With everyone's extensive knowledge about the DSON script. By all means convert it to Python 3 for everyone else. I mean seriously, if people claim to know exactly how it works, it won't be hard at all. That would solve the whole thing. It is just a text file after all....

It's amazing how fast the "experts" here can put off people that could actually convert it as well. It's not amazing how many people resort to throwing mud, insulting people, acting like little kids that didn't get their way, and then claim to be experts in the field they know very little about or they already would have done something productive...

It has become "the norm" here. And yet those people wonder why nothing they ask for, ever happens.

I personally have no interest in converting it now, especially after reading all the experts that have chimed in...

@shvrdavid Nice to see you ? I, personally don't care about childish rants and insults. I also don't care about those who claim to be "Intellectual superior " in front of others. This is like with money, when you have a lot, you don't talk about it. ? I block this user, because I don't want to waste time on useless,poisonous rants which are like little child's "I hold my breath till I get what I want" ....My little daughter try it, it did not go well ? I don't care about DSON, I use Genesis where Genesis belongs. In DS. Try DSON and did not like it. Try out also the Blender Bridge, not really what I was looking for.

I looking forward for new shiny scripts and new improvements in Poser 12. Improvements for LF, (hate her hands) and Dawn 2. The Future for Poser looking good to me.

BabaBozo posted at 7:42AM Tue, 24 November 2020 - #4399765

I was encouraged to discover this model in the free section of the forum yesterday:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2936022

I'm hardly an expert on such things, but to this Poser newbie this model seems a quality product. It seems professional constructed, everything you need is nicely organized all in one place, installs easily and correctly (even for me!) and is otherwise generally excellent.

If I owned Poser I would hire this artist to create a dozen new characters for the next version of Poser, which to my newbie eyes seems generally superior to all the characters currently shipping with Poser. (La Femme/Homme are perhaps more technically sophisticated?)

Point being, instead of wringing our hands about Daz content, perhaps a better solution is to identify the best artists and put them on the Poser payroll. To the degree Poser depends on Daz it's future will always be uncertain. Seems wiser to forget about Daz and focus on developing Poser characters that the market finds compelling.

Lovely creation and thanks for mentioning her - I've just downloaded her and here's my contribution: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/gallery/?image_id=2975478

TheAnimaGemini posted at 12:13PM Sun, 06 December 2020 - #4404087

@Mec4D Thank you. It is so great to read some common sense nowadays. I honestly never understand this Gen to Poser thing. It is now some kind of obsession, no matter how many times they get explained that it is not on the Poser developer to decide if Gen goes into Poser or not. I use Poser since long. I use also DS , have invested a lot in Gen 2-8 products. I invested btw also in V4 a lot and don't even bother my self anymore with her. And people also like to forget how many xtra scripts, morphs from 3rd party creator was needed to make her bend and behave properly. LF is good, all she need is support and some small fixes ( have to admit her hand is awful , especially her thumb ) , but I don't think it is sooo difficult to fix this. And there is Dawn, soon Dawn 2 , which looks very promising .Personally, I am looking forward to what comes next in Poser and LF/Dawn development. And when I have the urge to use Genesis, I open up DS.

Let me explain why I like bringing in the G figures into Poser.

I need more than generic, instantly forgettable, early 20's Caucasians - which is every post-V4 figure. I need older people, younger people, normally sized people, and clothing for professions other than the oldest profession. AFA sets, I need normal stuff for sets.

This is why I still use legacy figures. This is also why I use the fitting room to make all of my clothing content figure independent via the fitting room. And it is why I dump money over at DAZ. They make what I need. Pity the software is a poorly coded pile of poo.

Poser, DS, Blender, whatever - every program has it's limitations. It is up to you to decide which works best for you - for me, it is no contest - Poser gives me the best value.

ssgbryan posted at 11:44PM Sun, 06 December 2020 - #4406588

TheAnimaGemini posted at 12:13PM Sun, 06 December 2020 - #4404087

@Mec4D Thank you. It is so great to read some common sense nowadays. I honestly never understand this Gen to Poser thing. It is now some kind of obsession, no matter how many times they get explained that it is not on the Poser developer to decide if Gen goes into Poser or not. I use Poser since long. I use also DS , have invested a lot in Gen 2-8 products. I invested btw also in V4 a lot and don't even bother my self anymore with her. And people also like to forget how many xtra scripts, morphs from 3rd party creator was needed to make her bend and behave properly. LF is good, all she need is support and some small fixes ( have to admit her hand is awful , especially her thumb ) , but I don't think it is sooo difficult to fix this. And there is Dawn, soon Dawn 2 , which looks very promising .Personally, I am looking forward to what comes next in Poser and LF/Dawn development. And when I have the urge to use Genesis, I open up DS.

Let me explain why I like bringing in the G figures into Poser.

I need more than generic, instantly forgettable, early 20's Caucasians - which is every post-V4 figure. I need older people, younger people, normally sized people, and clothing for professions other than the oldest profession. AFA sets, I need normal stuff for sets.

This is why I still use legacy figures. This is also why I use the fitting room to make all of my clothing content figure independent via the fitting room. And it is why I dump money over at DAZ. They make what I need. Pity the software is a poorly coded pile of poo.

Poser, DS, Blender, whatever - every program has it's limitations. It is up to you to decide which works best for you - for me, it is no contest - Poser gives me the best value.

I understand where you coming from. And yes, I think Poser characters like Dawn/LF and their male counterparts could have more vendor support. More various characters, older age, ethnicity , monsters, etc..but I think here Poser users fall in their own trap. This is like a self fulfilling prophecy. As I remember, Dawn was already bashed before her official release. User give her not one fair chance. On the other hand, why should vendors spent time and money on a character which get already trashed before the official release? No support from user, no support from vendors. Poser character will disappear therefore in a void and people keep asking for another Poser character, which will have the same fate like all the others. Support Poser character, ask for new features for them, corrections whatever, V4 was at the beginning very poor too.

MazinkaiserDX posted at 11:07AM Sun, 13 December 2020 - #4403649

Personally, I think La Femme seems to be pretty good, my issue is that there is just much more stuff for Genesis figures and I already invested a lot on those, so even though I'm interested in Poser, it's just not realistic for me to invest as much on stuff for La Femme even if there was the same amount of stuff for her. Honestly, I don't even need the ability to get Genesis figures in Poser, they can just have a system like CC3 which would let me use most of my library while still using Poser native figures.

From a buyer and content maker standpoint, we, the end users are addicted to buying content. After spending over a decade running like a hamster on a wheel, every new thing that came out for the figure (s) of my choice, I would buy up with glee but found that I used VERY little of any of it.

La'Femme and L'Homme are wonderful figures with ALLOT of potential. I'm an ex DS user so I'm still finding my way around Poser and the Material room but I have a character pack for L'Homme almost completed and other ideas for him in the works. He's fun to work with, he bends well and while I think there are little niggles that need improving I ask the community when a figure is in it's first year or so don't ALL OF THEM have their niggles and annoyances? YUP!

So bottom line folks aren't embracing these new figures because mostly there isn't a full on library of stuff for them, that's really it. Bottom line. I just supported Fabi during her sale buying ONLY Poser based stuff to send a message to her that HEY OVER HERE, WE NEED YOUR BRILLIANCE! Same with Cath and many others that in recent years have jumped over to DS to make some bank. It's understandable but it's sad too that it's either or for allot folks, including me.

Back when I was starting out doing content creation I joined Hivewire team and made some stuff for Dawn and Dusk and really wanted to support both DS and Poser but my older brain was just not having it so I just focused on DS. Then I realized that since DS has Genesis my sales were abysmal, so I stopped and then jumped over to Genesis 8 Male, made a wonderful character "Gino" but not one sale. I even have him bundled with clothing and fiber hair "Bio Accessories" I made for him over at ShareCG. NADA. That's when I realized that the market for Genesis 3 & 8 were over saturated with too many offerings. So that's when I took a break from all of it and then came back and jumped ship over to Poser. No regrets, none!

So folks just have to look at what they have, repurpose it with new textures and shaders to get things looking good and be patient! We are trying to fill in gaps but that takes time!

This thread was started in September. It is now January of 2021 and I notice that no one has ever come forward to explain why Genesis is such a great figure over any others. It's not a trick question. All you have to do is explain why YOU like it so much more.

Earl, You are seemingly asking for Both technical/objective and subjective personal reasons why people prefer Genesis over other figures.

The Genesis figures have more quality clothing content and Character morph support for those who only buy/consume/render.

For those of us who produce our own content,for personal use or for sale, the Daz transfer utility and other cloth rigging tools are far superior to the mish mash of non-unified,(figure it out yourself), methods available for poser.

the only option better than the Daz cloth rigging tools are to Auto weighting tool of Iclone CC3 pipeline that I now use.

For people who are interested in animation, again it is no contest Poser animation tools are still stuck in the late 1990's?

Yet Genesis has several options for facial lipsynch in DS including an Iphone based facial mocap system,Direct Iclone support,and Daz nonliner motion clip system system animate 2.

Do you see many animations of LF/LH Dusk Dawn??

And for that majority who only render stills Daz's NVIDIA Iray Destroys "superfly"

Also for those who want to render thier figures in other 3DCC's and Game engines Daz has free plugins to export Genesis figures to those apps with JCM's intact.

And for Blender there is another free Plugin that export imports genesis figures that is even better than the Daz to Blender plugin.

Poser only has an outdated version of FBX to export figures to other applications as bondware has dropped support for it poser fusion export plugins.

In summary Earl, the quality of the figures themselves only matters to the degree they are actually supported for various end user purposes in this competitive market.( content creation,variety merchant support ,animation figure export to other programs etc)

wolf359 posted at 8:31AM Fri, 08 January 2021 - #4409541

Earl, You are seemingly asking for Both technical/objective and subjective personal reasons why people prefer Genesis over other figures.

Admittedly, some subjective personal reasons are being requested, but in many cases, it is the technical reasons which are given. I'll take either one, if they're ever given.

The Genesis figures have more quality clothing content and Character morph support for those who only buy/consume/render.

Wolf, youve been around long enough to know that Genesis did not start out with a full closet of clothing content OR Character morphs. That was built up over YEARS. Remember Auto-fit? It was actually the one thing about Studio that I DID like.

For those of us who produce our own content,for personal use or for sale, the Daz transfer utility and other cloth rigging tools are far superior to the mish mash of non-unified,(figure it out yourself), methods available for poser.

the only option better than the Daz cloth rigging tools are to Auto weighting tool of Iclone CC3 pipeline that I now use.

In summary Earl, the quality of the figures themselves only matters to the degree they are actually supported for various end user purposes in this competitive market.( content creation,variety merchant support ,animation figure export to other programs etc)

And as usual, you go off on a rant about animation. But you still don't describe any technical advantages that Genesis has over any other figure including V4. Second, as I've stated before, most of Genesis' "technical" superiority actually seems to stem from Studio, not Genesis.

Earl you seem deparate beleive that people choose figures in this little market base on the intrinsic technical or asthetic features of the DEFAULT figure itself...and ALL of the other factors I mentioned make no difference to the various users.

This is utter fantasy!!!

What do you actually do with your poser figures anyway ???

Oh... and for the record, Genesis-1 Did ,and still, has the Ability to use every peice of clothing/hair and every skin map/pose/animation files, that ever exsited for the Mill 4 figures Via autofit and UV switching from Day one.

13 years of content sir?

No DSON, no third party plugins/hacks but a native feature of its HOST application from Day one.

Market support and HOST software specific feature support ( HD morphs,JCMS,animation options, Cloth rigging tools,export options) determines which figure will be popular with both end users and Potential Content merchants.

simple economics Earl

but dont listen to me just ask Antonia, ELLE, Paul,pauline Sydney simon, Roxie, Ryan, Project E..........

I'd like a painless way to get post-V4 DAZ figures and clothing into Poser in posable form. Happens I cannot grok DS, Blender or GIMP UI, so it would help if Poser could reliably import all three major flavours of FBX rigs.

( Distinguished as 'plays nice', 'spawns several sub-rigs' and 'splat / bang'. Perhaps four if you count MakeHuman... )

I've become quite good at converting DSF props to OBJ/MTL. Okay, I cannot yet port morphs, but I'll happily use D3D's DSF Toolbox ($$) to get 'bare' OBJs. Then, if the materials / textures match is not obvious, I un-pack the associated DUF with eg 7Zip, open the 'un-typed' contents as indented text using eg Wordpad. The basic texture calls are near the start, but there's a lot more info. Analogies with a busy MC5/MC6...

Also, I'd like network rendering extended to Superfly ASAP...

wolf359 posted at 2:36AM Wed, 10 March 2021 - #4398916

All of the other third party figures are dead or dying (or aborted after six years of development in the case of "venus & Orion" by Ambient shade)

This is not entirely accurate.

"Venus & Orion" by Ambient shade

Please, could you tone-down your strobed intro page ? It bordered on 'Photic Driver', gave me a prompt migraine...

NikKelly posted at 6:41AM Wed, 10 March 2021 - #4414672

"Venus & Orion" by Ambient shade

Please, could you tone-down your strobed intro page ? It bordered on 'Photic Driver', gave me a prompt migraine...

Sorry about that. I can't change what background image tumblr puts on their warning pages. But I'm changing that link anyway cause tumblr is trash.

First Genesis is not just a 3D figure but Genesis system , the 3d base models are simple low poly meshes and nothing special about it . So at itself Genesis base mesh is nothing much , you can model the Poser4 Dork into anything you want too or Dawn or Dusk or whatever figures you come across . The whole system in Daz Studio is what makes it great and simple to work with. New users can do things without learning anything on the technical side. It is easy to make new products to support the figures too. In short it is easier for less knowledgeable users. Just buy products, click and render without decoding codes.

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ? I switched to Daz Studio completely years ago for just rendering  because of the Nvidia Iray engine as I like the simplicity and results and fast rendering, together with my Poser's Runtime . The long lack of support in Poser software turns me off and has not updated since 7 years until now, since it really started moving in the right directions I like and I hope for more standard improvements in the future.

I am working right now on some project to support Poser, HW and Rendo with my upcoming characters for HW D2's just to inspire others , since the mesh really doesn't matter , the technical side of it is and it will be so much better for sure. As usual it will be up to the users as they are the last and most important judges. There is no way to make everyone happy I know that, nobody is perfect

Here some base morph shapes for upcoming D2's figures in base low resolution that I am working on for some time now using Zbrush, all will be full characters including their wardrobes , skin, hair etc .. You can check my thread at HW under Show my Honey , here are just couple previews but there is a lot more if you like to see. Cath

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

Well, that explains a lot , I guess that is the answer why people enjoy Genesis system , as problems like that are easier to handle and people can create easy new content without super skills. I hope the new HW D2's bring something good to the community , great new realistic characters, facial rigging etc.. so nobody need facial expression morphs anymore , easy to handle and works fine since I am testing it. Definitely it is going to be something unique this time .

ChromeStar posted at 1:27PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415266

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

I wouldn't say that it is about "enjoying" the G figures, as much as it is trying to fill in all of the gaps (which are significant) between what the artist needs and what is actually available for post V4/M4 figures. Move outside of pin up, and there isn't actually much available.

Most of the DS products I have bought are filling niches that Poser vendors have chosen not to fill.

That's a valid point you have here , totally agree with you.

ssgbryan posted at 10:44PM Mon, 22 March 2021 - #4415410

I wouldn't say that it is about "enjoying" the G figures, as much as it is trying to fill in all of the gaps (which are significant) between what the artist needs and what is actually available for post V4/M4 figures. Move outside of pin up, and there isn't actually much available.

Most of the DS products I have bought are filling niches that Poser vendors have chosen not to fill.

I'm hoping that D2's rigging and mesh make content creation just a bit easier. La Femme's JCMs (and poser's rigging morphing tools) make content creation brutal. Scripts are necessary to the workflow. And some of them have to use "hacks" to make up for lack in the API.

There seems to be no way to use OBJ files to morph at higher subd. Which sucks, what with sculpt in blender 2.9 being such a nice tool. At a cost of 0.

I want to make more content, but Poser doesn't help with that.

Poser has adopted cycles. How about a proper blender bridge? One were I can have the scene open in both apps, rig and pose in poser, edit meshes in blender, mess with texture nodes and render in either.

And fries with that, please.

As a long-time Poser user (almost 20 years!) who has started using Daz Studio simply to be able to use Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 characters natively, i.e. without using complicated procedures to get individual Genesis 3 or 8 characters into Poser, I have to agree with the statement that Poser has the best software and Daz Studio has the best characters and items for them. I find Daz Studio extremely frustrating to work with because to me every step is so much more complicated than in Poser and it is rather difficult to find things in the Daz libraries, but the renders I get with Genesis 8 characters and the Iray render engine are far better than my renders of Poser characters (in Poser 11). I addition, the amount of 3rd party support for Poser characters is far, far less than for Genesis ones and getting worse. My dream - which I fear will never come true - is that Daz and Poser could somehow work together to create either (1) a version of Poser in which Genesis characters work natively, or (2) a version of Daz Studio that uses Poser's interface.

Or.... Dawn and Dusk 2.

No pressure on the developers :)

I do get the distinct impression that they're enjoying working on da2. The sick puppies :p

I'm actually surprised that Poser users didn't take up Dawn more quickly for those who are bringing Genesis into Poser especially. Dawn has a poser version and less hassle using her. My biggest issue in Poser is using clothing with morph which has gotten easier but still needs work and the dynamics which I find much easier in DS.

Here are some comparisons I did a couple of years back. Both wearing same items one is Dawn and the other is Genesis3F

Both characters use the Genesis platform and to my mind both work well. They each have their little quirks. The main reason most people go for Genesis is availability of accessories to use in my opinion.

Definitely .. Dawn 2 unimesh is just perfect , no limitations I believe the issue in Poser is that people need use external scripts for everything and add on software to make things going on and create , it is not straight out the box, too many figures and each of them with different way of working . Too frustrated . That why I prefer Dawn. because I can do everything in one spot and convert thing to every platform I want without the need of external scripts and software , and since I use both programs it is my preferred choice .

BTW working on a chimp for Dawn 2 unimesh , it going to be available here at Rendo as well after the Official release by Hivewire and 100 other cool stuff.

thoennes posted at 8:14AM Wed, 19 May 2021 - #4417959

Or.... Dawn and Dusk 2.

No pressure on the developers :)

I do get the distinct impression that they're enjoying working on da2. The sick puppies :p

Just love your chimp!

Uhm... holy &#%$!!!

This could go a long way to enabling that feature request hanging around since Poser 1: the "make art" button. iirc (and I don't), it reads your imagination, and automatically creates a 3d scene that renders to a 2d image that perfectly captures what you're imagining. I think someone suggested it needed a "filter pron" checkbox, but that someone clearly has issues. It will rely on hyper-mesh technology (4d meshes) and quantum nodes (1 single qnode is able to do everything possible at the same instant). 2 inputs: waveformCollapse and ImaginaryImage. The problem was difficulty in synchronizing those two inputs into a meaningful output. Or you have to have a quantum display which is on Apple's roadmap, but will be proprietary and too expensive for anyone. That's not even including the stand! (it holds the monitor at every position at the same time)

In any case, that feature request pre-dates my Poser experience (I started at 4).

gwp posted at 9:59AM Mon, 21 June 2021 - #4417846

As a long-time Poser user (almost 20 years!) who has started using Daz Studio simply to be able to use Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 characters natively, i.e. without using complicated procedures to get individual Genesis 3 or 8 characters into Poser, I have to agree with the statement that Poser has the best software and Daz Studio has the best characters and items for them. I find Daz Studio extremely frustrating to work with because to me every step is so much more complicated than in Poser and it is rather difficult to find things in the Daz libraries, but the renders I get with Genesis 8 characters and the Iray render engine are far better than my renders of Poser characters (in Poser 11). I addition, the amount of 3rd party support for Poser characters is far, far less than for Genesis ones and getting worse. My dream - which I fear will never come true - is that Daz and Poser could somehow work together to create either (1) a version of Poser in which Genesis characters work natively, or (2) a version of Daz Studio that uses Poser's interface.

In order to make your dream come true, either Poser or DS would have to become more like the other. DS was once more like Poser, but it diverged in order to make things work the way they wanted it to work. I have no qualms with that. If I really wanted to use Genesis that badly, I'd just use DS. And yes, I've been using Poser since version 2 although, version 1 was still on the market when I found it.

ChromeStar posted at 10:07AM Mon, 21 June 2021 - #4415266

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

I'm curious, what are the problems you've found with Dawn and Dusk?

Every time I see these talks of Poser dying off I just think "Ah crap! I really need to hurry up and make something cool with Poser!"

Its kinda sad for the content side in general, but as an animation tool, Poser is friggn awesome. You just have to create your own content or setup content from elsewhere. As long as it can be turned into an obj, it can be in Poser. Just takes a bit of time and work. Its actually much easier to rig in Poser than fully featured 3D apps. (still a pain) This is a regular part of the process for any 3D stuff so im not thrown off at all by lack of content. Though I never started using Poser for the content so maybe im just a weirdo,

ShaneNewville posted at 7:52PM Fri, 23 July 2021 - #4423711

Every time I see these talks of Poser dying off I just think "Ah crap! I really need to hurry up and make something cool with Poser!"

Its kinda sad for the content side in general, but as an animation tool, Poser is friggn awesome. You just have to create your own content or setup content from elsewhere. As long as it can be turned into an obj, it can be in Poser. Just takes a bit of time and work. Its actually much easier to rig in Poser than fully featured 3D apps. (still a pain) This is a regular part of the process for any 3D stuff so im not thrown off at all by lack of content. Though I never started using Poser for the content so maybe im just a weirdo,

People have been predicting the inevitable end of Poser since 2009. It is now 2021, and Poser is still here. It's ironic that it has been somewhat displaced by software that was created to replace it if it ever DID fold.

Not sure when I started Poser. I remember Maya Doll when it first came out and Vicky Buster. I hung around for awhile after V4 and G3 then took a very long break. I came back and decided to try Daz with G3 and G8. Browse Renderosity and compare the content then browse Daz and compare the content. I really see no need to describe what common sense should tell you. I'm not even going to tell you which I decided to use. Did I go back to Poser or stay with Daz? Browse content like Dragons and Fantasy monsters. Browse Sci Fi environment and clothing. Browse character morphs and skin textures. Then come back and tell me what I use.

Poser makes it hard to stay…, if you like more versatile figures with more options! My priorities changed from using Studio for conversations to poser, to using poser for making things for Studio. With other words, the longer I used studio to convert sceneries and objects to Poser the more I learned the Studio interface and finally, I realized that I spend to much time to convert things.

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

I'm curious, what are the problems you've found with Dawn and Dusk?

You know, I'm still waiting for someone to answer this question...

I like the 'look & feel' of Poser, even if many of the facilities seem too arcane to grok. I often have the Poser manual open on my fourth (!!) display yet, even so...

My CGI background is 'sorta-CAD'. I used P3 then P4 to add posable figures to rooms / sets / scenes exported from CAD and its twinned 'Home Design' program. Now, is mostly the other way around. I use CAD to tweak / trawl sets and props meant for Poser or DS...

Though DS and Blender UIs give me a prompt migraine, I often grab budget or free DS props / scenes from eg DAZ or Rendo. Some may be ripped by exporting from DS as OBJ+MTL, others by converting the DUF or DSF with ($$) DSF Toolkit. ( DUF un-zips to  'un-typed' DSF.)

I'm in awe of DS' astonishing Gen-8 figures and their wardrobes but, just a couple of those, and you approach Poser's up-front cost...

I'd like to be able to use DS figures in Poser, especially the monsters. Sadly, the DSON issues and, yes, the DS DRM system suggest there's no current solution short of figure re-rigging. Which, to put it politely, is non-trivial...

Another point: My PoserPro_11.3 happily imports 'un-rigged' FBX models, but 'open source' rigged figures, such as via Blender or DS, do not fully conform to Autodesk format. Results range from 'mildly posable with care' via  'flock of sub-rigs'  to 'splat'. The honourable exception is 'Rigged in Maya', which seems to work flawlessly. Of course, given Maya's 'seat price', I must wonder if that licences the authentic FBX SDK...

If Poser can reliably import 'open source' rigged FBX, it opens access to a lot of DS figures without resort to DSON or DS DRM. Down-side, it also opens floodgates to SFM, XPS, PMX etc etc and their potential zoo of game, MMD / TDA etc DRM issues.

I'm no 'Insider', but must wonder if Rendo / Bondware's lawyers have glimpsed Salties and/or shark-fins, cautioned, "Stay Out Of The Water !!"

Um, there's also the 'Make Human' FBX figure format, which again uses 'open source' FBX I/O but, IIRC, a different rig to either DS or Blender. Being able to grab such figures as NPCs and  'scene extras' would be handy...

FWIW, I'm currently on 11.3, but planning to upgrade to 12 this Autumn. I've a lot of Rendo points to put towards it...

Tangential: Please may we have an 'All Version' forum for Network Rendering ?? I realised was cheaper and more future-resistant to build a network-render 'Box' than to significantly upgrade either of this PCs twin GPU cards, So I did...

NikKelly have you ever used Autodesk's free FBX Conversion tool? It's old but it happily converts almost anything I have thrown at it into something usefull. Don't know about those mmk files or game rips. I don't do those.

This thread has been on my to do list. I've come back to say I am not using Poser any longer.  I could still be using the same old Poser characters, but my fascination with newer and  better technology continues to grow - this is pretty normal for me.  The new Poser release pretty much convinced me - I was counter productive. I am not using DAZ Studio, per se, but I am exporting characters from DAZ to Blender using this wonderful tool:

 https://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/p/daz-importer-version-16.html

I had been dabbling with Blender for a while, but this last January during pandemic I made it a goal to learn to use it to reproduce what I had been doing in Poser: make comics.  What I found was pretty awesome.  It is more complicated to use, no question. But working in it is so much better than Poser (which is so much better than DAZ).  It is just so stable compared to the nightmare I was undergoing with Poser.  And it has tons of active investment to improve it. Three periodic releases (every two years I think), with a very stable Long Term Support release after that.

One of the reasons I came back was to say that adopting DAZ formats is not the answer. It is just keeping up with the Joneses.  There are better formats, Armature Rigs, etc. that DAZ is trying to keep up with.  Poser is behind all of them.  This may be a calculated strategy: keep Poser simple for beginners.  But if that is true, it will be natural for users to upgrade off of Poser. 

My suggestion is to try to keep up with Blender, and create compatibility with Blender formats.  Almost all of Blender's formats are industry standards.  If Poser can create an easy to use Blender, it would allow DAZ to keep churning out characters and you could import them alá Blender.

Just been reading through a few similar threads and driven to throw in my 2 cents, given that, like many others, I’ve spent a fair sum over the years.

For me, the Poser interface has always been more Mac-like to use and so I preferred it to DS, plus DS hardly ran on the Macs I had, but Poser, in its current state is end-of-life (for me) because it is not written to work well on current Macs and their new OSs.

It is now slower than the hacked DS for Big Sur, version 4.15.0.30, not that DS doesn’t crash of course, but at the moment DS is just quicker to use and render quality seems sharper. Until I see an upgrade to P12 that shows equivalent speed improvements, I shall continue to use DS (ignoring the fact the Cloth Room is faster than dForce).

SSCHNEEW is right imho when he mutes Poser has had its day. 

I think it should be rewritten from the ground up to make use of Blender, Unreal, and external renderers like Radeon ProRender and Eevee. Why play catch-up when you can leap-frog?

You have great Artists and Content Creators, like Mech4D, making awesome stuff for Poser, but at the end of the day I think a lot of people would like to see Genesis usable in Poser for the simple reason it looks anatomically better, bends better, and there is a plethora of exceptional content.

A lot of programmes open up MS Word and Adobe PS files without seemingly breeching copyright issues so why can’t Poser use duf files? A revamped Poser should be able to bring in DS figures for use in Poser without Daz having to write a DSON like module. 

If you look at the Daz development path and its desire to integrate with the likes of Blender, Unreal and Unity… that would suggest the way to go for both Poser users and content creators. 

Greater flexibility and compatibility makes for a dynamic market, not isolationism… Make the Dawn figures useable in DS too… why should creators have to sell to a restricted market? 

Or… is it the end as some have said? La Femme was another patch…. Blackhearted’s own GND was better, again imho. 

A couple of renders below, both with one single spot light on a black background, one Poser, one DS. The DS took a third of the time to render on the CPU… Both are with textures as they come so they are both with bump map flaws… I won’t say which is which… though the clothing is a clue.

I think what we can take away from this is...

There are obviously copyright issues. It is risky for any business to be too dependent on any other business so that is not the way forward.

Great figures are crucial. Content being created is also crucial and dependent on how much people like the figures.

The best idea I have seen in this thread is the one about a subscription model for Poser. Yes! Lower the bar for entry. Why not a rent-to-buy option even? :)

I caused mild consternation on another Rendo thread by daring to suggest that Gen' figures + textures and then their clothing might be dynamically fitted to Poser 'carrier' figures...

( If suitably morphed... )

Isn't this what 'dynamic' fitting does with an 'OBJ' garment ? As you would with eg a pant-suit ?? Now with a second pass to load / fit the clothing ...

Even if each pass needs 'many' iterations, it's like yet-another test-render:  when comes right, yay ! Solved !!

Uses a facility built in to Poser, does not use DSON, requires legitimate acquisition of DS figures / wardrobes etc ??

So, who is familiar enough with dynamic clothing etc to take a shot  ??

Here is Brielle, an Aiko3 character, wearing a G8, dFormable top, exported as an obj from DS to Poser
I had to scale it down because the poor Brielle is really smaller than the standard G8, briefly posed using the standard T-pose on Brielle, and I let the cloth room do the job. Her left hand is holding the left part of the cloth to avoid a nip slip
Most of the time, as it's Poser12, and thus rendered using Cycles, I don't care about the mat settings, I only need the diffuse/bump maps (most of the time but not each time)

For pants, you will have to mange the different parts, such as a constrained zone near the belt area, etc... But that's doable