me again because: what you see is what you get. Seriously. Why the confidence? Because I tested this product myself months ago and here's the thing: I understand bias, if you're one of my list favorite vendors... you need to be on your best to pass my tests.

At the time of writing (1 day left!), 50% off at $8 added up. Meanwhile, on "my" site of the 'naughyness' "we" sell this for $15. 

(seriously random reader: this is a steal!  Even the elven ears are but an optional morph!).

Here's the thing... I'm not new to this place (Hi Loki!), and while I do have a soft spot for "that other place", I also only got as much to spend. Got myself an awesome kimono only last week.

... and then we soon get into a position where "we" provide the best deal. Seriously: I've seen this many times before. How long after the Renderosity sale ends before "we" get the "best" deal? 

In the end the people profit, and both markets profit by showing mutual respect for one another (I'd like to think there's a good reason why my "boss" told me "you do you"). 

Because once again: I can't help but wonder how long it'll take after this sale ends before Aiylaf (= how I know them) will apply a discount on "our" market. And then "we'll" do "better" than this place, but only for so long.

In the end buyers profit, both markets profit and left's not forget: the vendors profit.

Sorry to go here, but trying to force a vendor to only sell a product on one market only almost makes me wonder if some people are scared of a little competition.

... you do realize that my "allegiance" is with Aiylaf here, right? I'm venting as much for Renderosity as I do for "my place" at times. And I (almost) always have a cool deal to point out. Raising my "credibility" (blech!) but most of all: vendors are selling, no matter what I say.

Just my 2 cents here of course... Truthfully I have no idea about actual figures and quotes.

Sorry for a double post y'all...  I know... I need to be sharper, and also improve my profile pic soon enough!

RHaseltine posted at 3:26 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498172

Daz has no issues with people selling at other stores, as long as they are different products - there is no such thing as a Daz exclusive vendor. Of course tools like the HD importer and dForce hair are limited to items being sold at Daz.

Just wondering: does 35% ring any bells with you? ;)

Versum posted at 3:26 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498173

Well Fan Art is requested in loads, getting flooded with requests, actually a normal behavior of Poser Ds users, they watch a game of thrones, some Star wars, admiring these characters and evidentially want to be part of it. they just want it in there collections, a little like kids who make a cape and stick a "S" on  the chest to be as long Imagination lasts a Superhero.

Artists often tries to fulfill dreams, make others happy to feel happy him self, not really all about money, So it often happens that just to give a little smile give he's best to fulfill a little dream.  

 so all good Torquinox , could not really just say, Hey I'm summoner , that is the point where I often just get kicked out LOL 

re: Fan Arts: I understand. Makes sense, too.

re: could not really just say, Hey I'm Summoner: Haha! That would have made it simpler for me! Whatever impression I might give, I've got a lot of respect for you, your work, and your ingenuity!

ShelLuser posted at 3:14 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498169

Torquinox posted at 9:39 AM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498158

It all suggests there might be soft tiers for the vendors. With respect to multiple marketplaces, the only actual hard rule I've heard is that Daz doesn't want folks selling their Daz products outside the Daz store.

First: Thanks for your kind (unquoted but easily looked up) words, appreciate it. Looked up your profile because of it, found your gallery, grinned at your "Abomination" (omg, loving it!).

I'd like to share yet one more take. Unfounded, no sources, no leads, nothing more but personal (unfounded!) experiences. Only fair because IMO it should work both ways.

So, I'd like to mention that it's also fair to state that people who have beef with someone or some company are also more prone to speak up (negatively) vs. people who are just happy with the way things are going. Please don't read between the lines here (looking at you random reader!).

Totally unfair comment (!) => how long ago was it since someone tried posting a tutorial here? ;)  Not directed at you Torq (obviously!) but meant in general.

Kinda ironic.. on YouTube people beg you to follow them and then I click that 'x' button. Yet with conversations such as these...  ok, totally offtopic ;)  moving right along...

Thank you for your kind words and the follow!   

Fair to state: True! I agree. 

I saw your tutorial thread. I like it. Cheers to you for starting it!

ShelLuser posted at 6:44 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498184

Sorry for a double post y'all...  I know... I need to be sharper, and also improve my profile pic soon enough!

RHaseltine posted at 3:26 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498172

Daz has no issues with people selling at other stores, as long as they are different products - there is no such thing as a Daz exclusive vendor. Of course tools like the HD importer and dForce hair are limited to items being sold at Daz.

Just wondering: does 35% ring any bells with you? ;)

No.By default Daz PAs get 50%, the top-sellers get more (which is obviously an incentive to put as much as possible at Daz for people who are on the edge of qualifying).

Torquinox posted at 5:58 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498125

Putitadelamierda2 posted at 4:56 PM Fri, 25 July 2025 - #4498123

It's a toxic relationship, PA's desperately seek greener fields other than the main site, some straight up quit, and those who don’t sell their products exclusively with them are targeted and pressured to stop any activity outside their platform (Secondary shops, Patreon, Artstation...), or face consequences.

And you have heard these things from one or more top vendors? 'Cause I don't really think anybody is giving Powerage, Zeddicuss, Midnight_Stories or their like any grief. And I don't think Stonemason, Rawart, Luthbel, Linday, Oso, Josh Crockett, etc are planning to leave any time soon. Mada has come right out on the forum to say Daz gives her extra opportunities to make money. So, sure, you could be right, but prove it!

A couple of months back on DA, I contacted directly, an artist that was working on a BEAUTIFUL project for g8-9. In that convo, it was said directly to me (still have the inbox) that if they do sell it at daz it can only be at daz. 
This was not the first vendor that has told me the exact same thing. There have been vendors that have made this information very public numerous times. Its to corner the market, its to make it so people -have- to go to DAZ if they wish to purchase certain artists items. It is literally how DAZ Is keeping afloat. 
Not from great customer service, that is for sure! 
Anyone that has remotely spoken to a "Daz asset" artist knows this. 
The other common knowledge, is that they may make the bulk of their profit in the first couple of weeks to month of release. 
Other artists actually lose money due to “sales” that DAZ runs. 
This again, is common knowledge. You can go find it yourself. Don't just take our words on it!
The “Top artists”, yes, they are getting a better deal. DAZ gives them “spotlight” attention...because they know if those artists go...that is it for them.
If those artists you named ever left daz or offered their products as a direct buy...I would never go back to daz. And many of us would leave to give our money directly to those artists. 


As to "Heavy handed by mods"...you must be an artist of understatement. 
Breathe a word that looks negative or they THINK is negative and your post is gone. It is why I literally screen cap every post and thread I post in now. 
This is not just my view. This has been repeated ad naseum by people. People that are not just randomly bringing up small things!
Big issues like say....support tickets from 2023 that are just now getting answered?
Like products, they admit, do not work "as they should" but refuse to fix. 
Like dubious IP licensing or lack there of...
Valid, solid issues. That should be addressed to the customer base of any site.

As to "its their site..." yes. You are right. It is. But it is also a BUSINESS that they are running internationally.
There is a base code of practice for most businesses. 
They also dance around their own TOS and yes, I can say that with assurance and proof. 

No other business would get the leeway DAZ is being given for 2-year-old support tickets! Or products that constantly do not meet what is advertised! 
That is a flat out fact. 
Tell me, if you bought a TV and you got it home. It didn't work. You contacted the store, and they were like…we will respond in 2-5 business days and…nothing.
You then contacted the manufacturer, and they just told you "our products are GREAT! NOTHING WRONG" and ignored you. Didn't respond etc...
That you would be ok?

You would just "Oh well hooodee hooo" and toss the TV and go get a new one?

I do not think so.
Or if you had that issue with the hypothetical TV and it took 2 years to get a reply?
You would be ok?
Would ANYONE be ok with that?

Yet, complain about DAZ doing -exactly- that and suddenly its acceptable for a company to do?
Logic fail.

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Torquinox posted at 2:48 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498167

Versum posted at 2:28 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498166

@ Torquinox

you probably would not, tastes are quiet individual when it comes to models, and customers have there preferences :)

Oh. Summoner. It's you! Why didn't you just identify yourself to begin with? Yeah, I know, you're meticulous, you make custom figures, and you don't have a quality problem. So I take it back. My only cause for concern is your commitment to fan arts. You say it's commercial license, but that's tricky when you're recreating people's stuff. I suppose it depends if it's just "inspired by" or copied. Without necessarily knowing the source, it's hard to know. Same problem, every store!

Your reply...changed the moment you recognize the Summoner name. 
THAT says allot. You werent taking them at their word, until you realized it was a familiar name. 

My experience at Renderhub is like Summoner stated, the artists respond (and from my experience) fast. I dont think I have ever waited more than maybe 24 hours for a reply. They take on board what you feed back or ask. They are willing to work with you. 
I have had an artist request to use one of my pieces in their gallery for a product. So they are not just putting up the "tester artists work" but "work that is 'in the field' used"
The reputation there is based on quality and artist response to customers. 
End...of.

And that is why more and more of us are going there. 

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

GeorgeWeber posted at 5:11 PM Sat, 26 July 2025 - #4498181

I buy stuff from pretty much all of the 3D places, even the lesser ones like Artstation, Gumroad. etc. I've had to make many returns at Daz, too many to count, a few returns at Renderosity, I think 2 actually, and I've never had to make any returns at RenderHub or Renderotica. So As far as trust goes, having product testers really means nothing. There's been many horror stories of the low quality product that is allowed at Daz. There are vendors there who do nothing but make figures with duplicate formulas, there is a "star" vendor there who pretty much does nothing but take other people's models, and then make HDRIs out of them. Sometimes going as far as repackaging free HDRs from polyhaven. I will never buy anything from him. And lets not get started on the NFTs, the Yellow AI fiasco, or the short lived Daz AI web thing. There's vendors there who make very nice looking products in the promos, but which are almost universally unuseable, because of the poly count, texture size, etc. I have a blacklist of vendors at Daz because of this. It's that bad. 

Allowing reviews on a site is the biggest factor in trust. I'd rather have honest criticism in the comment section for a product than rely on unknown product testers, who may or may not have an agenda. if you are getting something for free to test, of course you are going to be swayed by that and not give a completely honest critique or you most likely won't be asked to do product testing again for that vendor. We all know how this works. You can look at the movie industry or videogame industry, the insiders who get freebies to test are never (or rarely) completely honest with criticisms. Whereas, 10 reviews from average end users who paid for the product and tested it on there own, are much more trustworthy to me.

So I have no problem spending money at Renderhub or Renderosity who both allow end user reviews. I can see right away which vendors and products to avoid. If you can't allow reviews on your site from the end user, that is a huge red flag to me. Daz has always been vehemently opposed to this for "some reason". They seem to think people will spend money on a product only to viciously leave unwarranted bad reviews. And yet this is not a problem at any other site, odd isn't it? "The wicked flee when none pursue" comes to mind.

I only rarely spend money at Daz anymore, and its only because they have an extremely liberal return policy within the first 30 days which is at least a safety net. Unfortunately, I have bought things there which have been broken past 30 days by studio updates or updates by the vendors themselves. So to be honest my trust for Daz today is lower than all the other stores combined. It wasn't always like this, i used to spend thousands a year there.  It's also creepy that they have their mods patrol these boards as well and do damage control here. 

Very well said!

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

DarkElegance posted at 3:05 PM Sun, 27 July 2025 - #4498215

Your reply...changed the moment you recognize the Summoner name. 
THAT says allot. You werent taking them at their word, until you realized it was a familiar name. 

Yes, I give Summoner special dispensation. Not everyone does work the way he does. I've conversed with him a bit over time and scoped out some of his work. So, I feel comfortable doing that in his case. 

Torquinox posted at 4:21 PM Sun, 27 July 2025 - #4498219

DarkElegance posted at 3:05 PM Sun, 27 July 2025 - #4498215

Your reply...changed the moment you recognize the Summoner name. 
THAT says allot. You werent taking them at their word, until you realized it was a familiar name. 

Yes, I give Summoner special dispensation. Not everyone does work the way he does. I've conversed with him a bit over time and scoped out some of his work. So, I feel comfortable doing that in his case. 

And yet you automatically assume someone else is lying? Not being factual? Because its not a “recognized name”?

The answer they gave didnt change. Your view of it did.  So someone you "like" is honest, but anyone else...is not?

You do not see an issue with that?

Why didnt you just take a person that has first hand experience from Renderhub as being honest? They gave their honest experience. 
What was there to doubt?

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

DarkElegance Please understand, I am not required to believe everyone I meet on the interwebs. And I'm not required to blindly trust someone I don't know, know of, know about, etc. And you need to stop hassling me for having a different opinion than you do on this topic. Ok?

Ok; this might grow into a misunderstanding of interests, and there should be no need to judge where a Creator or Customer feels best to find a stay. It is a personal preference.

Giving you some examples: I have my own site " Freedom of Art " running over a decade for Poser and DS, I run a second store on Renderhub, so what happens!? Customers will be on the place they feel better, no matter if the price "in my case" is higher on Renderhub then on my own site due the broker charge. The phenomenon is that even that a customer know the fact of my own and could save would rather support Renderhub then my site, why is this ? It is because they have there preferences and stay where they feel more Conformable, same with my site, members feeling comfortable would not go to renderhup getting my products.

This might be the same with any other site, like here  or Daz  for either party Vendor and Customers, they just stay where they feel happy. What happen now escalates into a misinterpretation of the situation, I gave my opinion about Renderhub knowing that it might result as provocation for some as personal interests always can end up into conflicts with other interests. 

Without trying to influence any personal preference, there is to consider that  Torquinox might be a member of "Freedom of Art" rather then Renderhub, be it the case then it is a justified choice of interest.  Due the fact that I run two places as far as I can see this situation might of escalated, not giving price who I am in first place. Torquinox probably just did not want to mention my Private site that is fully understandable in these forums. 

Anyone has the right having the freedom to be where they feel best without being offended :) 
 

 

So.... IMO this is a very interesting thread, lots of different takes on things, comments which can be picked up as official (or close enough), I learned a thing or two.

But at the same time I also can't help but pick up a lot of personal bias (also from myself!). Yet therein lies a problem. I see people above complain about Daz3d customer service. I actually needed / wanted their help 2 times in total, and the last time (several years ago) was to request a refund because I was kinda upset with the quality of the product I bought. No questions asked, it got processed in a few days and I was asked to please remove the item from my computer (I had already done this, but still you guys... talk about a display of trust). This is kinda on-par with what I assume is the official Daz3d refund policy (I tried finding something more recent but...).

Meanwhile....  Renderosity's refund policy is quite clear: if you download the item you basically accept it for what it is. "That other site I talked about" roughly uses the same approach.

And if there's one thing I know about refunds it's that it's a (major) market expense. Time, administration, money... while the store makes no profit. I think there's a good reason why both Daz3d as well as Steam make it perfectly clear that if you abuse the service then you may be fully denied refunds completely.

Then there's also the issue of Daz3d doing more than just being a marketplace: providing & maintaining software such as Daz Studio, but let's also not forget about the Daz Install Manager. Software development... is also a whole other level of expenses. That too should be factored into any criticism I think. It's easy to make comparisons when you only have a 3d marketplace in mind where the community is basically doing most of the work and where your own overhead expenses are only so much.

Not trying to "play" both sides here, but I just want to emphasize that even though I don't agree with some posters above, I do agree with what they're trying to say (assuming I picked up their message correctly): There's (usually) always another side to a story.

As always... just my 2 cents here. And I really need to work on my avatar ;)

ShelLuser posted at 5:25 AM Mon, 28 July 2025 - #4498231

So.... IMO this is a very interesting thread, lots of different takes on things, comments which can be picked up as official (or close enough), I learned a thing or two.

But at the same time I also can't help but pick up a lot of personal bias (also from myself!). Yet therein lies a problem. I see people above complain about Daz3d customer service. I actually needed / wanted their help 2 times in total, and the last time (several years ago) was to request a refund because I was kinda upset with the quality of the product I bought. No questions asked, it got processed in a few days and I was asked to please remove the item from my computer (I had already done this, but still you guys... talk about a display of trust). This is kinda on-par with what I assume is the official Daz3d refund policy (I tried finding something more recent but...).

Meanwhile....  Renderosity's refund policy is quite clear: if you download the item you basically accept it for what it is. "That other site I talked about" roughly uses the same approach.

And if there's one thing I know about refunds it's that it's a (major) market expense. Time, administration, money... while the store makes no profit. I think there's a good reason why both Daz3d as well as Steam make it perfectly clear that if you abuse the service then you may be fully denied refunds completely.

Then there's also the issue of Daz3d doing more than just being a marketplace: providing & maintaining software such as Daz Studio, but let's also not forget about the Daz Install Manager. Software development... is also a whole other level of expenses. That too should be factored into any criticism I think. It's easy to make comparisons when you only have a 3d marketplace in mind where the community is basically doing most of the work and where your own overhead expenses are only so much.

Not trying to "play" both sides here, but I just want to emphasize that even though I don't agree with some posters above, I do agree with what they're trying to say (assuming I picked up their message correctly): There's (usually) always another side to a story.

As always... just my 2 cents here. And I really need to work on my avatar ;)

In reference to the “customer service” issue.
As I have noted before in other threads. Some responses from DAZ were great. There is a new person that is responding to tickets and I don't know who they are, but kudos to their honesty, their bluntness and their "on the ball" mentality. The fact they are saddled with trying to deal with tickets that are from 2023, not their fault. 
I appreciate their responses and have told them that. 

BUT...when there is a blatant dropping of the ball and instead of going "hold on, we messed up. let us fix it". They go and try to make it the customer's issues and not theirs, or flat out ignore it. No. that is not acceptable. 
And when that happens more than, say...5-10 times. It's not a "one off". 
(And I am not the only one that experiences this)
I too, have had an issue of "This is not what I was expecting when purchasing" and the person replying, was like "ok let me do your refund". Guess what. No issue!
But when an item is provably, not what is being sold(first reported back in 2018). Is continued to be sold broken. And they ignore a request for a refund? Then TWO YEARS LATER, reply to the ticket? THAT is a VALID issue.

When you report an issue such as many of us have over the subscription thing…and it is flat out IGNORED. That is a VALID issue.
I am not the only one being vocal about it. 
When a customer is sitting for years, trying to get some response, some action, some resolution for a valid issue…yes. They get angry. Rightfully so.  We are not talking about "Oh I thought the texture would be a different colour" issue…we are talking about products being unusable. File associations not working at all (and they admit it!), Financial loss on a subscription that had no declaration and was purposefully missold. 
Those are valid issues. Issues, a customer has every right to be angry about, frustrated about...VOCAL about.

And btw, I get vocal about good service too. Just as I have noted here Renderhub, I have had (to date) no issue at all. The artists have been fast to reply, fixes offered, the support staff there reply to customers…I have had nothing to complain about. You get to work directly with the artists. 
I am also vocal when it comes to artists that have great products. One of my absolute fav artists((romarovprivate),  I made sure to leave feed back on. (btw for those looking for bang for buck...cant beat their products. Details, quality, usability, *chefs kiss*)
I happily point people to artists that provide great assets and customer service. 


People get pushed to a limit, to the wall and when they stand up and go "NOPE" and become vocal...perhaps look at the reason they are being so vocal instead of making out like they are just being difficult. 

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Torquinox posted at 7:53 PM Sun, 27 July 2025 - #4498224

DarkElegance Please understand, I am not required to believe everyone I meet on the interwebs. And I'm not required to blindly trust someone I don't know, know of, know about, etc. And you need to stop hassling me for having a different opinion than you do on this topic. Ok?

You are right. You arent. But at the same time, automatically assuming someone is not being factual? 
(and that is why I keep, as they say, receipts)

Also, I find your stance incredibly interesting actually...seeing as a convo you started with me back in 2023 via site mail. Where you were concerned over IP licensing with daz.
(actually had to double check that. I for a moment, thought perhaps I had the wrong name...but I wasnt mistaken)

https://www.darkelegance.co.uk/

Commission Closed till 2025

Wow! Well, there's a lot I want to say, and I can't actually say any of it - It would just drag the thread down another, deeper rabbithole. So, cheers to ShelLuser! Good to see you here, Versum. Sorry, DarkElegance.