See it is a head start and not having to give advice to people who are experienced , if you gather people that place like in a mall products on such a place it works also it helps new comers Look at it as a test on how your reaction might be seing your intention are they rather friendly or offensive. So you don't like what you seen that is ok it is a matter of taste. and one is not just called vendor because he sells here or at Daz. :)

gate posted at 10:13PM Sat, 20 February 2016 - #4256375

See it is a head start and not having to give advice to people who are experienced , if you gather people that place like in a mall products on such a place it works also it helps new comers Look at it as a test on how your reaction might be seing your intention are they rather friendly or offensive. So you don't like what you seen that is ok it is a matter of taste. and one is not just called vendor because he sells here or at Daz. :)

It's not really about a matter of taste, it's the fact that you are lecturing about things you can't give actual perspective on. If you're selling items on a site that no one knows about, of course you're not going to get your items pirated. If you're selling items that are questionable in terms of copyright, it's hard to give perspective either. I've started selling at smaller sites and erotic sites as well way before I sold items at DAZ. All during that time, my items have been pirated; even when I was learning how to use DAZ Studio and before I started selling, my renders were taken and sold and I received no commission or even credit. So I really would like to know how your inexperience in not selling items that anyone knows about to be pirated can be relevant in a discussion where vendors that sell far more items and have had items pirated.

Well I guess I never mentioned that I never used DS ! and actually do not plan to use it. the argument never was ether being a DS user or not, just was based on Encryptions the actual Marketing idea in this thread. Such arguments still are helpful to Improve if you believe it or not, I can even learn from your statements to see what could be done differently or better there is always some positive things found in such arguments

how I read your statements it means you have been Pirated several times , and I guess you do agree to the Encryption project from DAZ ? and does it include that you are certain that it will not happen after the changes? I do not see your opinion about the incoming changes! is it good , is it Bad will you gain more or Less ? you as a experienced Vendor should be able to answer me these questions from your point of View. would be more constructive saying ! hey the Idea from Daz is great and I beleive that it will protect me and Increase my sales.

gate posted at 10:27PM Sat, 20 February 2016 - #4256378

Well I guess I never mentioned that I never used DS ! and actually do not plan to use it. the argument never was ether being a DS user or not, just was based on Encryptions the actual Marketing idea in this thread. Such arguments still are helpful to Improve if you believe it or not, I can even learn from your statements to see what could be done differently or better there is always some positive things found in such arguments

That's fair enough, but the subject is really about DAZ Studio products being encrypted and how that affects people that are actually using DAZ Studio. But I do have to be honest when I've offered my opinions in the Poser forurm, and even though I owned several copies of Poser (up to Poser 10) and used it create materials and render for my promos for my products, I was told to get out because it was "Poser forum". I don't want to throw that argument up, but I do want to know how the matter of encryption affects you when you aren't using DAZ Studio and you have no intentions to do so either? To me it sounds more like a pile on rather than an honest discussion on not wanting to use encrypted DAZ products. The forums are volatile enough without adding these types of posts that really add fuel to the fire.

Since you would be a 3rd party vendor, your products really wouldn't be affected and they would still be loaded into DAZ studios with no problem and customers would still have to adjust the materials to get your product to render correctly.

gate posted at 12:13AM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256379

how I read your statements it means you have been Pirated several times , and I guess you do agree to the Encryption project from DAZ ? and does it include that you are certain that it will not happen after the changes? I do not see your opinion about the incoming changes! is it good , is it Bad will you gain more or Less ? you as a experienced Vendor should be able to answer me these questions from your point of View. would be more constructive saying ! hey the Idea from Daz is great and I beleive that it will protect me and Increase my sales.

As far as as encryption goes, it probably bears a story that needs to be shared.

Previously, I would get PMs from users saying that one of my items was shared. I would get the copy the link to the site and create a DCMA takedown notice to remove the link. The site owner would see it and the link, and the file would be removed. Currently, I would see a file link, send it to DAZ and get a response basically shrugging their shoulders that nothing could be done to remove the line. Other vendors would basically stop looking at these PMs as nothing could be done to remove links and they basically would have to live with items being pirated as nothing could be done to remove it.

The issue then becomes, do you just sit and not do anything to remove the links? Or do you try to do something to slow down the piracy?

And that's really where the encryption comes in. It doesn't totally stop piracy, but it is an attempt to slow down the piracy of files. It doesn't increase sales, but it does mitigate the rate at which items are shared.

So far I've seen that people in the forums basically want to just want DAZ and vendors to do absolutely nothing in regards to slowing down piracy of items. Realistically, that doesn't make sense. The issue becomes do we try to make a compromise to slow down piracy without totally interfering with a customer's workflows or not doing a single thing.

That's really were we are now. Something really needs to be done about items being made but are pirated within hours of being released. The tech may not be foolproof, but something needs to be done so that there isn't a total loss on items added to the store.

I Used to DL pirated anime sondtracks, books (esp. out of print ones that can only be bought 2nd-hand off the internet) I also am trying to compile a list of the old PS_AC type SKU codes. I am vehemently opposed to DRM, but yes, I am all too aware of precisely how rampant the piracy is. Basically, if it is uploaded to the DAZ, Rendo, RDNA, or Hivewire marketplaces, it WILL, without fail, be available on torrent sites within 48 hours. It goes beyond that, however. Some of these sites (which most of us have come across but may not have recognized them for what they are) are warez sites, but not blatant about it. Most famous example is the site and its mirrors that host tens of thousands of 3DS and GSM models. Most of these sites not only pirate commercial products, but also upload other peoples' distribution-prohibited freebies without their permission. Many people innocently link to these sites, not recognizing them for what they are, which unless you recognize some of the pirated models on these sites, you won't recognize as a warez site, either. Even the DAZ and Rendo admins get fooled. Far worse than either of the above, it is also SUPER COMMON for piraters to then upload the pirated products to a 3D marketplace (including Second Life) and sell them as their own-- pirated commercial products AND illegally redistributed freebies. General 3D websites like Turbosquid and CGTrader are PLAGUED with this (which is why it is best to avoid commercial products less than 1 or 2 years old unless it's from a reputable vendor, IMO)

gate posted at 5:19PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256372

You wanna google then go ahead

Freedom Poser DS

and at renderotica

I don't need to hide or lie the one you google is one that has been set up just recently to be a Store and still on testing actually a Sleeping site that I use as tryout and oh just stay friendly :)

Cringe, wow. You must spend a fortune on commercial licensing for that site...

The main graphic on the homepage is a commercially modified version of Rising Swan by Jason Wickens, I imagine you have communicated with him regarding the commercial use of his copyrighted artwork. The use of the HR Giger print Landscape XIX on your Space Jockey freebie, I hear Giger commercial copyright clearances are notoriously difficult to get, numerous 20th century fox content commercial products...

For some reason your stated opinions seem to make a lot more sense to me now... Good luck with the site...

@gate I did give you the heads up. I have been here a while you get to know these things. They will remain friendly, but once you have had your stuff knocked off the concept - let the pirates market your goods for you it is a win win situation might be a bit of a hard sell. Of course if you do somehow achieve this then all i can really say is ..... Mr Gate do I have a job for you.

Well actually for me it does not matter as I mostly use Poser , but still in the back of your head thinking would it ever be worth to give DS a shot . so I would be a newbie in this sector and would have to decide ! is it worth the hassle. already hard enough when a Poser user would love to have a DS only product sold asking me if I would offer a remake that could be used in Poser in case that he would purchase that Product.

As for gyger to bad he fell and actually was a Nabor ok he sure was a little special I got a House hes Cusin owned few decades back and we were looking at Drawings he made in hes school times while he had class in GR. A great man but at the same time always the talk of the little Village. He got pretty upsett about the Treatment he got from the movie industry also how hes stuff has been abused in NY but this is another story. I thought I seen also a Jockey that would honor Him sold at Daz but I might be wrong as I don't really surf allot there. but we don't really wanna talk about integrated Ideas that might show up in our creations , it might get a little complicated.

In a way I could say great Daz shall do it this way same as many tried and done! it might be a chance that many go back to Poser so the market bounces from one side to the other . but I think if both would work hand in hand it all would be easyer for the Creator the customer and the store-owner. rather then to make each other to much concurrence causing separations

Like you mentioned DS users can use Poser stuff in there Programm and will with some slight modifications but Poser users barely cant even if they would like to , assuming Poser does the same thing blocking the Comp-ability and say hey CR2 pp2 ect is our file model and DS should not use it , then for sure there would be a full Separation. all this makes the User the customer and the creator uncomfortable as he needs to decide what will he use with the little time hes got.

@ IceEmpress I sure agree in allot of points , I to have to look twice on the site head if it is really the original Store As for Daz site there were occasionally sites popping up that in the first moment were not to be recognized that it is not DAZ for newbies in specific sectors it would be quiet impossible to tell is is legitimate or not.

So Gate are you saying you don't pay or seek permission for any licensing of the images you're using on your commercial site and in product promos?

Razor? Did I offend you in a personal way of some sort ? or are you feeling personally attacked ? what do you think about the basic Conversation ? Would you Encrypt the Files at Daz and be the first one who exclusive would sell hes Products Encrypted. if you are a vendor there then i guess it would be fair if you have the choice one day.

you just could say yes I do and a little reason why .

The way of your handling things in a indirect way to say Hes a Pirate is exactly the wrong way , my opinion is that exactly this might create em and it is ending up as a Nightmare. if you look at my work it is not to build a Pirate site and if It was it would be the easy way I would take and sure would get more hits in no time.

No you haven't offended me, it just seems you have missed the first 12 pages of the conversation. You have laid out a number of idea's that I would say I fundamentally disagree with. It's not personal, I just disagree with the concepts.

From what I can tell you're saying is that Encryption is only a bad thing, because piracy is essentially a positive or irresistible force. That an artist should be flattered when there work is taken without permission even in aspects where it is used in commercial applications. I have to say as an artist i do disagree with this. Piracy at its heart undermines most forms of legitimate trade and creative commercial value, you could also say piracy is somewhat parasitic in nature feeding of a system while not actually nurturing it in any realistic way. Especially so when it relates to cases of the commercial exploitation of others content.

I notice in your readmes that you ask if someone is going to use one of your products in a specific way, that you request they legitimately purchase said product. And you also have numerous copyright statements throughout your site and readmes. Yet you also seem to have no issue in using others copyrighted content in your own commercial enterprise without permission or request from the legal rights holder. I find this scenario to be common thread with a lot of people who engage in casual piracy. A kind of double standard of morale principal. The expectation that their own rights and entitlements should be respected, but holding others rights in a different regard. To the point that deeming it legitimate to pretend there isn't actually any legal breach if they choose to ignore the rights of others.

Which is the reason I raised the perceived issue with the webpage, it's not personal but central to some of the points you're raising and the direction you have chosen for your enterprise. Which I could only describe as high risk. There is a potential for immediate gain but you run the risk of seeing the store pulled or in fact legal action being taken against you. But honestly that is your risk to take.

Some have made statement that Encryption has repercussions on their workflow or is just inconvenient to them as a user, which is an understandable POV for most to comprehend. And in turn no seller wants to shackle their content in a way that impinges on their paying customers usage of that product. Though I do honestly feel that the approach Daz 3D has taken has been quite kid gloves about it and they have done their best to mitigate customer impact in numerous ways. With the intention of adding a very basic level of security to the digital content sold through their store. And I suspect that many workflow issues will be overcome given time for things like Carrara usage. And I do hope Daz 3D are prioritising addressing issues such as that. The 12 month life on the encryption lock up is also a good compromise that addresses some customers content lockout fears with encrypted product.

I just find your approach to the subject to be rather unconventional and I can't really tell if you have any actual issues with the Daz Encryption system or are just seeking to somewhat humanise piracy to a level where it's seen as a more benign force. And to establish a premise that any attempt to mitigate its actual impacts to a business is unwarranted.

@LPR001 I sure do agree that some mentioned comments would lead to a win win or to a fail situation. I think there are more honest people around then we possibly can imagine some just don't know it jet.I knew people who gotten upset about seing there stuff they worked on hard out there and they Fighted the hard way. It resulted that there sites got smashed they got tottaly riped off until they gave up! they even stopped to Create ! but there were others they went out there saying in a calm way , you know it is something I worked hard on and it would be nice if you would support my Creation. they even offered support to those that they can be creative them selves and bring out something they created. there were even creators who said you could of asked me and I might of given it to you. Some even ended up as Creators contributing allot to communities. they are amongst us amongst the Store staff amongst Vendors. and Razor don't ask me Who or what you will not get any answers ! I came enough around over the past Decade and I know out of facts enough People that had such experiences.

I think that convincing another sides, that there are other ways to get attention, can result to be very constructive.

A side note:

I can go out there on a Horse in an Armour amongst a crowd of people and throw out gold coins and they will all fallow me even place a gold crown on my head not asking where the gold coins came from. this is the basic way of pirates strategy and it cant really be fighted. the only way to do is to convince the ones who took the Coins and placed the Crown that it was wrong this way and that there are other ways to get the coin.

As a paying customer I do take issues with what Daz3d encryption implies. As a paying customer I also take issue with the TOS of the products I purchase form here. I pay and I am told I am basically "renting" not buying a product of my liking. I can not let my kids, mother, friend use the product even from my PC. As a hobbyist I find this disturbing and always have.

In one statement above, it was noted that Daz3d does not go after "warez" sites on behalf of their venders. I find that sad because the ones I have seen actually resell, through memberships, 3D content from all stores. This type of activity has to really rub the creators the wrong way. The members of these sites have disposable cash which the creators will never see. Why not hit those types of places HARD. Instead they make it more of a hassle for the paying customers at Daz3d and treat us ALL like criminals.

I don't get it. Those that use those types of sites don't buy anyway, so why treat the rest of us like scum too.

How would you suggest going after Warez sites?

Through the Data Centers hosting them.

Does that work on a global scale? My understanding is that some Data Centers are hosted in countries that there is no legal issue with the practice.

I have seen this same story being played out since 1999. No one has stopped file sharing (ask Microsoft). I foresee encryption inviting a new type of crowd, Crackers. What used to be limited to art hobbyist evolving into the underground warez scene which will give the 3d files more exposure. Remember the release group MAAS..well if its encrypted some will exploit it. These people do it for fun. Right now 3d content if off their radar..encrypt it and they will come.

Daz3d is fighting against an invisible monster that it can not kill but it can be slowed. I guess it just depends on which fight they want to choose..but choose wisely because it will/can bite them in the butt. Encryption will bring out the Pros.

It just offends me that Daz3d has decided paying customers are a risk to their bottom line. We have all been lumped together.

Yes, there are different laws for different countries and some more difficult to take down but if it is such an issue why not use the resources to hit the true criminals instead of making new ones.

I understand what you're saying and your points are valid, but I don't know if you can say we have all been lumped together, the encryption is primarily designed to stop/slow illicit file sharing. To the majority of users in the majority of usage cases the encryption would make no difference to the functionality of the product. In a similar way to the encryption that is used to protect this web page.

It is Daz3d's call, but if I were a seller I would NOT want more trouble from more sources. Once encrypted they lure a whole new set of issues at a scale that would blow ones mind.

What they have planned has not been thoroughly been thought out. It seems they have forgotten the past and are inviting a new set of trouble.

Kim222 posted at 2:49AM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #4256460

Yes, there are different laws for different countries and some more difficult to take down but if it is such an issue why not use the resources to hit the true criminals instead of making new ones.

"Some more difficult to take down" is somewhat of an understatement. The US government itself has had trouble bringing down rogue websites, take wikileaks for example. You think Daz can muster more resources?

Kim222 posted at 3:02AM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #4256467

It is Daz3d's call, but if I were a seller I would NOT want more trouble from more sources. Once encrypted they lure a whole new set of issues at a scale that would blow ones mind.

What they have planned has not been thoroughly been thought out. It seems they have forgotten the past and are inviting a new set of trouble.

Actually encryption should pretty well narrow the sources from what it was. Any product was a free for all for any to do with as they please. Now it will require specialist skills to file share an encrypted pair of Vicky panties. And who knows what a specialist may decide to add in there as a little added extra.

Razor42 posted at 10:03AM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256464

the encryption is primarily designed to stop/slow illicit file sharing.

My point is it will accelerate it.

Kim222 posted at 3:06AM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #4256471

Razor42 posted at 10:03AM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256464

the encryption is primarily designed to stop/slow illicit file sharing.

My point is it will accelerate it.

I can't really see how?

Razor42 posted at 10:10AM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256469

Actually encryption should pretty well narrow the sources from what it was.

Hold on to that thought you are going to need it. You underestimate or do not understand the bigger picture.

Kim222 posted at 3:19AM Mon, 22 February 2016 - #4256476

Razor42 posted at 10:10AM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256469

Actually encryption should pretty well narrow the sources from what it was.

Hold on to that thought you are going to need it. You underestimate or do not understand the bigger picture.

Maybe not, but all i can do is as any other. Make action today, plan for tomorrow and hope for a better future for all of us.

One last point I would like to make.

The decisions Daz3d makes will effect the competitors stores the most in the beginning. Once the encryption is broken all is for nothing. Then things will be as they were.

Rendo and all the other stores will suffer the most. Those that share their files at pay sites or torrent joints will still do it and guess which files? So when this is fully in effect it will make a financial hit but it will cause a ripple effect for the other stores as well. Since many creators sell at both this should get interesting.

Now that is funny :) or rather not :) I sure hope that no "W" People are reading this .

@Razor ! I am not sure what Kimm222 really meant it seemed rather the question on how to find a solution that does not Restrict the costumer placing them into the same boat when using Purchased products within family members at RISC to be treated like criminals if they do.

or do they have to purchase the Product 3x for 3 computers and 3 family members if not then 2 of 3 are Pirates for the creator and the store a good heads-start it would triple the sales for renting

Edit: Upps was a little late with my comment :)

gate posted at 12:48PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256498

@Razor ! I am not sure what Kimm222 really meant it seemed rather the question on how to find a solution that does not Restrict the costumer placing them into the same boat when using Purchased products within family members at RISC to be treated like criminals if they do.

or do they have to purchase the Product 3x for 3 computers and 3 family members if not then 2 of 3 are Pirates for the creator and the store a good heads-start it would triple the sales for renting

What does the EULA normally say for every product you buy? They are licenses for one user (and that's not only for DAZ for all brokerages) and if you share it with family then yes you are in violation of the EULA. So basically you're not supposed to be sharing files between people in the first place, so encrypting for one user should not affect something that you were not supposed to be doing.

No, you are saying I can not let others use my PC where this stuff I buy is housed. So you are basically telling me if one of my kids decide to give a look at it I'm a criminal? I also only have 1 windows license, am I a criminal there as well?

Kim222 posted at 1:55PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256511

No, you are saying I can not let others use my PC where this stuff I buy is housed. So you are basically telling me if one of my kids decide to give a look at it I'm a criminal? I also only have 1 windows license, am I a criminal there as well?

The EULA specifically says what you can and can not do with the license. If you do not agree, then you can not use it. The EULAs have been in place for years and have been one user licenses.. so you could have it on multiple machines (like a home machine and a laptop), but only you are entitled to use it.. not family or friends. This is not a new development. I would suggest reading the EULA to see what it says.

In terms of DAZ, the EULA has not been more restrictive but actually expanded to include the ability to have models 3D printed for personal use and allow using part of genesis' mesh for use in geografted products for example. But who gets to use the product has not changed.

Well printed products are such a thing Ds product cant be printed as details are not in the mesh but just projections of textures on a low res geometry so actually useless to get a good print there you need better apps like Zbrush !

gate posted at 2:38PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256524

Well printed products are such a thing Ds product cant be printed as details are not in the mesh but just projections of textures on a low res geometry so actually useless to get a good print there you need better apps like Zbrush !

In DS you can increase subdivisions and export that for 3D printing. So if you're printing a mod with HD morphs, you would simply export that to send. It would depend on if the model you are using is watertight to begin with. But this is getting beyond the point I was making about being EULA being expanded.

My luck that the music industries and Video industries don't have such a strict License like only one can hear or see else both have to pay imagine a evening with friends and each one needs to get a license to watch the movie or listen to the song

Some Represent-ants of artists are just not flexible enough or is it the artist that asks such restrictions.

Questions:

Can a artist that sell at Daz make hes own eula for the product he owns and sells or does the sale of the product through daz just include one way ?

will if flexible still be possible to have the download adapted to the individual permissions of the copyright holder?

as a vendor of your own proprety are yo allowed to see who when and how much is sold?

will this if your sales are Visible still granted when it is integrated as Clowd into the program?

It is your stuff you sell Right and you remain the copyright holder?

is such a system trustfull when integrated in a Programm that you get what you deserve as Vendor?

even Sony had huuge issues with there clowd getting hacked , if someone can hack a sony how bad will it be with DS it that happens?

what wil be if with the new system logins will be cracked through the application?

will take Daz charge for the damaged customers?

as far as I know Programs and clowds can be verry sensitive it even goes under the datacontroll rights Like collecting personal datas. is it granted if that Daz does not collect data over the legal period of time ?

you never learn enough can be useful for future planing on recruiting new artists :) I sure hope my kidds will not have to grow into a world that asks a coin on every click.

Okay, I read the EULA in full. ( lol like anyone ever really reads those things). Just my dumb luck no one that shares my family PC has any interest in this 3D stuff, so I am safe.

Sad that the world is so distrusting.

gate posted at 4:17PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256541

My luck that the music industries and Video industries don't have such a strict License like only one can hear or see else both have to pay imagine a evening with friends and each one needs to get a license to watch the movie or listen to the song

Some Represent-ants of artists are just not flexible enough or is it the artist that asks such restrictions.

Questions:

Can a artist that sell at Daz make hes own eula for the product he owns and sells or does the sale of the product through daz just include one way ?

will if flexible still be possible to have the download adapted to the individual permissions of the copyright holder?

as a vendor of your own proprety are yo allowed to see who when and how much is sold?

will this if your sales are Visible still granted when it is integrated as Clowd into the program?

It is your stuff you sell Right and you remain the copyright holder?

is such a system trustfull when integrated in a Programm that you get what you deserve as Vendor?

even Sony had huuge issues with there clowd getting hacked , if someone can hack a sony how bad will it be with DS it that happens?

what wil be if with the new system logins will be cracked through the application?

will take Daz charge for the damaged customers?

as far as I know Programs and clowds can be verry sensitive it even goes under the datacontroll rights Like collecting personal datas. is it granted if that Daz does not collect data over the legal period of time ?

---

you never learn enough can be useful for future planing on recruiting new artists :) I sure hope my kidds will not have to grow into a world that asks a coin on every click.

Let me ask a question to your question. When you are selling your items at renderotica, are you able to do the same things that you are asking me?

The rules are the same at DAZ or any brokerage, otherwise no one would sell through them; they would just sell through their own website.

It's puzzling that people think that DAZ is a huge slave driver compared to other sites. It's not.

actually I communicate with people and get asked many times what can I do , I just say do what you wish , and you don't have to give me credit . as it is your work after you purchased my product , I hope that the one can be happy with what he got and some little dreams may come true. see I usually try as much as I can to do a creation by my self , I bought allot but I never used it , I did just buy to support the work one done . I think that an artist can only grow if he gets inspired this helps him to find hes individuality. and others that I see no matter who I try to see what is hes strength and I will try to give advice or offer support. " I do not say all the time hey it is forbidden " the World is a forest of signs "you shall not do" at the end not allowing you to do anything without that you could be culpable of a crime.

I am not perfect so I never stop learning I am an artist and love to see when others grow as artists , not for greed not for gold and not for Kingdoms.

and allot of times one came and said hey I like your work and I wish I was able or I wish I had ! then I give. I always got back what I gave in a way then what you do will return.

not daz is the Slave Driver ! Daz is just the tool of the Vendors. like the sword of the Knight !

and Yes my products at rotica have that eula because I am still the one who sells it. and I know who how much and when I sold it. but well Rotica is like freedom one of many just a Sector. and I must say Rotica is the only store that did never disappointed me

it is as I said In the Net one can be many so treat them like your friend as it could be one you know.

gate posted at 5:14PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256574

actually I communicate with people and get asked many times what can I do , I just say do what you wish , and you don't have to give me credit . as it is your work after you purchased my product , I hope that the one can be happy with what he got and some little dreams may come true. see I usually try as much as I can to do a creation by my self , I bought allot but I never used it , I did just buy to support the work one done . I think that an artist can only grow if he gets inspired this helps him to find hes individuality. and others that I see no matter who I try to see what is hes strength and I will try to give advice or offer support. " I do not say all the time hey it is forbidden " the World is a forest of signs "you shall not do" at the end not allowing you to do anything without that you could be culpable of a crime.

I am not perfect so I never stop learning I am an artist and love to see when others grow as artists , not for greed not for gold and not for Kingdoms.

and allot of times one came and said hey I like your work and I wish I was able or I wish I had ! then I give. I always got back what I gave in a way then what you do will return.

not daz is the Slave Driver ! Daz is just the tool of the Vendors. like the sword of the Knight !

and Yes my products at rotica have that eula because I am still the one who sells it. and I know who how much and when I sold it. but well Rotica is like freedom one of many just a Sector. and I must say Rotica is the only store that did never disappointed me

it is as I said In the Net one can be many so treat them like your friend as it could be one you know.

Sorry I didn't understand a thing you typed.

But simply with a brokerage you own the products you sell through them as you would with any other brokerage. The EULA is the same for all products sold. So basically nothing is different between any brokerage including Renderotica.

Well I understand that you could not understand as you are a businessman guided by rules :) but see you could not answer one question I asked getting just counter questions or read the eula does not really answer them.

Quote : Let me ask a question to your question

is that all ?

Questions:

Can a artist that sell at Daz make hes own eula for the product he owns and sells or does the sale of the product through daz just include one way ?

Any considered/wanted changes to the base EULA should be taken to Daz directly as the EULA is a legal document and what may seem like a small change may have lasting impact to the content sold under that license. Despite what has been represented here the base EULA spells out terms for the usage of products under a typical personal usgae license for this kind of content. Most artist are happy to let Daz 3D look after the legalities of their product leaving them to focus on creating.

will if flexible still be possible to have the download adapted to the individual permissions of the copyright holder?

This makes little sense and would make an impossible situation, the idea of a store that potentially sell 1000's to 10,000's of products daily negotiating usage rights and individually tailored content packages would push up the price of each product and be a nightmare to manage the rights of products. Individual permissions is not a feasible setup for the sale of bulk content and I think you would struggle to see it anywhere where you find high volume and low price point sales . But if usage was required outside of the currently offered terms you could always enquire to the rights holder for special consideration which may be conditionally granted.

as a vendor of your own proprety are yo allowed to see who when and how much is sold?

As a PA you do have access to quite a range of data regarding the sales of your product.

will this if your sales are Visible still granted when it is integrated as Clowd into the program?

Sorry you have lost me with this one. I'm not sure which "Clowd" you're referring to?

It is your stuff you sell Right and you remain the copyright holder?

Your rights always remain yours until the point you choose to waive those rights.

is such a system trustfull when integrated in a Programm that you get what you deserve as Vendor?

Again your question is a little unclear to me, sorry.

even Sony had huuge issues with there clowd getting hacked , if someone can hack a sony how bad will it be with DS it that happens?

Again I don't see how this is relevant, malicious attacks on any digital platforms are always bad. The level of "bad" is determined by the level of breach and the ability of the platform to reinstate security measures and restore services.

what wil be if with the new system logins will be cracked through the application?

Like most business I am sure Daz would have implemented security protocols and defences in place to guard against or deal with hypotheticals similar to what you have described here. What will be? Will be. The future's not ours to see.

will take Daz charge for the damaged customers?

Any and all liability terms are as is enforceable by law or in the terms agreed to by the parties involved. As is in the case of any damages.

as far as I know Programs and clowds can be verry sensitive it even goes under the datacontroll rights Like collecting personal datas. is it granted if that Daz does not collect data over the legal period of time ?

Er, what? I would say it's granted that Daz 3D as a legitimate business operates within the terms of the law.

Quote: even Sony had huuge issues with there clowd getting hacked , if someone can hack a sony how bad will it be with DS it that happens? Again I don't see how this is relevant, malicious attacks on any digital platforms are always bad. The level of "bad" is determined by the level of breach and the ability of the platform to reinstate security measures and restore services.

Well Sony had a pretty bad attack through PS3 it caused that hackers could get access to Personal accounts and payment methods of Costumers Causing millions of damage to Sony as far as I understand DS is connected to accounts could this not be a vulnerable point in the program. I read about worries that the encryption might get hacked! so what could happen the way these Improvements are announced what if a hacker figures out how to decrypt the protection and gets into sensitive personal data's ?

I guess that the hackers intention rather was to get the online games for free over the program but hacking this caused to access costumers accounts and rip there valuable Credit cards.

The EULA specifically says what you can and can not do with the license. If you do not agree, then you can not use it. The EULAs have been in place for years and have been one user licenses.. so you could have it on multiple machines (like a home machine and a laptop), but only you are entitled to use it.. not family or friends.

TF that's ridiculous! And it seems that my dad and I have been violating this rule for years since we play the same games on a PC. And what in the world are schools and non-profits supposed to do? Get an indie license from DAZ or a commercial license from Rendo?! They are not businesses, they are NPOs! Wow, I had no idea that so many businesses do not support schools or higher education... And you actually support this?!

My luck that the music industries and Video industries don't have such a strict License

Only because the US supreme court won't let them. Believe me, they and the movie industry HAVE tried to do exactly this and more (they have fought tooth and nail against making backup copies or having the file on more than one device) Despite the USSC rulings, they still lie to customers and tell them that backups and the like are illegal. You have NO idea how much they have fought stuff like this ever since the release of the VCR.

gate posted at 8:55PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256585

Well I understand that you could not understand as you are a businessman guided by rules :) but see you could not answer one question I asked getting just counter questions or read the eula does not really answer them.

Quote : Let me ask a question to your question

is that all ?

I didn't bother answering because it wasn't a question that really didn't need to be answered. I as said previously, I'm surprised that people actually think DAZ treats their vendors worse than other brokerages but somehow still keeps their vendors selling product through their store. It simply didn't make sense to even respond. Vendors are what makes any brokerage and they are free to go where ever they wish. They own their own products to sell and they are not employees. If DAZ was so horrible, no one would sell through them.

IceEmpress posted at 9:03PM Sun, 21 February 2016 - #4256615

The EULA specifically says what you can and can not do with the license. If you do not agree, then you can not use it. The EULAs have been in place for years and have been one user licenses.. so you could have it on multiple machines (like a home machine and a laptop), but only you are entitled to use it.. not family or friends.

TF that's ridiculous! And it seems that my dad and I have been violating this rule for years since we play the same games on a PC. And what in the world are schools and non-profits supposed to do? Get an indie license from DAZ or a commercial license from Rendo?! They are not businesses, they are NPOs! Wow, I had no idea that so many businesses do not support schools or higher education...

In the case of schools and nonprofits, they have worked out deals with companies for educational pricing. They simply don't buy something once and install it on mulitple machines as that is illegal. Corporations can work out multiple licenses directly with the software company as well. But the key is they've read the EULA and understand what they are buying; if if they need something different, they would see if they can get a different licence... not just do whatever they please once they buy something. Not only would the organization be in hot water legally, but the people involved would get fired at the very least.

And you actually support this?!

I understand exactly what my rights with any software licence I purchase regardless of the company: Adobe, Marvelous, Pixologic, Luxology and DAZ. You can't pass those programs around either legally because they have that stated in their EULAs as well. If you want your family to use a program or content, you have to buy for each or purchase a licence that covers multiple users. When you buy a product you agree to that licence.

EDIT: Keep in mind that for programs like Microsoft Office they may have a per machine licence, so that people can use programs like Word on one machine. But that does not mean that you can buy one copy of Microsoft Word and install it on your childrens' computers (unless you bought a family license)... that would be a violation as well.

I understand exactly what my rights with any software licence I purchase regardless of the company: Adobe, Marvelous, Pixologic, Luxology and DAZ. You can't pass those programs around either legally because they have that stated in their EULAs as well. If you want your family to use a program or content, you have to buy for each or purchase a licence that covers multiple users. When you buy a product you agree to that licence.

If these negotiations exist, then where is the "Nonprofit" vendor license at the Daz store, where is it here on Renderosity? On software sites like Adobe, they state straight up what the price is for schools. Why is it held secret so that few even know that it exists, esp. those for whom English is not their first language and therefore can't even understand the EULA? (Hell, I have trouble understanding it as well in some areas but thought I thoguht sure I understood everything relevant.) This is especially true for non-Daz originals since there is no way to contact a PA directly for a non-profit license. It also makes it easy for a company to cheat non-profits since there is no transparency of transactions or set prices.

When exactly did this start? The EULA that I have ever fully read for any program is that it is for either 1 residential household/apartment room or (usually) a max of 3-4 computers at a single business. (I rarely read the EULA because it's alway so damn long and I never imagined it would include anything like this. Usually I just read the privacy statement. I've read the EULA on the old DAZ exes several times and don't remember reading anything like that.)
I am aware of the distribution thing-- I thought the "no redistribution" thing for 3D models only applied to selling it, letting someone put it on their machine as well outside of your household, or not transferring ownership.