Thanks phantom3D and svdl. I'll try the dummy bone method.

While we're talking about rigging problems: I find myself unable to transfer the joint zone settings for fingers from the right hand to the left hand using the symmetry tool. All the other joint settings get mirrored perfectly, just not the hands. Hand poses get mirrored fine, too. Everything's fine for other figures, so apparently my cr2 got corrupted somehow.

Any ideas on how I might avoid the tedious cut, paste and edit? Is there a 'repair tool' for broken Poser files?

Cheers!

I have the same problem from time to time, and what I found is to click on a left side body part and then transfer symetry from right to left.  It also helps sometimes if you have also posed the right fingers befor you transfer symetry.  I dont know of a cr2 fixer.  Also make sure your IK is off.

I started rigging Jane in Poser.  Index1,  Mid1,  Ring1,  Pinky1 on both hands will not scale down when I change the figure height.  Any ideas as to why.  Because I don't have a clue.

I have not run in to that, but I'm sure you checked the parenting? that's all I can think of. Do you mean they stay where they are or they don't get smaller?

Parenting.  Makes sense.  I'll check it and see.  Thanks.

Yep!  You're right.  I had 'em parented to the forearm.  Can I correct it in the heirarchy editor?

Yes, just move it into the right place.

Cool!  Thanks!

Hey Pat...... Jane looks awesome up close and personal.  You have mail, Sir. grin

Cool!  Glad ya like her.  How's the texturing coming along?  I hope Jane isn't giving you any trouble.

None at all, so far. Loving the one template for all bit.

Excellent!  Could you post a render when you're done?  BTW  Thank you for the help.  You're a great artist,  good friend and partner.  God only knows where I'd be without ya.  We have another partner,  though, she's a very talented modeler and she'll be doing the morphs.

**I'll be happy to post a render when I get something done. Hopefully, I can accomplish that much in the time I have left here. Might only be the head and eyes at first. Elbows and ankles tend to give me fits. grin But heads and eyes I have down pat. LOL

Cool on the extra partner with the morphs.
**

LOL!  Yep them modelers and their boney elbows.  As for our other partner,  you'll like her,  she's tops in my book.

**And ankles. Don't forget them ankles. Darn things can't look the same on the inside as they do on the outside. But I better go see about getting those eyes done if you want a render before we're down to using those smoke signals.

She is tops. I already like her.
**

LOL!  I thought i'd make it easier for her to shave.

Ah, that's the beauty of being a 3D model. No having to shave anything. grin

LMAO! 

Where is RorrKon? Are you still at it?

What happened to the figures that were being made?

Which ones?

There were six of them, Yours plain Jane, An elf by paloth, RorrKon had a couple I think one female and a male. odf had a female and phantom3D had two, so I guess that's seven.

Can't wait! So tired of what I have.

I'm working on the rigging for my Antonia. A little slower than patorak, of course, because I'm a mere human and new to all this. Also, I guess I'm a bit lazy when it comes to posting status reports. There are some fairly recent renders of her in my gallery.

Everything except for three fingers is set up. When those are done, I'll have to go back into Wings and fix some small details on the mesh topology and the grouping, then do some more joint zone adjustments. She also needs such small things as lashes, teeth, a tongue and proper eyes.

Her shoulders, elbows, hips and knees don't bend as nicely as I'd like to. No worse than most Poser figures do without JCMs  and such, but I'd like to do better. So when I'm reasonably happy with her initial, "conventional" rigging, I will look into some alternative rigging options people have been using, such as splitting the shoulder into shoulder and upper arm, introducing a dummy hip bone, etc.

Then I'll UV map her and see if anyone volunteers to contribute textures, morphs and such for the free version. Because I can't be bothered to turn her into a finished product - I have a day job, after all - I'm planning to give the base figure away for free and hope that lots of people jump on board and start to create - and possibly sell - additional content.

"Can't wait! So tired of what I have."

Should try morphing what you have. It's a good way to start learning modeling apps and gives new life to what you already have.

I would say that is how I started but I would be lying. I actually started modeling using primatives and magnets in this image. www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=292512  The easle was my first prop. Simple and basic but that gave me the bug. I started to create morphs with wings3D and then clothes and now I do most of my own stuff. I am taking the time to learn Modo the right way and not just jumping around with this and that tool in hopes I come across the right way to do something, Modo is to big to do that with.

I am very happy to see some more figures. i dont make anything i just buy stuff.

Stepson : Oh ya, I am still at it, This is some of the most fun I have ever had 3Ding :)

This thread is wicked kool.

Normally I would not post such a ruff WIP.

But here it is no where close to the finale version.

I am just experimenting trying to figure out what AtomicHells face should look like.

http://64.234.196.28/RK_Atomic_Hell_WIP_001.jpg

ODF : if your day job is not a 3D job it's a waste of talent.

Anyone as talented as you alt to be 3Ding for a living.

For now I am making 3 Characters

Human female named Diamond.

Human male named Chrome.

Monster named AtomicHell.

When there finished I might take a job here or there but for the most part I am just going to make Poser / DS content.

Hope Phanton3D is making progress on the hardware / software front.

Patorak / Unicornst : You have us setting on the edge of our seats :)

Tashar59: Ha! That's precisely how I started with Antonia. I tried to morph Vickie 3 in ZBrush and it was a pain because of the way her mesh is structured. Also, high-res is fine for details, but for basic shape you want a low-res version of the same mesh. Then I looked at other meshes and didn't like them any better. So I decided to roll my own and make the topology exactly the way I want it.

RorrKonn: Hey, you don't even know what my day job is. For all you know, I could be Bill Gates.

Quote - That's precisely how I started with Antonia. I tried to morph Vickie 3 in ZBrush and it was a pain because of the way her mesh is structured. Also, high-res is fine for details, but for basic shape you want a low-res version of the same mesh.

You should give V4 a try... Unlike V3, her topo is actually pretty good and closely follows classic edge looping theory. The high rez thing is a pain of course, but ZBrush 3 does handle it pretty well. Even better, now that PPro does normal maps and reads 32 bit displacement maps, you can combine morphing with them for some very cool results.

Quote -

RorrKonn: Hey, you don't even know what my day job is. For all you know, I could be Bill Gates.

All I am saying is your good enough to be a pro 3D Artist, If you want to be.

Quote -
All I am saying is your good enough to be a pro 3D Artist, If you want to be.

Thanks!

Maybe if I were twenty years younger, I would consider it.

Quote -
You should give V4 a try... Unlike V3, her topo is actually pretty good and closely follows classic edge looping theory.

Yes, from what I've seen, she definitely looks better, mesh-wise. You have to remember I started Antonia back in 2005 when V3 was considered state of the art in female Poser figures.

@RorrKonn:  Wow that guy looks awsome it must be a blast to be able to make stuff like that.
@odf:  You too she looks soo smooth and lifelike!

i am having a good time just watching and following along.  I usually dont come to the forums but a pal told me about this. 

Have you rigged your figure in Modo?

Modo doesn't have rigging. Fortunately I own Lightwave, which does, but I've yet to rig my figure there. I rigged a version of my Nargron in Lightwave several years ago.

That sometimes happens when changing rotation order. The method I found tochange the rotation order and not have this problem is to change it in the setup room.

And you're right about trying various joint settings, nothing from another figure will work for your figure, you have to find your own, which is why I have said all along it takes trial and error over and over and over.  I have over 20 gigs of saved files of all my trial and error experiments covering almost two years of experimentation. I use the same method experiment, experiment, experiment there is no other way..

Quote - Patorak / Unicornst : You have us setting on the edge of our seats :)

If things turn out well enough on the first draft of her eyes and face, I'll post a test render in a little while. 

The method I found to change the rotation order and not have this problem is to change it in the setup room. Thanks for the tip. I'll do that from now on. Meshes are high explosives in Poser.

As far as I'm concerned the rigging of any of the current figures out there is useless, all wrong. None of them have the hip joint in the correct place, unuseable even for reference, except as how not to do it.

And there is no need to do anything except pose them to see that, if they were right they would pose like a human body and they certainly do not. Simply by posing a figure you can easily tell exactly where they have their joints no secret there.

The T formation for a starting point on your shoulder bends is much better by the way, Any time you can start from a point that is half way in between the full range of motion it's much better to do so. You can easily change that by posing your figure in the T and exporting your mesh in that form.

I wonder if a hip part, an abdomen part, two waist parts and the chest will be enough for proper bending?

Quote - I wonder if a hip part, an abdomen part, two waist parts and the chest will be enough for proper bending?

You can do it with more or even less, it just depends on where you place your joint the settings and the size and shape of your part. Also the range of motion you wish to acheive. I am actually using one less part in the waist -abdomen than you have mentioned. You will have to set limits too especially for the waist and abdomen areas, since they can only bend so far befor you get severe creases and mesh breakage.

*I wonder if a hip part, an abdomen part, two waist parts and the chest will be enough for proper bending?

I'd say so.  Also don't be intimidated by accusations of reverse engineering.  I can show you all similiar rigs that have been in use for a lot longer.

Awesome!  I've never seen any Poser figures bend like that without breaking the mesh.

The ones in blue are the old model without much edge looping and the one in the brown is the edge looped model with the newer additions to the hip (just some body handles.)

That looks great Phantom, would a body handle fix that bulge of the arm directly below the pit? That is always shows in all figures. Yours looks better than what I have seen but it's still there. Or is that something that soft body dynamics is going to be needed to fix in figures.