We've added a new policy for the AI Gallery.

"AI Generated gallery section, we are requiring the artist to share the prompt they used to generate an image."

Please include the prompts you use to create the images you make when you post them in the gallery. Thanks

Question: what happens when a prompt used has given an image as far from what was intended as chalk is from cheese? Because I've gotten quite a few humans and other things when the AI was told to produce nothing but cats and just yesterday had an empty apartment interior show up but not the requested people inside. To say nothing of a folder full of very beautiful nude ladies that were supposed to be gentlemen when I was testing a new model. If such "happy accidents" occur now, will they no longer be allowed in the gallery?

Also, there may be image-to-image used with a prompt, in which case the final results will be different if somebody else uses the same prompt but does not have the photograph that was also part of the process. 

In short, since prompts and images -- even without any post work -- don't always match, what's the point of this new policy? I'll comply with it of course, but I just don't understand.

Some, I guess, do not understand that the prompt is not the "whole" of the image.  Different apps of AI do different things with the same prompt.  And then you throw in filters that are in each version of the AI app and you get even more variance.  Different sizes of images make different things with the same prompt.  Other different options also make different things.  And like Byrdie said, if you use a template image it is a whole other thing.   

I don't really see the need to do this.  Can you please explain why?  Are other ways of making an image going to be required to do the same?  For example: a mixed meduim image....what mediums and how.  

For now, don't worry if it matches or the AI decided to something else. I'll talk to my boss about it.

Second question: Rendo TOS allows artistic nudes and other mature subjects. Currently I'm working on some pinup stuff using the AI program on my own computer. While the images that will  eventually get posted would be okay with proper nudity tags, etc. it's likely that the prompts involved may contain some very NSFW  words. Of the sort that are TOS no-nos. Taking them out would change the results, but since one now has to include the prompt, that presents a bit of a quandary.

Perhaps when posting I could note that the prompt contains NSFW language and ask anyone wanting full details to send a private message. Would that be okay? Really need to know how this will be handled before I add anything using AI to my gallery if humans and/or humanoids are depicted.

And what am I supposed to do with the folder of images I have already made, just waiting to post them?    (hours of time spent)   I don't save my prompts or the other info that went into the making of the image.  I didn't want all of my images to "look" the same so I start fresh each time.    This is very disheartening.  At least a head's up would have been nice.  Like a week or two before it goes into effect.  

As this is possible in Midjourney, just how would one include their prompt?

Agreed. Some services do not save prompts. Also, when upscaling (enlarging) any prompt info the image data contained may be changed or wiped altogether. I can go into my folder of SD generated images, right-click on one and open it with notepad, which will show me the prompt. But when I save a bigger/better version or a different format, say .jpg instead of .png this is no longer possible. Prompts often get lost that way and it's easy to forget. Heaven knows how much I've forgotten when making Daz & Poser renders that should have been mentioned in my production notes. Especially if it's been awhile between the creation and the posting thereof. So a little bit of time, say a week or two, before the new rule into effect would be greatly appreciated.

I'm asking someone to come look at this and answer your questions. Until then, if you can include the prompt, please do. If it's not available, make a note of that in the description. We aren't looking to start causing a bunch of new TOS issues. We're hoping to show those that don't use AI that there's more creativity and effort than just typing a couple of words and getting a great image.

when Renderosity can implement full disclosure and transparency across every single medium that is posted within the genpop gallery and forums..i will at that time go along with your "New Policy"....until that time ....its never ever going to happen.....

i'm not trying to explain everything...because outside of AI...or you don't use it, most will be meaningless....clearly whoever or whatever or whatever superior collective decided or suggested this little gem of wisdom has no clue or idea....

dose any of this mean anything....?

( just a  example ) --ar 2532:1170 --stop 80 --v 5 --s 999  --niji 5 --style expressive -- iw.3 --r 40 --q 5 

Blend, Style, Tile, Upligh , Upbeta, Niji, Test, Testp, Creative, Chaos, Seeds, Sameseed Parameter, Stylize, Image Weight Parameter, Remix, Multi Prompts, Permutation Prompts, expressive, ....to name a few....

Really am i going to do that, for ever image..... when no one else is required too...

Well,  trying to convince someone that hasn't used AI that there is more creativity and effort than just typing a couple of words to get a great image just isn't going to happen. They have been pretty vocal about what they think about AI and the posting of prompts isn't going to help that.   

I'm with Darkglass, let the artist of every image have to do the same.  

I always try to include as much detail as possible with my posts, no matter what program I make them in. Just good manners to help people asking "what is that awesome outfit/prop/hairstyle/background, etc. you used?" or "How did you get such-and-such an effect out of Daz/Poser/Photoshop/whatever?" So yeah, I can see what you're getting at with listing our prompts. Because it's not all just three words, one click and presto! instant masterpiece. It really does take a lot to keep it from running off the rails. Case in point:

Prompt used: cushion, deep purple, velvet, realistic, finely detailed, highly detailed, dramatic, action, photo, cinematic, soft lighting, high quality

Negative prompt used (for things you don't want in the image): out of frame, off center, background, humans, people, animals, man, male, female, woman

Resulting Stable Diffusion render: 

Obviously NOT the specifically requested purple cushion. Five out of six renders in the batch made with this prompt resulted in similar cute girls in fancy purple dress; the odd one out was an empty bedroom scene that had a couple of gold cushions and a purple bedspread. Nice, but not what I was aiming for. So much for the "Make Art" button they're calling this AI thing. I'd have an easier job herding cats. 

as a NON-AI user, i find this policy, if it can even be called that, a bit, um, ridiculous...

first, it is being posted into a forum.  not everyone visits the forums.

second, the gallery upload page, where such a silly notion should be put, is not there, again, making it impossible for those who do not visit forums to be aware of it, and thus, creating 'busy work' for your moderators, who will then need to, on an individual basis, put a 'hold' on an image and send sitemails to 'offending' users to explain the policy, etc... if such a policy is actually to be implemented, should it not be done in a way that informs all, ahead of time of impending changes, so that the individual can then freely make a decision as to whether they wish to comply, or not, ahead of actually posting.  instead, now you're setting things up to make AI users feel even more attacked over the medium they choose to pursue, and your mods to be out on the 'frontlines', so to speak, unnecessarily...

third, i really think that Rendo is asking for way too much honesty from its user base.  absolutely some will follow the 'policy', but considering that you have people who use AI and post their images under the guise of other types of applications, why in the world would one think that just because you ask for a prompt, you're going to get the ACTUAL prompt used?

sorry, but this is just stupid, even to someone who has a myriad of feelings surrounding AI & its use...

and i agree... if AI users need to truly give out their prompts, then 3D app users should be required to post a wireframe of their posted image [obviously prior to any postwork should any be involved]... dunno what you could require of photographers other than what already exists... 2D artists should disclose their tools, be it the type of pen/pencil, paper type and weight, the chroma colours users [if applicable], the colour number of the acrylic, and so forth...

this kind of policy truly needs to be made as something to fit all, and not just a sect of users, period.

and let us not forget those who post to the Mixed Medium gallery, or those who cobble together pieces of stock photos, etc... they should be required to list every asset used and the site, or sites, from which everything was gathered from... however, that's going to be tough, possibly, because what if something came from a competing market type website, and yanno, posting links to those is a no-no... shrug

Yeah? Um.. No. I'll just go back to only posting images at DeviantArt where there are no forums filled with small-minded hateful people looking to infringe on any new sort of creativity in the name of whatever copyright god they prey to. (Yeah, I know how Pray is spelled) I'll probably just delete my current gallery again. No  biggie.

it's like getting vendors to say which piece of intellectual property or celebrity  their 3D model was inspired by...

the objections to AI are more based on how easy it is to prompt something as opposed to modelling, UV mapping and texturing it but that argument holds no water when one is using premade content so the stolen training data angle is pushed.

Listing prompts won't change that.

Anymore than having to list all 3D assets would in a render.

Curating is the actual skill just like knowing what assets to arrange and how to set up the lighting 

i'm sure RedPhantom ....phone a friend option, wili help bail him out or pass the buck......looking forward to hearing something other than i'm asking someone to come look at this and answer your questions....really come on...did you think you was going to drop that....and no come back....?

Trying to stay subscribed to this thread but the "Notify me" ticky box keeps getting unchecked.

i'm sure RedPhantom ....phone a friend option, wili help bail him out or pass the buck......looking forward to hearing something other than i'm asking someone to come look at this and answer your questions....really come on...did you think you was going to drop that....and no come back....?

Well, seems no-one is adhering to it.  Either haven't seen it as not everyone checks the forum regularly, or a proveribial "up yours"

exactly...

though the policy for uploading things has been updated, and when you go to upload an image, you can clearly see the last update to the policy was a couple days ago, it is NOT being called out to the user directly...  i certainly don't bother going to read the policy every time it gets updated as historically it's dealt with nudity and profanity, both of which rarely make it into anything i post, so why bother, right?

well, guess i need to keep an eye out for that as a few things have indeed changed.  i just noticed that images that are held for review by Staff cannot be reposted by the user until a decision has been made.  i hope the policy has changed on the other end of things where Staff is notifying the user their image is being held so the user KNOWS what's going on and doesn't repost by mistake, thinking their image has simply disappeared somehow and are trying to rectify that.  i know that in the past, that has not been the case, to notify the user and communicate with them what is going on...

is it our responsibility to keep abreast of policy changes?  you bet; however, if this is a COMMUNITY, then COMMINUCATION is the key for so many things, at least from my perspective, and that requires more than a cute little notice tucked away in a forum, and an update link on the image upload page that, realistically, no one really notices anyway.

i mean, i'm betting that if you were to poll those that have posted AI stuff to the galleries and ask if they know/knew about the change, most would be left scratching their heads with a firm answer of "no"...

I just found a portrait by somebody who's seen it. Might try the prompt they posted and see if I get results as nice as theirs. Especially impressed with the glasses on their character; at least 8 times out of 10 when I try for a glasses-wearing character, SD turns it into a train wreck. And completely ignores me 9 times out of 10 when I tell it I don't want glasses on someone it "thinks" they belong on. 

We are reviewing everyone's concerns and will keep you informed.

I posted my images this morning from my previously created folder.  Since I had no prompt info for them, I did as requested by Red Phantom and put Prompt Not Available.  I would think it would take all of ten minutes to review our concerns and see that this was not a good idea.  

Good to see the management by Crisis style because of a random decision by TPTB is still in Full effect from when I was the Moderator of the Fractals Gallery and Forum, one of the reasons I quit after a couple years. The simple fact that no answers have been given proves the fact this Mandate was not thought out...and you really need someone familiar wit the process of using AI be on this Board, Just Sayin

Byrdie posted at 10:03 AM Wed, 10 May 2023 - #4464892

I just found a portrait by somebody who's seen it. Might try the prompt they posted and see if I get results as nice as theirs. Especially impressed with the glasses on their character; at least 8 times out of 10 when I try for a glasses-wearing character, SD turns it into a train wreck. And completely ignores me 9 times out of 10 when I tell it I don't want glasses on someone it "thinks" they belong on. 

See, here's the thing with this whole "Prompt" issue. Sites that I have mostly used allow you to write a prompt and then add a style. Well, they don't TELL you what the prompt of that style is in every case, so you're never going to know the full extent of your own prompts. There are inputs going on behind the scenes as well from their databases. It's just a ludicrous suggestion that we post our prompts. For what reason? To show our work? It's not possible.

while off topic, drawing glasses on your start image may help too if you are using one without, it probably need not be overly artistic

Thanks for the tips, sorry for thread derail. Guess we'll have to wait and see what The Management decides. Seems to me the show-your-work by posting prompt details whenever available rule might make sense if it was contest related, but AI is not permitted in contests because legal reasons. Hopefully they'll have it sorted by the time I have something I consider gallery suitable.

might i suggest that the "Gallery Policies" found here: Gallery Policies

be joined/connected with the general "Site Policies" found here: Site TOS

in some form or fashion.

it is a bit strange to have them segregated in the way they exist now, i think.  and were i a new user, if i read the general TOS that have policies regarding the gallery already within it, i may not think i need to read the policies again that exist on the Art Upload page, but i would be mistaken quite by accident to think that way it seems...

RedPhantom posted at 4:19 PM Tue, 9 May 2023 - #4464830

I'm asking someone to come look at this and answer your questions. Until then, if you can include the prompt, please do. If it's not available, make a note of that in the description. We aren't looking to start causing a bunch of new TOS issues. We're hoping to show those that don't use AI that there's more creativity and effort than just typing a couple of words and getting a great image.

I doubt that the 'those who don't use AI' who you're referring to will have their views changed in the slightest by the inclusion of prompts with AI uploads as it'll either confirm their belief that there's nothing to it (e.g. the very simple prompts I've used on my Wombo uploads) or be totally incomprehensible as DarkGlass has already pointed out. There's also the fact that you can get a great image by just typing a couple of words if (1) you hit Create enough times and (2) you also get lucky.

Perhaps a better approach would be to allow anybody who has a serious problem with AI to simply filter out any AI images - e.g. Gallery filters on nudity, profanity, violence tags - why not an AI tag ?

P.S. On a practical note: Who's going to verify that the uploader's given the actual prompt used ? And if you can't do that then what's the point ? 

And on another technical note, I don't know about others, but Midjourney has the option to upload a reference image, or even blend two or more images and include that in the prompt/final outcome.   Blending, though I don't use, has no prompt at all, just images.