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Carrara F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2026 Jun 30 12:55 pm)
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Subject: I can't PM or Email from DAZ
Well, I agree in social situations and the workplace. That's just common sense.I've worked with a few bosses that couldn't scrape up enough eggs to make a dozen between them. Completely understand that sort of thing.
My point is that DAZ isn't all that important in the grand scheme. And it's apparent that, at least for Stan and some others, the forums at DAZ might be considered a hostile environment.
I like Stan. He's a great guy. As far as I know no one really dislikes Stan. He puts his cards on the table and is a knowledgeable helpful soul. Wouldn't mind having him for a neighbor. :) DAZ just doesn't like that he calls them on stuff. Repeatedly. Whatever he does, DAZ is going to ban him again, because Stan is Stan (bless his heart) and the new DAZ is the new DAZ.
If the DAZ forums were the only game in town, of course, I'd recommend apologizing to get back in DAZ's good graces, but their not. The one thing I'd miss most would be the good people there in the Carrara forums, but even some of them have vanished, either no longer welcome or just moved on. Makes me sad.
Anyways, it really doesn't matter what I think. I'm just a little cog in the 3D wheel. :) I kinda like it that way.
Oh don't think I haven't thretened a few bosses. I'll play along for a while but eventually I am going to hit my boiling point.
There are a couple of mods on the ACR forum that would love to ban me simply because I will argue with them. But being persistent about unsolved issues isn't a bannable offence. Well, not on the ACR forum. 
Quote - Troublemaker. :)
Yeah Books, I know. LOL!
It just kept bothering me that one of our THREE biggest sales of the year has turned into such crap and no one seems to care.
I mean, am I out of step thinking we should be able to enjoy the sale like we used to? Everyone was always waiting around and looking for their favourite PA to go on sale. The forums were alive and it was a lot of fun seeing all the new products. You know, this is probably the first PA sale where Stonemason didn't get money from me and I have been in the PC since 2006.
In the old days, if something like this had happened, there would have been an outcry that would have shut down 3 or 4 threads and countless post deletions.
This time, I could only count a few deletions and one thread closed down.
Maybe more people have more money these days or maybe the deletions are happening in near "real-time"
Oh people care, they just can't say as much where it counts, or might make a difference.
It's not more people with more money, it's simply DAZ has trained their consumers well.
I read more then people probably give me credit. I spend a couple hours everyday reading the news online. I read a report on a new trend with marketing, the "up to" savings point. As in "save up to 50% off". People for some reason see the "50% off" but fail to tale note of the "up to". So they grab the item they want, check out, and never realize they didn't get it for 50% off, it may only have been 40% or even 30% off, because people don't do the math. Some on the other hand; like my mother, spot immedietly the the item didn't ring up at 50% off, that is when they are told that 50% off is just on certain items and not the one they are buying. Stores depend on people not doing the math.
Years ago it used to be "the customer is always right" now it's far more "buyer beware".
Quote - Dammit
My thread over at Daz just got buried. I started a thread to discuss the nature of the new PA sale.
One guy came in to say he got screwed over with Paypal and they told him he needed to file a ticket, but they deleted the posts critical of the sale.
Grrrrr
No, the posts on the PayPal issue were split to a new thread and your thread was then merged with the pre-existing thread on the sale in Members Only. No posts were deleted. Beyond correcting your error, this isn't the venue for discussing moderation actions at the DAZ 3D forums - you have our email.
Quote - Beyond correcting your error, this isn't the venue for discussing moderation actions at the DAZ 3D forums - you have our email.
You can push me around at the other place.
Not here.
Discussing moderation actions at the other place gets posts deleted.
I have emailed you lot on moderation actions and I get ignored.
Quote - > Quote - Troublemaker. :)
Yeah Books, I know. LOL!
It just kept bothering me that one of our THREE biggest sales of the year has turned into such crap and no one seems to care.
I mean, am I out of step thinking we should be able to enjoy the sale like we used to? Everyone was always waiting around and looking for their favourite PA to go on sale. The forums were alive and it was a lot of fun seeing all the new products. You know, this is probably the first PA sale where Stonemason didn't get money from me and I have been in the PC since 2006.
In the old days, if something like this had happened, there would have been an outcry that would have shut down 3 or 4 threads and countless post deletions.
This time, I could only count a few deletions and one thread closed down.
Maybe more people have more money these days or maybe the deletions are happening in near "real-time"
I definitely miss the 'old days'. I don't think you're out of step at all. We SHOULD be enjoying this sale, but the excitement, the fun just isn't there. I was a member of the PC from 2006 to 2012. I stopped it last year just after the PC sale. Didn't really need to wait as I didn't buy much of anything at all. All the once exciting, anticipated sales are just not worth bothering with there anymore.
Quote - > Quote - Beyond correcting your error, this isn't the venue for discussing moderation actions at the DAZ 3D forums - you have our email.
You can push me around at the other place.
Not here.
Discussing moderation actions at the other place gets posts deleted.
I have emailed you lot on moderation actions and I get ignored.
Apparently, DAZ's reach is long. sheesh!
Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Beyond correcting your error, this isn't the venue for discussing moderation actions at the DAZ 3D forums - you have our email.
You can push me around at the other place.
Not here.
Discussing moderation actions at the other place gets posts deleted.
I have emailed you lot on moderation actions and I get ignored.
Apparently, DAZ's reach is long. sheesh!
Yeah. LOL!
I came in this morning and saw the email to me an thought "WTF!?"
I come over HERE to get away from THAT!
No pushing around intended - you made a mistaken assertion (that your post was removed) and I corrected it. Even if we were willing to discuss specific actions in public rather than by email doing so at Renderosity would be an imposition on the site's hospitality so I don't think it appropriate for me to do so - I have, of course, no control over what you do.
I love playing video games. My favorite is racing, but the choices are slim. Only a couple of good ones out. Sort of a niche market I supose. Next is survial horror. I think I have most all of them for the PS1&2. But online picking are vary vary slim. Luckely there is dead fronteer, a garage game but a damn good one. Next is your frpgmmos. And having been a Tolkein fan since I read the books I eventually ended up at LOTRO. But before that I playied quite a few others.
Now one of the first things I do with a new game is check the forum. If I see a lot of peopel griping about the same issue I may never play. If I see people griping but not about a common problem, I'll give it a go. If I see no one griping about anything I figure the forum is very heavily modded, and leave imeaditely. I know there will be issues and if they are so major the mods remove any griping about them, I don't want to run afoul of them.
Ya feel me? 
Could some one tell Dartenback the a Carrara .5 update at $171 is no sort of "major bargen" considering I got the full upgrade from C7 to C8 for $120.
This somehting that is really starting to hack me off. DAZ cheerleaders desperatly trying to convince people that the .5 upgrade is worth $85 more then a full upgrade.Especially when all you are getting aside from some tweaks and bug fixes is genesis compatability. All they are paying for is the ability to spend more.
Are they still going to be singing that tune when they see the C8 to C9 upgrade pushing $600 {which is 3X the C7 to C8 upgrade}or more; and from the look of it far more.
And considering the way DAZ has greiviously over priced C8.5 update, do you have any doubt C9 wont be well over $500? And considering how much under that posted price of the C8.5 update I was; in my worst case senario, don't be surpised if the C9 upgrade pushes a grand. No joke.
At this point it would not surprise me in the least if the C9 upgrade comes in at $800-1000. But DAZ will of coarse thow up it's sales smoke and mirrors "Don't look at the actually price of $800 over here, look at this super special limtied time discount that brings the cost to you down to $280.
And of coarse all the DAZ cheerleads will jump around and sing their praises to the great giver of content DAZ. DAZ the all powerful, DAZ the all might, DAZ perfection incarnate. 
A house built on delusion crumbs when hit by reality.
I still reading the DAZ forum. My responce to this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28263/P60 is "welcome to DAZ, you paid for this, enjoy". If the forums weren't so heavily censored people would know this is SOP for DAZ and has only gotten worse over the last couple of years.
A week long wait for sales and service to fix a major error in billing would promp me to get a full refund.
Quote - Now one of the first things I do with a new game is check the forum. If I see a lot of peopel griping about the same issue I may never play. If I see people griping but not about a common problem, I'll give it a go. If I see no one griping about anything I figure the forum is very heavily modded, and leave imeaditely. I know there will be issues and if they are so major the mods remove any griping about them, I don't want to run afoul of them.
Ya feel me?
Use the same sort of system when reading customer reviews of products.
And by the way, I get what you're saying. :)
Quote - Could some one tell Dartenback the a Carrara .5 update at $171 is no sort of "major bargen" considering I got the full upgrade from C7 to C8 for $120.
This somehting that is really starting to hack me off. DAZ cheerleaders desperatly trying to convince people that the .5 upgrade is worth $85 more then a full upgrade.Especially when all you are getting aside from some tweaks and bug fixes is genesis compatability. All they are paying for is the ability to spend more.
Are they still going to be singing that tune when they see the C8 to C9 upgrade pushing $600 {which is 3X the C7 to C8 upgrade}or more; and from the look of it far more.
And considering the way DAZ has greiviously over priced C8.5 update, do you have any doubt C9 wont be well over $500? And considering how much under that posted price of the C8.5 update I was; in my worst case senario, don't be surpised if the C9 upgrade pushes a grand. No joke.
At this point it would not surprise me in the least if the C9 upgrade comes in at $800-1000. But DAZ will of coarse thow up it's sales smoke and mirrors "Don't look at the actually price of $800 over here, look at this super special limtied time discount that brings the cost to you down to $280.
And of coarse all the DAZ cheerleads will jump around and sing their praises to the great giver of content DAZ. DAZ the all powerful, DAZ the all might, DAZ perfection incarnate.
A house built on delusion crumbs when hit by reality.
I still reading the DAZ forum. My responce to this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28263/P60 is "welcome to DAZ, you paid for this, enjoy". If the forums weren't so heavily censored people would know this is SOP for DAZ and has only gotten worse over the last couple of years.
A week long wait for sales and service to fix a major error in billing would promp me to get a full refund.
Agree, current price for this .5 update is NOT, in my opinion, a reasonable price. Sure, you can get it for 85 something bucks, but that's after you pay 25 for the privilege. And I also am not overly optimistic about a 'reasonable' price being charged for 9. I'm not too optimistic that there will even be a version 9. Especially on the timetable that DAZ has set.
Went and read that thread. Wow! This is one 'suck egg' weekend for those new purchasers of C 8.5. I'm surprised some of those posts are still there to be read.
Quote - OK, I've never said this before. Never been prompted to ask it. But I am rapidly coming to the conclusion chohole needs to be dropped as a mod.
Ok, I'm not one for posting over here, I just read, but I'm not going to sit by and watch while you purposely try to undermine the moderators of a site that has nothing to do with this one, especially when said moderator does a great job.
Frankly, Stan, if you were on any kind of watch-list then it's probably because you do little more than whine over at the Daz site and I see you've carried on that tradition over here.
Neither forum need trolls and you are one of the reasons I don't visit the Carrara section of the Daz forum. Don't ruin this one too please.
Is your problem with Chohole borne from her willingness to do her job rather than let the trolls ruin the forum?
Regards,
Barry.
Quote - Now one of the first things I do with a new game is check the forum. If I see a lot of peopel griping about the same issue I may never play. If I see people griping but not about a common problem, I'll give it a go. If I see no one griping about anything I figure the forum is very heavily modded, and leave imeaditely. I know there will be issues and if they are so major the mods remove any griping about them, I don't want to run afoul of them. Ya feel me?
I'm not an online gamer, but I do feel ya.
Whenever I see too many people cheering and no people griping, I know to put my money back in my wallet and run away quickly. If I don't see at least a tiny bit of variety in responses, I know there's problems.
Quote - This somehting that is really starting to hack me off. DAZ cheerleaders desperatly trying to convince people that the .5 upgrade is worth $85 more then a full upgrade.Especially when all you are getting aside from some tweaks and bug fixes is genesis compatability. All they are paying for is the ability to spend more. And of coarse all the DAZ cheerleads will jump around and sing their praises to the great giver of content DAZ. DAZ the all powerful, DAZ the all might, DAZ perfection incarnate.
A house built on delusion crumbs when hit by reality.
You know, Stan. People keep saying it's the negative people are running people away from buying Carrara. I say it's all the cheerleaders that are running them away.
Hey, I LOVE Carrara. I LOVE a lot of Daz content. But when the cheering gets to be tooo much it starts to sound fake. It becomes harder and harder to trust what's being said.
"The price of the upgrade is perfect", "Daz is the bestest", "I paid $3K for 3DS Max, so shut up about $85" and on and on.
You would think after going the better part of a week and not having a serial number would open a few eyes, but I just came from over there and the cheer leaders are still cheering.
No kidding. If I woke up prepared to do some great work in my software of choice and sat down to discover that my serial is no longer valid after only a week, I'd be a bit peeved.
Yeah, I know DAZ will fix it as soon as they get around to it on Tuesday, but sheesh, what a way to start your day.
I think Carrara is great. Use it all the time. But cheerleaders, not so much.
Never did like cheerleaders. Too loud, too obnoxious, too everything and definitely over the top. Does grate on your nerves after a while. I like some of those cheerleaders over at the DAZ Carrara forum, but I find myself skipping over the majority of what they post because it all gets a bit monotonous after a while.
Oh, and Stan, I've been reading your posts for years, and I've never once considered you a troll. That JM fellow is a troll and no one seems to mind him stirring the pot. You, my friend, are a prince among men. A bit rough around the edges, but a prince. :)
Quote - No kidding. If I woke up prepared to do some great work in my software of choice and sat down to discover that my serial is no longer valid after only a week, I'd be a bit peeved.
Yeah, I know DAZ will fix it as soon as they get around to it on Tuesday, but sheesh, what a way to start your day.
...
They got someone in and re-issued the serial numbers. There should be an updated one in your serial number list.
My new SN works.
ncamp
I almost posted impulsively yesterday on this thread, but decided I would give it a night's sleep to cool off and make sure I wasn't just spouting off in knee jerk reaction.
It's more than 24 hours now, I've cooled down, but I do still think something needs to be said.
Quote - No pushing around intended - you made a mistaken assertion (that your post was removed) and I corrected it. Even if we were willing to discuss specific actions in public rather than by email doing so at Renderosity would be an imposition on the site's hospitality so I don't think it appropriate for me to do so - I have, of course, no control over what you do.
Well, if all you had done was corrected a mistaken assertion, then that would be one thing. But you also added:
Quote - Beyond correcting your error, this isn't the venue for discussing moderation actions at the DAZ 3D forums - you have our email.
I'm sorry, but the title of this thread is "I can't PM or Email from DAZ", and the reason is that Manley stated he's been banned due to moderation actions at DAZ. This whole thread is about moderation at DAZ.
And yeah, whether you intended to or not, it came across as though a DAZ mod was high-handedly trying to push people around, both vaguely menacing and authoritarian, as if you had final say over what kinds of conversations are appropriate here. These are the Rendo forums, not the DAZ forums.
It would be as if someone showed up at my front door to confiscate my firearms because of the laws in New York, and I had to politely point out that "This is Utah, not New York. Where is the mentally capable adult who normally cares for you, and do they realize you've wandered off?"
It really bothers me that this happened. A mod should behave better, and this really lends credence to the assertions some have made that the daz forums are badly (and irrationally) moderated.
I don't believe Manley should have been banned. I don't believe Holly should ever have been blocked. Just using the two of them as an example, but neither of them is a troll, both of them have helped others and served as valuable members of the Carrara community, freely giving of their time and talents, and I have no doubt that their efforts have won DAZ many customers, people who have actually purchased Carrara simply because of the answers they received in the forums.
On the other hand, there actually is a troll that pops up from time to time in the Carrara forums, does his best to insult nearly everyone, claims he is 'just being honest' and that he 'doesn't care what others think', and that people who disagree or question him are 'too sensitive', 'unprofessional' etc - then immediately takes offense at any interaction (because of his incredibly fragile ego) and blows up, twisting peoples words and treating pretty much everyone nastily. I've watched this guy pop in and out of the Carrara forum over the years, and it's a fact that his tirades and blowups have chased off several of the best and most invaluable Carrara forum regular contributors, yet as far as I can tell the mods have never taken any action.
On other forums if a thread is moved the title stays in the forum it was in, but links to the thread where it was moved.
How do you expect peopel to react when they go to read their thread and it is gone, with no notification it had been moved?
Persoanlly I like Richard, and wont fault him for trying to defend, or explain actions taken on the forum; whether I agree with the action or not.
But yes, on the DAZ forum you stand a better chance of getting banned for pointing out DAZ's screw ups, or questionable busness practices, then going at fellow forum members.
Which is worse, the person that plants the seed of dicontent, or the person that drives off valuable forum memebers?
Personally I would rather know of possable issues then blindly walk in to them.
evilproducer so far all my C8.5 scenes without Genesis have opened fine. No texture issues.
Nope no need of me on the DAZ forum
And it's quite apparent they need JM on there more then, well, anyone he has driven away, including 3DAGE. Ain't that nice. 
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28339/
Just me being me. Sure C9 will be ready, if you don't mind paying the $1K upgrade cost.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28214/
In an hours time I can download and install a dozen pieces. So why ever would I waste an hour fighting to get DIM to work?
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28337/
It's the mipmapping causing that, the further from the camera the figure gets the lower the texture resolution.
Unless carrara's mipmapping is diferent then game mipmapping; that subs lower rez thextures the further from the camera they are. Lord knows I have made enough of them
Nope, no need of me on the DAZ carrara forum at all.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28356/
Scotsman go for a refund before DAZ jerks you around long enough you can't get one. That will get their attention faster then a forum post.
Of coarse that leads to the question why some one would see the price is wrong and buy it anyway. If the price had been right for me the day I checked I might have gotten it at $50; I'd have still gripped that $149 is in no way a "nominal fee".
Due to DAZ's pricing screw ups I was of the opinion it was $285 across the board for everyone. So yes, the pricing screw cost DAZ my sale. And I am quite sure I am not the only one.
Quote - I almost posted impulsively yesterday on this thread, but decided I would give it a night's sleep to cool off and make sure I wasn't just spouting off in knee jerk reaction.
It's more than 24 hours now, I've cooled down, but I do still think something needs to be said.
Quote - No pushing around intended - you made a mistaken assertion (that your post was removed) and I corrected it. Even if we were willing to discuss specific actions in public rather than by email doing so at Renderosity would be an imposition on the site's hospitality so I don't think it appropriate for me to do so - I have, of course, no control over what you do.
Well, if all you had done was corrected a mistaken assertion, then that would be one thing. But you also added:
Quote - Beyond correcting your error, this isn't the venue for discussing moderation actions at the DAZ 3D forums - you have our email.
I'm sorry, but the title of this thread is "I can't PM or Email from DAZ", and the reason is that Manley stated he's been banned due to moderation actions at DAZ. This whole thread is about moderation at DAZ.
And yeah, whether you intended to or not, it came across as though a DAZ mod was high-handedly trying to push people around, both vaguely menacing and authoritarian, as if you had final say over what kinds of conversations are appropriate here. These are the Rendo forums, not the DAZ forums.
It would be as if someone showed up at my front door to confiscate my firearms because of the laws in New York, and I had to politely point out that "This is Utah, not New York. Where is the mentally capable adult who normally cares for you, and do they realize you've wandered off?"
It really bothers me that this happened. A mod should behave better, and this really lends credence to the assertions some have made that the daz forums are badly (and irrationally) moderated.
I don't believe Manley should have been banned. I don't believe Holly should ever have been blocked. Just using the two of them as an example, but neither of them is a troll, both of them have helped others and served as valuable members of the Carrara community, freely giving of their time and talents, and I have no doubt that their efforts have won DAZ many customers, people who have actually purchased Carrara simply because of the answers they received in the forums.
On the other hand, there actually is a troll that pops up from time to time in the Carrara forums, does his best to insult nearly everyone, claims he is 'just being honest' and that he 'doesn't care what others think', and that people who disagree or question him are 'too sensitive', 'unprofessional' etc - then immediately takes offense at any interaction (because of his incredibly fragile ego) and blows up, twisting peoples words and treating pretty much everyone nastily. I've watched this guy pop in and out of the Carrara forum over the years, and it's a fact that his tirades and blowups have chased off several of the best and most invaluable Carrara forum regular contributors, yet as far as I can tell the mods have never taken any action.
Direct and to the point. Well said and right on target.
Quote - http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28339/
Just me being me. Sure C9 will be ready, if you don't mind paying the $1K upgrade cost.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/28214/
In an hours time I can download and install a dozen pieces. So why ever would I waste an hour fighting to get DIM to work?
Definitely not paying 1K for Carrara.
And DIM...no thanks.
Quote - Scotsman go for a refund before DAZ jerks you around long enough you can't get one. That will get their attention faster then a forum post.
Of coarse that leads to the question why some one would see the price is wrong and buy it anyway. If the price had been right for me the day I checked I might have gotten it at $50; I'd have still gripped that $149 is in no way a "nominal fee".
Due to DAZ's pricing screw ups I was of the opinion it was $285 across the board for everyone. So yes, the pricing screw cost DAZ my sale. And I am quite sure I am not the only one.
That $285 sent me running the other way as well. Not what I'd call a nominal fee on any planet.
Quote - Wait, did people with C8.1 not know they should have only been charged $49.95 if they were in the Pclub? That is what mine says today, if it had said that the second day of the sale when I checked it, I might have gotten it. And I certainly wouldn't have made such a fool of myself.
The new game at DAZ...musical prices. When the music stops, you pounce on the price of their choice. Or 'Let's Make a DAZ Deal'. Do you take the price as marked or will you take the price behind the curtain?
Quote - > Quote - Wait, did people with C8.1 not know they should have only been charged $49.95 if they were in the Pclub? That is what mine says today, if it had said that the second day of the sale when I checked it, I might have gotten it. And I certainly wouldn't have made such a fool of myself.
The new game at DAZ...musical prices. When the music stops, you pounce on the price of their choice. Or 'Let's Make a DAZ Deal'. Do you take the price as marked or will you take the price behind the curtain?
Would some one plaese tell DAZ_jared he has the wrong screen cap up. That is what I saw last tuesday, not what I am seeing today. That screen cap is for the purchas of C8.5 not for the upgrade to C8.5.
I swear it's like the babysitter has left the house
that is $5 less then this morning 
Should be 8.5 pro as that is what I have, I mean 8.1 pro.
Don't know whom is more confused by the pricing me, DAZ, or everyone else.
But that is really the plan isn't it. Get everyone so confused they really have no clue what the price is, or is suposed to be.
So just what the freaking sam hill is the actual price for the C8.5 update. What I am seeing for pro is the purches price of C8.5, not the update price. Or do they expect me to buy carrara all over again. All I want is an update price for C8.5 pro but I have yet to find it.
Screw this, time to call the BBB on DAZ because I am sick to death of this purposful confusion that DAZ is causing.
Quote - Oh, and Stan, I've been reading your posts for years, and I've never once considered you a troll. That JM fellow is a troll and no one seems to mind him stirring the pot. You, my friend, are a prince among men. A bit rough around the edges, but a prince. :)
Agree.
While I don't agree with everything that Stan says, I have never wanted to leave a thread because he was on it. JM has attacked me and MY post got pulled when I spoke back. I don't know how many people that particular individual has gone after, but if anybody deserved a "time out"...
Quote - Don't know whom is more confused by the pricing me, DAZ, or everyone else. But that is really the plan isn't it. Get everyone so confused they really have no clue what the price is, or is suposed to be.
Stan, you remember the March Madness sale?
No one knew the price of ANYthing. One person would think something cost one price, then three other people would chime in with three different prices and finally a mod would pop in with yet another price.
I thought that was the most annoying sale, until now, that is.
How does this confusion help Daz or anyone else?
Ha ha, I read his 'second ' ? book , was great for the first few chapters.In it the king says, about an unsatisfactory General, to paraphrase:
"Throw that man away!"
For JM, yes I have seen him moderated. He and I have had whole chapters moderated during our 'conversations". The moderations were thoroughly deserved too. :)
To be fair to Daz this is in their TOS We reserve the right to remove any post we feel is in violation of these rules as well as any post we feel is not of specific interest to our core membership. Please note that as a private entity the DAZ 3D forums do not give a promise of freedom of speech.
How does confusion help DAZ? How many people had the wrong price in their check out, yet paid anyway? How many have filed a ticket for difference? How many are going to get it? How many never realized they were over charged? These pricing issues seem to be SOP for DAZ lately. If it was costing them money it would most assuredly have been fixed.
It's back to the "up to" discount, if you don't do the math how do you know if you got the full discount?
If you'd like a good laugh I was telling a fiend of mine about the goings on in carrara land. I described dartenback as a highschool cheerleader on meth
No insult intended.
I described JM as that snot nosed little kid going around causing trouble for everyone, and getting away with it.
Where as I was the kid putting up the posters letting every know what the principle was up to, so got suspended.
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Books,
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Stan was in the wrong (well, it is now a fact that in this case he was 100% right), but sometimes in order to stay in good standing you have to kowtow.
One of my bosses is more often wrong than right, but in order to keep out of trouble I have to agree with clearly stupid things. Things that are wrong and will simply not work.
Stan was right, but they banned him. Maybe an apology might get him back (even when they should be apologising to him).