(Note: I’m trying to do this for DS3-4+ and Poser6-10+)

I’ve got a manual procedure (with a couple of scripts to assist) for positioning a hand-held prop in a proxy-hand at the world origin. The procedure is basically this:

1. Unparent the prop
2. Zero its translations
3. Zero its rotations
4. Zero its origin*
5. Zero its offsets*
6. Manually translate the prop to the origin
7. Zero its origin
8. Zero its offsets
9. Manually rotate the prop to the correct orientation
10. Record the translations and rotations

*(Note: the zero origin/offsets at (4) and (5) is mainly as a visual reference. (7) and (8) are for ensuring that rotations are about the world centre)

The result of this procedure is a set of six parameters (X, Y, Z rotations and X, Y, Z translations) that can be used along with another script to do the whole procress (1) to (9) automatically in the future.

For many props the six values I get doing this in Poser are the same as I get doing it in DAZ Studio (after converting translations between DAZ units and Poser units of course).

However, for some props I get very different values from Poser and DAZ Studio. I’ve just realized that the problem occurs when if the prop’s local rotation axes aren’t aligned with the world axes, since in DAZ Studio step (9) sets world axis rotations, whereas in Poser step (9) sets local axis rotations. At least that’s how it looks to me - the attached screenshot should help visualize what I’m on about.

I’m trying to find a way of getting a set of three rotation values out of step (10) that will work in both Poser and DAZ Studio. Any thoughts and suggestions on the subject would be appreciated. I realize that the solution may be on either on the DAZ Studio side or on the Poser side, so I’m posting this on the a couple of forums.

I guess that the answer on the Poser side may lie in one or more of the following (from the Poser 6 PoserPython Methods Manual). But the 'explanations' really don't help me here. I guess I should just try printing all of these out in step (10) to see if any of them match the values I'm getting from DAZ Studio?

actor.AlignmentRotationXYZ() - Get a tuple comprising the ordered rotation alignment for this actor. (order is X, Y, Z)

actor.LocalQuaternion() - Get a tuple comprising the quaternion local rotation for this actor.

actor.Orientation() - Get the orientation of the actor’s coordinate system (x,y,z ordered rotation).

actor.WorldQuaternion() - Get a tuple comprising the quaternion world rotation for this actor.

(I never learnt about quaternions - I have the vague impression that they define rotations by specifying a vector/axis and a rotation about that axis ?)

Not sure what to make of the results I just got. In Poser 6 I just ran the script that does (1) to (9) automatically. First using the parameters I'd obtained from step (10) of the manual process in Poser 6, and second with the parameters I'd obtained from step (10) of the manual process in DAZ Studio

First: 'InHand' katana set up at origin in P6 using P6 HANDYPROXYDATA (yR=75.9741, xR=22.9775, zR=-10.0, xT=0.571, yT=0.089, zT=-0.38):

This is where the katana ended up - correctly positioned in the proxy-hand at the origin:

And here's all the Poser rotation/orientations for the prop:

The numbers on the parameter dials (xRotate, yRotate, zRotate) correspond to the values from the HANDPROXYDATA lines

AlignmentRotationXYZ() =(63.95, -8.864, 14.156)

Orientation() =(63.95, -8.864, 14.156)

LocalQuaternion()=(0.7802, 0.06667, 0.2319, 0.5770)

WorldQuaternion()=(0.7802, 0.0666, 0.2319, 0.5770)

Second: 'InHand' katana set up at origin in P6 using DAZ Studio HANDYPROXYDATA (yR=16.4, xR=22.12, zR=79.98, xT=0.546, yT=0.198, zT=-0.375):

Here's where the katana ended up - wrong!

And here's all the Poser rotation/orientations for the prop:

The numbers on the parameter dials (xRotate, yRotate, zRotate) correspond to the values from the HANDPROXYDATA lines

AlignmentRotationXYZ() =(63.95, -8.864, 14.156)

Orientation() =(63.95, -8.864, 14.156)

LocalQuaternion()=(0.7267, 0.09721, -0.4695, 0.4919)

WorldQuaternion()=(0.7267, 0.09721, -0.4695, 0.4919)

I noticed that all the green values are the same (exactly the same, to at least 12-13 decimal places).

I really do not understand all this...

Just noticed that the origin of the katana hasn't been zeroed (don't think that's really relevant - the orientation of the katana using the DAZ Studio parameters is completely wrong). Anyway, the screenshot of the correctly positioned katana using the P6 parameters was from a different camera angle and cropped out the green origin marker. So here's a new screenshot from a similar angle to the DS version, and showing the prop origin marker:

Hello,

I don't know DAZ axis system, so it is impossible for me to help you. About Quaternion, you can read my tutorial on this matter at:

 http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/?item_id=72870

I also wrote a tutorial on Poser Matrix method at:

 http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/?item_id=72801

Allstereo 

Thanks allstereo, understanding what these PoserPython functions are returning is the first vital step, so I'll download your items when I'm back on my own system - they should definitely help. I did check the quaternion article on Wikipedia, and it was all gobbledigook to me :oS ... I couldn't understand what it was taliking about !

What's puzzling me most about the multicoloured results I noted is what exactly do the tuples returned by actor.AlignmentRotationXYZ() and actor.Orientation() represent?

Another thing I just thought to try (posted here mainly so I don't forget to do it tomorrow) - save the scene as a PZ3 and examine the katana in the file. And import the scene into DAZ Studio.

But I'd expect that if I save the scene with the dwarv and the correctly positioned katana in the proxy-hand at his feet, then when I import the PZ3 into DAZ Studio I'd expect the katana to be correctly positioned too.  But if in DAZ 

Not really sure where this is going... 

Hello,

About the Python method actor.Orientation, it is the Original orientation of the prop. Look at the Orientation values in the Joint Editor Window. Perharps, it is your problem, Check in the Joint Editor if the prop "In Hand" has some values in the Orientation cases. Do the same for the prop "In Sheath". The computation of World Orientation should take care of the initial Orientation values (See my tutorial on Poser Matrix).

Allstereo 

Thanks for the tutorials - very much appreciated. I've quickly read through the quaternion one, and I'm already much happier. Need to read it again a few times.

The matrix tutorial will take a bit longer...

Regarding actor.Orientation() giving the prop's original orientation (as defined in the PP2 I assume?) - that would explain why it's the same in both cases, despite the prop being oriented differently. (The PoserPython Manual description "Get the orientation of the actor’s coordinate system (x,y,z ordered rotation)." is clearly wrong - the prop origin marker (three mutually perpendicular green lines) in my two cases is clearly different)

This is odd. I saved the correctly positioned (at the origin) katana as a prop from Poser 6.

When I load the PP2 in Poser (tried 6 and 9) it's fine.

But if I load it in DAZ Studio (tried 3 and 4.6) it's in the wrong place and wrongly oriented.

Never seen that before - a PP2 prop that loads differently in Poser and DAZ Studio...

And here are the relevant bits from the PP2 I created from P6:

prop JSKzeroP6:1
    {
    name    JSKzeroP6
    ...
    parent UNIVERSE
    ...
    channels
        {
        ...
        xOffsetA OriginX
            {
            name originX
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.004
            keys
                {
                static  1
                k  0  0
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            staticValue 0
            }
        yOffsetA OriginY
            {
            name originY
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.004
            keys
                {
                static  1
                k  0  0
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            staticValue 0
            }
        zOffsetA OriginZ
            {
            name originZ
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.004
            keys
                {
                static  1
                k  0  0
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            staticValue 0
            }
            ...
                    rotateY yRotate
            {
            name yrot
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 1
            keys
                {
                static  0
                k  0  75.9741
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            }
        rotateX xRotate
            {
            name xrot
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 1
            keys
                {
                static  0
                k  0  22.9775
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            }
        rotateZ zRotate
            {
            name zrot
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 1
            keys
                {
                static  0
                k  0  -10
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            }
        translateX xTran
            {
            name xtran
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.001
            keys
                {
                static  0
                k  0  0.571
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            trackingScaleMult 1
            }
        translateY yTran
            {
            name ytran
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.001
            keys
                {
                static  0
                k  0  0.089
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            trackingScaleMult 1.000000
            }
        translateZ zTran
            {
            name ztran
            initValue 0
            hidden 0
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.001
            keys
                {
                static  0
                k  0  -0.38
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            trackingScaleMult 1.000000
            }
        xOffsetB xOffB
            {
            name xOffB
            initValue 0
            hidden 1
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.004
            keys
                {
                static  1
                k  0  0
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            staticValue 0
            }
        yOffsetB yOffB
            {
            name yOffB
            initValue 0
            hidden 1
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.004
            keys
                {
                static  1
                k  0  0
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            staticValue 0
            }
        zOffsetB zOffB
            {
            name zOffB
            initValue 0
            hidden 1
            forceLimits 0
            min -100000
            max 100000
            trackingScale 0.004
            keys
                {
                static  1
                k  0  0
                }
            interpStyleLocked 0
            staticValue 0
            }
        }
    endPoint -0.359223 0.668103 0.207721
    origin 0 0 0
    orientation 63.9512 -8.86485 14.1564
    ...
    }

(P.S. see "Self-Amending Special Characters When Editing Posts !" for how I got the formatting in the last post...)

That PP2 basically has the following settings (all listed in X, Y, Z order here):

OffsetA = (0,0,0)

OffsetB = (0,0,0)

Origin = (0,0,0)

Orientation = (63.95,-8.86,14.14)

Rotations = (22.9, 75.9, -10)

Translations = (0.57, 0.089, -0.38)

Maybe I should try editing the PP2 and setting Orientation to (0,0,0) to see if that puts the prop in the same position in Poser and DAZ Studio ?

(I love trial and error!)

That was a good idea - now I think I’m getting somewhere !

Left - Poser 6, Right - DAZ Studio 3

(and yes indeed, if I save the correctly positioned 'InSheath' katana (which worked correctly in both Poser and DAZ Studio) as a prop Orientation is already set to (0,0,0) in the PP2)

So (hopefully) in conclusion I need to add an extra step to the procedure in my original post, something like

"3a) Zero its orientation"

Hello,

Good, you find the problem. Your solution is exactly what I described in my Poser Matrix tutorial at page 55, but in the context of DAZ - Poser compatibility.

Allstereo  

...Look at the Orientation values in the Joint Editor Window. Perharps, it is your problem, Check in the Joint Editor if the prop "In Hand" has some values in the Orientation cases. Do the same for the prop "In Sheath"...

You were spot-on with that ! So thanks very much again. Setting the orientation to zero in PoserPython is easy with actor.SetOrientation(0.0,0.0,0.0), but the DAZ Script function to set orientation requires a quaternion.

So I've posted over in the DAZ script forum about what value I should set that quaternion to - I realized that my initial idea of (0,0,0,0) couldn't be right, and it looks like (0,0,0,1) is the correct one...

Hello,

Just to make thing easier with Quaternion. The first number is the rotation angle and the next three is the axis orientation. To find the Quaternion value for Daz, you can use the script described in my Poser Quaternion tutorial (page 11) on the prop actor. Use the reported values with Daz. Just a trial and error approach.

Allstereo 

I hadn't thought of using your scripts to find the value!  Thanks again. :)