Poser (and Renderosity) are at a crossroads. A lot of us are elders now, we are not young. (Waves at Larry W.!) I just celebrated my 66th birthday, and am really amazed that I made it this far in Life. My injuries from work accidents, a car wreck, didn't put me under. My Cancer didn't kill me. But my Diabetes is honestly eating me alive, and that's just dreadful. I celebrated my birthday by building a new computer, and put it all inside my now 15 year old ATX case. Hey, it works a treat!
WHILE it was down and I was using my various smart phones, tablets and laptop to gather info and files on the fly, I came to a startling and clear image that really saddens me. I will skip the long diatribe and litany of data I collated to come to this conclusion, but by now, it is obvious to the entire world around us, but not to the inwardly involved here. It is simply this: IF POSER is not given the ability to read and use the DAZ "format", and to be able to USE up through the Genesis 8 Figures, it will simply dwindle into obscurity. I do not want to see this, but I truly believe now that the very person controlling the future OF Poser does. Politics stink. I want Poser to continue and thrive. It CAN, but not without a big dose of Popeye Spinach! That 'spinach' is the module needed to USE the DUF and Genesis 8, freely. The LaFemme/L'Homme Figures are great, PE is great, Maisie is fine, ALL are good Figures. But limited. LESS limited is the Genesis 8 Figure. And don't cajole me into trying the system of loading G8 into PP 2014 and PP 11. I KNOW and DO that. One damn article at a time. Not "freely using" by ANY means. And I DO mean Poser has to be able to FREELY use the DAZ format and the various file types that encompasses, but especially the Genesis 8 Figure. The Renderosity I know and have been a stolid customer of for a lot of years is ceasing to exist. It is swiftly becoming a DAZ ONLY site too. Various people have cited the need to change just to make a profit. Well well, how about that. POSER has to change as well. There is no other option, because the PEOPLE you need to buy and use Poser simply don't. DS isn't easier to use, but the content and styles it now uses that Poser cannot make the difference. -Do NOT moderate this post. If it is, this text will be cast worldwide..

I am Michael McCollum, THE McGrandpa. just another nobody that happens to love Poser.

My 66th Birthday PC Build (July 1, 2020) : named BadMoonRYZEN!, W10Pro x64, Octal Core RYZEN7 X3700 4.05 GHz, 64GB DDR4 RAM, GeForce RTX 3060 - 12GB GDDR6, PP2014, PP 11, P12, PS-CS4 Extended & Vue 2024.

McG.

If you want Genesis 8, go use Daz Studio. And stay there.

Learn the Secrets of Poser 11 and Line-art Filters.

That's rather harsh.

As I said, I want to use DAZ content in Poser. Period.

McG.

DAZ will not allow that Poser can read DAZ files. Under no circumstances. All DAZ has to do is sit back and wait for Poser to die. And probably Rendo with it.

Being able to use DAZ content in Poser would be ideal but Poser needs more content in general. There's currently no incentive for someone just getting into the hobby to pay $100-$200 on Poser 11 when DAZ is free and has way more content available for it. There's also currently no real incentive for vendors to create content for Poser. The only reason I've stuck around so long is because I'm too stubborn to learn a new program.

adp001 posted at 6:06PM Sun, 06 September 2020 - #4398779

"DAZ will not allow that Poser can read DAZ files. Under no circumstances."

Is this an actual fact or just an assumption? Is DAZ legally preventing Renderosity from using .duf files in Poser?

It appears to be an aspersion to me.

McG.

Thats rather harsh

Reality often is.?

Harty Bart is correct.

leave the little comfort bubble of the poserverse and you can have free access to the"golden unicorn" or stay in the bubble and be happy that bondware has saved poser from oblivion.?

DAZ will not allow that Poser >can read DAZ files. Under no >circumstances

This is complete fiction.?

Anyone can make a plugin that reads the .duf format

A single developer named Thomas larson did for Blender with his FREE "Diffeomorphic" plugin that loads ALL genesis models and poses& body animation as well as props directly from your Daz content library.

it is far superior to Daz's official So-called " Blender bridge" that only export the G8 Figures and nothing else

My website

YouTube Channel

I refuse the slavery of the DAZ-verse and their pervasive content manglement system and the DAZ Install Mangler that are REQUIRED FOR DS TO OPERATE (DS must LOG IN or load, import and other functions are inoperable). I am so sorry for you trapped DS users, especially the long time users that have no inkling this statement is true.
So I won't be replying any further. I didn't start the thread to turn into a mud slinging contest. I did start it to state what I believe a real NEED for Poser and I stand on it still.

McG.

and the DAZ Install Mangler that are REQUIRED FOR DS TO OPERATE (DS must LOG IN or load, import and other functions are inoperable). I am so sorry for you trapped DS users, especially the long time users that have no >inkling this statement is true.

More fiction.?

Before I left the Daz Eco-system For Iclone/CC3 I created ALL of my own Clothing content and still do for the CC3 figures?

Sure the DS install manager was running idle in the background in case I wanted to buy/Install something But my main production machines are air gapped from the internet so I cant install from the DS install manager anyway

I ran DS 4.8 for four years with no internet on that particular PC and My new 2020 PC with DS 4.12 is not connected to the internet either?

Poser 11 has to regularly connect to the internet yes?? so paying $200 USD plus mandatory internet service is not "Slavery" ?

Poser does not need genesis 8.... you guys have LF&LH ..be grateful to Bondware.?

My website

YouTube Channel

McGrandpa posted at 6:29PM Mon, 07 September 2020 - #4398857

I refuse the slavery of the DAZ-verse and their pervasive content manglement system and the DAZ Install Mangler that are REQUIRED FOR DS TO OPERATE (DS must LOG IN or load, import and other functions are inoperable).

WHAT?!?! That must be something new, because it wasn't necessary when DIM was first created. I know because back when I was still using DS, I was on the DIM beta team, and that was NOT an option. Then again, I came back to Poser and stopped updating my DS once DS 4.0 Pro was introduced, so this must be something with the newer versions of DS, because it was not done back then.

I only use DIM, and only ever used DIM, except when beta testing, for downloading because I can download a bunch of files at once. But I ALWAYS manually installed my products from DAZ. It's always been my preferred method of installing 3D content, but for me DIM was good for downloading, because I could set it up, and then walk away to do something else until it was finished downloading. I never load it up for any other reason.

Oh wait, now I get it . . . it's not DIM, it's the newer DAZCentral that must be doing this. That IS new, so that's why I never saw anything like that.

_______________

OK . . . Where's my chocolate?

Butterfly Dezignz

Sorry, I started this thread for a purpose, will leave this now to that purpose. the need POSER has, for its survival.

If I could do it, I would LOCK this thread with that first post, and delete the rest. But I am not a moderator, nor anything but a LONG standing customer and occasional PITA.

Jenn Blake, I insist you do THAT for the sake of Poser. LOCK this thread with only the original post showing. Thank you.

McG.

Sure that is one solution, even though I don't think it's the optimal solution. I wish that these companies would support each other rather than "fighting", but let's be honest the chance of that happening is pretty slim.

To be honest, I think people should spend less time pointing fingers at Daz, and instead point them at Poser. Hardly anything have been done by them to compete against Daz when it comes to content, but rather they have relied on them supplying the main characters for them, for a long time. If you look at the last many releases, Poser have pretty much released with the same old characters since Poser 4 or 5? They then added some new characters, which were pretty buggy and nowhere near the standard that people expect from characters. So not only do the majority of people not find them attractive, but when they at the same time are not really working correctly, you are going to have a disaster, because people won't use them, content creators won't care to make stuff for them, which mean that the characters are pretty much dead on arrival.

And honestly, the only one you can blame for this is those that makes Poser, that they apparently, for whatever unknown reason, don't really understand how important it is, that characters they release meet or even surpass people's expectations. If they don't, people simply won't care about them.

There are so many talented people capable of creating realistic 3d humans, I simply don't believe that they can't hire someone to make one.

Hossein Diba is a very talented 3D character artist, currently working as Lead Character sculptor at WWE.

This beautiful 3D fan art of Daenerys Targaryen the Khaleesi by Baolang Zhang is a real time character rendered in Unreal Engine 4.

This spot-on 3D likeness model of actress Kristen Steward was created by Hyun Kyung using Zbrush and 3ds Max and rendered in Vray.

3D artist Dan Roarty, lead character artist at Microsoft, created this hyper realistic model of his grandmother. Dan used Maya to create the basic shape then sculpted and textured Nana in Mubox, gave her hair using Shave and a Haircut and rendered her in Vray. All the specular maps were created using a the Knald software.

Dan Roarty has worked for LucasArts on Star Wars, as well as for Crystal Dynamics where he and Kam Yu created the new Lara Croft character for the ‘Rise of the Tomb Raider’.

It took me 5 minutes to find these, it can't be so difficult to contact someone that are extremely good at character design and pay them to make a character. Instead of them keep being a step behind Daz and either trying to rely on their characters or releasing half buggy unattractive characters, combined with outdated ones that are 10 or 15 years old, or how old they are? Its not going to cut it.

McGrandpa posted at 5:24AM Tue, 08 September 2020 - #4398894

Sorry, I started this thread for a purpose, will leave this now to that purpose. the need POSER has, for its survival.

If I could do it, I would LOCK this thread with that first post, and delete the rest. But I am not a moderator, nor anything but a LONG standing customer and occasional PITA.

Jenn Blake, I insist you do THAT for the sake of Poser. LOCK this thread with only the original post showing. Thank you.

Don't think you should lock it. People will always complain and try to defend Poser against Daz, it have been like that for very long. It need to be possible to discuss these things in a mature manner. Just ignore those people that can't be constructive.

Jenn Blake, I insist you do THAT for the sake of Poser. LOCK this thread with only the original post showing. Thank you.

McG.

Make you youtube video of your rant and select "do not not allow comments"

It wont get you any closer to native genesis 8 support in poser but at least you wont have to read people explain to you why your canting demand is NEVER going happen.?

Bondware has already invested the future of poser figure Dev in LF&LH.

End of story ?

if LF&LH are not up to your standards or lack content etc etc use V4/M4.

or use the Willdial script to force fit a G3/8 into poser or some other partial solution

All of the other third party figures are dead or dying (or aborted after six years of development in the case of "venus & Orion" by Ambient shade)

These are your only options if you refuse to venture out of the poser comfort bubble and use another program such as Daz studio or Reallusion CC3 which converts ALL genesis(1,2,3,8) figures to native Iclone Avatars?

My website

YouTube Channel

Poser 11 has to regularly connect to the internet yes?? so paying $200 USD plus mandatory internet service is not "Slavery" ?

yes, in fact it's a real problem !

Well, we need to see what Poser12 is like before we can throw too much mud at Poser/Bondware, but it would be good if we had at least an inkling that Poser12 was in avid development and new things would be coming soon in addition to bug-fixes.

Heck, why not have a system similar to that which Unity has for users to report issues and vote for feature requests. Why not a public roadmap? Or a declaration of intent for the focus of the future of Poser? I've kind of almost stopped using Poser as I personally do not believe Bondware will make a Mac version of Poser12, especially an Apple Silicon / ARM version.

Poser has unfortunately always been full of bugs. I spent many months using Poser in the 1990s creating many animations and compositing them in After Effects. Some of the bugs present then are still present!

Daz3D has the "adult" renderers on board down with the best "adult" content and those users I suspect will account for a lot of content purchases. My personal main area of interest is primarily horror (zombies etc) and I have to admit the genesis content available in those types of genres is far better than Poser content.

There's a lot of nice content for Daz3D and most people would rather not pay for a program. It's the world we live in. Especially given that Poser comes with so much ancient low-quality content. Software is all free or subscription-based, just look at mobile gaming, games are free but you have to buy in-game content: this is the scenario that Daz saw coming and took advantage of.

I find Daz3D a horrible program to use, so have barely touched it given Poser is so intuitive. I'm the sort of person who would rather pay for a better program but I feel rather alone with that preference.

Maybe Bondware should pay someone to create a duf plugin if they can't do it themselves. It's either chase genesis compatibility (which I can't see happening) or carve out their own niche, but what is that niche without content? As it stands Poser needs to leap-frog DAZ somehow to survive. I suspect Bondware doesn't have pockets deep enough to fund enough content-creators to create content for the newer Poser figures to sustain Poser long term.

Instead of Genesis/Duf support, one thing that could make a massive difference for Poser would be the ability to re-use V4 content on LF (skin textures and clothes/props). However, this would need to work in conjunction with a system that auto fits skins, clothes and props to the underlying figure with no poke-through ever. ever.

Poser has a history of implementing half decent features that get neglected and unused as they are not as easy to use as the original base Poser program. e.g. the Hair room, why did this not ship with a host of templates hairstyles set to go? the animation features; has anyone tried to make their own walk or crawl cycle themselves manually in Poser? Or a fight sequence?

Now if Poser12 had a new system where a figure had actual bones, cartilage, muscles, and skin on top etc. so muscles could flex and ripple, skin could be layered and tear, lips could tremble, tears could fill eyes, and blood could flow from wounds all with the hyper-realism and the ease of use Poser has always had then we might be in business, but thinking a slightly better version of the technology that has been out for decades will see Poser keep kind-of working for an ever-dwindling audience in amateur circles.

The newsletters that get sent out "showcase" what can only be termed as work that wouldn't have impressed in the 1990s.

Poser is capable of lovely renders, I particularly used to like using the Reality plugin as it had such good results with minimal fuss or learning curve. Bondware should show-case good work in their newsletters, but I guess it's too few and far between.

Nice to see a newsletter about Poser12 arrive today, hoping for more info soon.

This is just 'general input', my 2p... I often found myself thinking "I would have liked figures to be a little simpler, while still retaining the creativity".

Don't get me wrong - I liked Poser. This is not a criticism, at all. Poser and Daz (and iClone, and Blender etc.) are all good in their ways. But my brain can't keep up with all the massive amounts of menus and options. I have a full time job and when I'm finished in the evening, the day is over.

What I really enjoyed in PPro 2014 was making (a few) comics. I wasn't efficient, but the comics rendering was really cool. Street scenes were difficult since they involve many figures.

Would have been nice to have a SIMPLE "clothes creator" (and simpler figures, maybe more like the Second Life avatars or even The Sims. These advanced near-photorealistic images are very impressive, but I'd like to do more storywriting. So, simpler figures, freely posable in a local 3D space would have been great – without being forced to "play a game" (Sims) or "have an online account in a virtual world" (SL) or "first learning Blender" (ouch!) ... or "first saving up for 3DSMax AND becoming an expert in 3DSMax" (ouch again) ...

The type of "simpler" offline 3D scene builder/3D comic storyboard software I'm imagining is not likely to materialize. Poser was among the best among the ones that were available. It was still complex (for me), but just about workable.

I'll go throw a frisbee for my dog now. In the real universe. And practice my pen and paper drawing skills.

cheers... :)

I've been a Poser owner since 1999. I strayed away from Poser for a few years; I returned when Bondware bought Poser. I still have Poser 10, and am waiting for a good reason to upgrade. Now we're awaiting Poser Pro 12. For me, DAZ always provided the necessary content to make Poser usable or desirable. Bondware, or someone, needs to ramp up the Poser content in order to make Poser worth my investment.

My 2c. Poser is my addiction that I can't seem to shake, but it is the Daz models that do it for me. If I hadn't have had M4, I don't think I would have stuck around. I don't have the capacity to model (well), and I don't have the patience to rig. I like the simplicity of composing and rendering pre-formed content. I've moved on to G1 and G2 simply for variety since they come with operational baggage in Poser. I've purchased LH&LF to support the artists, but frankly don't like them. From day 1 I came to realize that none of the Poser models did what I wanted, but the Daz models did. Since then I've slowly acquired a massive collection of content, which even on massive sale is certainly more than the license cost of Poser. I've considered moving to Daz Studio a number of times, I've tried to use Blender, but the simplicity of Poser keeps me using it to accomplish my small goals. I will certainly buy Poser in October, again to support the team, but I continue to doubt myself. Is there an easier workflow using those other tools with the content that I like? If I invest time in a new workflow and someone's free-ware, will the rug be pulled out from under me later?

McGrandpa writes, "It is simply this: IF POSER is not given the ability to read and use the DAZ "format", and to be able to USE up through the Genesis 8 Figures, it will simply dwindle into obscurity. "

This seems to be a widely held opinion. Having discussed this a few places, best I can tell, it's not going to happen so....

I was encouraged to discover this model in the free section of the forum yesterday:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2936022

I'm hardly an expert on such things, but to this Poser newbie this model seems a quality product. It seems professional constructed, everything you need is nicely organized all in one place, installs easily and correctly (even for me!) and is otherwise generally excellent.

If I owned Poser I would hire this artist to create a dozen new characters for the next version of Poser, which to my newbie eyes seems generally superior to all the characters currently shipping with Poser. (La Femme/Homme are perhaps more technically sophisticated?)

Point being, instead of wringing our hands about Daz content, perhaps a better solution is to identify the best artists and put them on the Poser payroll. To the degree Poser depends on Daz it's future will always be uncertain. Seems wiser to forget about Daz and focus on developing Poser characters that the market finds compelling.

Why not just use Daz where the most popular content already exists? Because, imho, Daz software stinks, it's not even close to Poser in terms of user friendliness. Same for the company. I wasted 3-4 month trying to animate in Daz. I accomplished more in the first few days in Poser.

There's no law of nature which prevents Poser characters from being just as good or better than Daz characters. Rendo just needs to find and hire the best artists. Hopefully that project is already underway.

A user writes, " There's currently no incentive for someone just getting into the hobby to pay $100-$200 on Poser 11 when DAZ is free and has way more content available for it."

As someone who fits the description of a new user, my incentive to spend $80 on Poser instead of continuing to use Daz for free is that Poser is much better software.

One solution to this problem is for members to shift our focus to animation, where Poser really shines, blowing Daz out of the water. If we clog this site with animation galleries then new users will naturally want to know how they can do that too.

And if they try Daz animation like I did, they will soon discover Daz is not the animation solution. And if they look at pro level software options for animation, they will soon discover that such options are VERY expensive.

What good is having "better software," if you can't get better content. The Poser attitude seems to be that Victoria 4 is all we need.

As I understand it, Daz has the best content and Poser has the best software, so there's no obvious solution.

I tried Daz software, and am done with that. I would like to use the latest Daz content in Poser, but so far that doesn't seem too likely. So...

For now I'm making myself happy with existing Poser content. This is probably easier for me as I'm new to Poser and thus more easily satisfied. The free character I posted about above seems pretty darn good, so I'll work with that for awhile. I really don't have huge complaints with the other characters either. Over the longer run, I assume that Rendo sees everything we see about the content situation and I hope they are willing and able to invest in creating some more compelling content.

This might help? If I understand correctly (I may not) most Daz and Poser users are not animating their characters. Especially in Poser, that seems a shame. Point being, if the characters were actually doing something interesting, and not just standing still, perhaps the aesthetic quality of the characters would be of somewhat less importance?

Perhaps I'll become more demanding about image quality once I master animation, which isn't going to happen any time soon. It's remarkably easy to animate in Poser, but not remarkably easy to do quality animation anywhere.

I had Friday off and I spent the weekend playing around with 1) DAZ, 2) Thomas Larson's DAZ to Blender importer, then 3) Blender armature, posing, materials, and rendering. I really don't like DAZ - but this appears to be a preference. I came across more than one forum where they trash Poser and praise DAZ. I think I could get used to DAZ, but it seems limited in comparison to Poser. ( This opinion is probably biased. ) Blender on the other hand is pretty incredible - but sooo complex. I spent hours watching videos explaining how to use the DAZ and Blender interfaces. I spent at least the same amount of time fighting with DAZ's stupid content manager (for all of Poser's library issues, DAZ makes them seem quite tolerable). I still haven't spent enough time to figure out how to use Blender's library/linking method of sharing characters, props, and materials. I didn't waste any time with DAZ renders, but spent a ton of time converting transported materials to Blender's cycles engine, then fine tuning.

The DAZ converter is pretty incredible and robust on its own. That Thomas Larson wrote and donated this freeware is quite remarkable. It allows you to export a DAZ scene (character or props), then import them into Blender along with the rig/armature. Then there are tons of additional import options for morphs, etc. It sounds great, but the complexity of converting them to the "Blender way" is very difficult. In doing this, I had to recognize the Herculean efforts of the Poser or DAZ programmers to make things work between the two software packages. It's not just getting bone and morph weights ported correctly. A simple smile is a combination of facial morphs and bone movements, which all have to be tied together - which is highly custom to the software you are using. I haven't explored Thomas' work enough to see if he has also ported that complexity. For my experiment I only used simple facial morphs. I couldn't get Blender's armature/bones to effectively morph my character consistently (just ignorance of how it works/its complexity). In addition, (I believe that) Blender has no concept of conforming clothes. You could manually rig all the clothes' bones to be constrained by the figure's bones, but I think it is expected that you bake down your clothes into a single character (Like what they did in Poser Pro Game Dev Version). Thomas has built in options for this and has a blog on mesh simplification, so he is probably thinking along these lines and targeting efficiencies for his final output.

I love the filmic color management of Blenders cycles engine. It is very realistic lighting with high dynamic range. (Watch this video from Blender Guru for an explanation.) So I explored porting directly from Poser to Blender to use the cycles engine there. This is possible, but with a lot of work. The alembic format ports meshes efficiently, but you need a way to apply sets of blender materials once you pull them up in Blender. This solves some things, using Poser for its strengths in posing and managing complex morphs and rigs, but presents problems with setting up some python scripts to manage materials efficiently. And you still are limited by characters available in Poser.

So, I'm waiting for a month to see what the Poser guys do with the latest cycles engine. If they include Filmic-log color management, it would certainly eliminate any current need for me to use Blender. On the other hand, if I could learn this much Blender in a weekend perhaps its worth the effort to go all-in. Moving content would be a pain, and would certainly be a gradual effort. However, there is a thriving Blender community (more than thriving) and way more content out there to have fun with.

Justin-based character from Genesis series sample attached. Very simple Blender lighting, and a quick run through to tune materials, and a few ported facial morphs.

aaron.blend.png

@Bababozo

Poser's animation tool set has not been functionally updated in nearly 20 years but at least its tools( weak as they are) are native to the program.

Daz leased their graphmate/keymate/aniMate plugins from a company that no longer exists and show no interest in updating them and their new so called IK system is a cruel joke.?

The Thomas Larsons "Diffeomorphic"exporter is great for the still render portrait/pinup crowd to render in Blender cycles but does not export morph based animation to Blender thus offers no advantage over rendering your still render portraits/pinups in Daz Iray ?

Both Poser and Daz studio are far inferior to,Renderosity marketplace vendor's, Reallusion with their Iclone Pro software, and Reallusions Character creator 3 software is a better character system than Daz studio as it has superior clothing rigging system for vendors ?

IMHO anyone truly serious about REALTIME Character animation and quality REALTIME rendering and content creation, should be looking at both Iclone/CC3 & Blender.

I am a clothing content creator & animated filmmaker.

I recently created a 10 minute video tutorial showing how well Iclone/CC3 and Blender work together.

https://youtu.be/igv--GMiUq4

All of the Character clothing armor& weapons in this video were created in Blender for the Iclone CC3 base figures. https://youtu.be/igv--GMiUq4

screen cap graph.JPG

My website

YouTube Channel

IClone is an interesting option. FWIW, I see that DAZ has a Blender bridge now, too. https://www.daz3d.com/daz-to-blender-bridge supporting ported armature.

It is interesting that a common denominator here is Blender. With its revamped 2.8 interface (which is now actually understandable), it seems to be picking up more steam than ever.

I just had a look at this thread (I must admit I gave up a short way into it) and I am amazed by the Daz versus Poser flames. Daz is a content seller, that is their business model. There maybe and probably is lots of "politics" behind the scenes but I am not interested. If Poser/Renderosity wanted to code into Poser to read Daz formats and design Poser to use them, why would Daz object, after all, it would mean more content sales. They Give Daz3d away for free so they can sell content. Selling more content suits them. If they can build a bigger customer base why wouldn't they.

Well, I must admit it's nice to know I was wrong about a Mac version of Poser12, I just hope it will support Apple Silicon Macs when they start shipping and in the short term at the very least, Big Sur.

I'm intrigued about the new SuperFly advances.

p.s. yes 3d-mobster, the examples you've shown are what people expect from 3D nowadays. I find even 8k texture maps limiting.

The better solution for WINDOWS users :)

(Of which I'm not. In various VMs, sure. But in my RM? No thank you.)

wolf359 posted at 3:52PM Sat, 31 October 2020 - #4400155

@Bababozo

Poser's animation tool set has not been functionally updated in nearly 20 years but at least its tools( weak as they are) are native to the program.

Daz leased their graphmate/keymate/aniMate plugins from a company that no longer exists and show no interest in updating them and their new so called IK system is a cruel joke.?

The Thomas Larsons "Diffeomorphic"exporter is great for the still render portrait/pinup crowd to render in Blender cycles but does not export morph based animation to Blender thus offers no advantage over rendering your still render portraits/pinups in Daz Iray ?

Both Poser and Daz studio are far inferior to,Renderosity marketplace vendor's, Reallusion with their Iclone Pro software, and Reallusions Character creator 3 software is a better character system than Daz studio as it has superior clothing rigging system for vendors ?

IMHO anyone truly serious about REALTIME Character animation and quality REALTIME rendering and content creation, should be looking at both Iclone/CC3 & Blender.

I am a clothing content creator & animated filmmaker.

I recently created a 10 minute video tutorial showing how well Iclone/CC3 and Blender work together.

https://youtu.be/igv--GMiUq4

All of the Character clothing armor& weapons in this video were created in Blender for the Iclone CC3 base figures. https://youtu.be/igv--GMiUq4

The success of future Poser are not more the figures , I work with both programs and with Poser for the last 22 years. Sadly the rendering quality and material room land behind the banana republic , it is not more the standard and other free softwares offer better and free solutions , the market is huge and it is not going to be better . Proper render engine quality and material room will attract new users as everything is about the visual aspect of the art work, no matter it is cartoon, stylized or realistic . Personally I don't like G8 , for me it stopped at G2-3 and for many others too . The 3D market is sinking If Poser12 bring back the standard for both rendering and materials it gonna help a lot , bringing D|S content not really , and I really did not liked the last idea when it was possible , clumpy and bad . Poser need own true content to be something great again and not hanging or be dependent on other softwares , that's how it gonna be killed I still use poser for a lot of stuff but I stopped rendering with it in 2015 and many great people and companies did the same . You can get your content today everywhere . So I do really have a great expectations with the new version that hopefully bring me back for a full time again , and if it fails, it gonna die soon even if it was for free . The secret of Poser success was in creation , keeping people creative and busy finding amazing new ways to make their art better and share with others to follow, that's how community stays strong and support each other without politics or taking a side . Crossing my fingers and waiting !

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Mec4D typed: " The secret of Poser success was in creation , keeping people creative and busy finding amazing new ways to make their art better and share with others to follow, that's how community stays strong and support each other without politics or taking a side . Crossing my fingers and waiting !"

I agree with your sentence wholeheartedly!

McG.

Everyone has the Pro version now. I see why some users don't want to spend time rigging. But the fact is that you can get most DAZ content to work in Poser with Poser native figures. With head shop and body morphs, for your own personal use, you can recreate any commercial character from any vendor. You can buy Genesis 3/8 clothes and hair for peanuts during DAZ's constant sales, load them piece by piece in DS, export them as obj, and then import them into Poser and rig them for La Femme or whomever. Or, if you stay away from Poser 12, you can import DUF files directly with D3D's DSON Importer python script, pose it to a Poser native figure, go to the fitting room, and create a new Poser cr2. You can use the morph brush on items imported that way. The only things that haven't worked are some dForce and strand-based hairs. (I notice some Daz vendors are going back to rigged hair.) So, if you are truly desperate for Daz content, put in a little more effort and it's yours.

Yes, this has been doable for quite a while now. The BAD part now is I cannot use DS without having that damnable CMS/DIM nastiness RUNNING. So it is not installed. Do we have a usable way to do this NOW, without running DS? I think we will have to get the DSON interpreter for Poser working in P12 to get any of that. Including the Figures we DID get into PP11. With the Genesis 2, Genesis 3 and even Genesis 8 Figures functioning in PP11. The CR2's will load into P12, but are messed up. Non functional. I still believe that the longer term survival of Poser will necessitate Poser being able to USE Genesis through 8, and DAZ content, directly. But a certain 'authority' has stomped all over that idea. It says that "will never happen". That's a damn bad thing to say.

McG.

When you launch DS, you can select "work offline" and you never have to have anything logged into DAZ. All DAZ products have a manual download option. New python means DSON esta muerto in P12.

Let's see if this will help some of you understand the problem with converting DSON

DAZ owns DAZ Studio and the copyrights to that program. Which means they own how the program works.

When Poser 9 came out it lacked one thing that Genesis needs in order to be usable. And that thing is Sub-Division. Poser 9 cannot Sub-Divide a figure.

However when DAZ first released the DSON plug -in for Poser all of a sudden Poser 9 Could Sub-Divide (but only the Genesis figure). Anybody want to take a guess as to why this was now possible? The answer is that the DSON plug-in contains a mini-version of DAZ Studio. Poser is used to send dial commands to the mini-Studio and that program then takes the Genesis mesh and creates a mesh that Poser then displays.

And there is the problem NOBODY but DAZ can write the code for Studio since they own the copyright. Without that code all the neat things you think Genesis can do, it can't. Basically it is fairly simple to write a converter program to take the DAZ files and return them back to OBJ where they came from. The problem is that it is a static OBJ with none of the Bells and Whistles you want it to have.. It is even possible to try and convert the Weight maps, although that can be hard as it will be a best guess and the results will be close at best. However the fancy things like Auto-Fit won't make it. And it is things like this that you want and won't have.

Poser 5, 6, 7, 8, Poser Pro 9 (2012), 10 (2014), 11, 12, 13, 14

I agree with you partially here , DSON is not what everyone wanted to have in first place , it was a second and only choice for DAZ to bring stuff back to Poser , I talk with both software owners and programmers at the time and I know the truth from the first hand and not based on rumors. I will tell you only one thing, former Poser owners decided to make changes in the codes that allowed DSON working in Poser the way it did, that was all they wanted to do for a very good reason for them at that time. The people from yesterday are no more here , we dealing today with a new owners of both software, so I guess it is time to end the old story once and for all and focus on what is now. There is a lot of possibilities to bring Genesis to Poser , but you dealing with patents and copyrights issues , you are not even allowed by law to copy weight maps from Genesis and use it on another Humanoid Figure outside D|S. It is pretty limited , and the truth is that today, only DAZ can decide where they want Genesis to shine, and a little spider told me it will never happen. You can still do your programming and anything you want for personal usage , but once it reach the public you will have lawyers on your neck and they not joking.

Why not making amazing looking figures for Poser ? what is the problem , Genesis8 have the worse texturing jobs and modeling since G3, I understand the technical side of GENESIS system that is not easy to copy and it very good. But I believe once we get micropoly displacement and adaptive subdivision we can do something Poser never saw before , at last on the visual side for now and the progress will continue .

No time to grieve for roses when the forests are burning !

Richard60 posted at 9:43PM Thu, 05 November 2020 - #4403556

Let's see if this will help some of you understand the problem with converting DSON

DAZ owns DAZ Studio and the copyrights to that program. Which means they own how the program works.

When Poser 9 came out it lacked one thing that Genesis needs in order to be usable. And that thing is Sub-Division. Poser 9 cannot Sub-Divide a figure.

However when DAZ first released the DSON plug -in for Poser all of a sudden Poser 9 Could Sub-Divide (but only the Genesis figure). Anybody want to take a guess as to why this was now possible? The answer is that the DSON plug-in contains a mini-version of DAZ Studio. Poser is used to send dial commands to the mini-Studio and that program then takes the Genesis mesh and creates a mesh that Poser then displays.

And there is the problem NOBODY but DAZ can write the code for Studio since they own the copyright. Without that code all the neat things you think Genesis can do, it can't. Basically it is fairly simple to write a converter program to take the DAZ files and return them back to OBJ where they came from. The problem is that it is a static OBJ with none of the Bells and Whistles you want it to have.. It is even possible to try and convert the Weight maps, although that can be hard as it will be a best guess and the results will be close at best. However the fancy things like Auto-Fit won't make it. And it is things like this that you want and won't have.

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Then burn it ALL. Damnable PEOPLE !!!

McG.

DS is unacceptable software. Poser has unacceptable FIGURES. And the Weilders of the SWORDS of Ownership shall ride their steeds into the River of Blood! Yea Let It ALL Burn! DONE

McG.

McG, can you tell me why you think Poser figures are unacceptable for you ? is that the look or rigging or what? Poser never had its original figures , they was from the gecko the work of outsiders, even Dork and Posette was made by early DAZ team before they split from Zygote Personally I don't like the look after the Era of V & M , wrong anatomy or misfit faces and how it bends I don't even care after, and the majority thinks the same I found out that having too unique base figure is not a good idea as it is hard to change it totally using morphs due to exciting topology that focus too much on the specific look from the beginning , it is like a DNA in a family , they looks different but still you can tell they are a family.

But coming back to my question , what's the matter in your opinion ! ?

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Personally, I think La Femme seems to be pretty good, my issue is that there is just much more stuff for Genesis figures and I already invested a lot on those, so even though I'm interested in Poser, it's just not realistic for me to invest as much on stuff for La Femme even if there was the same amount of stuff for her. Honestly, I don't even need the ability to get Genesis figures in Poser, they can just have a system like CC3 which would let me use most of my library while still using Poser native figures.

@Mec4D Thank you. It is so great to read some common sense nowadays. I honestly never understand this Gen to Poser thing. It is now some kind of obsession, no matter how many times they get explained that it is not on the Poser developer to decide if Gen goes into Poser or not. I use Poser since long. I use also DS , have invested a lot in Gen 2-8 products. I invested btw also in V4 a lot and don't even bother my self anymore with her. And people also like to forget how many xtra scripts, morphs from 3rd party creator was needed to make her bend and behave properly. LF is good, all she need is support and some small fixes ( have to admit her hand is awful , especially her thumb ) , but I don't think it is sooo difficult to fix this. And there is Dawn, soon Dawn 2 , which looks very promising .Personally, I am looking forward to what comes next in Poser and LF/Dawn development. And when I have the urge to use Genesis, I open up DS.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

@TheAnimaGemini to tell you the truth I always hated the DSON , working with it, rendering and making products for it . It never worked right for me . There is so much support for Genesis because there are simple way to make the products that supporting it . That attracted the creators. I did not used the new Poser figures yet since I did not upgraded it since Poser pro 2014. I just got the trial for Poser12 the other day and tested some PBR materials to see how it behave and render in SuperFly and the result was very good and very fast rendering and quality .I asked my question because there should be not big deal making Poser figure looking amazing, I was just thinking the rigging and the process may be not as good , hard to tell did not tested yet . I never saw DS or Poser the same way and what is in DS stay in DS or vice versa I think Poser finally moved in the right direction focusing on proper light and materials , other way even if you import Genesis, it will looks bad anyway and who want to pay for this. You wanna bridge ? it will never import the full genesis system into Poser, without all the goodies and tools it is worthless idea and make no sense. DAZ already realized with V2 and M2 that Poser can't do that the way they want it to do, and you can't just mixing codes together of 2 programs , and definitely no more today and will never happen . FBX import is your best friend for now. I understand you guys spent so much founds on the stuff .. and I understand but if you don't let go Genesis , Poser gonna be finish and now is the last bell to make some changes before it become a history of the past for good.

@MazinkaiserDX you got a point here , and very good one , no she don't looks human enough and much out of anatomical proportions on the body and face, I hope I did not offend anybody with this statement as I don't know who made this, same problems was with early figures, there was always something off you can't put your finger on but you just know. Our brain is setup to recognize it so well

My notifications here are still broken , so I may not replying straight away.. still waiting for the fixes

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

@Mec4D Could not agree more.I tested out the DSON , but don't liked it. Heavy , sometimes crashed and the result was not really great. What irritates me in the Poser community is the huge amount of negativeness . While in other communities, like DAZ, Blender, name them all, the new features, upgrades are well taken and where people are excited, make constructive critiques,suggestions, in the Poser community is everything painted dark and negative. I think this is sad. And you are right, if people don't let go Genesis, don't stop with this huge amount of negative comments , Poser will disappear. If they continue to blame vendors because no support anymore for Poser, but in another thread they admit that they will not buy anything new for Poser , LF/LH because huge runtimes with old stuff, this makes to me no sense. Why should vendors create stuff when people don't buy? Take the risk that maybe??? they will have good sales, but probably not. If the Poser community want that Poser survive, they will have to change their way of thinking. Positive, constructive critics, suggestions are always welcome. But not this hate and fury.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

@TheAnimaGemini exactly I can morph any Dawn or LF figure into anything I want even into any Genesis figure of my choice( the last only for personal usage) .. and I don't believe that is the issue, or maybe I am wrong , we will see soon enough .. ;)

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

ronaldknights posted at 5:41AM Sun, 15 November 2020 - #4399779

What good is having "better software," if you can't get better content. The Poser attitude seems to be that Victoria 4 is all we need. Other figures have come out and people do use them.

No, that appears to be YOUR attitude. I stopped using V4 almost 10 years ago. So did most people.

McGrandpa posted at 5:47AM Sun, 15 November 2020 - #4403564

DS is unacceptable software. Poser has unacceptable FIGURES. And the Weilders of the SWORDS of Ownership shall ride their steeds into the River of Blood! Yea Let It ALL Burn! DONE

Mc Grandpa, I know you've been around for a minute or two playing with Poser, but since it does seem that Poser is not going to change into DS to allow Genesis to work natively, which it would have to do, why not give the next best thing advice on how the Poser figures that are coming out could be made better??? What is it that they're missing that you wish they had?

MazinkaiserDX posted at 5:51AM Sun, 15 November 2020 - #4403649

Personally, I think La Femme seems to be pretty good, my issue is that there is just much more stuff for Genesis figures and I already invested a lot on those, so even though I'm interested in Poser, it's just not realistic for me to invest as much on stuff for La Femme even if there was the same amount of stuff for her. Honestly, I don't even need the ability to get Genesis figures in Poser, they can just have a system like CC3 which would let me use most of my library while still using Poser native figures.

That actually makes no sense to me. Spending money is part and parcel of supporting a figure. No vendor is going to support a new figure if no one is going to buy anything new for it.

adp001 posted at 8:52PM Tue, 17 November 2020 - #4398779

DAZ will not allow that Poser can read DAZ files. Under no circumstances. All DAZ has to do is sit back and wait for Poser to die. And probably Rendo with it.

I think I speak for anyone with intelligence - this statement is wrong. Wrong. Still wrong. Be quiet please, adults here talking.

Richard60 posted at 8:56PM Tue, 17 November 2020 - #4403556

Let's see if this will help some of you understand the problem with converting DSON

DAZ owns DAZ Studio and the copyrights to that program. Which means they own how the program works.

When Poser 9 came out it lacked one thing that Genesis needs in order to be usable. And that thing is Sub-Division. Poser 9 cannot Sub-Divide a figure.

However when DAZ first released the DSON plug -in for Poser all of a sudden Poser 9 Could Sub-Divide (but only the Genesis figure). Anybody want to take a guess as to why this was now possible? The answer is that the DSON plug-in contains a mini-version of DAZ Studio. Poser is used to send dial commands to the mini-Studio and that program then takes the Genesis mesh and creates a mesh that Poser then displays.

And there is the problem NOBODY but DAZ can write the code for Studio since they own the copyright. Without that code all the neat things you think Genesis can do, it can't. Basically it is fairly simple to write a converter program to take the DAZ files and return them back to OBJ where they came from. The problem is that it is a static OBJ with none of the Bells and Whistles you want it to have.. It is even possible to try and convert the Weight maps, although that can be hard as it will be a best guess and the results will be close at best. However the fancy things like Auto-Fit won't make it. And it is things like this that you want and won't have.

Man I don't even know where to start tearing your utter wall of BS down at...so many wrongness points here. Were I one to enjoy the tearing, I'd be salivating. First of all if you even knew half of what you were talking about you'd know that DAZ figures contain multiple combines of their structure representing "levels" of subdivided versions. In other words you have a base and a "SubD" version which can be shifted using DSON input. They don't need a "mini-Studio" because you can't import with DSON unless Studio is installed on your computer. Where do you think you're importing or transferring a DAZ file from if not the Studio runtime? (Sighs and face palms himself!) And if you know what you're doing (which you clearly indicate you don't--) you can have all of Gen3+8 has to offer with only the loss of very minimal features. The weightmapping is converted in DAZ before setting up an export file to be used by DSON. So again, me smart...maybe you're not. I get really annoyed when people talk smack and don't even know what they're smacking. I apologize if my tone seems annoyed. That's probably because it is.

With everyone's extensive knowledge about the DSON script. By all means convert it to Python 3 for everyone else. I mean seriously, if people claim to know exactly how it works, it won't be hard at all. That would solve the whole thing. It is just a text file after all....

It's amazing how fast the "experts" here can put off people that could actually convert it as well. It's not amazing how many people resort to throwing mud, insulting people, acting like little kids that didn't get their way, and then claim to be experts in the field they know very little about or they already would have done something productive...

It has become "the norm" here. And yet those people wonder why nothing they ask for, ever happens.

I personally have no interest in converting it now, especially after reading all the experts that have chimed in...

Some things are easy to explain, other things are not........ <- Store -> <-Freebies->

@shvrdavid Nice to see you ? I, personally don't care about childish rants and insults. I also don't care about those who claim to be "Intellectual superior " in front of others. This is like with money, when you have a lot, you don't talk about it. ? I block this user, because I don't want to waste time on useless,poisonous rants which are like little child's "I hold my breath till I get what I want" ....My little daughter try it, it did not go well ? I don't care about DSON, I use Genesis where Genesis belongs. In DS. Try DSON and did not like it. Try out also the Blender Bridge, not really what I was looking for.

I looking forward for new shiny scripts and new improvements in Poser 12. Improvements for LF, (hate her hands) and Dawn 2. The Future for Poser looking good to me.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

BabaBozo posted at 7:42AM Tue, 24 November 2020 - #4399765

I was encouraged to discover this model in the free section of the forum yesterday:

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2936022

I'm hardly an expert on such things, but to this Poser newbie this model seems a quality product. It seems professional constructed, everything you need is nicely organized all in one place, installs easily and correctly (even for me!) and is otherwise generally excellent.

If I owned Poser I would hire this artist to create a dozen new characters for the next version of Poser, which to my newbie eyes seems generally superior to all the characters currently shipping with Poser. (La Femme/Homme are perhaps more technically sophisticated?)

Point being, instead of wringing our hands about Daz content, perhaps a better solution is to identify the best artists and put them on the Poser payroll. To the degree Poser depends on Daz it's future will always be uncertain. Seems wiser to forget about Daz and focus on developing Poser characters that the market finds compelling.

Lovely creation and thanks for mentioning her - I've just downloaded her and here's my contribution: https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/gallery/?image_id=2975478

TheAnimaGemini posted at 12:13PM Sun, 06 December 2020 - #4404087

@Mec4D Thank you. It is so great to read some common sense nowadays. I honestly never understand this Gen to Poser thing. It is now some kind of obsession, no matter how many times they get explained that it is not on the Poser developer to decide if Gen goes into Poser or not. I use Poser since long. I use also DS , have invested a lot in Gen 2-8 products. I invested btw also in V4 a lot and don't even bother my self anymore with her. And people also like to forget how many xtra scripts, morphs from 3rd party creator was needed to make her bend and behave properly. LF is good, all she need is support and some small fixes ( have to admit her hand is awful , especially her thumb ) , but I don't think it is sooo difficult to fix this. And there is Dawn, soon Dawn 2 , which looks very promising .Personally, I am looking forward to what comes next in Poser and LF/Dawn development. And when I have the urge to use Genesis, I open up DS.

Let me explain why I like bringing in the G figures into Poser.

I need more than generic, instantly forgettable, early 20's Caucasians - which is every post-V4 figure. I need older people, younger people, normally sized people, and clothing for professions other than the oldest profession. AFA sets, I need normal stuff for sets.

This is why I still use legacy figures. This is also why I use the fitting room to make all of my clothing content figure independent via the fitting room. And it is why I dump money over at DAZ. They make what I need. Pity the software is a poorly coded pile of poo.

Poser, DS, Blender, whatever - every program has it's limitations. It is up to you to decide which works best for you - for me, it is no contest - Poser gives me the best value.

ssgbryan posted at 11:44PM Sun, 06 December 2020 - #4406588

TheAnimaGemini posted at 12:13PM Sun, 06 December 2020 - #4404087

@Mec4D Thank you. It is so great to read some common sense nowadays. I honestly never understand this Gen to Poser thing. It is now some kind of obsession, no matter how many times they get explained that it is not on the Poser developer to decide if Gen goes into Poser or not. I use Poser since long. I use also DS , have invested a lot in Gen 2-8 products. I invested btw also in V4 a lot and don't even bother my self anymore with her. And people also like to forget how many xtra scripts, morphs from 3rd party creator was needed to make her bend and behave properly. LF is good, all she need is support and some small fixes ( have to admit her hand is awful , especially her thumb ) , but I don't think it is sooo difficult to fix this. And there is Dawn, soon Dawn 2 , which looks very promising .Personally, I am looking forward to what comes next in Poser and LF/Dawn development. And when I have the urge to use Genesis, I open up DS.

Let me explain why I like bringing in the G figures into Poser.

I need more than generic, instantly forgettable, early 20's Caucasians - which is every post-V4 figure. I need older people, younger people, normally sized people, and clothing for professions other than the oldest profession. AFA sets, I need normal stuff for sets.

This is why I still use legacy figures. This is also why I use the fitting room to make all of my clothing content figure independent via the fitting room. And it is why I dump money over at DAZ. They make what I need. Pity the software is a poorly coded pile of poo.

Poser, DS, Blender, whatever - every program has it's limitations. It is up to you to decide which works best for you - for me, it is no contest - Poser gives me the best value.

I understand where you coming from. And yes, I think Poser characters like Dawn/LF and their male counterparts could have more vendor support. More various characters, older age, ethnicity , monsters, etc..but I think here Poser users fall in their own trap. This is like a self fulfilling prophecy. As I remember, Dawn was already bashed before her official release. User give her not one fair chance. On the other hand, why should vendors spent time and money on a character which get already trashed before the official release? No support from user, no support from vendors. Poser character will disappear therefore in a void and people keep asking for another Poser character, which will have the same fate like all the others. Support Poser character, ask for new features for them, corrections whatever, V4 was at the beginning very poor too.

La vie est éternelle. L'amour est immortel.

“Dwell on the beauty of life. Watch the stars, and see yourself running with them.”
― Marcus Aurelius,

MazinkaiserDX posted at 11:07AM Sun, 13 December 2020 - #4403649

Personally, I think La Femme seems to be pretty good, my issue is that there is just much more stuff for Genesis figures and I already invested a lot on those, so even though I'm interested in Poser, it's just not realistic for me to invest as much on stuff for La Femme even if there was the same amount of stuff for her. Honestly, I don't even need the ability to get Genesis figures in Poser, they can just have a system like CC3 which would let me use most of my library while still using Poser native figures.

From a buyer and content maker standpoint, we, the end users are addicted to buying content. After spending over a decade running like a hamster on a wheel, every new thing that came out for the figure (s) of my choice, I would buy up with glee but found that I used VERY little of any of it.

La'Femme and L'Homme are wonderful figures with ALLOT of potential. I'm an ex DS user so I'm still finding my way around Poser and the Material room but I have a character pack for L'Homme almost completed and other ideas for him in the works. He's fun to work with, he bends well and while I think there are little niggles that need improving I ask the community when a figure is in it's first year or so don't ALL OF THEM have their niggles and annoyances? YUP!

So bottom line folks aren't embracing these new figures because mostly there isn't a full on library of stuff for them, that's really it. Bottom line. I just supported Fabi during her sale buying ONLY Poser based stuff to send a message to her that HEY OVER HERE, WE NEED YOUR BRILLIANCE! Same with Cath and many others that in recent years have jumped over to DS to make some bank. It's understandable but it's sad too that it's either or for allot folks, including me.

Back when I was starting out doing content creation I joined Hivewire team and made some stuff for Dawn and Dusk and really wanted to support both DS and Poser but my older brain was just not having it so I just focused on DS. Then I realized that since DS has Genesis my sales were abysmal, so I stopped and then jumped over to Genesis 8 Male, made a wonderful character "Gino" but not one sale. I even have him bundled with clothing and fiber hair "Bio Accessories" I made for him over at ShareCG. NADA. That's when I realized that the market for Genesis 3 & 8 were over saturated with too many offerings. So that's when I took a break from all of it and then came back and jumped ship over to Poser. No regrets, none!

So folks just have to look at what they have, repurpose it with new textures and shaders to get things looking good and be patient! We are trying to fill in gaps but that takes time!

---Wolff On The Prowl---

My Store is HERE

My Freebies are HERE

This thread was started in September. It is now January of 2021 and I notice that no one has ever come forward to explain why Genesis is such a great figure over any others. It's not a trick question. All you have to do is explain why YOU like it so much more.

Earl, You are seemingly asking for Both technical/objective and subjective personal reasons why people prefer Genesis over other figures.

The Genesis figures have more quality clothing content and Character morph support for those who only buy/consume/render.

For those of us who produce our own content,for personal use or for sale, the Daz transfer utility and other cloth rigging tools are far superior to the mish mash of non-unified,(figure it out yourself), methods available for poser.

the only option better than the Daz cloth rigging tools are to Auto weighting tool of Iclone CC3 pipeline that I now use.

For people who are interested in animation, again it is no contest Poser animation tools are still stuck in the late 1990's?

Yet Genesis has several options for facial lipsynch in DS including an Iphone based facial mocap system,Direct Iclone support,and Daz nonliner motion clip system system animate 2.

Do you see many animations of LF/LH Dusk Dawn??

And for that majority who only render stills Daz's NVIDIA Iray Destroys "superfly"

Also for those who want to render thier figures in other 3DCC's and Game engines Daz has free plugins to export Genesis figures to those apps with JCM's intact.

And for Blender there is another free Plugin that export imports genesis figures that is even better than the Daz to Blender plugin.

Poser only has an outdated version of FBX to export figures to other applications as bondware has dropped support for it poser fusion export plugins.

In summary Earl, the quality of the figures themselves only matters to the degree they are actually supported for various end user purposes in this competitive market.( content creation,variety merchant support ,animation figure export to other programs etc)

My website

YouTube Channel

wolf359 posted at 8:31AM Fri, 08 January 2021 - #4409541

Earl, You are seemingly asking for Both technical/objective and subjective personal reasons why people prefer Genesis over other figures.

Admittedly, some subjective personal reasons are being requested, but in many cases, it is the technical reasons which are given. I'll take either one, if they're ever given.

The Genesis figures have more quality clothing content and Character morph support for those who only buy/consume/render.

Wolf, youve been around long enough to know that Genesis did not start out with a full closet of clothing content OR Character morphs. That was built up over YEARS. Remember Auto-fit? It was actually the one thing about Studio that I DID like.

For those of us who produce our own content,for personal use or for sale, the Daz transfer utility and other cloth rigging tools are far superior to the mish mash of non-unified,(figure it out yourself), methods available for poser.

the only option better than the Daz cloth rigging tools are to Auto weighting tool of Iclone CC3 pipeline that I now use.

In summary Earl, the quality of the figures themselves only matters to the degree they are actually supported for various end user purposes in this competitive market.( content creation,variety merchant support ,animation figure export to other programs etc)

And as usual, you go off on a rant about animation. But you still don't describe any technical advantages that Genesis has over any other figure including V4. Second, as I've stated before, most of Genesis' "technical" superiority actually seems to stem from Studio, not Genesis.

Earl you seem deparate beleive that people choose figures in this little market base on the intrinsic technical or asthetic features of the DEFAULT figure itself...and ALL of the other factors I mentioned make no difference to the various users.

This is utter fantasy!!!

What do you actually do with your poser figures anyway ???

Oh... and for the record, Genesis-1 Did ,and still, has the Ability to use every peice of clothing/hair and every skin map/pose/animation files, that ever exsited for the Mill 4 figures Via autofit and UV switching from Day one.

13 years of content sir?

No DSON, no third party plugins/hacks but a native feature of its HOST application from Day one.

Market support and HOST software specific feature support ( HD morphs,JCMS,animation options, Cloth rigging tools,export options) determines which figure will be popular with both end users and Potential Content merchants.

simple economics Earl

but dont listen to me just ask Antonia, ELLE, Paul,pauline Sydney simon, Roxie, Ryan, Project E..........

My website

YouTube Channel

I'd like a painless way to get post-V4 DAZ figures and clothing into Poser in posable form. Happens I cannot grok DS, Blender or GIMP UI, so it would help if Poser could reliably import all three major flavours of FBX rigs.

( Distinguished as 'plays nice', 'spawns several sub-rigs' and 'splat / bang'. Perhaps four if you count MakeHuman... )

I've become quite good at converting DSF props to OBJ/MTL. Okay, I cannot yet port morphs, but I'll happily use D3D's DSF Toolbox ($$) to get 'bare' OBJs. Then, if the materials / textures match is not obvious, I un-pack the associated DUF with eg 7Zip, open the 'un-typed' contents as indented text using eg Wordpad. The basic texture calls are near the start, but there's a lot more info. Analogies with a busy MC5/MC6...

Also, I'd like network rendering extended to Superfly ASAP...

wolf359 posted at 2:36AM Wed, 10 March 2021 - #4398916

All of the other third party figures are dead or dying (or aborted after six years of development in the case of "venus & Orion" by Ambient shade)

This is not entirely accurate.

"Venus & Orion" by Ambient shade

Please, could you tone-down your strobed intro page ? It bordered on 'Photic Driver', gave me a prompt migraine...

NikKelly posted at 6:41AM Wed, 10 March 2021 - #4414672

"Venus & Orion" by Ambient shade

Please, could you tone-down your strobed intro page ? It bordered on 'Photic Driver', gave me a prompt migraine...

Sorry about that. I can't change what background image tumblr puts on their warning pages. But I'm changing that link anyway cause tumblr is trash.

First Genesis is not just a 3D figure but Genesis system , the 3d base models are simple low poly meshes and nothing special about it . So at itself Genesis base mesh is nothing much , you can model the Poser4 Dork into anything you want too or Dawn or Dusk or whatever figures you come across . The whole system in Daz Studio is what makes it great and simple to work with. New users can do things without learning anything on the technical side. It is easy to make new products to support the figures too. In short it is easier for less knowledgeable users. Just buy products, click and render without decoding codes.

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ? I switched to Daz Studio completely years ago for just rendering because of the Nvidia Iray engine as I like the simplicity and results and fast rendering, together with my Poser's Runtime . The long lack of support in Poser software turns me off and has not updated since 7 years until now, since it really started moving in the right directions I like and I hope for more standard improvements in the future.

I am working right now on some project to support Poser, HW and Rendo with my upcoming characters for HW D2's just to inspire others , since the mesh really doesn't matter , the technical side of it is and it will be so much better for sure. As usual it will be up to the users as they are the last and most important judges. There is no way to make everyone happy I know that, nobody is perfect

Here some base morph shapes for upcoming D2's figures in base low resolution that I am working on for some time now using Zbrush, all will be full characters including their wardrobes , skin, hair etc .. You can check my thread at HW under Show my Honey , here are just couple previews but there is a lot more if you like to see. Cath

Screenshot 2021-03-16 020025.jpg Screenshot 2021-03-14 160218.jpg Screenshot 2021-03-11 054701.jpg Screenshot 2021-03-05 145001.jpg Screenshot 2021-03-05 010008.jpg Screenshot 2021-03-02 155409.jpg

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

Well, that explains a lot , I guess that is the answer why people enjoy Genesis system , as problems like that are easier to handle and people can create easy new content without super skills. I hope the new HW D2's bring something good to the community , great new realistic characters, facial rigging etc.. so nobody need facial expression morphs anymore , easy to handle and works fine since I am testing it. Definitely it is going to be something unique this time .

ChromeStar posted at 1:27PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415266

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

I wouldn't say that it is about "enjoying" the G figures, as much as it is trying to fill in all of the gaps (which are significant) between what the artist needs and what is actually available for post V4/M4 figures. Move outside of pin up, and there isn't actually much available.

Most of the DS products I have bought are filling niches that Poser vendors have chosen not to fill.

That's a valid point you have here , totally agree with you.

ssgbryan posted at 10:44PM Mon, 22 March 2021 - #4415410

I wouldn't say that it is about "enjoying" the G figures, as much as it is trying to fill in all of the gaps (which are significant) between what the artist needs and what is actually available for post V4/M4 figures. Move outside of pin up, and there isn't actually much available.

Most of the DS products I have bought are filling niches that Poser vendors have chosen not to fill.

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"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

I'm hoping that D2's rigging and mesh make content creation just a bit easier. La Femme's JCMs (and poser's rigging morphing tools) make content creation brutal. Scripts are necessary to the workflow. And some of them have to use "hacks" to make up for lack in the API.

There seems to be no way to use OBJ files to morph at higher subd. Which sucks, what with sculpt in blender 2.9 being such a nice tool. At a cost of 0.

I want to make more content, but Poser doesn't help with that.

Poser has adopted cycles. How about a proper blender bridge? One were I can have the scene open in both apps, rig and pose in poser, edit meshes in blender, mess with texture nodes and render in either.

And fries with that, please.

As a long-time Poser user (almost 20 years!) who has started using Daz Studio simply to be able to use Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 characters natively, i.e. without using complicated procedures to get individual Genesis 3 or 8 characters into Poser, I have to agree with the statement that Poser has the best software and Daz Studio has the best characters and items for them. I find Daz Studio extremely frustrating to work with because to me every step is so much more complicated than in Poser and it is rather difficult to find things in the Daz libraries, but the renders I get with Genesis 8 characters and the Iray render engine are far better than my renders of Poser characters (in Poser 11). I addition, the amount of 3rd party support for Poser characters is far, far less than for Genesis ones and getting worse. My dream - which I fear will never come true - is that Daz and Poser could somehow work together to create either (1) a version of Poser in which Genesis characters work natively, or (2) a version of Daz Studio that uses Poser's interface.

Or.... Dawn and Dusk 2.

No pressure on the developers :)

I do get the distinct impression that they're enjoying working on da2. The sick puppies :p

I'm actually surprised that Poser users didn't take up Dawn more quickly for those who are bringing Genesis into Poser especially. Dawn has a poser version and less hassle using her. My biggest issue in Poser is using clothing with morph which has gotten easier but still needs work and the dynamics which I find much easier in DS.

Here are some comparisons I did a couple of years back. Both wearing same items one is Dawn and the other is Genesis3F Dawn Gen3 comparison Charlotte 2.jpg

Both characters use the Genesis platform and to my mind both work well. They each have their little quirks. The main reason most people go for Genesis is availability of accessories to use in my opinion.

Definitely .. Dawn 2 unimesh is just perfect , no limitations I believe the issue in Poser is that people need use external scripts for everything and add on software to make things going on and create , it is not straight out the box, too many figures and each of them with different way of working . Too frustrated . That why I prefer Dawn. because I can do everything in one spot and convert thing to every platform I want without the need of external scripts and software , and since I use both programs it is my preferred choice .

BTW working on a chimp for Dawn 2 unimesh , it going to be available here at Rendo as well after the Official release by Hivewire and 100 other cool stuff.

thoennes posted at 8:14AM Wed, 19 May 2021 - #4417959

Or.... Dawn and Dusk 2.

No pressure on the developers :)

I do get the distinct impression that they're enjoying working on da2. The sick puppies :p

_________________________________________________________

"Surrender to what it is - Let go of what was - Have faith in what will be "

Just love your chimp!

Uhm... holy &#%$!!!

This could go a long way to enabling that feature request hanging around since Poser 1: the "make art" button. iirc (and I don't), it reads your imagination, and automatically creates a 3d scene that renders to a 2d image that perfectly captures what you're imagining. I think someone suggested it needed a "filter pron" checkbox, but that someone clearly has issues. It will rely on hyper-mesh technology (4d meshes) and quantum nodes (1 single qnode is able to do everything possible at the same instant). 2 inputs: waveformCollapse and ImaginaryImage. The problem was difficulty in synchronizing those two inputs into a meaningful output. Or you have to have a quantum display which is on Apple's roadmap, but will be proprietary and too expensive for anyone. That's not even including the stand! (it holds the monitor at every position at the same time)

In any case, that feature request pre-dates my Poser experience (I started at 4).

gwp posted at 9:59AM Mon, 21 June 2021 - #4417846

As a long-time Poser user (almost 20 years!) who has started using Daz Studio simply to be able to use Genesis 3 and Genesis 8 characters natively, i.e. without using complicated procedures to get individual Genesis 3 or 8 characters into Poser, I have to agree with the statement that Poser has the best software and Daz Studio has the best characters and items for them. I find Daz Studio extremely frustrating to work with because to me every step is so much more complicated than in Poser and it is rather difficult to find things in the Daz libraries, but the renders I get with Genesis 8 characters and the Iray render engine are far better than my renders of Poser characters (in Poser 11). I addition, the amount of 3rd party support for Poser characters is far, far less than for Genesis ones and getting worse. My dream - which I fear will never come true - is that Daz and Poser could somehow work together to create either (1) a version of Poser in which Genesis characters work natively, or (2) a version of Daz Studio that uses Poser's interface.

In order to make your dream come true, either Poser or DS would have to become more like the other. DS was once more like Poser, but it diverged in order to make things work the way they wanted it to work. I have no qualms with that. If I really wanted to use Genesis that badly, I'd just use DS. And yes, I've been using Poser since version 2 although, version 1 was still on the market when I found it.

ChromeStar posted at 10:07AM Mon, 21 June 2021 - #4415266

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

I'm curious, what are the problems you've found with Dawn and Dusk?

Every time I see these talks of Poser dying off I just think "Ah crap! I really need to hurry up and make something cool with Poser!"

Its kinda sad for the content side in general, but as an animation tool, Poser is friggn awesome. You just have to create your own content or setup content from elsewhere. As long as it can be turned into an obj, it can be in Poser. Just takes a bit of time and work. Its actually much easier to rig in Poser than fully featured 3D apps. (still a pain) This is a regular part of the process for any 3D stuff so im not thrown off at all by lack of content. Though I never started using Poser for the content so maybe im just a weirdo,

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My most recent Poser animation:
Previs Dummies 2

ShaneNewville posted at 7:52PM Fri, 23 July 2021 - #4423711

Every time I see these talks of Poser dying off I just think "Ah crap! I really need to hurry up and make something cool with Poser!"

Its kinda sad for the content side in general, but as an animation tool, Poser is friggn awesome. You just have to create your own content or setup content from elsewhere. As long as it can be turned into an obj, it can be in Poser. Just takes a bit of time and work. Its actually much easier to rig in Poser than fully featured 3D apps. (still a pain) This is a regular part of the process for any 3D stuff so im not thrown off at all by lack of content. Though I never started using Poser for the content so maybe im just a weirdo,

People have been predicting the inevitable end of Poser since 2009. It is now 2021, and Poser is still here. It's ironic that it has been somewhat displaced by software that was created to replace it if it ever DID fold.

Not sure when I started Poser. I remember Maya Doll when it first came out and Vicky Buster. I hung around for awhile after V4 and G3 then took a very long break. I came back and decided to try Daz with G3 and G8. Browse Renderosity and compare the content then browse Daz and compare the content. I really see no need to describe what common sense should tell you. I'm not even going to tell you which I decided to use. Did I go back to Poser or stay with Daz? Browse content like Dragons and Fantasy monsters. Browse Sci Fi environment and clothing. Browse character morphs and skin textures. Then come back and tell me what I use.

Poser makes it hard to stay…, if you like more versatile figures with more options! My priorities changed from using Studio for conversations to poser, to using poser for making things for Studio. With other words, the longer I used studio to convert sceneries and objects to Poser the more I learned the Studio interface and finally, I realized that I spend to much time to convert things.

EClark1894 posted at 10:08 AM Mon, 21 June 2021 - #4421760

Mec4D posted at 1:19PM Sat, 20 March 2021 - #4415002

Now back to Poser, I still don't know what people really want. I see a lot of beautiful stuff in the store here to use with Poser, lovely characters , clothing and props what's exactly the problem ?

The problem is that V4 and M4 have issues bending, while V4's weight-mapped versions have problems with clothes fitting and don't load poses as designed, so they are a lot more work to use. Meanwhile, LF has quite limited content, especially when it comes to facial expressions and characters, and so far has a pretty limited range of looks.

I'm curious, what are the problems you've found with Dawn and Dusk?

You know, I'm still waiting for someone to answer this question...

I like the 'look & feel' of Poser, even if many of the facilities seem too arcane to grok. I often have the Poser manual open on my fourth (!!) display yet, even so...

My CGI background is 'sorta-CAD'. I used P3 then P4 to add posable figures to rooms / sets / scenes exported from CAD and its twinned 'Home Design' program. Now, is mostly the other way around. I use CAD to tweak / trawl sets and props meant for Poser or DS...

Though DS and Blender UIs give me a prompt migraine, I often grab budget or free DS props / scenes from eg DAZ or Rendo. Some may be ripped by exporting from DS as OBJ+MTL, others by converting the DUF or DSF with ($$) DSF Toolkit. ( DUF un-zips to 'un-typed' DSF.)

I'm in awe of DS' astonishing Gen-8 figures and their wardrobes but, just a couple of those, and you approach Poser's up-front cost...

I'd like to be able to use DS figures in Poser, especially the monsters. Sadly, the DSON issues and, yes, the DS DRM system suggest there's no current solution short of figure re-rigging. Which, to put it politely, is non-trivial...

Another point: My PoserPro_11.3 happily imports 'un-rigged' FBX models, but 'open source' rigged figures, such as via Blender or DS, do not fully conform to Autodesk format. Results range from 'mildly posable with care' via 'flock of sub-rigs' to 'splat'. The honourable exception is 'Rigged in Maya', which seems to work flawlessly. Of course, given Maya's 'seat price', I must wonder if that licences the authentic FBX SDK...

If Poser can reliably import 'open source' rigged FBX, it opens access to a lot of DS figures without resort to DSON or DS DRM. Down-side, it also opens floodgates to SFM, XPS, PMX etc etc and their potential zoo of game, MMD / TDA etc DRM issues.

I'm no 'Insider', but must wonder if Rendo / Bondware's lawyers have glimpsed Salties and/or shark-fins, cautioned, "Stay Out Of The Water !!"

Um, there's also the 'Make Human' FBX figure format, which again uses 'open source' FBX I/O but, IIRC, a different rig to either DS or Blender. Being able to grab such figures as NPCs and 'scene extras' would be handy...

FWIW, I'm currently on 11.3, but planning to upgrade to 12 this Autumn. I've a lot of Rendo points to put towards it...

Tangential: Please may we have an 'All Version' forum for Network Rendering ?? I realised was cheaper and more future-resistant to build a network-render 'Box' than to significantly upgrade either of this PCs twin GPU cards, So I did...

NikKelly have you ever used Autodesk's free FBX Conversion tool? It's old but it happily converts almost anything I have thrown at it into something usefull. Don't know about those mmk files or game rips. I don't do those.

This thread has been on my to do list. I've come back to say I am not using Poser any longer. I could still be using the same old Poser characters, but my fascination with newer and better technology continues to grow - this is pretty normal for me. The new Poser release pretty much convinced me - I was counter productive. I am not using DAZ Studio, per se, but I am exporting characters from DAZ to Blender using this wonderful tool:

https://diffeomorphic.blogspot.com/p/daz-importer-version-16.html

I had been dabbling with Blender for a while, but this last January during pandemic I made it a goal to learn to use it to reproduce what I had been doing in Poser: make comics. What I found was pretty awesome. It is more complicated to use, no question. But working in it is so much better than Poser (which is so much better than DAZ). It is just so stable compared to the nightmare I was undergoing with Poser. And it has tons of active investment to improve it. Three periodic releases (every two years I think), with a very stable Long Term Support release after that.

One of the reasons I came back was to say that adopting DAZ formats is not the answer. It is just keeping up with the Joneses. There are better formats, Armature Rigs, etc. that DAZ is trying to keep up with. Poser is behind all of them. This may be a calculated strategy: keep Poser simple for beginners. But if that is true, it will be natural for users to upgrade off of Poser.

My suggestion is to try to keep up with Blender, and create compatibility with Blender formats. Almost all of Blender's formats are industry standards. If Poser can create an easy to use Blender, it would allow DAZ to keep churning out characters and you could import them alá Blender.

Just been reading through a few similar threads and driven to throw in my 2 cents, given that, like many others, I’ve spent a fair sum over the years.

For me, the Poser interface has always been more Mac-like to use and so I preferred it to DS, plus DS hardly ran on the Macs I had, but Poser, in its current state is end-of-life (for me) because it is not written to work well on current Macs and their new OSs.

It is now slower than the hacked DS for Big Sur, version 4.15.0.30, not that DS doesn’t crash of course, but at the moment DS is just quicker to use and render quality seems sharper. Until I see an upgrade to P12 that shows equivalent speed improvements, I shall continue to use DS (ignoring the fact the Cloth Room is faster than dForce).

SSCHNEEW is right imho when he mutes Poser has had its day.

I think it should be rewritten from the ground up to make use of Blender, Unreal, and external renderers like Radeon ProRender and Eevee. Why play catch-up when you can leap-frog?

You have great Artists and Content Creators, like Mech4D, making awesome stuff for Poser, but at the end of the day I think a lot of people would like to see Genesis usable in Poser for the simple reason it looks anatomically better, bends better, and there is a plethora of exceptional content.

A lot of programmes open up MS Word and Adobe PS files without seemingly breeching copyright issues so why can’t Poser use duf files? A revamped Poser should be able to bring in DS figures for use in Poser without Daz having to write a DSON like module.

If you look at the Daz development path and its desire to integrate with the likes of Blender, Unreal and Unity… that would suggest the way to go for both Poser users and content creators.

Greater flexibility and compatibility makes for a dynamic market, not isolationism… Make the Dawn figures useable in DS too… why should creators have to sell to a restricted market?

Or… is it the end as some have said? La Femme was another patch…. Blackhearted’s own GND was better, again imho.

A couple of renders below, both with one single spot light on a black background, one Poser, one DS. The DS took a third of the time to render on the CPU… Both are with textures as they come so they are both with bump map flaws… I won’t say which is which… though the clothing is a clue.

I think what we can take away from this is...

There are obviously copyright issues. It is risky for any business to be too dependent on any other business so that is not the way forward.

Great figures are crucial. Content being created is also crucial and dependent on how much people like the figures.

The best idea I have seen in this thread is the one about a subscription model for Poser. Yes! Lower the bar for entry. Why not a rent-to-buy option even? :)

Frequency Gallery | Frequency Store

I caused mild consternation on another Rendo thread by daring to suggest that Gen' figures + textures and then their clothing might be dynamically fitted to Poser 'carrier' figures...

( If suitably morphed... )

Isn't this what 'dynamic' fitting does with an 'OBJ' garment ? As you would with eg a pant-suit ?? Now with a second pass to load / fit the clothing ...

Even if each pass needs 'many' iterations, it's like yet-another test-render: when comes right, yay ! Solved !!

Uses a facility built in to Poser, does not use DSON, requires legitimate acquisition of DS figures / wardrobes etc ??

So, who is familiar enough with dynamic clothing etc to take a shot ??

Here is Brielle, an Aiko3 character, wearing a G8, dFormable top, exported as an obj from DS to Poser
I had to scale it down because the poor Brielle is really smaller than the standard G8, briefly posed using the standard T-pose on Brielle, and I let the cloth room do the job. Her left hand is holding the left part of the cloth to avoid a nip slip :grin:
Most of the time, as it's Poser12, and thus rendered using Cycles, I don't care about the mat settings, I only need the diffuse/bump maps (most of the time but not each time)

For pants, you will have to mange the different parts, such as a constrained zone near the belt area, etc... But that's doable

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Forum: Poser 12 - Feature Requests

Subject: I HAVE to say this, cannot sit on it any longer.