Sure they will be forced to change there marketing >strategies one day or another,

A good marketing strategy is vital but eventually the potential buyers are going to make a price vs feature comparison . This is where poser runs into trouble as it offers nothing that is not available in its lower or similarly priced competitors.

Time will tell what position Poser will have in the future.

I can only contribute with the advanced models that I create awake a little the interest to customers, what potential Poser is actually having. Like you say it has nothing other programs do not have, but it has a wide range of hidden integration because most part of poser is build up using open source features. So the range of possibilities is not limited. Poser woks on the same principal like Blender with pyton integration giving a extreme wide range of possibilities.

If the owners act stupid and limit there flexibility then it might just end up as history. Right now they do not seem to have eaten Intelligence with a teaspoon. In one way it might be just ok the way it goes right now, the more people lose interest the more the Possibilities that it will be free and that the Call home will be removed.

Meanwhile I just continue to expand the Bridges and the rigging development for Poser to a extreme level :) and this can not be beaten by DS atm.

@ wolf359

I do like the work you are doing in your creations and Clips, they are amazing. Showing a great level of know how ....

Look, with the fitting and setup rooms, Poser content is unlimited. I convert Genesis 8 and Genesis 3 hair, shoes, and clothing to my Poser figures all the time. With Head Shop and each figure's head and body morphs, I can recreate (for my own use) any character made for the Genesis figures (I use Head Shop for Mac, which creates a morph for Genesis 2 F/M, but the product exists for Windows for La Femme and L'Homme). Not that I bother; I don't generally care for the characters and use real models instead. Yeah, it takes some work. But once I convert a garment or shoes for La Femme, it's a simple matter to rig it again for PE and Genesis 2, which I do for everything. I rig hair for V4 using a similar V4 hair style as the donor for rigging and morphs and then use it on every character in my cast. Genesis 8 has face rigging. Whoopdy doo! So do La Femme and PE.

I will admit that for me, the upgrade path to Poser 12 is a non-starter because it kills too many of the python scripts I use daily. In that sense, Poser is dead to me. But anybody who really enjoys exercising the power of the program for rendering pictures will find it never actually dies. And I've happily paid for that program for years.

I wish I could do it the opposite way and export my models to Daz studio, but how hard I try I never get the correct results. It breaks my rigging every time ! I know that Daz Studio supports this Weight Map Technologie but something is just preventing the Import of the models. Would it work I could make it for both Poser And Daz !

To Import from Ds to Poser there is actually no Problems for any model.

And yes that Pyton issue sure is a loss of updates made the past Decades restricting the creation workflow in any level. It would take Decades again to integrate all the missing parts into Poser 12

I convert Genesis 8 and Genesis 3 hair, shoes, and clothing to my Poser figures all the time. Look, with the fitting and setup rooms, Poser content is unlimited......I can recreate (for my own use) any character made for the Genesis figures (I use Head Shop for Mac, which creates a morph for Genesis 2 F/M, but the product exists for Windows for La Femme and L'Homme)........... **Yeah, it takes some work. **

Work that 99.99 percent of the poser user base would likely never undertake from what I have observed.

And most of what you describe would be a non starter for any potential new content vendor, due to copyright issues, even if poser was free as suggested by the OP.

Genesis 8 has face rigging. Whoopdy doo! So do La Femme and PE

I personally think that face rigs are largely useless for the still render Portrait/pinup crowds that dominate the poser/Daz user base and not really any incentive for a content provider.

Except the genesis face rig now support the FACS Standard and there are Iphone Face capture Plugins for animated filmmakers to use Genesis 8. ..as does the Iclone/CC3 natives by default.

Character Animation is everywhere and those trying to compete in the 3D Character market, who ignore, it do so at their own peril.

Seriously Wolf, does Iclone or Daz pay you for these surreptitious advertising posts? They should.

Features matter ..trying to have a software discussion without mentioning the features/tools in the current market is just an excercise in subjective fanboy validation.

I and many others left Maxon C4D for Blender based on Price/ feature comparison.

Poser is not immune from such comparisons and BTW , Iclone/CC3 is sold in the RMP. That income helps poser development.

wolf359 posted at 8:30AM Wed, 28 April 2021 - #4417882

Features matter ..trying to have a software discussion without mentioning the features/tools in the current market is just an excercise in subjective fanboy validation.

I and many others left Maxon C4D for Blender based on Price/ feature comparison.

Poser is not immune from such comparisons ...

Except you're not really comparing... you're touting. And you do it constantly. Plus it all seems to go in one direction. I don't think I've ever heard you say anything that you think Poser does better than or even as good as Iclone or Studio.

Technically the poser morph brush is better at fixing poke thru on an improperly modeled clothing item than those lame arsed Dformers in daz studio.

But I model my clothing correctly in blender in the first place for CC3 or back when I still used Genesis so its moot?

For the hundreth time, Poser is dead, Poser isn't good enough at anything.

That's really tiring...

I've googled "Character Creator 3", stumbled upon a first word: free. I know for sure that since men are doing business that free is almost always too expensive. But, I took a look. and? Yes, it looks awesome, but rapidely I found a price: 199$.

Looking at the video which is demonstrating the marvelous, incredible, best-of-the-world solution, and rapidely some prices are listed, very fast: 79$, 119$, 99$. ...

Clearly, this is for professionals. Certainly fantastic, incredibly real-looking, etc... But for professionals. Not for a lot of people like me...

Oh and.. Wolf: I am sorry but I am among those poorly-equipped people (when it comes to the brain...) who loves to do not only pinups, but still pictures, because it's difficult to tell a story with only one still picture. Clearly, you and me don't belong to the same world. I am not interested in creating my own "Avatar" movie at home. Like many people, it remains a hobby...

Nothing important, yet, remains specifically for Poser, in terms of positiveness, except maybe hope. So why are you still there, speaking of the best sowftwares? As you said: it is dying. No future. Dead.

The big advantage of Poser is that it has the option having a large amount of standalone figures that are fairly easy to create with outstanding results. People are fixed at Clones or morphs like in DS, causing that standalone models get very rare, ok poser does not have many creators at the moment, but what you can do in a few days in poser would take you weeks if not month in Daz studio. It probably would not even be possible atm!

This is a model that I am about to release containing over 220 bones ( Articulations ) including facial articulations. A Render needs more then just a Pretty doll, Daz studio might be great as there allot of creators on it but tell me how many pages do you have to scroll to find a Standalone figure with it's own articulation system not based on a Genesis? Poser has the option due the built in engine to make it possible just the Creators forgotten about it as they fallow the costumers and these naturally picked the Free choice of DS.

If Rendo would just make a small smart step and listen a little what people have to say then Poser might have a good chance again. You can't teach on how to do it if there are no students that want to learn.

Ok ... it is not a pretty Poser figure, but it is bad ass, offering something else then the usual pretty dolls that are released in masses. Another big advantage that Poser has to offer. Well customers are missing a byt but that might change with time, Important is just to release stuff that Ds has not to offer, making them say " I wish it was for DS "

And Bondware should really start working a little on there marketing system ! Not just building up the Rendo Store into Poser as if there are no new models in the Store it would be a big waist of energy.

Congrats, Summoner-Creations.. Wow

@Summoner-Creations Amazing. Stunning work.

Thank you !

It is actually what I mean, Poser has a extreme potential, sure there are allot of other high end programs I also need these to be able to get good models done. Somehow Poser stud still as Creators stopped to make further creations and developments. Right now Creators are just stuck in these Triax capsule WM rigging that is causing often breaks in Joints, like the shoulders , Thigh, Knee, Elbows and even Fingers. But there is way more and it was already introduced in Poser 2014! since then I am working on these Bridges, Learning every day . So Woow there are no more Issues with these Joints you can also mix between Hard shell and soft bending, all in one Figure, without breaks or distortions.

Not even DS reached this level as it still is using triax. But Poser Can and it is what really makes big fun. Once you get such a figure in your hands , realizing woow smooth shoulder bending , no breaks , no fix needed then you sure realize how great it is to work with a 3D model.

Last night I worked on a Freebie .... A dead Creature on a pedestal , actually Dead so enough to be static ! The creature has a complex body like the one above, just that it has gotten Claws like spider legs on each side of the chest. But still Dead , so thinking lazy no need to be rigged. I still thought it might be a little boring so I just loaded a set of Bones! first on the Left side and the center. I quickly named them and set the hierarchy, a half hour of work. Then I just hit to mirror set to Right as we want both sides to be working right. After renaming the right side I just had to hit "enter" ... all bending all Groups are created with just the enter button. Back to the bridge in Poser ! a little test and it bends like a charm, No Breaks , nothing needs to be fixed just have to adjust the Joint orientations.

all this took about an hour , faster then your Render! Faster then your Artwork setup, Something that DS sure can't do and I mean that is real Power and fun to work with.

But since all stud still since 2014 allot of creators thought to jump on DS they never realized what poser really is capable of they did not even try so how could they know how easy it can be !

Summoner-Creations posted at 10:10AM Thu, 29 April 2021 - #4417962

Last night I worked on a Freebie .... A dead Creature on a pedestal , actually Dead so enough to be static ! The creature has a complex body like the one above, just that it has gotten Claws like spider legs on each side of the chest. But still Dead , so thinking lazy no need to be rigged. I still thought it might be a little boring so I just loaded a set of Bones! first on the Left side and the center. I quickly named them and set the hierarchy, a half hour of work. Then I just hit to mirror set to Right as we want both sides to be working right. After renaming the right side I just had to hit "enter" ... all bending all Groups are created with just the enter button. Back to the bridge in Poser ! a little test and it bends like a charm, No Breaks , nothing needs to be fixed just have to adjust the Joint orientations.

all this took about an hour , faster then your Render! Faster then your Artwork setup, Something that DS sure can't do and I mean that is real Power and fun to work with.

But since all stud still since 2014 allot of creators thought to jump on DS they never realized what poser really is capable of they did not even try so how could they know how easy it can be !

I will be one of your first customer when you release your character. They are amazing. Lovecraft style which i really love a lot. I agree, Poser has huge potential. But you have to make your hands dirty and dig in. I use Poser since very long and even when I move to another software too, Blender, Unreal and even DS, which I really like actually. But Poser is like an old friend to me, come always back to him LOL.

Yes, back in the distant past, I got freebie Poser_3 off a PC Mag's cover disk, fell in love, bought P_4. But, Poser is now such a complex beast that I'd hesitate to suggest what a free version should include, dare not exclude...

Sadly, what I'd leave out would only be stuff I do not yet use, but hope to learn...

Slightly tangential, I keep pleading for Poser's FBX figure import system to be fixed. Currently, too many rigged models appear as a mob of hierarchy-swamping sub-rigs or simply 'go splat'. Very few figures import 'correctly' correctly, so poseable beyond minimal. Beyond rare, almost honorary exceptions, only 'Maya Rigged' models seem reliable. Perhaps because they've licensed the Autodesk SDK, while the others are merely open-source, reverse engineered ??

And what of free 'Make Human' FBX figures ? Reliable Poser import of those would flabbergast DAZ, especially if Poser's clothing tool could dynamically clad them...

Is there a non-migraine-inducing rig editor that could sanitise a generic 'columnar' FBX to a proper 'cascading' hierarchy ??

IMHO, extending Poser import to eg PMX and XPS would open up a zoo of free and budget characters & accessories...

Also, Poser should publicise the little-known render queue, which allow brisk, CPU-only network rendering of scenes far beyond the capacity of even high-end GPU cards. A relevant forum would help ?

I do have DS and I do buy DAZ items, preferably heavily discounted. Most are very nice props, which I 'rip' or otherwise export to a portable format such as OBJ+MTL which I may edit. And I collect budget DS figures against the hope that I may export as Poser-compatible FBX or as OBJ etc to re-rig for Poser...

As you've probably gathered, my watching for aerial porcines is a lonnnng game...

@ NikKelly

Actually I work with Groboto, LW, Carrara and Blender . All work just fine bridging with Poser sending for the rigging back and forth. What I can tell FBX is an option but not the best choice. Sure PMX and XPS would be an option but it would result being a real mess as of it might subdivide your Body Parts and you would end up with a load Conformed Parts. Your whole rigging would explode like stepping on a Land Mine LOL, you could not merge the parts also not to forget a smooth subdivision would also rip apart the polygons as these mostly are not Merged. You have no alternative then to rebuild the whole Polygon surface to have a clean mesh, a main reason why FBX can cause issues.

Not the FBX it self is the issue but how the mesh surface is build up and where the geometry coordinates are of the Parts you Import , Import is always zero of the geometry , allot of times it is not how you see it while you work on it. So from my experience there is nothing to be fixed :) it all works like a charm. It is not the version you use to Import it is how you build the Bridge between the Import and Poser.

This is the figure I am working at , like mentioned it is fully rigged in 1 hour and Poser ready. Had no time today to work on it, so will work a little on the texturing and Adjust the Joint orientations before I release it .

And NikKelly stay on it I am sure you are going to figure out a good way as it all works like a charm ....

The figure ? WOW. Just, WOW. My compliments.

thank you @ NikKelly

this one is a release that I am about to make .... a little more colorful and not that much horror style. I mean sure a reason to think of using Poser. And might also make renderosity a little aware that it would be worth Improving a little there marketing strategies towards the Creators, vendors and customers overthinking all the proposals that have been made as the RMP Poser sections are really slowing down more and more. Already just by removing that call home system would be a great gesture showing that they do not fallow the old Smith micro Strategies.

Summoner-Creations posted at 5:16AM Sun, 02 May 2021 - #4418164

thank you @ NikKelly

this one is a release that I am about to make .... a little more colorful and not that much horror style. I mean sure a reason to think of using Poser. And might also make renderosity a little aware that it would be worth Improving a little there marketing strategies towards the Creators, vendors and customers overthinking all the proposals that have been made as the RMP Poser sections are really slowing down more and more. Already just by removing that call home system would be a great gesture showing that they do not fallow the old Smith micro Strategies.

This one is Epic!!!! Battle Dragon.

Long live Poser!

Thought I recognised that earlier model. Elemental Wraith on Sacrificial Altar from the game Doom (2016). Screenshot -

Also see the Doom Wiki here and the work of ID concept artist Emerson Tung here.

... no wonder my mind kept going back to a phrase about a dog that barks too much... ?

Well these are Fan Art , and really not easy to make as there full rebuild. the very hard part is the rigging and adaption into Poser , something not many are capable of doing ! especially when it comes to Weight map rigging without using capsules.

Allot of people just think hey it is a copy so it is not a big thing to do , but well if it were that easy then there would not be any need of creations anymore and People could just do it all with ease :) But for sure you need years of experience just like a Painter that is capable of Painting a House he is seeing or the Mona Lisa

So I really hope that this is not to be trying to flame, without being capable of presenting something of better quality ! Poser does not need People that just bark around making it even worse it rather needs any support it can get , so tying to to Blacklist the few creators that are left sure is a totally unproductive way. It happen allot of times and see now what is left !

Might be in good tone to mention they're fanart before you go showcasing them all proud-like. Rigging is an art in itself, but then you gotta mention that's the part you take credit for when you say you made it.

And I say that as a person who has BOTH made fanart and completely original things (but then again, when I make fanart I try to turn things into my style...)

@ Carrison I might of understand you wrong and I hope that I do, but if I don't then you could make such a fully rigged Fan art Rebuild as it sounds so easy to be done ! Beat me ! and show me that you can do it better. I would even help you out and send you a HD model mesh you just need to Weight map it for Poser :) so no big deal at all

I would say to be productive is the better choice then contra productive Poser has a high potential with just not enough Creators.

... and we're gone down to the argument "if you can't do it better then you can't critique". Lovely.

Ok, here we go:

-Fanart is FINE, as long as you're not making a profit from it

-Fanart should be clarified as fanart

-I don't know what you're doing with those, but I hope you're not selling those models, and if you're redistributing them for free, I hope you're marking them as non-commercial

-Poser and DS have had a history of people copying and plagiarizing designs from games, movies, anime etc and THAT has given both of them a bad reputation all around the art communities only as if we're all hobbyist plagiarists claiming to be creators

-Are you actually trying to goad Caisson into rigging something for you for free

-Yes we need more creators, but no we don't need more people who take credit (and sometimes money) over the designs of others

Rant done, I'm out

Afrodite-Ohki

my Home Page has em under Fan art just like on DA ! The model is a Hight Polygon model ( A rebuild ) Not static fully articulated , but well I am used to that Jalousy always tries to beat creativity, it most ends up that there is nothing left as it is very destructive.

But I can go again and you start to present something to make Poser interesting again. but you need to present something ! not just Bla Bla as this will not attract new users at all. so rather then to block you shoud show something that People would say Wooooow in Poser !!! I want it ! I am trying to help here and you sure need any help that you can get.

And now you're implying I'm jealous of you. Lol you never change, even when you keep coming with new names. (And hint, you might wanna try looking into my store before daring me to make Poser interesting. Me. And Caisson. You sure chose greatly who to go at implying we can't do what you do.)

Have fun, Azath, I'm done with this.

Well I am out again My original Account got banned because of you and we see how it all is starting ! You just have a big Problem. I will take down my Gallery and you guys just do it better ! and I mean better not just with words but with quality stuff !

I really do not know why I am waisting my time in here !

@ Afrodite-Ohki

you are just a Frustrated litte bitch do you really think that with a few hair and morphs released every 3 month is productive ? 20 years a member 33 models in the store no standalone model a real Poser Power Creator ! and yes I do say Beat me as if you could you would of done it in the past 20 years of experience. Not just with a Hair style !

The issue with Poser is that some people that have a limited Knowledge try to be big with big words but it ends up that poser gets low quality stuff and less and less releases because exactly these piss off the ones who could offer something.

! Ok Mods you now can remove my account !

:(

@SummonerCreations ... You do realize that ripping off models from games and redistributing them is illegal, right?

Or are you not familiar with copyright laws?

Yeah that looks like total ripoffs. Not so creative. LOL

Winter is coming

Makes me wonder :)

I modeled those from scratch. I didn't directly rip them out of a game.

Do you want to see the gigabytes of WIP files that I have on my hard drive?

The characters aren't mine, BTW.

Couldn't find anything on me, jumped at Deecey, I see.

A cornered animal will attack anything that moves.

I see they banned Summoner and unbanned Azath. This is getting boring.

Do you have any actual points on your favor or is attacking others all you have? (signed, the little b**ch, apparently. By the way, when I made my Rendo account I was around 15, and not creating for the store. My entire store currently is for La Femme, which only came out like 3 years ago - you might wanna check how you do math there.)

Afrodite-Ohki posted at 5:14PM Sat, 15 May 2021 - #4419266

Couldn't find anything on me, jumped at Deecey, I see.

A cornered animal will attack anything that moves.

I see they banned Summoner and unbanned Azath. This is getting boring.

Do you have any actual points on your favor or is attacking others all you have? (signed, the little b**ch, apparently. By the way, when I made my Rendo account I was around 15, and not creating for the store. My entire store currently is for La Femme, which only came out like 3 years ago - you might wanna check how you do math there.)

they banned who ??? me ? well that is strange ! I removed the images my self . I am not willing to support a Poser forum with such idiots that make the actual situation worse then it already is . Like I said you want to have a future with poser then do something. not just picking on Creators due your own frustrations you already lost many this way !

@ Deecey

you should read better I already mentioned how the models were made .

@Afrodite-Ohki

I see you getting better in Blender :) did you model that little cutie ?

Btw I asked kindly to remove my account with all there is in here as I am not willing to support this forum any further ! you can do it better then do it better .

你們做得很好

@ caisson, Afrodite-Ohki, Deecey

你能解釋一下你的實際問題是什麼

This thread was Constructive until you guys came in here ! see what you done ! I do not understand your Personal reasons for what you do , it is really sad. You have not been aggressed by any means there were no personal Ataks against you before you came in here to flame around. Is it all you can? you did the same thing already back in 2019 so what is your motivation ? Also it is hard to understand that a company like Bondware is supporting such a bunch of rioters in the forums letting them flame at People with no personal reason at all !