Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/messages.ez?ForumID=12356&Form.ShowMessage=1552004&Reply=1560146#76

This might be of interest.

Sure. Typical corporate language. My BS-o-meter is in the red zone. If I read well, however, it translates as : "wait and see what we're up to : we want to sell". This seems quite sensible to me.

So Poser 6 may be Poser 5 - Poser 5 bugs + Shade 7 features, meaning an incremental upgrade will be very expensive, diverting people from Poser 6 to Daz Studio. Or Poser 6 will be stripped down and reorganized to compete with Daz Studio, and Shade 8 will use Poser 5 features.

Sorry, big fan of Japanese products, babes, etc., but this reminds me of the Big Huge land purchases by Japanese in the US in the 70's and 80's- that mostly all went Belly-Up in the 90's. I hope they didn't pay too much for Poser, as it seems other US and European companies "passed" on it after seeing what DAZ is up to. The Japanese have not done well marketing their 3D software in the US and the other big Japanese Movie project- (Can't even remember the name- highly realistic characters in a BORING Sci-Fi plot- came out in 2001) was a HUGE MONEY LOSER! (Yes, Japanese GAMES do very well- if its GAMES for Poser then ???) DAZ has the "Tiger By The Tail" because they are an enormously experienced 3D Modeling company entering a market they understand BETTER THAN Curious Labs did (obviously) and their new DAZ Studio only ACCELERATES their marketplace standing. It will take the E-Frontier people at least one year, if not two, to really get up to speed with this. (I've worked with Japanese companies and know that the "rubber meeting the road" part of it is much more difficult that it initially appears!)

What DAZ studio ?

Ummm ... guys, they've just purchased the company. They haven't even announced anything about their plans for Poser yet. Let's give it a little time before we bash it. The company announcement is a little awkward, but English isn't his first language, let alone corporatespeak.

"It will take the E-Frontier people at least one year, if not two, to really get up to speed with this." I love how some people can come to sweeping conclusions based on absolutely nothing but their prejudices (as in "pre-judge")... Let's give e-frontiers a chance, okay? As for that other competing software, Compiler gets it right when he says: "What Daz Studio?" -jjsemp

CL's has stated that they are still in charge of poser, just as they were when ?egysis?(sic?) owned Curious Labs, I would not start bashing (as Cresent stated) before you know whats going on...cause the only ones that know whats going on with the future of poser is CL's, who have stated that they are working on poser 5 sr4 and Poser 6 already, so this conspiracy thing that has started it totaly without merit..... ,,,,,Now as for Poser 7 you can start your 'theories'

Hi,

Understanding that forums are very much a place where speculational theories are written, if you read through many of the forum threads on this topic - it might offer a more clear and realistic understanding. Regarding the note from Mr. Ando, I really must ask that you give a little leniency please. Mr. Ando, who has little to no experience in this forum or forums similar to the known posts on the Poser product, and definitely having a language barrier -- his personal note was intended to give personal introduction (very important in the Japanese culture). Also, Compiler, as noted in the original post from CL - there are definitely key words used to describe an acquisition. The words from Ando-san are not "canned" words, but rather his best attempt to assure you of the commitment in this process.

We would love to give all of the answers everyone wishes to know now all the way out to P7 - but as the past has shown - it causes less frustration to users and communities to be upfront and truthful - even when it is to say that a status of planning must take place.

As for Poser now, an SR4 is still planned and in development and expected out in Winter unless any significant issue comes up that is not known about now in the testing period.

e frontier has been a very customer oriented company with quality products and business structures which will remain their focus for their new business unity with CL. We will keep you updated as things progress - again with focus on actual facts rather than speculation.

With kind regards,
Katherine

But, Katherine, it's so much more FUN to speculate -- especially in a visciously negative way. It's much easier to bash a thing down, than it is to build it up. Thanks to Ando-san for his message.

I have no problem with their Good Intentions, and despite some going into a "I'm Bashing Them" mode- I'm not! I've had business involvements with Japanese companies for many years and have loved my trips to Japan for business and fun. I am VERY familiar with Japanese culture and people! Since everything is about speculation here- let's just look at the history of Poser! 1. Original product by Fractal Design. Extremely brilliant group of programmers and art-technology thinkers. 2. "Merged" in with Metacreations to provide, it was said, an "inter-linking" between software like Painter, Bryce, RayDream Studio- guess what- it NEVER HAPPENED! And this by a totally "Cool" and "Innovative" team of corporate thinkers (Kai Krause, etc.) 3. Poser finally wanders into the hands of egisys and MORE big Press Releases on what Wonderful New Things Were Going To Happen!!! Instead, it was a dribbling out of half-assed fixes on a software product that was now Many Years Old! Obviously they couldn't match what the original Fractal Design programmers could do and came up with. Instead just buggy patches and fixes! 4. Now many years later, a Japanese company finally buys them. Fine! It has only given DAZ time to build their own app. People are AMAZED and LOVE Poser because it has been the ONLY GAME IN TOWN! Bring out a new program- like DAZ will be doing- and I think they will leave Old Poser IN THE DUST! The folks with E-Frontier will need to do a LOT to take a now Very OLD Technology like Poser and bring it up to Year 2004 Speed. It will be almost a COMPLETE re-write of the code, I think- if E-Frontier wants to fund it! Good Luck Mr. Ando. I wish you guys success! LOVE your Japanese Babe Characters!!!

For what it is worth I personally dont care who owns whom and what company merges with what What I do care about though is for my software (bought with good money) to function as they promised it would and hasnt so far (after three Service Releases!!!). Im fed up of the crushes, the freezing, the temperamental renderings and the many acrobatics that I need to perform daily in order to make it behave. Correct me if Im unreasonable but I dont want to spend more time mending my tools rather than working on my garden. Therefore Im prepared to jump on the first train out, be it DAZ/Studio or Uncle-Georges-Wonder-3D-Do-It-All, hoping that this time itll take me to my destination instead of going here and there for me to admire the beautiful landscape. This may be a wrong or hasty judgment but, believe me dear friends, Im tired of promises that are never kept. And certainly Im not intending to spend a single euro on any enhanced or improved or totally new concept Poser software until it is proven to me that IT WORKS. Sorry, harsh words but I believe Im voicing many a frustrated customer here and after my zillionth freeze, just minutes ago, I dont feel like being gentle anymore.

panko -- I understand your frustration. I've had to deal with the render freezes, myself. If you don't have it, you might want to consider purchasing Vue d'Esprit 4.2. Your render problems will most likely go away. Mine did.

Thanks for the suggestion Xenophonz. Vue d'Esprit would go on my "next train out" growing list... :-) And did I mention the mysteriously corrupted .PZ3 files??? Like when you open a file after a while to find either a mess or the empty void??? Oh, there is no ending to the list of disasters...! But, enough moaning, I have a train to catch... ;-)

Hi - Veritas777 and Panko (and others), SR4 is close to complete which I understand will likely cover the majority of hardware issues that cause freezing. Veritas777, I also understand your synopsis of the Poser legacy. I came from Fractal Design ('91) so I am personally familiar with then what happened with the Metatools acquistion that created Metacreations. I left for the reasons you express of frustration. CL now has the chance to return to the type of Fractal ethics that is needed in this industry. I know this may be lip service at this point in time, but as many posts are conveying - time - it speak louder than words of now. Kind regards, Katherine

"SR4 is close to complete which I understand will likely cover the majority of hardware issues that cause freezing" Katherine, the freezing situation in Poser 5 is not hardware related; it is simply and plainly due to poor software engineering. Thank you for keeping the community informed anyway. I believe it is news to most of us that SR4 is "close to complete" --CL has been rather evasive on this matter so far.

Katherine: you have the patience of a saint! Thank you! Nevertheless, do forgive me for my rant: I pre-ordered Poser 5 way back before it was released on the faith that Curious Labs would do justice to the evolution of the much loved Poser software. To date, my copy of Poser 5 is still sitting on the shelf, waiting for a stable and usable SR patch. I am still stuck with Poser 4.03, which is now showing its age. Perhaps I am fortunate that money is not an issue (I've not requested for a refund) but cannot help feeling that my "investment" was totally wasted. The whole unforgivable fiasco has left me more than a little disappointed. Least to say, whatever goodwill and optimism I may have felt for Curious Labs has been completely eroded. Sadly, I would be extremely cautious of the next iteration of Poser. End of rant. Nevertheless, I wish both Ando-san and yourself the very best. :-(

Simply to say i am pleased that one company will keep Poser alive.I use it a lot despite its bugs.I am also ok with the future existence of Daz Sudio:but i can say nothing about it because it is not available for now...accordind some it will be a the next best thing in the world but they didn't use it now and then.So I have Poser,i use it and i hope it will be better with a new release update...and i will use and comment about Daz Studio when i will have it,not in my dreams. Thanks to Katherine for informing us!

Hi Arendar,

I don't want to leave your post ignored. But I am not yet able to give any details. I would like to acknowledge that some form of reparation to the initial customers from the launch of P5 must happen. The "how"'s and "what"'s are not in place so it's inappropriate for me to go into this topic too far. I just wanted to post that this will be addressed. It may take up to a year to have the final reparation in place but we will be updating communities as soon as it is possible.

With kind regards,
Katherine

"the other big Japanese Movie project- (Can't even remember the name- highly realistic characters in a BORING Sci-Fi plot- came out in 2001) was a HUGE MONEY LOSER!" Mmmm, and your conclusion that it was a huge money loser is based on what? The movie was called Final Fantasy, and just because you didn't understand the plot doesn't mean it was boring. Did you actually see the movie? Were you expecting a Hollywood storyline from a Japanese film? Sorry for my tone.

Thanks for replying Katherine; you truly have the patience of an angel! I didn't mean to be harsh but rather wanted to sound a "cautionary tale", one which we all can hope, will have a happy ending. Perhaps a phoenix, shining bright, may yet rise from the ashes! ;-)

Hey Katherine (per #19) what about us Poser 5 users that have had no problems with the software, do we get a lil sumthin sumthin too :) (: POSER 5 ROCKS MY SOCKS :)

Titan AE was a big money-loser. But since then there have been pix like Shrek, Nemo, Monster Inc. etc., which tend to indicate the demographic is ready for animation if it's relevant to that demographic, produced by the right company and dumbed-down enough for the lowest common denominator.

Well, my reparation would be a Poser 5 that works as advertised, and the icing on the cake would be a free or minimal charge on the next release... nothing elaborate, just deliver what was originally promised...

Thanks for keeping us informed, Katherine. My post was not intended as a mockery to Mr Ando personally, it's just that certain words feel OK in the corporate circles, and definitely tongue-in-cheek when spoken in the forums. I did not realise that there may have been a language/cultural barrier : I thought that a CEO had people to do his communication for him (you see, I'm not that much of a corporate weasel...). So my apologies to Mr Ando if my post could have hurt someone, it was not my intent. I'm one of those who pre-ordered Poser 5 and got frustrated by the initial problems, but now Poser 5 is definitely my 3D program of choice. Please, keep on the working in this direction. By the way, I'm glad to see that you post a little more often here : it's good to have some news, and even if there are none, just a "hello there" from time to time is very much appreciated in our asylum. Last, but not least : do you plan to make a user's survey in the future to know what would be the improvements we'd like to see in Poser 6 ?

Titan AE was a big money-loser. But since then there have been pix like Shrek, Nemo, Monster Inc. etc., which tend to indicate the demographic is ready for animation if it's relevant to that demographic, produced by the right company and dumbed-down enough for the lowest common denominator. Actually, I thought Titan AE was the dumbest of that lot by far. Final Fantasy was okay but it seemed like it was trying to be Japanese and American and it just didn't quite get either. It didn't help that the cgi actors were almost right, but not quite. Some people found the movie creepy because of the minor imperfections in facial and body movements. As well, Disney's films haven't been doing well because they assume the audience is dumb and they use the same formula over and over again. Shrek did so well, in part, because it took the Disney formula and skewered it. Shrek said, "Hey, you people are smart enough to recognize blatant manipulation" and poked fun them at every turn. Anyhoo, hopefully the next service release to P5 will straighten a lot of stuff out. I use P5 because of the library structure, otherwise I'd go back to PPP. P5 is still very pokey and tempermental for me. Hopefully the next release will like my computer better. Cheers!

"nothing elaborate, just deliver what was originally promised..." Dave-So you expressed so well in these few words the wish of all the frustrated Poser 5 users. And a word for Katherine, who keeps us informed with legendary calm and outstanding courage under fire: My heart goes out to you for all your valiant efforts and I think I speak for everyone here when I say that our somewhat harsh words are not aiming at you; on the contrary we appreciate a lot the feedback you are giving us; our problem lies with CL and their reluctance (or shall I say indifference) to deal with their customers' problems for such a long time. I personally wish you all the best and hope that you are not fighting for a lost cause... :) As for those who had never experienced problems with Poser 5 what can I say? Magic is a wonderful thing as Harry Potter would say ;) I even know some people who never had problems with any of the various Windows OS releases... (nah, I'm jocking.... :)

Crescent,
As adults, we may see Disney films as repetitive and dumbed down, unlike TitanAE, Final Fantasy and Shrek, but then Disney plays to their target audience, which is families with young children. Believe me, anyone with young children pretty much know how the Disney effect works, making names like Nemo, Sully and Stitch part of our daily lives. Except for maybe Brother Bear, not sure where you think that Disney hasn't done well. Lilo and STitch, Monsters Inc (released the same year as Shrek) and Finding Nemo have all had stellar box office and DVD sales. In fact, Monsters Inc (#4) and Nemo (#1) are the top sellers for this season, making Disney the projected big winner. People like light stories.

As to Shrek, it was more about revenge than just targetting Disney's tried and true formula. Not sure if you know the story there, but Jeff Katzenberg was head of Feature Animation and he, along with the Disney artists, created what was deemed the new age of animation with hits like Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, and others. Frank Wells (president of Walt Disney) hit a tree while skiing and died. Michael Eisner (CEO of WD) refused to make Katzenberg president. Eisner, instead took both positions and left Katzenberg high and dry. This angered him and he left with much fanfare and squabbling to join Dreamworks. Shrek, since it was already a Disney-esque fantasy provided an excellent venue for Katzenberg to direct that anger in the form of poking fun at everything he saw wrong with the Disney empire. In fact, although DreamWorks denies it, Lord Farquat was speculated to have been based on Eisner, who runs Disney much like a kingdom of which he is King. Except though for Shrek, their other offerings at DreamWorks (Antz, El Dorado, Spirit) have all been failures. Katzenberg and Disney were a great match, but apart, both lose.

Back on Topic:
I think that Poser and Shade will make an excellent combination and I sympathize with the Poser 5 people wanting software that works (I have the same problem with Vue Pro), but without an injection of cash and a foundation, all is lost, so getting cash flow from a company that understands the 3D medium has to be a good thing. Sure, there is always the typical press releases, but in the end, I think it can only be a good thing. Heck, before Poser 6 wasn't even thought of and now it's a serious consideration. I would hope they would go the Vue/Poser connection route and allow for the software to remain independant (thus cheaper upgrades), but connect together via import/export hooks. And Shade is a pretty awesome program, just look at the work of HobbyHopper sometime.

ShadowWind
Sometimes too much the Disney fan, though I loved Shrek. :)

A modelling program (Shade??) in which you can model, texture, etc, and export directly to Poser (Poser 6???) without losing any information (like bones, joints, textures). Then animating the models in Poser, and exporting them into Vue for scenery and rendering without losing any information (like textures, etc). In my dream none of these programs crash, all the functions work, they all work with each other, and they are all affordable. A combination like that would rival any "high end" package for cost and usability. If each program concentrated on it's strong points, one a modeller, one a animation program, and one a scenery and render program, they would be better than if they each tried to be a little bit of everything. In my dream I am also good looking, rich, talented and I actually know how to use all these programs.

great dream :) Do you sleep a lot ??? Actually, Carrara/Amapi are somewhat like that...Amapi..great modeling, Carrara going for shaders/rendering/lighting...although sport a weird interface