That's Antonia_1.2, there, wearing this morph with no modifications, as well as a couple of those low-res projected textures to modify the face shader.

Is that good?  I dunno.  I'm still working on it.  I've been working on auto-scaling, as well as symmetry adjustments.  The Poser tests showed me that some of my scaling assumptions were wrong.  I've been reducing the face sizes, when I need to enlarge them slightly.  Anyway, working on the tools.

Since I only post when I have something to say, these are a few comparisons I screen-capped.

Impressive work!

Thanks.  I think it's getting to be withing measurable distance of its end.  I'm wrapping up the morph brush and 3D paint feature sets and beginning to think about how to approach distribution.

If anyone knows anything about using pip with Poser's Python installation, will they please stand up and wave their arms or something.  I searched for it here on the forums and found a few hints, but not much.  Mainly, that search surprised me with a 2007 thread about the initial release of the Quasimodo Freakshow Face Thing to which I referred at the top of the thread.  What a flame-fest!  Apparently there is a history of trouble, relating to programs like these, and now that I've learned about the controversy I do have some qualms about this project.  My internet skills are badly degraded in recent years, along with my google-fu, and I would not be able to handle any kind of flamewar anything.

Here are more screengrabs that don't really show much that's useful, since I seem to have a knack for those.

It still looks very promising.  Thanks for sharing, I continue to be very interested. =)

Teh Mollz

a lot of the old troublemakers have disappeared or retired or moved on so maybe it'll be better now.  most of the arguments here these days are about AI anyway.

i'd say ask about pip in the python forum but that's been pretty quiet lately.  might be worth a shot though.

I guess I neglected to mention that the reason for bothering to add 3D paint tools is that I worked out how to enlarge the projected textures.  They are no longer locked into a default 256x256 size and can now be as large as you like.  I've only set it up to handle up to 1024, reasoning that a 600 square source image can only be usefully enlarged so much, but a user can add blank templates as png to enable larger sizes.

I don't know if that manages to make any of the resulting textures useful to anyone, but with that possibility in mind, I've added symmetry tools for the projected texture and those paint tools.  Here's a quick glimpse of sym-tests for 1024 textures.

I have a working Windows exe build, finally.  It uses Python 3.6 and will run on my Windows 7 device.  I assume that indicates desirable backwards-compatibility, more than it suggests some likely failure on more recent versions of WIndows.  The whole thing is 136 MB zipped, currently with no manual or guide.  I have a manual started but... it got away from me a bit.  I got through all of the "the Blargis-twaddler twaddles the Blargis" stuff, and once I got to the point of needing to outline procedures clearly and concisely, the whole thing degenerated into worse gibberish than this sentence.  I am no Anthony Hernandez, if he was the one who worked on the Curious Labs Poser manual way back when.  Was he?  Anyone?

Anyway, this is not too huge-big, but neither is it small.  I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to distribute anything, nowadays.  It also has not been tested for bugs by anyone but me, and I figure we all know how bad the programmers can be at finding all of their own bugs.

Thoughts, suggestions, anything?

Usually you will find bugs immediately after you release software. ;)

Is your objective to sell it? In that case, you need to find some testers to try it out, and maybe someone to edit/rewrite your instructions. It's possible to sell software on this site of course.

If your objective is to give it away, you could put it up using whatever web space or file sharing site, post the link, and just tell people it is a very early alpha release. They will undoubtedly find bugs.

Not sure how much free time I have, but I have done technical writing and editing etc.

Do they still make affordable web spaces and file sharing sites?  I thought those had vanished, as part of the cultural impact of the 2020-ish period.

This is going to be free and open source, and the source code will be up on Github, eventually.  One of the key parts of the process using Dlib comes with a restriction against its use in commercial projects.  So apparently I wouldn't be able to take money from folks, even if I were inclined to do so.  See, the whole manual is like this, babble-headed argle-bargle.

But it does sound like the process is not significantly different than in the past.  Just that the available resources have changed.  I'll have to hunt around.

Thank you, ChromeStar.

Mac version? Quite a few of us Poser users, including yours truly, are Mac users ... 

I can try to compile a Mac version, but I have no way to test one, and I have no way of knowing how to debug effectively for Mac.  Panda3D works on Mac, the process I've used with Panda can produce a Mac build.  At the very least, one should be able to load Panda3D, Dlib, Numpy, and Pillow (PIL) onto that Mac, and run it as a Panda script.  Assuming DLib works on Mac.

Basically, I have no idea.  The Windows build took a fair amount of debugging, to find little things that WIndows didn't like, with several hours of going back and forth between debugging and compiling on a laptop, then testing on a Windows 7 device across the room.  But there's no Mac there, on the other-other side of that room!  Just... I dunno.  I assume I would need a very, very patient, dedicated, and knowledgeable Mac-user as a beta-tester and collaborator.

Cage posted at 9:08 AM Tue, 5 May 2026 - #4506068

I can try to compile a Mac version, but I have no way to test one, and I have no way of knowing how to debug effectively for Mac.  Panda3D works on Mac, the process I've used with Panda can produce a Mac build.

Basically, I have no idea.  The Windows build took a fair amount of debugging, to find little things that WIndows didn't like, with several hours of going back and forth between debugging and compiling on a laptop, then testing on a Windows 7 device across the room.  But there's no Mac there, on the other, other side of that room!  Just... I dunno.  I assume I would need a very, very patient, dedicated, and knowledgeable Mac-user as a beta-tester and collaborator.

What is Panda3D? I've never heard of it.

Panda3D is a free, open source 3D game-programming system that can be programmed using C++ or Python.  https://www.panda3d.org/  I have programmed this whole thing using Python 3.6, so there's no way to make it work with 2.7.  Just to be clear, this is not a Poser plugin or PoserPython script.  This is a standalone project that has been built for use with Poser.  It helps create morphs for grouped heads from obj geometries.  That's useful for Poser, and I don't even know it's compatible with how Daz does things nowadays, so I figure it's just good for Poser.

The easiest route to using the thing on Mac would be to install a version of Python >= 3.6, then install Panda3D into that Python installation.  The script can run as plain, un-compiled Python, and it can run without Dlib, although that does make parts of the process less user-friendly.  I've been running as plain Python on Linux.

If you're adventurous, you can try to install Cmake on your Mac and see if you can build Dlib.  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54719496/how-to-install-dlib-for-python-on-mac  I haven't seen reports of anyone managing it, but it is hypothetically possible.

My experience with Apple products began in 1983 and ended in 1985, aside from running a Mac emulator on Raspberry Pi once or twice, in 2017.  Everything in that realm is a mystery to me.  I could help guide someone through the basics of Python and Panda3D on a Mac, insofar as it wouldn't be too different from what I've been doing, but anything OS-specific is an unknown.

Apparently another possibility is WineBottler.  https://winebottler.kronenberg.org/  When I used Wine on Linux, it would run some things, like PPro14, but would not run other programs.  A couple of my Poser side-utilities just wouldn't run, and I could only get 3DCoat to work by locating a Linux version of the program.  

Do they still make affordable web spaces and file sharing sites?  I thought those had vanished, as part of the cultural impact of the 2020-ish period.

This is going to be free and open source, and the source code will be up on Github, eventually.  One of the key parts of the process using Dlib comes with a restriction against its use in commercial projects.  So apparently I wouldn't be able to take money from folks, even if I were inclined to do so.  See, the whole manual is like this, babble-headed argle-bargle.

I dunno.  I'll have to check Github policy.  I thought it was more for source code, not for compiled programs.  I might be wrong about that!

Github does offer compiled open-source programs. I have downloaded several useful apps from them.

Well, that makes things much more approachable.  That is good to know.  Thank you.

I've been distracted from the distribution aspect by another wave of debugging and the addition of some new tools.  I moved the 'fix fisheye' tool to a new section Postwork with a few similarly-conceived functions.

And while I've still been too chicken to fully set up anything at Github, I do have some compiled testing files for Mac, in my Rosity file locker.  If you are running Mac OSX 10_13... whatever '10_13' means, here... you are welcome to try these files.  There is no guarantee that they will work.  I've used the same Panda3D featureset that successfully compiled the Windows version I mentioned earlier, but that's no guarantee that it will work, apparently.  Still, theyt might, and you can try them, if you're so inclined.  If you wanted to go further and tell me about what happens when you try them, that's helpful for debugging and development.

https://www.renderosity.com/filelocker/57475/download?key=4050

These are required support files.

https://www.renderosity.com/filelocker/57473/download?key=9497

Note that the files needed to compile Dlib for Mac are not available -- Mac users who want Dlib need to compile it on their own target devices -- but I've set this up to work without Dlib.  Some basic instructions:

Once you've unzipped everything, the three folders provided should be placed together with the app, in the same directory.  You should place the whole thing in some location on your computer where you have write access, because this script will try to write temp files to one of those three folders.

If the app runs for you, perhaps the best thing is to go into the "Face Recognition" tab and the "File" menu, then "load files according to tab", near the bottom.  Then browse for a "pic" ini and a "head " ini and load them,  Once you have those in place, you can futz about with the tools and examine how things work.  Your head should probably be the Antonia Head ini, as the Posette, V1, and Pauline example head files will require you to browse for an obj.  Keep it simple, at the start.

Without Dlib, the complications will come with the process of setting up a new head obj or pic-set.  Not too-too 'complicated', but with fewer time-saving conveniences.  I guess that comes later, if you're still interested, and assuming the whole thing is working for you.

Finally, I've also placed in my Filelocker a zip with a Wings3D file that will allow you to examine some results exported directly from the script.  The four Antonia-1.2 heads shown here are in the file, so any of you who have been curious about the quality of its morphs can take a look.

https://www.renderosity.com/filelocker/57480/download?key=1451

Bandwidth is limited, but I figure the five of us who are still hanging around here at the forums can't possibly use it all.  Right?

Anyway, I'm going to finish up this debugging pass and get back to working out how to do this with Github.

Ooh, we can do gif files.

I am one of those who pronounce it "Gee-Eye-Eff".

I have a compiled exe and support files available, if anyone is interested in testing the program.  Private message me if that interests you.  I gather that no Mac users had any interest, before, but if anyone on Mac wants to test, I can compile for Mac, but without Dlib support and so far with no verification from actual Mac users that the compiled version runs properly.

Edited to note that the testing files include pre-made comparison files for LaFemme1 and LHomme1, as well as Posette, Vicky1, Pauline, and the default Antonia-1.2.

It's taken me three morphs of my own stupid face to begin accepting that I might actually look sort of like that.  I'm not here to advertise my unfortunate features, but to show that I'm testing a bit with L'Homme and LaFemme.  Someone mentioned Dawn and Dusk to me, but I don't know where to find those so I can set up files for them.

A compiled exe version is available for testing, now with basic instructions and reference in pdf form, with a hyperlinked table of contents and illustrations & stuff.  Message me if interested.  I'm a freak and a weirdo, my nose maybe looks like you can see right there, but I don't bite.  Usually, I don't bite.  I have not yet bitten anyone.  In private message.  Okay.

I guess I should have said in the previous post that L'Homme was made l'homely by wearing my own personal features.  Ah, well.  Here's another test of L'Homme.

Working with Antonia for so long has really spoiled me.  How do you guys deal with the lack or definition around the nostrils, or the ears?  If these are Poser's current flagship figures, well.  I'm disappointed to learn about it.  I guess I'm testing version 1, and maybe there's a better version 2?  Those nostrils act like they know what they are, "Look at me!  I'm some nostrils!"  But then they fizzle out before they reach the end.

Cage posted at 5:16 PM Tue, 23 June 2026 - #4507586

Someone mentioned Dawn and Dusk to me, but I don't know where to find those so I can set up files for them.

There's a Dawn 2 as well, but you have to pay for her.

You look familiar somehow. And no, I'm not referring to the Gollum tests. :D

Well, Edmond Curse, seen in my avatar, started as a pretty standard fan fiction Mary Sue type character, and was made to look as much like me as I could manage at the time.  I keep coming to grips with the truth of my own appearance, then slowly becoming confused again until I think I look more like the somewhat more attractive people around me.  Then I have a shock as I again confront the truth,  "Do I really look like that" is a way of life, when you're down there among the threes, on that rotten ten-point scale.

But it seems unlikely that we've met.  We're from two different worlds!

I guess I need to start actually searching the Rosity marketplace for these figures, then.  I'll do that.  I would like the script to include prepared setup files for the heads of the more more popular figures in what remains of Poserdom.  The trouble being that I've used only Antonia for 15 years, so I don't own the popular figures in Poserdom.  But I'll get it together.

I guess I need to start actually searching the Rosity marketplace for these figures, then.  I'll do that.  I would like the script to include prepared setup files for the heads of the more more popular figures in what remains of Poserdom.

Don't search the marketplace, because you'll have to pay; that's why I didn't post links to Dawn and Dusk. For reasons, the Poser 11 content downloads no longer seem to be available, but looking through our earlier correspondence I see you also own Poser 13. In which case, go here and enter your serial number to access them.

Folks like me who use Poser to make comic strips with pretensions of being graphic novels are always on the lookout for real-life, average looking characters (no offence intended! I'm a real-life, average looking character myself). There's a limit to the number of supermodels / superheroes you can use to populate a real-life, average looking comic. :)

I guess it's a problem, with a tool like this.  The most easily available source image faces belong to lovely people.  The TV characters composite up there was intended to show some variety, but it's just more nice-looking faces, isn't it?  And I don't have a lot of more average faces for use in testing, aside from my own.

That is helpful information, EB. Thank you.  I will gather the Poser 13 figures and prep them.  I still haven't loaded either of the Bondware versions of Poser that I've bought, largely due to their phone home thing.  I've ranted and babbled about that already elsewhere.

Long ago, I mused here at Rosity that Daz was freaking me out, since my mother is named Vicki and her brother was named Michael.  That's how long ago it was, back in the before times.  Someone responded to that post by suggesting that I must be called Stephanie.  So I was maybe a bit relieved when Daz went all Genesis, because the only Genesis I knew stole the dessert from my lunchbox in third grade, and she later punched me in the stomach in fourth grade, but we weren't related at all!

Anyway, this is that Michael, morphed and texture-projected onto L'Homme.  It's worked pretty well.  The second and third images are here because it occurred to me that I haven't shown all of you (yes, you, my purely notional audience) the final set of marker dots that are being used to capture a resemblance.  As well, perhaps you remember me babbling about how I would have to find a way to compensate for Pauline's brow.  L'Homme, here, has a similar mesh in many ways -- I've been assuming the current L'line of L'Poser L'figures was derived from Paul and Pauline -- and one of those similarities is that brow.  L'Homme has a brow that will force itself into your morphs, if you don't take steps to remove it, and also a lump on his nose.

The trick to removing these is to move the marker dots of the head inward or outward relative to the head's surface.  Since the final morph is created from the deltas between the positions of the markers on the head side and those on the pic side, moving a pic marker along a vector is equivalent to moving the corresponding head marker along a vector pointing in the opposite direction.  Which means we can de-emphasize L'Homme's brow and nose lump by moving the markers in those areas inward.  The opposite is true, as well.  Those five markers running up and down each cheek down directly correlate to any facial anatomical landmarks, but they're there because we still need the ability to sculpt those areas.  By moving those inward on the head, beneath its surface, it is easier to define the cheeks of the pic-face without exaggeration that moves too far from the reference points in the source picture.

Okay, nobody panic!  The images came in with a jumbled order, so the second and third images are the first and third images!  Okay?  Stop panicking!

Something that I'm really noticing with L'Homme is a problem with the InnerEye material.  For some weird reason, the InnerEye -- the eyesocket, inside the head -- is inset into the geomtry as though modeled using the Wings3D 'Intrude' function.  There's an internal layer of polygons that pointlessly lies right underneath the SkinHead (an unfortunate name) material's outer surface.  It is far too close, really weird design choice.  Which means it keeps poking through the outer skin surface.  And I can't just push it back in using a normals-driven function, because the InnerEye extends into the visible edges of the eyelids, so trying to hide the eyesocket that way distorts the shape of the eyes.  Who the flip built this thing???  Because that person was drinking the weird sauce at the time.  I can only hope this sort of thing was fixed with version 2 of the figure, because that is just klunky.  I am not the only one who has noted this!  It was brought to my attention by a tester.

I may be ranting now.  Do you folks have some way of dealing with this problem?  If there's a known trick to compensate for this sort of thing, maybe I can integrate that fix into the script's process, to help remove a problem from a morph before it can happen.

This looks incredibly useful. Will it also work with Dusk? Dawn? M4? V?

I would love to try the Windows 7 version.

It should work with any figure for which a head comparison file is created.  So far I've created files for Antonia-1.2, Posette, Vicky1, Pauline, LaFeme1, and L'Homme1.  I'm slowly adding more to that list, but I keep coming up with ways to try to refine and improve the process during all the testing I have to do as I set up those new heads.  Anyone can set up a head.  The process is fairly open and extensible, but... it may be a bit complicated in places.  Part of that attempted refining is trying to simplify the thing and make it more accessible.

The Windows 7 version should just be a general compiled exe Windows version.

Testers are quite welcome!  I can get the current script into a useful state and send you some download links by the end of today.

It does a nice job :D  I used my own textures, but with practice I can generate a morph in under 10 miutes.  I used standard morphs for the eye tilt and touc up, but 

I work with windows 10 and had no problems with the program (once I figured out what I was doing)

My Vlad character

Bill

Nice!  It's encouraging to know that the compiled version is working on Windows.  Each head only needs to be set up once, and can then be saved and used with any number of picture sets.  Once you get the hang of where all the dots go -- and there are admittedly many, many dots -- you can produce pic-set morphs pretty quickly.  That gif up there (GEE-EYE-EFF) took a few hours, one afternoon, to make many, many morphs.  And the pic-sets can be saved and reopened later, just like the heads, so a morph can be refined gradually.  Everyone has seen too much of the same morphs from me, over and over as I try to display improvements that probably only I notice.  Then the pic-sets can be used with other heads than the one with which they were initially set up -- with some appropriate scaling, since the actual size of the face differs from one Poser figure head to another.

I'll be installing it tonight and giving it a go hopefully tomorrow.  My ADHD makes complex tasks incredibly difficult for me to complete...I even get distracted from vidya games.

Let me know if you have questions.