I'm sure many of us out of laziness or time constraints refuse to add or complete objects that will be out of view in the finished render. But, what effect might these hidden or none-existant objects have on the final work.

Obviously, a work that features reflected objects must be complete enough to provide something to reflect, but is it not true that those same objects have an affect on the way light plays in the WHOLE scene regardless of the presence or absence of mirrors or other reflective items?

In other words, would you get a better render if ALL that makes up a scene exists within the scene, whether in the field of view or not?

Message edited on: 07/26/2004 19:20

Tell ya what Bryster.... You take the words right out of my mouth. I feel exactly the way you just described in words here. I, though I may be entirely wrong, am a firm believer in the effect of the unseen object(s)in a scene. I may be way off in my thinking, but I am glad to see someone else here shares my curiosity. Cheers Chris! ;) Wade

Yes and no. If you are working in a true radiosity environment then unseen objects can have a big influence. Otherwise not very much except in reflections and shadows as noted.

I tend to include everything for a number of reasons. (1) I feel incomplete otherwise (2) I might want to go back and change the camera angle or something

I find Incarnadine's comments very telling - it's that 'not very much' that I'm talking about. I'm thinking that this is where the difference is made.... Mahray makes an interesting point too....If I don't add everything the scene purports to contain I feel like I've cheated both myself and the viewer.

I'm not sure you should feel cheated or lazy. I'm sure Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's feet and then crop the image to fit in the frame. Saying that, I do often model a lot of stuff that has no impact on the final scene. But that's more because I don't know what POV I'm going to use until I render the final image. I say people should do what they feel comfortable with.

heck, I take the 'Hollywood Back Lot' approach..if it doesn't show, it isn't even modeled..;) but whatever floats yer boat..;)

The only time I include items out of view, is when there is a chance I may need to animate the scene for any reason. So the times I make art work for others ( for pay or for free ) I do a complete scene. Just encase they need or want an animation. I find it's a lot easier to build a whole scene from the begging, than it is to try and add to it weeks latter.

Drawbridge: Good point...'cept that Da Vinci didn't use Bryce (at least I don't think he did);-)

@TheBryster- I didn't mean to imply that the shadows and reflections were not that much, they can be flaming crucial! I always try to take that into account in my images. It was just that other than these three aspects I can't think of what could be affected by unseen items. No disrespect or dismissive intent was intended and I offer my apologies if any was perceived! @drawbridgep- Very often I put in a lot of things as I am not sure of the final POV myself.

I tend to leave out objects that are not in view. Usually I model the design on the cuff buttons of a character seen at the other end of the football field. My system chokes long before I have the luxury of adding unseen items. I do try to model in scale and avoid forced perspective. I also tend to let walls and objects run back past the camera. This is because a lot of times what I plan won't fit in the field of view or I wind up repositioning the camera to balance objects in the scene. If I do glass or metal with reflections I have to model objects because these objects will be visable in the reflections.

Myself, I like to build the whole environment and then reuse it from different angles.

Most of my scenes are built as a "facade" like a Hollywood backlot. Sometimes I don't even model the entire object if it won't show in the picture. Sometimes I do, though, like with my plastic Superman model. I just wanted to be able to see it from all angles, and have it look good. So it does tend to depend on the kind of render I intend to do.

Depends on the scene. If the scene has a shadow cast into it by an unseen object (because of lighting), definately add the unseen object. otherwise, hollywood style is very effective.

Incarnadine: No apology needed......;-)

I have found that since starting in C4D I tend to go a bit more past the movie set facade (especially if using radiosity) than I did in Bryce.