I guess you just need to weigh up what you give for what you get and what you can live with.

I'm still trying to figure out how not caring about a company knowing ones shopping and entertainment preferences makes one a sheep...I'm inclined to think a person that's overly and pointlessly paranoid about such trivialities as more "sheep-like".

it's a big universe there could be aliens but I don't care if there's aliens.
if I'm driving down the road I don't stop n take the water out of a mud puddle n have a conversation with the birds.
I can't imagine why aliens would ever bother with us.
most intelligent life forms stay away from vicious animals.

just cause ya 30 in scarecrow years doesn't make ya 30 in human years ;)

I know if I get on the computer n web my info is open but no one likes others sticking there nose in ya business.
and if radio shack or who ever sells my info where is my money for it ?
if there using my info to make there money ,that's a thief steeling from me.

Well, ron, there's a whole line of thieves stealing from you before you even cash your check... modern living and whatnot. Take a number and have a seat, somebody will be with you shortly. Heard that from a little bird.

Excuse me, I meant "steelin from ya" ;)

@RorrKonn
Yup, they're stealing from you but you're powerless to do anything about it.  And it goes without saying, if they didn't have this data in the first place, you would not be in that situation and they would not be able to sell your data.

Imagine what Apple users are going to face if/when a massive data-breach at Apple occurs, doesn't even bear thinking about.

Primorge Wrote:
"I'm still trying to figure out how not caring about a company knowing ones shopping and entertainment preferences makes one a sheep ..."

Not caring doesn't make you a sheep, it just makes you ignorant of what goes on, but I'm not getting in to that, there's plenty off stuff on the web about it.  The sheep part comes from being sucked into willingly providing data that they want, data that no company should ever be in posession of.  The very fact that these corporations want this data, should be enough to tell you that you should not provide it.

The bit I don't understand is why fellow world citizens such as yourself, try to rationalise what these corporate assholes are doing.  I get that some people don't mind getting fucked-over by corporations, but that still doesn't explain why they can't see why other people have a problem with it.

I'm still not understanding how I'm getting fucked over by Google or whatever and what monetary loss I'm suffering. They might as well be collecting my dandruff... 

"They stole my dandruff those corporate scumbags!" 

I suppose if I had like no life and suffered from a paranoid, resentful persecution complex I might be concerned, probably not though... I think with my imagination such as it is I would come up with more colorful and particular delusions.

Pumeco, you've gone from what you've heard on conspirowhacko's paradise, to paranoia at it's worst.  What information is available on me, on line, I really  could give a shit less about, just not much less.  Name, address, phone number, occupation and who I worked for, big deal.  For whatever use they get out of it, it doesn't cost me anything an isn't going to make them a fortune without half a million more names.  And that's all public information anyhow, no problem about anyone getting it.  Background, if they want to pay for it, that's possible, but I hardly think two traffic tickets is going to give them much to work with.  Credit card, I don't use that on line, I'll look up what I want then phone in the order,  but only with people I trust.  Credit card is too easy anyhow, one call and say you didn't authorize the purchase and you won't pay for it. 

But as paranoid as you are, that only says you have something to hide.  None of the big companies are making squat on your information, maybe pennies per year or you're on a spam or mailing list.  Big deal.  "They're" out to get you.  Be afraid, be very afraid.  In the meantime, we can have a few laughs at you, not with  you.

Doric.

I give up, it's like talking to a bunch of lemmings.

You see pumeco, you insult people up and down and are surprised when there's a backlash. You seem to think that your opinions and preferences should be understood and yet you go out of your way to insult and belittle your audience. I think you're really just talking at people.

Lemmings? Lemmings plunge themselves to their deaths... I hardly qualify Google knowing that I occasionally visit SpankWire.com a lethal consequence. 

@Primorge
Yup, those poor lemmings, I remember the game well.

@RorrKonn
lol

 LMAO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsFVzywPNEc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fHYNMvcAhc

youtube is full of stupid people making Lemmings look smart

WTF, RorrKonn's post just switched position, the sly bastard, I answered him before he even posted :-D

ScareCrow it's magic :)

lemmings got a bad rap from a 1950ish disney documentary full of lies ,lemmings don't cliff jump or commit suicide. 

only species that does suicide is humans.ya know the intelligent species of earth ;)

Well at least I'm talented. And can spell. ;)

And have a job.

;)

I know a lot of my info is publick knowledge. n if they go look ,what every.
but if a back ground site charges them $$$ for my info well then the back ground check site owes me money for selling my info.
if radio shack sells my info for one hundredth of a penny they still owe me money.

and I never gave them permission to sell my info for any price.

Death ,if a word isn't spelled correctly it's the spell checkers fault ;)

Death ,wait ,what do you mean atleast ya talented ?

you implying a raccoon throwing trash every where is more talented then me ? ;)

You got me puzzled on that one dude.

it's a joke ;)

when this old timer was looking at abstract art he said looks like they tied paint brushes to the raccoons feet while they where digging threw the trash.

It's a popular misconception that many abstract painters are without foundation ability... Most of the famous ones could depict the figure and compositional arrangements quite well. Abstraction usually developed in their style as a transcendence, many times arising from a desire to break away from the constraints of the imaginary picture plane or as meditations on the canvas surface as a two dimensional plane rather than an illusionary, illustrative window.

But, I've met painters that weren't talented in the narrow sense that you define it... but wow could they paint some pretty fantastic abstractions, far better than you or I could produce. Developed style and practiced at their particular craft.

I recall you commenting that you haven't yet developed a recognizable style. I would argue this. But in your terms, at your age, it's not likely to ever happen if that's the way you see it. I would also argue that your conviction that any artist can become as skilled as any other is a fallacy... There are different levels of natural ability that no amount of practice can achieve. 

You're being extremely rude, Primorge, and for what it's worth, RorrKonn is right, they do owe him money if they sell his data.  He never gave them permission to either store it or sell it, therefore it is illegal to do so.  Again, you are favouring those scum over a fellow citizen, you need to stop doing that.  They should not be doing what they are doing, and what RorrKonn said, is correct, even if he did blow a few more spell-checkers in the process.

Stop sucking-up to illegal corporate scum in order to rationalise your own inability to resist their temptations.

...and in what context was I supposed to understand doomsayer Pumeco's comment that I and others are Lemmings? What's the first thing that comes to mind? That I'm a migratory small furry creature? ;)

Oh OK pumeco, "I need to stop doing that"

Make me.

Nobody can stand you around here. Bottom line.

I'll do whatever I want. Some crybaby delusional dweeb in england can't do anything about it. Forgive me if I don't conform to your world view, you don't own freedom.

You've just made yourself a lasting enemy dude. You have insulted me one too many times after I've warned you nicely. You're too busy running your mouth to notice such things though.

Added to ignore.

Pumico, laughing AT you, not with you.  Har har har hardy har har.

Doric

@Primorge
Dude, just one look at me and you'd need medication to stop you from shitting yourself (not kidding).
Be careful where you hurl empty threats, cause when I make them, they're not empty.

@Doric
You're brave, I'll give you that.

Death ,ScareCrow I take it the band broke up ,I really hate that.

I guess with egos like ares it was inevitable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6bFTVi0hHs

Here's something for you, pumice.  Only makes four times as much sense as you ever had.

Still laughing At you and not with you.

Doric.

Death shatter was about the 5th 100% 2D Art I've ever done.
and first one done in MS5.If I would have stayed with 2D paintings.
I'd say at about 50th I would have a style and buy the 200th I would be at Royo's n Boris's level.

back in the day I had a pencil style but I've done 1000's pencil drawings.
but it's been 20 years since I've done pencil drawings that styles gone now ,covered in rust.

Don't get me wrong I love making 2D Art ,it's a lot of fun. I can still make textures with MS5.
I was going to let 3D go I didn't even get Z4R7 and just make a 2D comic.
this may sound insane but I can't survive with out my 3D.Z4R7 is wicked.
I would literally die with out my 3D.

The great old mediums,2D n 3D Artist impress me.
They inspire me to be as great as them.in my 3D medium.
it's cool that Abstract Art is there thing it's just not my thing.

@RorrKonn
As with thieves, there's usually honour among artists.
I reckon he should stop insulting you.

@Lemming #A240151080
Carry on.

At times like these, I like to put on a good vinyl, helps me to think clearly:

I got a scarecrow guarding my garden and a Attack ScareCrow guarding me at Renderosity :) who needs insurance ;)

I feel like a kid in a divorce but i'm not taking sides I'm cool with both ScareCrow and Death. 

Still hate the band broke up :(

@RorrKonn
I doubt the band has broken-up, I think it's more a case of Primorge has broken-down.
Hopefully it's a temporary thing.

Or perhaps not, he's not said a word since, so ...

Primorge Wrote:
"Make Me"

Sure, that can be arranged (if that's what you want), just say the word.
Can you beg in Chinese, Mr. Chainsaw?

@TheSheeplePeople
Here's a vid for you to suck on, I suppose one could call it a little "keynote" from the non-gullible dweebs:

• What do ya want?
• When do ya want it?
• How do ya want it?
• Who's ya daddy?

And when the copropate scum aren't busy brainwashing their sheeple at a keynote event, they're out there on the streets, in force, trying their best to do illegal price-fixing and getting pretty pissed off when they fail to get away with it.  Click Here for corporate scum trying to do what "Only Apple Does Best", look closely at the picture, and with a little luck, you just might spot something.  And yup, betchya they didn't point that one out in their keynote, huh?

And just in case you missed it: Click Here

Naturally there are sheeple who will still side with these corrupt, liberty-taking, privacy-invasive, bastards.  But as was pointed out to you, it's those sheeple who will pay the price when the inevitable happens, and we'll see who's laughing at who when it does.  It's one thing to be a sheep, but it's another to try and mock those that aren't sheep in order to justify your sheepish behaviour.  It's even worse to go on the attack and insult others just because your stupidity is beginning to show.

The solution is simple, don't be a sheep, that way, you don't need to justify being one - it's that simple.

People aren't sheep because they don't follow your paranoia, pumice.  Was your mother scared by an apple while she was carrying you?  Were you born paranoid or did you take lessons?  Keeping information on people, gathering information is something well perfected long before the Roman empire, get used to it. 

But if you want something to worry and be paranoid about, did you know that Planet Earth is a moving target in a cosmic shooting gallery?  That the only question about the next extinction causing impact with an asteroid is when? 

A proper place for you to post, if it still exists, is alt.usenet.kooks, which you might find entertaining, if you can still find a newsreader to play there.  But don't be too surprised if you're awarded the KOTY award. Work hard and you might make KOTM, an award not given lightly. 

The one thing an alcoholic can't stomach is a teetotaler.  The only thing a paranoid can't stomach is someone that isn't paranoid.  A conspirowhacko can't stand people that have enough sense to think things through and discard the theory the whacko is trying to convince thinking people is a thing.  The only problem is you have both feet firmly embedded in your mouth, made more uncomfortable by having your cranium firmly embedded in your rectum.  Doesn't that make walking difficult?

If you don't like Apple, then don't buy it and leave people that like it enjoy what they have without your irritating and senseless raving.  Or, immigrate to the U.S. and join the tea party, you'll find thousands you'd fall in with perfectly.

Doric. (still laughing AT you, not with you.)

A Lemming Wrote:
"The only problem is you have both feet firmly embedded in your mouth, made more uncomfortable by having your cranium firmly embedded in your rectum.
Doesn't that make walking difficult?"

Carry on.

Pumeco have you ever had a chance to read Don Quixote?

Don Quixote tired of the wrongs in the world sets out to save us all from the it's evils inspired by something chivalrous he read. He adores and champions a Peasant girl named Dulcinea Del Toboso. Quixote doesn't adventure alone he has long suffering sidekick named Sancho who always seems to bear the wrath of those that Don Quixote offends through his "noble" acts. Don Quixote is known as a story of someone with the best intentions and honourable intent battling what most others believe to be illusionary evils. The term "Tilting at windmills" was coined from the book. Tilt is in the jousting sense and in the book Don Quixote mistakes some windmills for ravenous giants and proceeds to attack them full gusto.

For some reason I found all of this quite humerous :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

Razor42 since I don't have time to read the book .

what's the moral of the Don Quixote story ?

Well it's not really a straightforward answer, some say that Don Quixotes outlook on life though slightly comical adds magic, that in reality life is what you make it or how you perceive it. Meaning that if you are happy in life just because others believe you shouldn't be or should have reason not to be, it doesn't mean you need to listen to them and become unhappy just to agree with them. Or even, if you are sad and everyone says you should be happy, it doesn't make it so.

Also you could take that there really is no need to make up artificial monsters in life just because you are bored, even if you truly believe those monsters really exist. Maybe the monster exist more because you need them to, rather then there is any real evidence of their actual existence. In Don Quixotes mind he is a valiant champion and his peasant girl a princess most fair. Others perceive him differently, as a bit of a fool and his love as a tavern whore, which is correct?

Also another interpretation is that maybe you should listen more to the general consensus of what really is or isn't a monster. The trouble is, is that if you continue to believe something is still a monster even if everyone else doesn't see it as such. People will begin to perceive you as slightly crazy or paranoid. It doesn't mean you are not right or wrong or not allowed to believe that something is a monster, it just makes you different and stand out. Fear is normal, fear of harmless things or exaggerated fear of things is perceived as abnormal or as a phobia or paranoia.

I guess it's a pretty mixed bag, but worth a read if only of the synopsis.

@Razor42
I haven't read it, but it sounds interesting.

But discussing this stuff with people like Doric is completely pointless because all he is out to do, is let his mouth loose, basically, cause he enjoys doing it.  He's been told like a hundred times it has nothing to do with paranoia.  There is no reason for me to be paranoid about Apple, because I don't use their fucking devices.  He called me a "conspirowhacko" yet again, and didin't even realise that their illegal price-fixing is not a conspiracy.

The solution to all this shit is simple; we need a ban on all forms of virtual music, film, and books if a price is charged for it.  And for anyone found ignoring it, a nice hefty fine and definite closure.  You want to sell music, video, or a book?  Great, that's what a functioning economy is all about, so no matter whether you're an indie or a mega-corp, do it through physical means that aids the economy instead of aiding corrupt fuckers like Apple.  Problem solved, businesses built, jobs created, corrupt fuckers eliminated.  The money they are currently sapping-up like a sponge, would be distributed evenly once again, just like it used to be before their fucking iPods arrived, just like it use to be when we had a functioning economy and had no fucking iPods, touch devices, or "smart" phones.  The only unfortunte thing about Jobs' death is that it wasn't early enough, it's a shame the fucker didn't croak before the first iPod arrived.

The problem, the real reason people don't like to read these things is because it makes them feel stupid.  If you own an Apple product, the last thing you want to be told is that you made a mistake.  But what people forget is that no one has EVER, repeat EVER laughed at a person for being wise enough to rid themselves of crap they could do without.  The only people who get laughed at are those that have made a mistake, are shown proof that they made a mistake, but they still continue with it.  Those are the only ones that get laughed at, and that is the reason the internet is flooded with Anti-Apple mocking, it's because sheep are the closest analogy to such behaviour - it's the perfect analogy.  I'm not the only one who rants about this stuff, there are millions of us with common sense, some of us do it on the streets, some of us do it on YouTube, some of us do it here - some don't say a word cause they lack a conscience.

Apple were caught-out doing illegal price-fixing, and the reason it's illegal is because it's economy-destroying.  Had any small company done what they did, they would be closed down and thrown behind bars.  So tell me, why are the corrupt fuckers behind Apple's price-fixing attempts still walking the streets?

They should be treated as any other American citizen would be, and that means getting the corrupt fuckers slammed-up behind bars where they belong.

Regards Peasant Girls;  I'll probably read the book for that aspect alone when I find the time.  I adore Peasant Girls, I have over 20 of them, in fact Michele on this forum is one of my Peasant Girls, she was my first Peasant Girl.  I feel like I've neglected them for a few years now, but it wasn't intentional.  I love my Peasant Girls, and they have a revenous sexual appetite, so me neglecting them for so long only makes me feel extra bad :-(

Here's a love song for my long-neglected Peasant Girls, because they're so sweet (uses physical analogue synths because purity matters):

"The solution to all this shit is simple; we need a ban on all forms of virtual music, film, and books if a price is charged for it.  And for anyone found ignoring it, a nice hefty fine and definite."

So your a luddite then Pumeco? Hell, look how many jobs computers have taken all those mail men, file archivists, paper manufacturers etc etc should we smash all our computers too or is this just an Apple specific issue you think? What about digital cameras all those film manufacturers, 24 hour photo service joints should we smash our evil soul stealing devices(cameras) to? What about cars, all those farriers fodder growers and blacksmiths. Sigh. Mass manufacturing? Wheat threshers? Telephones....

@Razor
I don't mind being called a luddite, not at all, as long as what I'm proposing is conductive to a healthy economy - and it is.

We have laws for everything except where there should be one, a sort of  'Law of Automation'  which sets out limits to ensure that only unhealthy, dangerous, or otherwise impossible jobs are permitted to replace a human with a machine.  It is automation and corruption made possible by digital platforms that is bringing the economy to it's knees.  Books, films, music, those things can all be distributed by physical means without the need for automation, therefore the "Law of Automation" would not permit this role to be manned by any sort of robot, physical or digital.  Printing the cover of a vinyl record, for example, would be permitted by a machine, because humans can't mass produce prints by hand.  What would not be permitted, however, is for that printing machine to be automated without the need for a human being employed to manage it, to refill it's ink, or to quality control and inspect the output on the production line etc - those things can be done by a human, therefore a machine should be illegal under the law of automation.

It's the simplest equation of all (and one that cannot be gotten away from):
Automation = no jobs = a failing economy (which is what we have).
No automation = humans required = lots of jobs = a heathy economy (which is what we need).

So lets take a look at just a single download from iTunes:

• Select Song, pay Apple, done (and you have been for paying money for something you don't own, have no control over, and cannot resell).
• Automated cash transaction complete, cheers sucker.

Now let's take a look at what would happen if the iTunes bullshit were banned and you were forced to buy physical:

• Jobs available at the press of a vinyl pressing plant.
• Jobs available at the machinists who make the pressing machinery that press the vinyl.
• Jobs available at the couriers who deliver the machinery to the pressing plant.
• Jobs available at the printing plant that make the covers for the vinyl.
• Jobs available at the paper manufacturers that make the paper that is used to make the covers for the vinyl.
• Jobs available at the manufacturers of turntables that are required to play the vinyl.
• Jobs available at the component manufacturers who make the components that get fitted to those turntables.
• Jobs available at the music store that needs to exist in order to sell the vinyl.
• Jobs available at the Hi-Fi store that needs to exist to sell the turntables that play the vinyl.

... you get the idea, and for CD.

• Jobs available at the manufacturer of the CD pressing plant.
• Jobs available at the manufacturer of the CD players that are required to play the CD.

... etc.

All of that stuff can be wiped out by a single automated server that sucks-up cash and channels it to Apple HQ.  Sure, there's more to it than that, but in a nutshell it should be perfectly clear why these systems are destroying the economy - and will continue to do so for as long as they're allowed to exist.

Guess I'll stick to being a luddite then ;-)

Pumice, sorry to inform you, but I don't own any Apple devices.  Apple is a company, not a conspiracy.  Yes, there is a small but vocal group of sheep, and you're one of them.  (And as long as I'm at it, I don't click on any of the crap you post, I don't know what's hiding in it and I don't want to find out.)  There is such a thing as "reality", maybe someday you'll discover it but I have my doubts.  Paranoid conspirowhackos don't like reality, it interferes with their view of the world.  Nobody cares how you see it, your opinion counts only to you, the rest of us go about our way and let you take your bamboo stick and joust with tanks. 

Perhaps you've never heard the old saying "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  It fits.  Perfectly.  Still laughing AT you and not with you.

Doric.

It would be a massive step backwards in my opinion and not for the better to see implementation of the draconian type laws like you're suggesting.

There is no denying that at the heart of your issue there is a very real problem. ie the slow of employment growth compared to most first world countries steady increase in GDP. Creating a disparity between the two which manifests in higher unemployment.

While potentially the cause is likely be connected to Technological changes, Apple would be just the tip of a very recent iceberg. The concept of technological Unemployment has been around since the luddites destroyed the first mechanical looms for fear of their livelihood. Mechanisation of Agricultural and mass manufacturing sectors dwarves any losses in the media industries to a point of making them almost irrelevant. In the UK in the 1800's 22% of the population worked in agriculture in the US it was 80%, by 2000 the agricultural sector employs less than 1% in the UK and 2.6% in the US. Manufacturing in the UK in 1841 employed 36% of the workforce in 2011 it had declined to 9% some of the biggest movement in this sector was in the 90's before Apple had even launched the Ipod. The main reason for this shift was mechanisation of implements and assembly lines.

The UK has been transitioning for a long time from a manufacturing and agricultural base to a services base for employment.

The point is that employment has always been in flux, change in this sector is not a new issue it's a very old one. And will likely always be an issue to some degree. Well at least till someone invents a warp drive and replicators.

If you really believe what you are saying you should lead the way by smashing your computer as the Luddites did. What your talking about isn't an Apple issue it's a computer issue. Computer and computer controlled robots are going to make the damage you're talking about look like a tickle on the balls of the workforce. The below report suggests that computers may push unemployment as high as 75% by the end of the century.

Myself, personally think there are better ways forward than becoming a technophobe, some answers are slowly emerging, some totally unknown. But if you look at history very rarely is the way forward found by going backwards.

So which is it Pumeco are you going to stand by your words and be a hypocrite? Or take a hammer to that computer you're typing on and save the workers.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/50-percent-unemployment-robot-economy-2013-1

Excerpt:

Smarter computers mean that any mid-paying job that involves a routine: data entry, number crunching, operations, and so on, will be replaced as well, which will remove a big piece of the approximately 7 million business and financial operations jobs that exist in the United States. 

When you add all of that up, some think 50 per cent unemployment is optimistic. Software entrepreneur Martin Ford predicts something closer to 75 per cent unemployment by the end of the century. “The vast majority of people do routine work,” Ford says. “The human economy has always demanded routine work.”  And eventually, that work won’t be done by humans.

Pommelhead, you're fixating on one insignificant part of the economy.  Take away all of the entire music industry, it wouldn't be a noticeable bump in the overall economy.  If you don't like how it's being done, then use your own native suppliers.

OH, wait.  Wasn't it a group, I think called the beatles, or beetles that made poor voices singing cheap ditties to poor accompaniment acceptable as long as they look weird?

However, take away one thing that originated on your side of the pond, called ISO certification, and you remove ten times as much waste from the economy and the one you're so in a tizzy about.  For those that don't know about ISO, it's a system that in effect says it's perfectly okay to produce and sell unworkable shit as long as that shit is well documented.  It doesn't set any quality standards, it only requires a highly paid "consultant" and has no teeth at all. 

Still laughing AT you and not with you.

Doric.

I take it neither of you heared the news that I got elected then.