Have you tried bagginbills lightmeter? That will solve your light (intensity) problem. You do know that you can increase intensity to over 100% ?

I am not sure which seams you mean: If you mean the shadow artefacts of the room - I think you can solve them by increasing the IDL bounces, but others might know more about it.

If you have seams on the texture: Turn of texture filtering on the texture node or lower your shading rate

I read about the lightmeter, have NOT tried as yet...

What should I increase the intensity of, the light I added? It looks bright enough, but do you think that one of BB's default lights should be increased w/o adding another?

The seams that are showing are in the texture. I had the same problem in Daz Studio and the solution was to change the shading rate from the default of 1 to a setting of .2, just like in in Poser. But for some of my scenes/renders, the shading rate was already at .2, and the seam was still visible.

I already have the texture filtering off, but will do some tests and double check those settings...

Any thoughts on the gamma control and the inverse square light settings? How come they made my renders darker?

Forgot to ask... This is for BB or anyone using his room set up...

Can we move the boxes? Can we hide them?!?

I "know" we can move and hide them, but I'd like to know if doing so changes the render quality or how the lights behave.

Let us back up a bit.  I have never found any reason to increase light intensity to over 100%.  IMO, all you will succeed in doing is blowing out all your highlights and shadows.  If gamma correction is active in your render settings, there is no need to even use lighting at 100% under most circumstances.  Now, if you go back to your scene, there is no reason to use inverse square in any lighting representing the sun for daylight.  You either use infinite or point lighting, and the point light with constant attenuation.  The link below, demonstrates the use of one infinite light to provide daytime sun using render gamma correction and IDL. 

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2152637&user_id=343328&np&np

Specular lighting does not add any additional illumination, it enhances specular highlights in texture if that particular is channel is active.  You would need to check this the material room.  You mentioned BB's lights.  If this is lighting which came with is studio set up, you are fine.  However, if this is his original lights created for VSS, then they were incorrectly designed.  Those lights do run too hot and need their intensities decreased substantially.  Do use his Light meter.  It will indicate what is working and lacking in your scene.

Actually, I have used GC and a single light at up to 250%, but not with IDL. This was before IDL.

To move the boxes, you need to move the lights: the boxes are parented to the lights. And yes: that has got to be the most instructive pz3 ever put to get by anyone for lighting, bar none.

I'm still playing with it. Been two months now. Not posting anything in my gallery: they are all studies.

So can someone explain what I am doing wrong w/ regards to Gamma Correction, as when I used it, it considerably darkened my render.

Not only that, but it seems that after it was turned on, even when unchecked again, it stays in "ON" mode =/

Let me explain. I loaded a preset render setting and then turned on GC. When the render finished and I saw it was too dark, so I turned it off and switched back to another render setting preset. When that image rendered, it rendered as if GC was on, but it was not. I had switched to the earlier setting that I knew was ok, but for some reason Poser kept rendering Dark. I had to close the scene, and reload for the preset to render as it should have.

What is GC, what is it for and how do we set it for best image quality.

If it matters at all, my crt was on a special on the history channel this month, it's featured in the life and times of ancient civilizations using ancient technology =P

MatCreator, I suggest you do a search on this (Poser) forum  for 'GC' or 'gamma correction' and user 'Bagginsbill'. There are many threads where he deals with this and explains it in exhaustive detail.

GC has little or nothing to do with monitor settings. It has to do with how Poser processes colour information.

BTW, you may need to go back further than 45 days... when you do search.

Doing that "as we speak" =)

Thanks.

That said, I have truly exhausted my left and right brains ultimate capacity to comprehend and apply all I have learned, and I think my brain may have considered the possibility to absorb only 1 tenth of what I have seen. I love learning, but this has went way too deep to follow through simple forum posts. I have seen calculus, charts, greyscale color graphs, scripts I don't have, scripts I do have and don't know how to use (or even knew they existed or why), acronyms with no explanation, features mentioned that I don't even know if it's Poser or not.....

As an artist, my brain is wrapped around making sure the tubing sticking out of some guys ass that has multiple minions with pipes for necks and tongues for eyes flowing through this proverbial pipe all while having conversation w/ the old man that has melted into the fused wooden and concrete wall. Never mind the guy juggling vents of spewing acid or the step ladder tongue stretching thru the guts of egos infinite wisdom =/

I have found conflict with a few things that have been advised, either that, or I am an even worse shape than I think. The Inverse Square, Gamma Correction, how many lights to use, too bright part has evaded me, and it is with much "dental pain", I am able to show you the render that I favor the most WITH the light meter =D

I feel like applause should be in the background, not as easy -finding- for some reason... That's me and frustration setting in...

But now that it is there, what do I do to fix my image?!?

This image uses 3 lights, the same as posted in previous screencaps. 1 infinite, and 2 spotlights. Infinite at 86% and spots at 68%. I cant help but feel like anything I do darkens the image by too much, as it is an outside scene, there "should" be light from everywhere. A broad daylight, out in the open scene, relative/very slight hue from the sky... I have heard of MANY using just 1 light at 25%?!?!? I don't see how that could be possible...

I still don't "follow" how best to interpret this to determine what I should do...

I'm going to play more w/ BB's room AND sphere now... But I can't read anymore... There's stuff oozing out of my ear =/

This scene is not using the VSS or gamma correction or inverse square lighting option...

To point out, the Light Meter is a work of pure genius!!! I am amazed that such a tool exists...

Matcreator,

May I suggest that you deep six the hi res props and just put some primitives in their place, like a ground plane and a few spheres.. This way you can do wickedly fast tests of all your settings. There is just no need to wait ten hours for a draft render.

Congrads on your progress. Since Poser 8, it is not a prog to laugh at, anymore.

LOL, these are rendering in about 4 minutes =P

And I suppose you're right, it is NOT a program to laff at =/

The "Pro" bit just hit me...

Getting back to gamma correction... I found (the way Columbus found America) the script for changing gamma correction on the textures. I don't know what to put. I tried 1 and -1 as it directed, I then check the box in render settings, but both still rendered rather dark results. What am I doing wrong w/ Gamma Correction?

Gc is supposed to brighten the scene, making it unnecessary to use high intensity lighting.  The correct setting for Transmaps, bumps, displacements normal maps is 1. 

Are you sure you are running Gc in your render settings?  And what is it's setting.  If you can provide screencaps of render settings and material room nodes, that will help.

What shuld I show from the Material Room?!?

Let's look at your skin textures for one in the material room.  Maybe we should look at your light settings also. 

A couple of remarks regarding the gamma correction thing:

You should have:

The skydome must fill the entire sky - not only the camera view like DAZ's Environment prop. The texture is attached to either the alt-diffuse OR the ambient node.

gamma correction at 2.2 in the render settings.

Infinite light is NOT Diffuse IBL but a real infinite light

All color maps are set to Use current Rendersettings for gamma control (If you click on the node to load a new texture you can see what gamma setting it is set at)

All greyscale transmaps, bumpmaps, specular maps, displacement maps are set to Gamma control 1.0

I do not know which script you used, but check if this has done the above

The light color also plays a role in how the scene looks - I usually set it at pure white

The color of the skydome and ground also plays a role in the color of the scene because IDL uses those colors

Under normal circumstances IDL on with Gamma Control at 2.2 and an infinite white light with no other lights should light the entire scene including areas in the shadows

I do not know what you use the spotlights for and what overal effect you want to have, so I cannot tell you how to set those.

Remember that the (skin) textures play a large role as well - VSS helps you with that

I am very busy with work today and can't post extensively.

Here is the short answer - stop using bullshit skin shaders. Those suck. They get darker when you enable GC, because they are designed illogically with compensations in them that have no reason to exist, and behave very differently when you switch to linear rendering. (Which is what you get with GC enabled)

If you would practice with simple props and simple materials, you'd learn how to light.

Right now it's like you're trying to learn to play a piano, except that you're listening through a device that reverses the low and high notes and plays every note backwards.

The shader you're using is one that has "compensations" built into it - the sort of thing that Poser users have been doing for years. These compensations are to make dark things bright and bright things darker - bringing things more into balance. They were also designed specifically to look sort-of OK when EXTRA lighting is used.

In other words, you're in a cock-eyed world where there are no straight lines and turning left points you more to the right. In case you didn't realize it, this cock-eyed world is what people have for years been doing and it is wrong and it is why people mistakenly think that lighting is hard.

Now I could tell you to use VSS, but then we get more complicated. You want to learn lighting? Then messing with skin shaders at the same time is a distraction. Stop it.

Learn to light some simple props with simple shaders. Note that I don't mean stupid shaders. For example, a shader that has no specularity is stupid. Nothing in the real world behaves that way. But there are tons of props that are configured that way. I bet those rocks you're using are configured that way.

You're not going to learn lighting at all if you fail to recognize the most important thing about renderers. The colors you see are decided completely by the SHADERS.

If you use bullshit shaders, you get bullshit, and it does not matter WHAT you do with the lights in that case - you will fail.

I'm sure others can help with more specifics on the shaders , but I'm suggesting Diffuse (using color texture) + Blinn (white) and you enable GC.

Then experiment with the lights.

The Gc Script will change the aforementioned maps for either all materials, figures or props in an entire scene. 

If your skydome has an active ambient channel, even with no lights in the scene, IDL will still give you a lit scene. 

I see that you are using the original V4 skin textures.  To be honest, that is the worst node arrangement not suited for P8 nor PP2010.  I have always used BB's VSS skin template to enhance all my skin textures.  It responds better to Gc and all lighting conditions.  It has been recommended, strip out all the nodes and connect the skin texture directly to the PoserSurface node.  You will get a better render.

Ok, I am going to set up another render, won't take long... But in what you see so far:

I am using my own skydome, and it is a full 360 sphere.

You can see the gc IS at 2.2... But what about "eveything else", is that ok?

The infinite light is an infinite light.

If by when you say all color maps are set to use color settings, you mean the blue dot on the top that says: "Use Gamma value from Render Settings", then YES, the blue dots are ticked.

If by when you say all greyscale transmaps, bumpmaps, specular maps, displacement maps are set to Gamma control 1.0, you mean that they are set to 1 where it says: "Custom Gamma value", then YES, they are set to 1.

This is how the materials are set BEFORE running any script =/ So should I leave alone in that case?!? The render shown is done w/o the script.

My lights were set to pure white, but by decreasing the intensity, it changes them to varied levels of gray...

As far as the color of the ground/skydome, those colors are coming from the textures. The skydome has a diffuse of 0, as suggested, and the texture was used in the ambiant channel.

The spotlights were because the single light was not enough, in my early attempts. I will adjust and see what I come up with.

We crossposted and I did not see the settings in your last messages - so we have ruled out those potential problems.

I agree with the others - the skin texture nodes are not suited for GC and IDL. You can see it even in the preview in the material room. As they say - attach the skin textures directly to diffuse and the other channels for which you have separate textures (such as bump)

Disable the spotlights again because it looked from the light meter that you had enough light with the infinite and the CG render should be brighter as non-CG with the same light

Didn't see this as messing around w/ skin shaders, I don't have time for that. Was trying to learn the practical application of lighting w/ regrds to IDL =/

As many of you understand being Poser users, I would rather just plug in a figure and a texture and work from there. The very mention of editing materials is totally another topic... One thing at a time.

If something is wrong w/ the texture settings for the character, I'd rather NOT have it distract the lesson of practical application of the IDL set up. I'm just using a texture preset for the time being.

I started this discussion already in the middle of a scene. I think it's best to see and learn from real situations than playing w/ non-real dummied down set ups. My goal is to make a medium between the technical and the creative, you guys have practiced on stills already, I didn't think it necessary to re-render cubes against walls. It is my intent to light this very scene using the aqcuired knowledge from this thread, this is the best scene to "practice" on, is this not hands on experience?!?

I thank you all for our responses, it is greatly appreciated...

I am going to "do" the 1 light set up, and apply a different skin to see what happens and work from there.

I have to laugh at the bullshit skin shaders bit, but in seeing the difference in renders I can understand your dislike for them. Personally, and being a content creator myself, I wouldn't blame the creators, that just doesn't seem fair.

NONE of what I have researched or have discovered or what is discussed in this thread is what I would consider common Poser/art knowledge. I could go even further BB and say you have an unfair advantage in this game...

And is this when/why VSS comes into play?!?

VSS does make a world of difference.  The current version comes with a skin shader template already built-in.  However, it's flexibility comes into play when you create new shaders, use a different set of shaders, or want to apply the same shaders to multiple models at the touch of a button.  For example, if I wanted to apply the same shader node arrangement for both your V4 and alien models in the scene, I would introduce the VSSProp, make whatever necessary changes to the shader templates, and click a button.  Instantly, each model would have it's old shaders replaced with the VSS template shaders, saving you plenty of time to compose and render your scene.

Yes, VSS will correct the skin textures so they will work with IDL and GC.

But.... there is a little catch. VSS was made before GC was available and BagginsBill has made the script does its own GC for the texture. So when you use GC in the rendersettings you have to change the Gamma value in the nodes from 2.2 to 1.0 to disable it. You than run the script and the texture nodes for the skin will be set correctly.

It is unfortunate that most content makers do not adapt their texture setups for P8 and PP2010. I am so used to it now, that I do it automatically - run vss on it, run a script to correct the GC on greymaps and everything works. About 30 secs of work, most of which is spent on browsing the library to get to the VSS prop.

Which creature set is it?

This is the scene w/ GC on... I think I posted this earlier.... Just 1 light, and it looks pretty good actually.

Is this when we use the script>Material Mods>Change Gamma?!?

... what do I put, and what do I tell it to select =/ I went through that before and didn't grasp it.

As a content creator, I can honestly say it is NOT that we do not adapt, I think we weren't told we even had too. HUGE difference... I believe, that if BB's scene, light set up and VSS shaders were part of the Poser Content when installed, and if it was documented, that that would have solved A LOT of peoples problems and frustration. I also believe that render settings should have been included to cover the range of image light styles at varied quality settings (this was mentioned in another thread as well) to act as a guide for us to follow. I think most people will leave settings at their default until told to do so or if some need arises...

For a dummy like me, I want for Christmas a simple, step by step guide on getting various light set ups, set up =P Screencaps and all... I don't want to come off as an ass, but I don't open Poser thinking to do calculus. I don't even know how to pronounce 1/2 the node names we use...

For example, this is how I explain how to do polypainting in ZBrush:

--- For "Regular" Mapped Objects ---

Import mesh

Disable your UVs

Start painting: make sure RGB is on, and zAdd is off

Import and reload your figure

Create a new texture by going to the texture menu: enter desired dimensions

click on "new"

click 'Col>Tex' in your texture tool palette

Go back to the texture menu, and 'flip V'

Export your texture map

Turn off the texture

If you want to continue painting, disable your UVs again and start the process over.

In between there I throw a screencap, with red arrows pointing. I highlight the buttons when explaining "click". I NEED to see menus, just telling thevalues doesn't stick...

I hope this doesn't come off as though I'm knocking teaching styles, I am explaining how I best take in info. This is a "me" thing. The paraphrased w/ screencaps methods is what works for me. Unless I am told or explained how to do something in these programs, I stick w/ the "default". All the info is scattered throughout the forums here, doesn't do BB's scene or VSS any justice. I'm curious just how many or what percentage of the Poser owners know about this, or even better, how to best take advantage of it =/

Trust me, trhis has been an awesome learning experience for me, and I think I'll get the hang of it real soon. But, as a content creator, I admittedly just released a set of shaders at Daz that use "old skool" methods =/ Sadly, I did not get an email that everything was changing =P

Welcome to the current world of Poser. 

Regarding 3rd party content: If the shaders have not been tested in PP2010 I rather have simple setups because then it is easier to change it. I do want seperate texture, bump, display and reflection maps - because the habit of attaching a texture map to a bumpchannel is pretty useless with CG enabled. 

wimvdb,

Back wall and windows are tight.. I love that stone floor texture and still use it**.** I displace it. **
**

Ok, now this render I believe has all the bells and whistles attached, but is NOT what I am going for. It uses 1 light, BB's SkyDome w/ my texture attached as directed, it uses the VSS, GC and IDL.

Looking at your last post wimvdb, I don't see what I did wrong that turned the skin color on my render bronze. My 1st few, before the GC, the skin looked more natural in color.

I totally agree wimvdb, which is what I meant in my anaology to make all artists render an image, they would all be different, as each image wouldbe trying to achieve a different look.

VSS has a bulit-in gamma setting which, by default, is set to 2.2.  If you are using Gc in your render settings, the gamma in VSS must be changed to 1.  Otherwise, you will get double the effect on the skin texture.

So if I use VSS, I don't need to use GC? Or, is it just standard practice to use GC and fix the VSS gamma?

And forgot to mention before... The 1st skin texture I was using was RebelMommy Mylin. The 2nd skin is Rachel by Thorne. The aliens are using RawArts GigaAlien, ALL available at Daz. In the set up thats pure BB's, I used Reby Sky, also at Daz. Please, please please, I do NOT believe that how their materials are set are any negative reflection of the products mentioned.

It doesn't matter which skin we start with, the VSS fixes it right?

Quote - New mat on the character, 1 light AND GC on, (no change in render settings) worked much better this time...

I have to laugh at the bullshit skin shaders bit, but in seeing the difference in renders I can understand your dislike for them. Personally, and being a content creator myself, I wouldn't blame the creators, that just doesn't seem fair.

NONE of what I have researched or have discovered or what is discussed in this thread is what I would consider common Poser/art knowledge. I could go even further BB and say you have an unfair advantage in this game...

You are right: it isn't fair to blame the creators for using a kludge that worked for years to compensate for Poser's shortcomings. However, things in Poser have improved, but content creators don't really want to go from gibberish workflow which has worked for years to linear workflow which GC actually requires. So no, I'm not saying they are wrong for using it, but at the same time, as a discriminating Poser artist, you'll want to familiarise yourself with the difference and endeavour to understand how to make your materials more consistent with the application features you are currently using.

VSS will "fix" any skin texture within reason.  Some textures are just bad, i.e., baked in specular highlights. 

The standard practice with VSS, retain render Gc and adjust VSS gamma.  Keep in mind, VSS skin template gamma will only affect the material.  Render gamma is applied to every thing in the scene.  Otherwise, you would need to incorporate Gc into all your material of every single prop and character in the scene.  Better to use Gc in your render settings and simply adjust VSS to suit.

Quote - And the render settings so we are on the same page...

I would be turning down render quality from 40 to 7-9 (you gain nothing but increase render time), and increasing pixel samples... 10 or above.

Just to add to Robyn's comment, there are some vendors that do provide two sets of materials.  One set made exclusively for earlier Poser versions, and another set constructed specifically for the newer versions.  Until users make a huge upgrade to current versions, vendors will need to make choices between which Poser to support.

Quote - VSS will "fix" any skin texture within reason.  Some textures are just bad, i.e., baked in specular highlights. 

The standard practice with VSS, retain render Gc and adjust VSS gamma.  Keep in mind, VSS skin template gamma will only affect the material.  Render gamma is applied to every thing in the scene.  Otherwise, you would need to incorporate Gc into all your material of every single prop and character in the scene.  Better to use Gc in your render settings and simply adjust VSS to suit.

...and, if I may be so bold to add: set all non-colour maps gamma settings to 1 via the Menu -> MaterialMods -> changeGamma script. But I agree with HBorre that you are better off using GC (and IDL) in your renders... remember, all materials in your scene will need looking at. This is why I would set some of your scene bits to invisible, change the material settings for each bit, render, get that sorted, and add bits as you go.

Also, 3 lights? If you are using IDL, 1 or max two lights are really all you need.

I think I am "almost" there. There seems to be 1 crucial element I am forgeting, not doing, not checking off or just not understanding, and I have become a little distracted, and a little confused. I think I may have even confused you guys a bit, so I want to start from scratch, and go slow, piece by piece...

I totally fixed the scene. Deleted the existed lights, added just 1 ininite, changed the angle, did the light meter test until the meter showed "ok" light, loaded BB's envirosphere, loaded my texture into that, applied a "good" skin texture to the main character, edited the render settings WITHOUT GC 1st (we will add that in later) and this is where I/we start...

These next few screencaps will show the "default" scene, and then I will explain what I added and changed...

What I like in this render is how the colors of the textures are "rich" and match my overall expectations. I do change/fix/edit my mats on the fly, but for our sakes and purposes, and keeping in topic, this is how the load... I do NOT like how the aliens are way too dark. I would fix this, but thats another step. Generally, I make my scenes first, and I can get pretty complex w/ my scenes. Then I'll add the materials. THEN I decide on lighting... After that, I may play w/ some side props and special effects, but thats my flow...

You can see a huge difference in the render...

I like how you can "see" the details of the aliens starting to show...

I think this is the crucial step I am missing... How would I do this?!?

This is the render w/ GC and VSS applied... I also changed the diffuse of my prop to .8, but you can see the color of the figure off... By "off", I mean rendered image should match or be close to what the texture/image looks like in photoshop.