Edit Poly modifier is just a way to pass some of the modeling functions you get in editable polygons up the stack.  There are some operations that can't be passed up as a modifier, so you will find there are things you can't do in the edit poly modifier that can be done at the base level. However, there's some things very useful about the edit poly as a modifier as well, like the ability to maintain animated information, or to "hold" settings (in animated mode), which allows you to go back down and adjust those parameters later.

For example, if you set the edit poly modifier to "animated" mode, instead of the default "model" mode, and add any kind of modeling operation, like say an inset, you can add other modifiers to the stack, do more changes to the object, but the parameter settings of your inset on the edit poly modifier are stored eternally.  So, you can go back down to that modifier, click on the inset again button again, and actually re-adust the settings at any point in the creation process.  As long as your stack is intact.

This can be very powerful for visualization, for example, or for any kind of presentation purposes; you can show clients what the results would look like, for example, at different parameter settings, which could result in a different object appearance.  If you have multiple edit poly modifiers in your object, set to "animate" mode, you have the power to adjust whatever operation you did on those modifiers, even if you have them keyframed.  It's been refered to as the "ultimate undo", and while there are some benefits also to a modeling history, as in other apps like Maya and Cinema 4D, the procedural nature of the modifier stack offers certain functionality not possible any other way. 

Lets count how many times I can say "for example" in a sentence. Sorry bout that.  I kept getting distracted as I was typing that response.

"For example, if you set the edit poly modifier to "animated" mode, instead of the default "model" mode"

I'm not sure  I know what this is. Where is this mode changer. I don't think I've ever noticed it.

Quote - I'm not sure  I know what this is. Where is this mode changer. I don't think I've ever noticed it.

There's two radio tickers directly beneath the "Edit Poly Mode" rollout in the modifier.  One for Model, and another for Animate.

The help files say:

"The Edit Poly modifier provides explicit editing tools for different sub-object levels of the selected object: vertex, edge, border, polygon, and element. The Edit Poly modifier includes most capabilities of the base Editable Poly object, except for Vertex Color information, Subdivision Surface rollout, Weight and Crease settings, and Subdivision Displacement rollout. Edit Poly lets you animate sub-object transforms and parameter changes. In addition, because it's a modifier, you can retain the object creation parameters and change them later."

When it's in modeling mode, which is default, the modifier locks you into whatever procedure you do on it.  In Animate mode, the last operation; be it an extrusion, bevel, inset, or whatever, is perserved to be edited later, if necessary, or animated with keyframe animation, and passed up the stack.

Don't feel bad about never noticing that.  If we hadn't covered it in our classes, I would have never noticed either, and I've talked to many excellent modelers who didn't know what that feature can really do, and thought it was just for animating objects or something mundane.

It's a really powerful procedural feature, that lends a great deal of practical use to the edit poly modifier, and gives options to your workflow that I haven't seen an equal to in many other modeling packages.

If animation mode is so powerful it begs the question why as to why model mode is the default. I'll have to experiment with it. Thanks.

Quote - If animation mode is so powerful it begs the question why as to why model mode is the default. I'll have to experiment with it. Thanks.

Because holding attributes is probably more process intensive, and there are modifiers which can screw up the results of the animation mode.  You have to know how or when it's logical to pass cetain procedures up the stack to achieve specific results.  Most people just want to model something static, and don't care about the ability to change or animate what they are doing, as they go.  Also, because it retains procedure or animation information, using Animate mode for every edit poly modifier in the stack will eventually cause the system to slow down, if your stack gets really deep.

Now that I'm home and have Max in front of me, I've had the opportunity to take a gander at the different modes. I've reread your posts at least 5 times each and I still can't quite wrap my head around exactly what the Animate Mode does.

"When it's in modeling mode, which is default, the modifier locks you into whatever procedure you do on it.  In Animate mode, the last operation; be it an extrusion, bevel, inset, or whatever, is perserved to be edited later, if necessary, or animated with keyframe animation, and passed up the stack."

If I understand correctly, the animate mode allows me to modify the last operation even after I've clicked the check mark. I thought it would allow me to modify the 2nd, 3rd or 4th previous operation similar to what History does in Photoshop.

For example:

• I create an inset,
• then extrude that inset,
• followed by a negative bevel to create a cavity,
• finally a chamfer to round out the inside of the bevel.

Can I go back to the original inset and change the size because it was too small (or large) to begin with?

Quote - Now that I'm home and have Max in front of me, I've had the opportunity to take a gander at the different modes. I've reread your posts at least 5 times each and I still can't quite wrap my head around exactly what the Animate Mode does.

"When it's in modeling mode, which is default, the modifier locks you into whatever procedure you do on it.  In Animate mode, the last operation; be it an extrusion, bevel, inset, or whatever, is perserved to be edited later, if necessary, or animated with keyframe animation, and passed up the stack."

If I understand correctly, the animate mode allows me to modify the last operation even after I've clicked the check mark. I thought it would allow me to modify the 2nd, 3rd or 4th previous operation similar to what History does in Photoshop.

For example:

• I create an inset,
• then extrude that inset,
• followed by a negative bevel to create a cavity,
• finally a chamfer to round out the inside of the bevel.

Can I go back to the original inset and change the size because it was too small (or large) to begin with?

You can, if you put those other operations on their own edit poly as well.  It's for having a procedural link back to that particular modeling operation in the stack.  Do this exercise...

• Create a plane with some segments.
• Add edit poly modifier, and tick "Animate" mode.
• In polygon sub-object level, CTRL-A to select all faces in the plane, then perform an inset by a small amount using "by polygon".
• Leave all the inset faces selected, and do not exit sub-object mode.
• Now add a Delete Mesh modifier on top of the Edit Poly in the stack.  This should delete all your inset faces that were selected, but leave you with a "lattice" type grid plane, with square holes.
• Add a shell modifier on top of that, and increase the outer amount until the object is extruded thickness.  Doesn't matter how thick; it's just an extrusion, so can be as thick as you like.
• Now go back down to edit poly, and under the Edit Poly Mode rollout, where you clicked the "animate" ticker, click the "Settings" button.

This will bring up your Inset caddy again, with the same settings you performed in that inset command, and now you can adjust the inset you had created to a different amount.  Do that, and you will see the holes in your grid getting bigger or smaller as you adjust the amount.

I imagine you can see how this is a powerful feature for presentation purposes (for arch/viz designers), or a great way to create unusual animations on your model (if you keyframe those changes), or just a good way to  experiment with different settings as you model an object, to see how different parameters would affect the result.

Man, you just blew my mind. I always had a feeling Max could do this and I've seen tuts where guys did do exactly this, but never really grasped how they did it.

Awesome.

My god.  All these years, and I never knew how to use that animate mode, because I never tried clicking the damn Settings button to bring up the parameters!  My stubbornness just assumed it was for adjusting something already animated! Not only that, but I'm totally ashamed to admit that I didn't realize until now that the DELETE MESH modifier could also be used on sub-object selections!  Yep.  Believe that one?  I thought it was just there to be used for deleting a mesh at the object level, and useful for making things "disappear" in an animation (which it is).  I feel completely amateur right now, after 10 years of using Max.

Really quick, one other interesting thing I noticed is that I can add two or more edit polys in the stack as you said, and all the parameters seem editable until I press "commit", or "cancel" buttons.  It appears I can also decide to select different sets of  polygons on the object, in those edit poly modifiers, and completely change where I first created those actions (insets, extrusions, bevels, or whatever).  This is more than interesting to me!  This is very useful, and I really didn't know I could do this.  Why weren't these features pushed as bullet points by Autodesk when they were implimented?!  I'm assuming these things were available for a very long time in Max, and I never knew it until now because no one talks about them!  I guess if I read the manual like a novel, I would know, but this is really cool stuff here, and should have been considered revolutionary capabilities at the time they were put into the software years ago!  Sorry to sound like a newb here guys, but I'm doing a face-palm to myself right now.

Quote - Man, you just blew my mind. I always had a feeling Max could do this and I've seen tuts where guys did do exactly this, but never really grasped how they did it. Awesome.

Ditto!  Read my post above.  I'm dumbfounded right now.  I mean, I knew that there were options that made max a very unusual and powerful modelling app, but I really thought that this animate mode was something totally different, and for a totally different purpose than it is for.  That was just my stubborn assumptions, and I never bothered to look it up, or dig deeper.

Man, all these YEARS I could have been putting all this great functionality to use, and I just never did.  I can't believe it.

I remember reading about some of this kind of thing over at CGArchitect.com a couple years back, but I really thought it was only for overall animation puposes, and not for this kind of thing.  The delete mesh on subobject is what I'm really killing myself over.  How did I not know that this long?  It's in the damn manual I'm sure, but I never bothered to look.  I mean, I thought I knew what it was for.  LOL!

Maxxx, this is what I was talking about that day in the email, about animating the holes in a surface, but there's a lot more you can do with it as well, as you can imagine.

You can use the modifier stack, along with Animate Mode in Edit Poly, to do some really amazing procedural effects as well, without complex wiring of parameters, or using plugins.

One really amazing thing you can do is create morph targets, using the edit poly Animate Mode, which can be used to create some very interesting or useful animated geometry effects.  You can add changes to the topology in edit poly, and then extract those changes with the Morpher modifier, using "Capture Current State", and use them in different morph channels very easily.  Of course, this only works with topology changes that are performed through parameter-driven operations (inset, extrude, bevel, outline, bridge, etc).  Manual changes to subobjects in the edit poly are not, to my knowledge, editable in Animate Mode.  I'm pretty sure that any operation which can bring up a caddy, to change parameters, can be adjusted in Edit Poly Animate Mode.  I could be mistaken there though.

All of this just shows it pays to read the manual. :blushing:

RTFM baby!