Pumeco I don't know about any other counties taxes.
so I can't compare.
I'm not even U.S. tax savvy.
we pay tax people to deal with are taxes for us.
I have no problem paying my taxes here thou.so I'm good.

Pumeco if ya think Brits or U.S. have it bad you alt to take a world tour 
your really love Middle East, Russia, China, Africa ,India.
just to menchin a few lovely country's.

you have a P.C. and the web you have every opportunity to make your fortune at the stock market.
billions of people will never have the opportunity.
They have a excuse for there miserablelife.
we on the other hand do not.what ever bed we lay in is of are own making.

@RorrKonn
Not interested in "Stock Markets" or any other form of business, I hate business, never did like paperwork.

I have my plan and I'm sticking to it, and as soon as I'm out of the UK, life starts.  It's all worked out mate, and doesn't involve "work" of any variety.  The only thing I'll be doing is enjoying the stuff I want to do, made possible by a debt-free stress-free lifestyle (just as my freedom-loving friends are doing).  I'll never set foot in the UK again once I leave.  I absolutely despise the fucking place and I shall spit at the fucking shore when I leave!

Sorry RorrKonn.  My mistake.  Visiting and paying your respects at any memorial is not intruding.  The Wall is difficult for me as well.  My father served 3 tours and I lost a brother.  The 9/11 Memorial can be a bit frightening when you stop and realize that those waterfalls used to be where the towers stood.  I saw the site three days after the attack and watched all the changes yet I still feel like I've been kicked in the gut when I see it now.  I don't think it will ever go away.

Pumeco

Maybe there are reasons why your country is now requiring people who call themselves PI's to be registered.  Have you researched the hows and whys? 

Pumeco the only place that exist on this planet that's work free is solitaire or death row.

I've never been on death row but I'm sure it's very very stressful.

even bumb half to work they half to dig threw dumpsters and get there on time to get the fresh scraps.

they still half to fight to survive.
even billionaires half to work at keeping up with there money.

so tell me what country ya moving to and how ya going to live work free stress free. ?

icprncss2 very sorry about your Brother he was the best of us.
and tell you Father I sincerely appreciate him keeping me and my family safe.

@Icprncss2
I'm not interested in becoming a PI.  I did look into it years ago and that's how I knew about there being no requirement (but that's changing now).
And why are they changing it? - For the same reason we have the BBFC, it's because the public tolerate it.

@RorrKonn
I would rather live in most of the countries you pointed out than the UK, and believe me, I know what goes on.

And you're wrong about work.  My freedom-loving friends don't "work", and those born into that lifestyle have never worked, and never will.  The problem with your outlook on this stuff, is your definition of "work".  Work is being a lacky for someone else, you "work" but it's your boss that gets rich - not you.  You "work" but it's him who gets to go out every night, posing in his two-seater sportscar, pulling babes and bringing them back to his opulent apartment.  You on the other hand, get to pay-off a tiny part of your life-long slavery loan (AKA Mortgage) each week.

I'm not explaining my plan to you, because It's tailored to me, it's what I want - so it's of no use to anyone but me anyway.

Work = F x D

The only people who don't do it are people in comas and the dead. We all work.

When it comes to doing a job, however, how much of the product of your labour you get to keep and how much goes elsewhere is the key question Pumeco seems interested in. For him, keeping 100% of a small amount is more liberating than keeping 20% of a large amount, even if the latter option puts more money in your pocket. This is a totally legitimate way to see things. Most of us don't see it that way, and that's legitimate too.

Me, I sacrifice some kinds of liberty in order to have others. The kinds that are important to me aren't found in a great many countries. In many, I wouldn't even be able to post on these forums or drive or own property or have any say in governmental policy or risk being put to death for criticizing a religious belief. 

It all depends on what's important to the individual. I'm staying in Canada. It's far from perfect. But the climate here IS perfect. And the rest is a reasonable compromise.

As for the UK, I'm just visiting. :) I'm also going to Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, France, Netherlands, and Belgium. It's a music and fine arts (and BEER!) tour of northern Europe. Britain just happens to be where the in-laws live, and we've been invited to see them. :) (Plus there's some sweet museums in London).

I'm tempted to suggest a Poser meetup. But these sorts of things tend to need a year of notice before we can get details like that all worked out. :D :D

Moriador Wrote:
"When it comes to doing a job, however, how much of the product of your labour you get to keep and how much goes elsewhere is the key question Pumeco seems interested in. For him, keeping 100% of a small amount is more liberating than keeping 20% of a large amount, even if the latter option puts more money in your pocket. This is a totally legitimate way to see things. Most of us don't see it that way, and that's legitimate too."

Exactly, and you'd be amazed how many people simply cannot grasp what you just wrote, they struggle to grasp such concepts, it's totally alien to them!
Anyway, I hope you enjoy your trip, sounds like a cool adventure :-)

There's a few Brits on here, but not sure how many live near London.

Pumeco apparently where having a communication problem.

I guess ya saying if ya work for ya self then that's not work.
we call it being self employed .that ya working for ya self.

what do you call working for ya self ?

anyways don't jump to conclusions. I don't have a boss,mortgage ,car payment etc etc.

***moriador quote
*I'm staying in Canada. It's far from perfect. But the climate here IS perfect.

I have a new conspiracy theory, ya Moriador is a penguin ;)

** **

@RorrKonn
I'm not jumping to conclusions, you are, because I won't be self-employed either :-D
I just wrote a whole bunch of stuff in an attempt to explain, but then deleted it again.

There's plenty of books out there that explain this stuff a lot better than I ever could.

*Pumeco quote ****@RorrKonn
*I'm not jumping to conclusions, you are

I'm not sure what ya saying, I am what ? ya saying I'm self employed ?

title of book ? or better yet a you tube link ?

* *

Then give us a title on one of these books.

Because if you aren't working for yourself and you aren't employed anywhere, and you don't have a substantial life savings or some kind of insurance payout, then you're living on government checks and hand-outs. There's no getting around that.

You can go the Mathew Lesko route and apply for government grants and all that stuff, but in the end you're still living off of government money aka other people's money. Because working people pay taxes in order for that money to exist. So if no one was working, that money wouldn't exist.

I've read plenty of articles about people who live "debt free" and "moneyless lives" and every time those articles eventually boil down to: dumpster diving, swap meets, soup kitchens, sharing a 1 bedroom house with 5 to 10 other "friends" etc. That is not my idea of living comfortably. I'm not eating out of someone's trash or wearing clothes someone else tossed out, and I don't believe in government hand-outs for able-bodied people who are just too lazy to get a real job. Government assistance should only be for people who actually need it.

There are plenty of ways to work for yourself without having a boss breathing down your neck. It's not easy but it's manageable. I've been working for myself for nearly 6 years now, doing everything from painting office buildings to light construction, to cleaning yards, to making art and building content for people in the Poser community and other software. You're not really working for yourself though, you're doing a job someone is paying you for, which makes them your boss, at least for as long as it takes to complete the job. There are also a number of freelancer websites that list jobs you can bid on and build up a client base that way. Lots of people live pretty decently just from jobs they get from freelance sites. But it still requires working as much as possible and making enough to cover necessities like insurance, vehicle, rent, etc. I was reading an article a couple weeks ago about a married couple who spend their life traveling the world together and 100% of their income comes from working off of freelance sites writing software and blog articles. Every few weeks they're in a different city. Of course it said nothing about what they're doing to save for retirement, which is not cheap, but I guess they're young enough not to feel like they have to worry about that right now. Traveling isn't cheap though.

The other option is building a small group of like-minded folks who work together to meet everyone's basic needs - growing food, building houses, etc., to establish a self-sustaining community. But even with that you have to have some way to pay taxes on the land you're using, which means one person or the entire group has to produce something that pays that bill every year. And certain things that such a piece of land would require also require money. Installing solar panels on your house for example - illegal to do on your own in most areas, and it is not cheap to have it done. We're talking many thousands. And they tend to break pretty easily, which is another bill. You can't legally dig your own well anywhere in the US unless you're licensed to do so. And as I mentioned in a previous post, it is illegal to collect rain water in a lot of areas, especially in drought-prone areas like out west. Even in FL - probably the wettest state in the country - they have water restrictions, where you can't water your lawn on certain days, etc. 

You could move to some place like Belize or some island country where the cost of living is practically pennies a day, but those places are pretty much a Katrina away from being wiped off the map, so no thanks. I'll keep my happy white ass living right here being a debt slave for my AC and cable internet. And if anything major happens I'll just high-tail it back up to the Appalachian mountains and live off the land. That's where I was born anyway and if land prices weren't so high I'd still be there.

@RorrKonn
I never said you were self-employed, it was you who suggested that I was.  The closest anyone here has come to understanding anything, is Moriador, because although what she said doesn't explain everything to you, it explains the mindset.  I can't just show you a YouTube video that expalins everything, cause everyone is different, and what they unlimately choose to do is based upon what they've learnt over lots of videos, books, articles, discussions with other lifestylers etc.

@Shane
And it's the same with you, I can't just show you a book, there's no one book that'll teach you everything I've learnt about this stuff.  And no, I'm not living on "handouts" of any description, I told the benefits agency (literally) to go and fuck themselves three years back now.  My income right now is £0.  And all that stuff about you can't catch rainwater, you can't put up your own Solar Panels, you can't dig a water well.  Absolutely every one of those laws are a blatant demonstration of liberty-taking and freedom infringement of the highest order, and should not be tolerated under any circumstances.  But hey, land of the free and all that.

The only bill I'll ever have, is for internet access which will have to be done through 3G or whatever (and I can even wipe-out that bill if I wanted to).  Some people pay £50 for a meal, I could pay a whole years land rates for three properties in Europe for that amount.  Talking about this stuff with people who aren't into it is absolutely pointless because they do exactly what you've just done.  In your eyes I'd either have to live by method A or method B - but you're wrong - because you're unanware that there's a method C, D, E etc.

BTW, what's with Belize, what did you mean?

Sorry, forgot the language tag on that last one.

Belize

not that I'm suggesting anyone do this but people always say ya can take 20 grand to Mexico and live like a millionaire. 

we could sell a pig,cow n pay land tax and then some.

I got it figured out Pumeco is a elf ;) so he lives like a elf,I can understand that :)

@RorrKonn
I know where Belize is, lol, are you taking the piss or what? :-D

@Primorge
Yeah, and notice how the cop is enjoying every minute of it?

I'm not talking shit we know your an elf :) leather face Death himself provided the proof ;)

he don't even have a gun just a taser. 
read the car.community collage police is he a real cop or a rent a cop ?

rent a cop is U.S. slang for security guards hire buy the landlord/business that has no real authority.
they can't arrest ya.

@RorrKonn
I noticed the writing on the car, but all that did was make me suspect it was Leatherface in a costume.
He's probably been harassing college babes with his chainsaw!

Not related, but I just came across this and have to show it to you, look carefully and check-out the logo above the entrance!
As you can imagine, this lovely little GIF made my day :-D

Ah man, my fucking sides ...

I wonder how long this leatherface thing is gonna last for? That's me, the mindless sheeple muppet slave leatherface... hmmm, s'gotta nice ring to it.

I don't know, best ask RorrKonn about that, he's the one convinced you're Leatherface :-D

I hope you're kidding about the Apple thing though, you loose a lot of cool factor if you have an iPad.  Just the other day I saw a video that had nothing to do with Apple, and they were discussing someone who's so embarrased to have an iWatch they daren't even show it at work for fear of being laughed at.

They keep it well hidden.

On a more amusing note, I can imagine the manager of that store calling the bosses and saying:
"Hey boss, a bunch of sheep just entered our Apple store!"

I can imagine the response would go something like:
"Great stuff, business as usual then, keep it up!"

Horses like apple's to :)

real horses like real apples .ok bad joke.

you's posted the pic's so it's

Leather Face Death

Pumeco the Elf a.k.a apple hater.

from now on till the end of eternity or till I get thrown off this forum .witch ever comes first  :)

if I had a 9 to 5 job & if I had a ipone I wouldn't care what anyone else thought.

Out of curiosity, RorrKonn, what's the connection to an Elf? :-D

Nope no iphone or ipad, although there are a couple ipads in the house, not mine. I am a Mac user though, but I've been using this one for about 10 years. Probably before it was fashionable to hate apple so much. Prior to that I had a Mac too. I've never owned a windows machine (but there is one in the house). My first experience with computers was in the digital media lab at college, once I discovered you could make visual art and sound collages with them I was hooked. I would take digital sound design courses to mix it up a little with the traditional painting, drawing, and sculpture. The lab was all Mac, btw... as was the whole school. San Fran, go figure.

The 3d thing is a more recent interest, doesn't require as much in work/storage space and material as traditional sculpture.

I can understand that, Primorge, absolutely.

Believe it or not, although I've never owned an Apple product (and never will), there was a time when I used to admire Apple for their take on things, that less is more, think outside the box, all that sort of thing.  After Commodore went down with their Amiga (which is what I used to use before I had no choice but to move to a PC), the Mac looked enticing and very Amiga-like compared to a PC, but in the end I went with the PC simply due to fear of the Mac going the same way the Amiga did and my investment being wasted again.  I suppose you could say the unfortunate death of Commodore saved me from Apple.

It's kind of funny Pumeco, how Apple used the same marketing technique over 30 years ago, that you are now trying to use against it. Speaking of sheep...

I'm not sure if you have seen this advertisement from 1882 by Apple, basically the inference is that Apple will free you from the dominance and overbearing nature of big blue (IBM).  Basically connecting Big Blue as the hated authority figure (Big Brother) watching over and controlling you. Sound like a familiar call to action? Really this is a common technique for smaller competitors to use against the dominant market player. The only issue is that if you succeed in this strategy, a rethink of your branding is essential as you can't be an underdog that's on top. 

Really pro or con Apple, it's all just marketing, Apple are just another Tech company manufacturing tools for a market. Trying to paint Apple as Evil as opposed to any other tech company is just pure fiction. A little like saying I prefer Stalin's style of Fascism over Hitlers. It's all still fascism at the end of the day. Like or loathe it. Luddite or technophile. How is any of the tech you are using different to Apple's as far as manufacturing or implementation goes, to demark your tech as good in your eyes as oppose to Apples as bad? I have heard you write off the Apple mouse, the Apple mouse was the first home computer implemented mouse in the market. Anything else was copied from that apple design. You seem to have issue with designers using Apple, Apple basically invented Desktop publishing and was instrumental in the foundation of modern printing and design tools. Anything else either borrowed or stole from these early innovations, innovations like PostScript, Truetype font system or the Adobe suite (Apple was a major investor in Adobe for many years). Apple innovation paved the way for modern UI's, Tablets , Phones and a whole swathe of personal electronic devices. Like any other business it has its faults and struggles but there really is no other business like it in today's tech market as far as market saturation and unique innovation goes....

Unfortunately pretty much everything is marketing these days. Even to an extent the anti corporation movements. Stepping outside of the system is not as easy as you think. Being independent of the conventional workforce is a small step, but hardly an entire divorce. Take for example the inevitable eventuality of illness in one's life, you can live wild and free eating berries and make your clothing from squirrel hides if you choose to. But if/when you encounter serious illness where will you go? Would you rely on the commune Shaman using herbal remedies and chanting to administer your ills? Or perhaps prefer a doctor who was schooled by the system, administering medications created by the gigantic pharmaceutical industry that is supported by the system?

Also make sure you don't use the evils of the authority implemented OAP and NHS scheme's, which are payed for by taxpayers...

Pumeco the Elf : if you live like a elf,if you don't work like a elf,if you think like a elf, well then ... your a Elf :)

1984 one of the greatest movies ever made and all the sheep should half to watch that movie every day .
along with V and the rest.
but it hasn't been the gov's since the 18th centry ,it's big business.

The Mob Rules  

@Razor
Nope, not a sheep, I don't own an Apple device and never will (I'll stick to my independently and publicly audited hardware and software).   And you misunderstood what I meant by their take on things, it has nothing to do with their advertising, cause if I were a sheep and believed all that stuff, I'd have gone for a Mac.  What I liked about the Mac is that it was very Amiga-like in that the hardware was a fixed, custom design (just like the Amiga was), and I prefer that to a bit's'n'pieces system like a PC.  The PC has turned out to be exactly what I feared, a crumbling heap of incompatibility and poor performance-per-Hz.  Apple's single-button mouse was, and always will be, a stupid idea.  I don't care who invented the mouse - in fact it's all the more reason they should attempt to catch-up in that department then (or better still, just roll over).

BTW, I assume this is their latest attempt to shake-off thier "Big-Brother" image through psychology:
I wonder how many sheeple still haven't figured-out why Apple are so big on collecting data?

You know what the best and only way is to prevent this shit from happening with your data?
The best way to prevent them or anyone else selling it?  ... DONT GIVE IT TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!

As for the stuff about living an alternative lifestyle, your concern is touching, but I'm not in the least bit worried about health arrangements either, cause as with every other aspect of what I'll be doing, it's all worked out.  In fact, I'd only be worried if I had to rely on the NHS, which thankfully I won't as I won't be in the UK.

@RorrKonn
Can't I be a scarecrow instead? :-D
I'd be much happier with scarecrow!

What’s the Value of Creativity? - The Business of Life (Episode 3)

Hah, I don't need anyone to tell me about life, I already know, not only what it is now, but in the future too!

That said, I take back my comment about turning a gun on your gun-happy cops, but only if they're all like this one.  If your cops are like this guy, they deserve a medal, but I'm going to need more convincing than just a single video I'm afraid:

Its funny that your are concerned with Apple/(insert other corp name here) spying on you Pumeco, but you have left such a wide path across the internet, that with very little effort even a cursory search can find a wealth of personal information about you. If you are looking to protect your privacy you may need to unplug that computer and move to a cave somewhere.

Lol. You noticed that too Razor?

There's a big difference between what people willingly post on the internet, and what a-holes like Apple, Facebook, Google, and Microsoft datamine.

Basically I found your full name, your age. Where you live, Who shares occupancy with you, your phone number, your prefered types of camera, what OS you have, Software packages you prefer, etc etc ... ... All in about 15 mins without the need for you to use any Apple devices...

Expanding further on your sheep analogie, There's sheep and then there's black sheep. The black sheep is convinced that he is so different than rest of the flock, but in reality he is just different enough to stand out from the crowd and draw attention to himself. 

The thing with data mining is that the exceptions are what draws the most attention in analysis. So in effect trying, or making deliberate steps, not to be seen may just make you more obvious for anyone who cares or has reason to look. As in "Why doesn't he want to be seen? is a much more interesting question than "He doesn't care if he is seen." Kind of like running up high street yelling "Don't look at me!" the effect is that everyone will look. Where as walking calmly would draw little attention. Unless of course the intent is to draw attention to oneself....

So while others may be likened to sheep, don't mistake yourself for a lion just because you feel like you are doing things differently. We live in an age where we all live more similarly each day globally than ever before in human history, but at the same time we pride ourselves on being unique and individual above most other things. Targeted branding knows how to tap into this concept through somehow combining the urge to keep up with the Jones's while still creating association with individuality. Kind of like how some people want to be different, so they go get someone else's art tattooed on their arm just like millions of others are doing. Also just because you choose to keep up with the Smith's instead of the Jones's doesn't make you anymore unique just different.

Talking genetics wise, there are over 1 Billion sheep on the planet and only 23,000 lions left. It seems that size, strength and ferocity may ultimately be beaten, evolution wise, by bleating little white furballs that are on the menu for many other species. Ironic isn't it.

Razor42 How are you getting users full name, age ,location, phone number,  ?

lions n tigers are being killed off buy the most vicious animal on this planet, humans
if not for humans sheep would be no match for lions n tigers
just like lions n tigers are no match for greedy selfish humans

@ Rorrkonn

Anonymity is an illusion on the internet. Every bit of data you leave anywhere at anytime may place a breadcrumb that can be followed for those that know how to look. Over a period of time these breadcrumbs grow more numerous, and when brought together can make a whole loaf of bread. Giving a whole picture of a user. Pumeco rightly pointed out the only way to protect your data is to not give it away. Unfortunately, every time you interact with the internet and in some cases external sources that end up on the internet you are giving personal data away. It's not an Apple, Google or Microsoft issue its a modern communication's issue. 

You're right about Lions, Tigers and Humans too. But ultimately the most successful species are the ones that are most adaptable to change and secondly those that can influence things that are seen as dangers or threats and make them into assets aiding to their own long term success as a species. Part of the danger of humans as a species is that we have managed to step outside of the natural ecosystem's influences and balances. Have a look at prey and predator population systems in nature, they generally balance out pretty well in a boom bust type wave pattern over long periods. If you remove an Apex predator or a staple prey then the whole system can go off kilter for a while with devastating results for the entire ecosystem. What at first may seem as a boon for the rabbits with the lynx gone, may in time lead to disease and widespread starvation. But generally nature is all about balance. Dead rabbits mean the worms and micro organisms will eat well adding fertility to the soil promoting the next boom for another species.

Though Im not sure how pumping poison into water tables, deforestation and toxic waste will ever fit into natures balance. Let's face it if Aliens ever visited the earth ,with similar ethics and intentions for use of its resources as we have, we would see them as evil and fight them to the bitter end to "protect" the earth...

Razor Wrote:
"Basically I found your full name, your age. Where you live, Who shares occupancy with you, your phone number, your prefered types of camera, what OS you have, Software packages you prefer, etc etc ... ... All in about 15 mins without the need for you to use any Apple devices..."

1 - The stuff that corrupt governments put out there can be had on anyone by anyone, electrol registers, all that shit etc.
2 - Anything other than my name, age, and address, has been put there willingly be me, on forums, it wasn't datamined out of me and sold to you.

Pretty pointless trying to hide your name, age, and address on the internet considering you'd have to be a fraudster to be able to purchase something online otherwise, unless you relied on someone else to buy things for you.  You only know what things I like, the cameras etc, because I've willingly put that out there during discussions, you're talking about forum posts, they weren't leaked to you through a form of datamining.  All you had to do to find those posts about the cameras is search for pumeco, you were able to find this out thanks to Google's datamining.

Razor Wrote:
"Pumeco rightly pointed out the only way to protect your data is to not give it away."

Exactly, so while we can't stop certain things being published, those of use that are not sheep don't go around feeding Apple devices their fingerprints, face recognition, travel tracks, conversations, emails, voiceprints, health statistics and god knows what else they feed to those devices.

Info to be found on a General Citizen:
Name
Age
Address
Anything posted willingly by that Citizen

Info to be found on a Sheep Citizen:
Name
Age
Address
Health Statistics
Finger prints
Voice Prints
Face Recognition
Purchase History
Movement History
Conversation History
Etc ... etc ... etc...

And here's the bit you don't seem to grasp about my rants:  Even if they have no intention to sell this data, the fact remains that it is being recorded all by a single device and company, and stored.  The device is digital, therefore it can be hacked.  When this sort of data gets into the wrong hands they'll have more data then they could ever wish for.  Ironic then, that you agree with me that the best way to avoid this crap is to not give them this data in the first place.  It's like with those RadioShack fucks right now, I don't think it's right that their customers should be faced with the threat of having their data sold-off to the highest bidder.  The problem is that they've managed to slowly brainwash society into believing that you have to give-up your privacy or some other form of data, just to buy something from them.

WRONG:  It should that be they make something, you pay them money for it, deal over, with no privacy-invasion contract involved.  And if they don't work like that, simply avoid them.  Humans have a right to privacy, and that's all there is to it.  The selling of customer data should be illegal, they should not be allowed to specify the exchange of any customer data in any form, in any contract.  Being a sheep is a bad idea in todays datamining-friendly climate, because there's a big difference between data that is out there through all the government bullshit, and data that is willingly fed to companies by users of these devices.  Oh, and I couldn't care less whether protecting my privacy draws attention to myself, either.

@RorrKonn
Ah man, well look on the bright side, at least you know I'm not a teenager now :-D

Well we do agree on some aspects of it, But I have to say I don't share your impending sense of doom nor paranoia about the subject. I honestly can't work out if your serious or just trolling most of the time. But I guess if you believe USA is stocking up on plastic coffins for some kind of vagrant cleansing, it also stands to reason that you would believe Apple is the flagship of the evil empire rising. I just hope no one mentions the reptiloids amongst us... oops...

It's not paranoia, it's just that I have a zero-tolerance policy for getting used by datamining corporations.  But regards the other stuff, the doom, well I do have my suspicions although some of that was posted in humour ;-)

I'd love to be able to buy an iPad, but it ain't going to happen.  I did consider getting one and then disconnecting the communications circuit so that I could just use it as a handy little toy, there's some nice apps for it, I must admit.  Disconnecting that would mean that Apple can't datamine the iPad, but it would also mean I'd have no way to load apps onto it.  I even thought about 'Jailbreaking' one, but if did that, I'd be blocked from the App Store, again, rendering the thing useless.

I have no problem whatsoever going to a shop and buying one of those iTunes App Store cards, I can pay cash for it, same for the iPad itself.  But I'm not happy with their TOS and there is no way I'm agreeing to that sort of crap.  So without a way to load it with Apps without it being internet connected, it would be useless to me.  I've been wanting one for a while, ever since Korg released that MS-20 app for it, but like I said, privacy is more important to me than playing around with a nice app.

So, nothing I can do about that, it's just the way it is.

Here you go Pumeco, I just knocked this up for you :D

lol - So do you know of a way I could effectively put a dagger to their heart?
Buying a secondhand iPad and not letting them datamine is surely their worst nightmare ;-)

Well the thing is with any mining you need to find a worthwhile vein or its not really worth the effort.

There's no iSoulTap App (yet)( I think I might TM that it's got a good ring to it) so I'm not really sure what you're worried about them mining from you. What pizzeria you frequent, maybe?

Data mining doesn't overly worry me, I'm more worried about this, which is up the road from me.

Well, I'm not worried about them datamining anything from me (because they'll never get the chance) :-D

But it would be nice to have one, there's a few Apps I like from KORG and AKAI especially, and it would save me buying a Wacom as well.  My reasoning is that I could buy a secondhand iPad for less than a Wacom and be able to draw right on to the screen, and I've always wanted one of those Cintiq tablets but can't afford to be forking out for that sort of thng.  So I want one only if I can disable the datamining.

Almost everthing you do on those things is datamined, and the only way to cure those Reptiloids of their privacy-invasive fetish, is to cut their lifeline, which in the case of any of these devices, is it's ability to call home.  Cut that, problem solved, it means I get to use them, but they never get to use me.

Regards the pic, what a mess :-(

Well I think an Ipad without the Net or Apps is more like an Ibrick.

I have an Ipad2 I bought a few years ago on a whim. I never thought I would use it much. But I was wrong, I still use it every day, it's great for grabbing free wifi when you travel. I have plenty of Apps that fulfill very specific needs. I can use it for FPV with my drone. Sorting digital photos while I travel. Sure Apple may know a little bit more about me but nothing I wouldn't happily share anyways. Value for money wise it's been one of the best consumer electronic devices I have ever bought. Prolly not what you want to hear, but it's my honest opinion.

It's like I said to Primorge, I understand that, I know why people like them, I suppose I like them for the same reason.  But it's Apple themselves I don't like, they're just far too manipulative and privacy-invasive for comfort as far as I'm concerned.