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Subject: Dynamic Clothes WIPs for La Femme 2


odf ( ) posted Fri, 22 December 2023 at 8:01 PM

Some progress with the knit pattern. Not quite there yet, but getting a bit closer, I think.

fIh6USKX7PJ7BVzBI0r1EouKt7gw8BsmJEdoC7ki.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 23 December 2023 at 7:01 PM

I think this is where I'll leave it for now. Rejoice, no more boring posts showing off procedural bump maps. 😁

TN0NTV4udBIjDmTGzbnTQDpKLXEZLoUOF81mx0vJ.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 24 December 2023 at 6:41 PM · edited Sun, 24 December 2023 at 6:41 PM

Here's a vaguely seasonal color variant. Merry solstice-adjacent festivity of your choice, everyone!

5TlDYIlMYKgCB340bF87XJeVXI9YuiHGvCdFTspO.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Afrodite-Ohki ( ) posted Mon, 25 December 2023 at 3:16 PM

That's amazing for procedural! Does it take too long to render?


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Feel free to call me Ohki!

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odf ( ) posted Mon, 25 December 2023 at 3:42 PM
Afrodite-Ohki posted at 3:16 PM Mon, 25 December 2023 - #4479577

That's amazing for procedural! Does it take too long to render?

I haven't measured, but it didn't feel unusually slow to me. Then again, I use procedural textures a lot.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Miss B ( ) posted Mon, 25 December 2023 at 4:07 PM
odf posted at 6:41 PM Sun, 24 December 2023 - #4479546

Here's a vaguely seasonal color variant. Merry solstice-adjacent festivity of your choice, everyone!

I'm loving it!!  😁

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


odf ( ) posted Mon, 25 December 2023 at 4:24 PM

Speaking of procedural textures: the more of the skin I cover with opaque clothing, the less subsurface scattering needs to be computed. So, unless the procedural textures on the clothes were horrendously complicated, I wouldn't even be too surprised if it rendered faster. 😁

That said, if it's a concern, one could always bake the textures and compare render times between the procedurals and the baked image maps.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Bastep ( ) posted Tue, 26 December 2023 at 2:22 AM

odf posted at 6:41 PM Sun, 24 December 2023 - #4479546

Here's a vaguely seasonal color variant. Merry solstice-adjacent festivity of your choice, everyone!


That's really good.

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 3:16 PM Mon, 25 December 2023 - #4479577

That's amazing for procedural! Does it take too long to render?


I use procedural textures mainly for makeup and lip colors. I can't really notice a difference in render times compared to image textures. But since I almost exclusively use Cycles nodes, the messed up working window is not really a pleasure.

Greetings and Merry Christmas
Stephan



LapinDeFer ( ) posted Tue, 26 December 2023 at 7:30 AM

I am very curious about the knitwear procedural (i.e. a screenshot would be welcome...)

I have recently begun importing textures from Blender to Poser Cycles, and it has worked relatively well. A few stumbling blocks, though, including the different coloramps between Poser and Blender.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 26 December 2023 at 6:08 PM

LapinDeFer posted at 7:30 AM Tue, 26 December 2023 - #4479595

I am very curious about the knitwear procedural (i.e. a screenshot would be welcome...)

Well, it's pretty messy, but here's the big compound node that I add noise to taste to and plug into the bump channel. For visualization purposes, the scale value is much lower here than in a real fabric. Knit uses three kinds of compound nodes in turn, Tiling, Bump and Zigzag. Tiling converts uv-space to allow for repeating patterns. It has two scale inputs and an angle. I later notices I needed an offset as well, which is why currently only one of the Tiling nodes has that (call it V2). The bump node makes a bump, it's basically the function x * (1 - x) with a bit of tweaking. It's used to make threads and ribs. Zigzag creates a mask to distinguish between thread directions. It's mostly made up of modulo operations.

xAGI8q3hdmnj3cHYCQpz0JS2BNWXDzU2KEADHaUX.jpg

The color variations are just done with cloud nodes, which I don't think I need to show.

If we go into any more detail, we should probably move it to one of the general Poser forums.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 26 December 2023 at 10:35 PM · edited Tue, 26 December 2023 at 10:35 PM

More cozy things! I think all of these probably still need some work, but as collection I think it works quite well. I'm still debating also giving her some mittens, though. 😁

2ATp2sGMKrLFIwOJbQOj3aGMNAMVvpScn5f66Vec.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Miss B ( ) posted Tue, 26 December 2023 at 11:19 PM

Ohhh, I like the idea of mittens.  🙂

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


odf ( ) posted Wed, 27 December 2023 at 2:01 AM · edited Wed, 27 December 2023 at 2:01 AM

Well, I'll have a go at the mittens, then.

Coarse knits work quite decently, as well, I've found. Just plug the knit procedural into the displacement instead of the bump and increase the subdivision level a bit.

gFR30vvLl05YCy516QN2RB81Ymek3YdVtuTi3n6z.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


LapinDeFer ( ) posted Wed, 27 December 2023 at 5:42 PM

This is brilliant. I'll have a stab at it tomorrow and see how it works.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 12:11 AM · edited Sat, 30 December 2023 at 12:11 AM

Folks, I'd like to run something by you: given that I've achieved workable dynamic tights and knee socks for LF2, and that dynamic socks that go higher than the knee seem to be really tricky - Antonia's needed a special conforming figure to collide with instead of the toes - I'm considering releasing a pair of tights with additional material zones so that thigh-highs can be obtained by just making some of those zones invisible. The question then is, as usual, how many zones. More provide extra flexibility, but also require a bit more work when juggling material settings. I'm thinking something like in this image might make sense: FpAubGO2p30Er5acD9Bl0iYVlU6EpJmWo96bcwLn.jpg

Each color here represents a separate zone, and each connected region that's left white in between is of course also its own zone, so we'd have ten in total. Red, green and blue make cuffs for various sock lengths, so in this case three different lengths would be supported. More zones could always be added, but since the tights have a very regular square grid (except for the toes and heels), that should also be fairly easy to do in the Poser group editor. On the flip side, the green and/or blue zone could be left out, making for easier handling out of the box.

Thoughts?

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 12:48 AM

Come to think of it, the sock height can be much more easily and seamlessly manipulated in the material room, especially if I allow myself to use Cycles node. So, ignore all my babbling up there about zones (wipes egg off face).

Will show some examples once I've made the shaders.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:46 AM

I had a go at those tights-based socks with parametrized lengths. Works like a charm. 😁

NJugx5sumPZWERhDVUJQkGPt4L203UQEDDeM8Sks.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Afrodite-Ohki ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 7:33 AM

Ooooh that's very cool and useful!

- - - - - - 

Feel free to call me Ohki!

Poser Pro 11, Poser 12 and Poser 13, Windows 10, Superfly junkie. My units are milimeters.

Persephone (the computer): AMD Ryzen 9 5900x, RTX 3070 GPU, 96gb ram.


hborre ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 9:02 AM

Agree.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 10:01 AM · edited Sat, 30 December 2023 at 10:01 AM

Hmm, your pinafore's right strap bunches pretty drastically on the breast on my simulation no matter what I do. See below. I tried different cloth settings, same result. LF2 is not morphed, this is her default shape. Excuse the rough render.79jy0ePgr18rRnlFP56y7qEizbeLVbqmBpC7FdjS.png

Any advice?



randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 11:16 AM

I ran into that issue, too. I think there must be some intersection between the pinafore and the crop top. Perhaps over her nipples. It's not as bad on the other side, but you can see a dent there.

I found scaling the crop top to 98% in frame 1, and reducing the collision depth fixed it.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 11:23 AM

Cool, I will try that, thanks so much!


hborre ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 12:18 PM

I wonder if there is some collision with the Breast Control Chips.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 12:33 PM

Ugh, the collision depth change bunches it up even more. I will try without that.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 12:48 PM

Nope, same. There must be something with the breast chips. Anyone else experiences this?


randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 1:00 PM · edited Sat, 30 December 2023 at 1:00 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

hborre posted at 12:18 PM Sat, 30 December 2023 - #4479780

I wonder if there is some collision with the Breast Control Chips.

Unchecking those doesn't fix the problem. Also, there' s a similar spot in back, where it looks like there's intersection between the pinafore straps and the crop top.

Just in case...I meant the collision depth for the crop top. Basically, the idea is to make it smaller/fit tighter. It's quite loose in the default setting.

It's interesting to see how the straps look without the crop top. (I ran the sims, then hid the crop top.)

xNRC9HIIMNLASkeGLzt5X1Dqjd987p4KTlECLuzl.png

You can see the left side also had the issue, even though it doesn't crumple as much as the right.


randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 1:03 PM · edited Sat, 30 December 2023 at 1:03 PM

And here's the spot in back.

Yh5lDPyPedzn1ItWhGjyxyOAkFJecewj6nW1HgIv.png


RedPhantom ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 1:57 PM
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Loading just the top and pinafore, and changing the color of the straps for contrast I get this before any simulation

There's some poke-through of the straps with the top. It also appears that the straps are 2 sided along the edge to give them thickness. That can cause problems with simulations too


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randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:07 PM · edited Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:07 PM

I didn't scale the crop top this time. Crop top collision offset is 0.4, collision depth is 0.1.

For it's 0.3 for both collision depth and collision offset for the pinafore, which I think is what odf recommended.

I also changed the parent of both clothing items to "universe." IME, dynamic clothing works better if it's not parented. Unless it ends up on the floor, I don't parent it to the figure.

yCUiwGGV5lFWum2VqsuWCFy4DpqdJgki8gDA9xwx.png

There are still dimples in the straps, but the spikes are gone.


randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:13 PM
The first time I ran the sim, the crop top ended up outside the straps. I think because it comes in parented to the body of the figure, and so does the pinafore. Meaning they automatically collide with each other if you pick LF to collide with.


jancory ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:21 PM · edited Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:21 PM

the 'dimples' in the front look like the constrained verts on the pinny straps.  odf put them there to keep the straps from sliding off.  

4JBvpL9TGnMWdiQXA36EL6ghLjMLYvjBBEmTWKp8.png


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randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 2:48 PM

So maybe unconstraining those would fix it? Maybe constrain them at the top instead.


randym77 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 3:02 PM

Yes, removing the constrained groups fixes the problem. The poke-through at the nipples doesn't matter; running the sim fixes that.

But I understand why he put the constrained groups there. The straps tend to slide to the sides of the boobs otherwise.



odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 3:04 PM

Yep, the crumbling is due to the constrained verts that keep the straps from sliding off her breasts. The higher the collision thickness (Is that the correct term? I don't have Poser open right now.), the more crumbling. I've found that in most poses, the straps will stay on the shoulders even if those pins are removed. They'll just not stay on top of the nipples.


-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 3:08 PM

It might be helpful to pull the straps a bit further away from the area in question before starting the simulation, either by scaling or using the morph brush, but I haven't tried that yet. General advice when using morphs with simulations: turn the morph off after simulating (or set it to zero on the final frame), otherwise things will look weird.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


jroulin ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 3:15 PM

Did you try the free simulation script I made for the set? I used different colision setings and if you want to see them simply run the sim ones so that they are loaded in the cloth room.


Rhia474 ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 3:16 PM

As i said, my LF was entirely body unmorphed. There was nothing to set to zero.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 3:34 PM
Rhia474 posted at 3:16 PM Sat, 30 December 2023 - #4479796

As i said, my LF was entirely body unmorphed. There was nothing to set to zero.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you had used a morph. I was just speculating that maybe morphing the strap might help with the crumbling, so I added that caveat about morphs in conjunction with simulations in case anyone wanted to try that.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 8:02 PM

I've tried scaling up the pinafore to 102% before simulating. That seems to have worked nicely to fix the crinkling in the front with the recommended collision settings from the Readme (see image). So, that's now my "official" recommended fix, at least for the time being. 😁 With larger collision offsets, I imagine one would have to go a bit higher with the scale-up.

WgnMlXZ9D7NVo8ZGdZ6anZjNaKQt2DWJEV6VWvI7.png

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 30 December 2023 at 8:42 PM

The issue in the back is a different story. First of all, why is it even there? It's because when I made the "pin" group for the left breast, Poser's group editor helpfully selected an extra triangle for me that I could not see on account of it being blocked by LF2's entire body, and then I did not notice on account of not seeing it. In summary, all my fault. Apologies!

This is also in an area where the top tends to bunch up away from the skin, so the scaling approach will not necessarily work too well. My best suggestion at the moment for back views of the pinafore is to either completely clear out the constrained group or, for brave folks who speak group editor, remove the offending extra triangle. Also, turn on cloth self-intersection to minimize poke-through between the crossed straps. There's still some left in the render below, but I reckon that's in the ballpark where it can be either ignored (depending on the render) or fixed up post-simulation with the morph brush.

nZHEoOWZUXFAejeY76xHfUyrQnLMJGV7eek2k6um.png

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 31 December 2023 at 10:13 PM · edited Sun, 31 December 2023 at 10:15 PM

In hindsight, I think it would have been better to give the pinafore a slight offset from the body to start with and make it sit on top of the top everywhere. Not only would that have avoided the problems with the constrained group, but it also makes simulations work better (I think) where the top is crunched up a bit underneath.

Well, live and learn… I’ll try to remember this lesson for future outfits.

That said, I think I might be publishing the tights/socks with the variable length materials as an item of their own now, given that they’re a bit more elaborate and could work with all kinds of other clothes.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 01 January 2024 at 2:49 AM · edited Mon, 01 January 2024 at 2:49 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Of course, the whole tights-as-stockings business might be a bit of a slippery slope... 😁

qn2zfFonkpejyIkeHEUDioRUVc5l1bvAPhZiF24V.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Bastep ( ) posted Mon, 01 January 2024 at 3:00 AM

Nice!

Greetings and a happy new year



odf ( ) posted Mon, 01 January 2024 at 4:59 PM

Happy New Year, Bastep, and everyone!

Just to explain why I speak of a slippery slope: it looks like it's easier to make thigh-high socks/stockings by making tights instead and then just turning the top part invisible in the material room. But what's even easier than that is making a full-length bodysuit from toes to shoulders and turning the top part of that invisible.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Miss B ( ) posted Mon, 01 January 2024 at 9:17 PM · edited Mon, 01 January 2024 at 9:19 PM
odf posted at 4:59 PM Mon, 1 January 2024 - #4479855

. . . what's even easier than that is making a full-length bodysuit from toes to shoulders and turning the top part of that invisible.

Yes, I've seen that done over the years, and it works great.  🙂

Oh and Happy New Year to you too.  😉

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz


odf ( ) posted Mon, 01 January 2024 at 9:33 PM
Miss B posted at 9:17 PM Mon, 1 January 2024 - #4479863
odf posted at 4:59 PM Mon, 1 January 2024 - #4479855

. . . what's even easier than that is making a full-length bodysuit from toes to shoulders and turning the top part of that invisible.

Yes, I've seen that done over the years, and it works great.  🙂

Yeah, it would have been very surprising if I was the first person to discover that. 🙂


-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Mon, 01 January 2024 at 11:46 PM

An unexpectedly cool result that popped up while I was building and testing modules for the fancy sock shader. I feel like she's looking like a top competitor for the 2024 Fractal Olympics. 😁

v8buGtCx1KfbtRXHgSFj3bhnRslIDSzFiPwK2l7q.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


randym77 ( ) posted Wed, 03 January 2024 at 2:02 PM

Nice. I like bodysuits with feet. (For my Poser figures. I'm too old for footie pajamas.)


odf ( ) posted Wed, 03 January 2024 at 4:31 PM · edited Wed, 03 January 2024 at 4:35 PM
randym77 posted at 2:02 PM Wed, 3 January 2024 - #4479953

Nice. I like bodysuits with feet. (For my Poser figures. I'm too old for footie pajamas.)

It's quite nifty, if I say so myself. I think I've got a pretty decent material template for it now, and it allows me to make anything from tube tops to leg warmers. I'll probably add one for Cycles, as well, so that SuperFly users have an easier time plugging in their own materials.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 07 January 2024 at 9:50 PM

Speaking of slippery slopes... 😁

uyaMqtTwHEYkWgxtdEaUKwaKbXVgP1tAIXmqvx1M.jpg

The extra fabric here is actually counter-productive when the aim is to make stockings and tights and such. But it does make for a cute onesie that I can pull out whenever someone complains that my figures show too much skin.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


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