there's a secret war on raccoons here.  when they trap a raccoon cuz it's in someone's shed or under the deck, the trappers don't relocate and release them, they have to euthanize them, haven't learned how they do it.  i fear the worst since they go into mulch.

We had a similar shady incident here in Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War

they gave him/her a last ciggie?

Pumeco, 

I use a pre Intel apple power mac that's not connected to the internet (she's a little slow but hasn't given me any problems going on 10 years now), hell when that one gives up the ghost and I finally join the windows throng, I'll buy another (their very inexpensive now) as a non connected backup workstation. Very reliable, and able to run a lot of "extinct" software.

Also on the topic of that retro film distributor, Shameless. I've seen most of the films in their catalogue over the years, mostly back in the early days of cable and VHS... In particular I liked a lot of the Italian erotica from the late seventies into the eighties, the films of Tinto Brass, anything with Demetra Hampton (Valentina, etc). Also into the Italian genre known as Giallo 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giallo

So... Yeah, familiar with most of the films they're keeping in distribution. But I'm kinda an Indy and cult film buff in general... here's Demetra, who I thought was a total babe when I was in my teens. A lot of my friends would have Pamela Anderson posters on their walls, I was always into scream queens and obscure B movie hotties like Demetra or Brit actress Caroline Munro.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentina_(comics)

On a different note... you do realize how hilarious it is to be lectured to by a teenager about the hard facts of life, right Pumeco? 

Interersting document I've been reading, it's 300+ pages of official 'American Planning' at it's finest, one that was leaked, have you seen it?

Things like that, leaked, no.  Fabricated, yes.  Unfortunately, there are fools that read that bullshit and believe anything they read.  Then there are those like Glenn Beck and Alex Jones that take what they want out and it becomes "Irrefutable proof", but only if the IQ is low enough.  Their listeners are also stupid enough to send those turkeys twenty bucks a month to hear their bullshit.  It's that kind of bullshit that put us in Iraq, thank you very much GWeeB. As far as the "rat race", I haven't worked in nineteen years.  I don't have a mortgage to worry about.  I don't worry about the utilities, I just pay them.  One person living in my house, and I answer to myself.  No facebook or any other shit account.  Credit card debt, about $40, until the bill comes in then I just pay it to $0.  Property taxes came in December, paid them in full.  No cell phone, no need for one and less desire.  If I don't answer my home phone, it's because I don't recognize the number.  Last year I wrote a check for a vehicle, used, yes, but not terribly old or run out.  I could do the same now, were I to decide three isn't enough, which I won't. 

October 2013 I had a triple bypass, total cost out of pocket, $10.  Gross income isn't $30K.  Now tell me what I'm doing wrong or don't know that you "do".

Doric

Still don't get the whole 'hate facebook' thing, just seems pretentious, it's another communication tool. I find it useful and conducive to conversations with aquaintances that otherwise would be punctuated by uncomfortable silences if they were done on the phone. It's free...

Oh, and it's gotten me laid, too.

@DMD
I'm here to amuse (if only you knew how hilarious this thread has been for me as well) :-P

But no, I don't know how hilarious I sound to you because:
A - I've never taken lectures from teenagers or any other age group, I teach myself anything I need to know whenever it comes to things of vital importance.
B - I'm not a teenager, I'm over 30 years old, but how much over is anyones guess - you make me feel so young :-D

Wait ... I think that's a song ... but anyway ...

Regards Shameless-Films; I sort of knew you'd be aware of the films themselves, but wasn't sure if you knew of the label with them being UK based.  But occasionally, keeping an eye on that site throws-up a film or two that you might not otherwise have known about, so it's worth bookmarking.  Getting OT here, but yes, I have a few of Brass' films as well, and Passolini's, like this one, Salo.  Fair enough, this happened in Europe, but having sat through this lovely Blu-ray a few times, I suddenly have the itch to visit the good old USA and see if they'll give me a job grading the women after they've been captured and brought in for a body inspection.  I'd say this film is very apt in light of the FEMA 'spiracies.

Oh those pretty slave girls in their white panties, trying to escape, I wonder if FEMA camps are like that, but with a FEMA logo on the back?

Come to think of it, I think American women should relocate to Europe before it's too late, cause at least our camps are set in luxurious mansions, and I'm guessing that's much more classy then a FEMA camp.  You won't like the food they serve here (really, trust me on that), and the method of termination is quite gruesome, but you have to admit, there's a much better chance of your death becoming famous through history books and documentaries, if you die this way.

Food for thought:  The girls on which this film is based could never have believed what would happen to them either, but it did :

Hmmm. Why did you go on with the charade of being a teenager, then? Have to admit that I was a little perplexed...

Me, personally, I'm out of work temporarily at the moment so I got some extra time on my hands to make a fool out of myself online to complete strangers. Amusing? Dunno. Trying to complete a way over elaborate render right now and it keeps crashing poser. I've narrowed down the problem but I still have to do the whole thing as a series of area renders which I'll have to stitch together in post. PITA. Love making models and textures and such but rendering leaves me cold, just want to get this series of documentary renders complete so I can get back to noodling in Wings3d and Photoshop.

Sigh, guess I'll have to rouse myself from my fantasy worlds in a bit and go back to the "Rat Race". My pride and world view forbids me from living on hand outs, even if well intentioned... Never was into the whole sycophantic existence thing and unlike many of my aquaintances I wasn't born into privilege.

Ever read the Marquis? Icky, but I felt it was my cerebral duty to suffer through Justine...

Oh, and the only discussions in this thread which are OT have to do with conspiracy, fashionable America bashing, and governmental politics... the thread concerns transgressive imagery in an art context.

And Pumeco, you might want to tone down the misogynistic hate speech a little, just makes you look like an unlaid bitter dork or perhaps a blabber mouthed narcissistic serial killer wannabe. Just saying. (no emoticon)

@ DMD

Get a job.

@Doric
Yeah, I'm glad you're not a muppet, you don't have to point it out, but I don't understand the animosity in your reply.
I also suspect that your humour chip has malfunctioned.

Yours Sincerely,
Mr GweeB

@Shane
You're an interesting one as well because of your position right now, and because you happen to live in America where it's just sooooooooo fucking easy to escape the rat-race that I'm puzzled what it is you find hard about achieving it.  The internet is an amazing research tool, we've never had it so easy, everything you need to know is already out there.  Have to say, the members of this forum are quite unique in that usually, people who appreciate the freedom of escaping the rat-race are respectful to one another.  Not here though, it's treated as if a person is rubbing it in, when actually, it's just an attempt to point alternatives out.  Still, this forum isn't for that sort of thing, so that's understandable I suppose.

But by being respectful, you learn stuff, cause people talk to you (trust me), they contact you out of the blue cause they know from what you write, that you're planning to achieve what they've already achieved.  They can see when you're genuine as long as you're doing exactly the same thing as they were doing when they were preparing to ditch the rat-race.  We've just heard how Doric lives, but for some reason he had to write it like it was a revenge post, he even called me a GweeB in the process :-D

For those who aren't interested in ditching the rat-race, that's fine, but that's no reason to mock those that are, or take what they're doing as some sort of one-upmanship.  What you both yourself and Doric forget is that I know what I'm doing (whether you want to believe that or not).  And while I'm not out of the UK yet, I know from people who I'm in contact with (people who are already living the lifestlye I'm going to be living), that what I'm going to do is not only perfectly sustainable, but actually quite ingeniuos.  I won't just have a stress-free lifestlye, I'll have quite a few luxuries besides - I've given like-minded lifestylers a few ideas before I even manage it myself.  Escaping the rat-race doesn't mean giving-up what you like (and this is for you, Shane).  It's not like you'd be without electricity.  It's not like you'll never speak to your friends again.  The year is 2015, an age of satellites, mobile communication, solar power, pure-sine inverters, deep-cycle rechargeable batteries, diy electronics.  And for me, personally, there's absolutely nothing about the rat-race I desire, and nothing I could have that I can't have by being away from it all.  So personally, I say fuck the rat-race, I don't want it.  And if that's not for you, that's fine, but people (meaning both yourself and Doric in this instance) need to quit acting like it's some sort of 'one-upmanship' when I post stuff related to that type of thing, there's no need for the snarkyness, I don't get why you do it or what you think it will achieve.

Crap ... there goes another long post that was never meant to happen ...

@DMD/Primorge
Sorry, crossposted, gotta eat, will post later :-D

If I may? How do you make ends meet, Pumeco?  And, I believe, that member Doric is a retired engineer who had an esteemed position at a job that he was employed at for an extensive span of time. Hence a pension. He probably was insulted by the fact that you've referred to someone like himself as an idiot, slave, and muppet. Understandable and quite restrained response on his part, I'd say.

You demonstrate a curious lack of empathy in your statements which one could extrapolate into more serious personality disorders in relation to society.

If I may? How do you make ends meet, Pumeco?  And, I believe, that member Doric is a retired engineer who had an esteemed position at a job that he was employed at for an extensive span of time. Hence a pension. He probably was insulted by the fact that you've referred to someone like himself as an idiot, slave, and muppet. Understandable and quite restrained response on his part, I'd say.

Retired as a gage technician, sorry, not engineer.  Pension, not that good, if it was all I had coming in, I'd be hurting.  30 years with the same company, therefore, 30 and out.  But, not always the gage tech, from turret lathe operator to just about every other machine we had, all phases of inspection except metalurgy.  All together, 44 years of metalworking in it's different areas, and metrology is one of them.  The gage technician was the highest paid hourly position that was not piecework.  About $25/hour when I retired, pieceworkers could make about $5/hour more.  Metalworking was my passion, and precision becomes an obsession.  I feel fortunate I could make a decent living doing what I really loved.  Therefore, one side of my basement is a complete metalworking shop, the other side is woodworking.  Yes, it's a total mess. Doric

@Doric
Yeah, I'm glad you're not a muppet, you don't have to point it out, but I don't understand the animosity in your reply.
I also suspect that your humour chip has malfunctioned.

Yours Sincerely,
Mr GweeB

I'm glad you want to assume that title.  Leave off the two "e's" to get who the GWeeB is.  Someone I would never want to be.  (Hint: used false information to start a war with Iraq.) AND  FEMA camps do not, nor did they ever exist beyond the minds of the paranoid schizophrenics in the right wing media.

Doric.

Primorge Wrote:
"Hmmm. Why did you go on with the charade of being a teenager, then? Have to admit that I was a little perplexed ..."
It was RorrKonn who said I was a teenager in that Photoshaft thread Shane started a while back.
RorrKonn is cool, but sometimes he messes-up a bit.

Primorge Wrote:
"Oh, and the only discussions in this thread that are OT have to do with conspiracy, fashionable America bashing ..."
Then perhaps it would be wise to ask yourselves why America-bashing has become "fashionable".  It's like you're pushing for a 'Clowns of the Universe' Oscar or something.  If "Fox" is causing this image of insanity the Americans are suffering the world-over, start slamming the bastards with super-epic fines and use the proceeds strictly to sort out your homeless situation.  Build them some homes, proper ones, using "Fox" money.  And hey, don't mention it, I'm just overflowing with fucking good ideas!

Primorge Wrote:
"And Pumeco, you might want to tone down the misogynistic hate speech a little ..."
Pass, you'll have to clarify that one.

Primorge Wrote:
"Just makes you look like an unlaid bitter dork ..."
Must admit, my penis could use some love and effection, and I'm bitter about that, as is my penis.

Primorge Wrote:
"Or perhaps a blabber mouthed narcissistic serial killer wannabe ..."
That's a fine one coming from a guy who posted himself with a chainsaw.  And just so you know, one of my never talked-about interests is psychology.  I watch serial-killer documentaries with interest, and you'd be surprised how many of the shrinks talk bullshit (or maybe you wouldn't, but that would be telling, wouldn't it).  There's a big give-away in two of your posts as to whether you are/not a real deviant yourself.  Your rection to ildjarn was one of them.  That said, I'd cast you in a lead role in one of my upcoming films if you were among the auditions - I still like you.

Isn't psychology fun?

Primorge Wrote:
"If I may? ..."
No, you may not.

Primorge Wrote:
"And, I believe, that member Doric is a retired engineer who had an esteemed position at a job that he was employed at for an extensive span of time. Hence a pension. He probably was insulted by the fact that you've referred to someone like himself as an idiot, slave, and muppet. Understandable and quite restrained response on his part, I'd say ..."
I've never said a thing against the guy, and frankly, couldn't care less how much he pointlessly lays into me, but I know why he lays into me.
On a more amusing note, I've dropped two hints in this thread now, Doric clearly hasn't spotted them, and I don't think you have either.

Primorge Wrote:
"You demonstrate a curious lack of empathy in your statements which one could extrapolate into more serious personality disorders in relation to society."
Being a non-conformist is not a disorder, other than "in relation to society".

only kids living at there parents home don't half to work for a living 

I suspect Pumeco saying he's over thirty is a conspiracy theory.

so Pumeco : if your not a 14 year old living with his parents. prove it :)

Primorge Wrote:
"And, I believe, that member Doric is a retired engineer who had an esteemed position at a job that he was employed at for an extensive span of time. Hence a pension. He probably was insulted by the fact that you've referred to someone like himself as an idiot, slave, and muppet. Understandable and quite restrained response on his part, I'd say ..."
I've never said a thing against the guy, and frankly, couldn't care less how much he pointlessly lays into me, but I know why he lays into me.
On a more amusing note, I've dropped two hints in this thread now, Doric clearly hasn't spotted them, and I don't think you have either.

You may think you know why, but unless what you THINK you know is I'm calling out a conspirowhacko, you're totally wrong.  Amateur psychologist, eh?  About like a buddy I have that has only two years of psychology under his academic belt.  To him, Poser and porn are one and the same.  Except  I don't do porn.  Never did.  

And, "My country, right or wrong, but MY country.  If we're wrong, find out who was wrong and build a gallows." 

WRT Fox "noise", we have first, free speech, it's in our constitution.  We have a free press, by extension, a free media.  Also guaranteed in the constitution. Go to youtube, seach on "rush limbaugh sandra fluke" then search on "Sandra fluke testimony" to see what big money can get away with.  Then explain why the incredible bulk gets fifty million per year, because we sure as hell can't figure that out.  It shouldn't be hard to equate him with the bullshit conspiracies out there.

Doric.

so Pumeco : if your not a 14 year old living with his parents. prove it :)

 

 

 

 

Probably a thirty something living with his parents. Doric

Lol.

The picture with the chainsaw was by a friend, we were trimming trees that day.

Well, I've had a chequered past (hell, a spotty present) with various social ills and the authorities... I've also traveled across this country and back and seen and experienced things from all spectrums of society. Don't know if my art, comments, or legal and experiential history qualify me as a deviant in the eyes of an authority such as yourself. But I do know that mere words and posturing do not qualify one as a deviant or non conformist in my eyes. I'm pleased to say that I haven't been handcuffed in months. Lol.

Ildjarn's music sucks IMO, simple as that. If the fact that he is more than likely a poser and you're beguiled by his interview face and that he will probably never live up to his words "I hope to be dead in 5 years, etc, etc" makes me a non deviant in the eyes of an authority such as yourself... so be it. It's more than logical to assume that the real deviants aren't even aware of having such status, aaannnd I couldn't care less how an artist wipes their metaphysical ass, as long as the art is good.

The fact that you refuse to answer very simple questions about yourself indicates a lot to me, Pumeco. 

BTW, I never stated that I am a deviant. I'm not concerned with it, frankly it's all incredibly immature... basically textbook mallrat shit. The fact that this is the flavor of the week for you is strictly your problem. I'd like to think I'm just a normal guy with some temper issues and a few demons... People that know me all say I'm a good person who tends to get into conflicts with assholes. I sincerely hope that they're right about the good bit.

OK, back to rendering and watching 'Son of God'.

Edit _sorry forgot the language tag.

Maybe we should lay off the poor fellow before he goes on a rampage at the mall or something... Rofl. 

Sorry pumeco, couldn't resist. ;)

It's always fun to hear from people who've never lived here just how easy it is for us Americans to live like kings and toss the daily grind.

There are a handful of people in the states that can live that way, but it's almost always due to one or more scenarios: They come from a rich family or have some kind of substantial inheritance they're living off of; some kind of pension or insurance settlement, (usually combined with savings from years of hard work and the luck of seldom - if ever - having had any major upsets that depleted that savings, which is more often the case); or they were one of the very few lucky ones who started a business that turned gold fairly quickly and either sold it or retired early. Most businesses fail within the first 5 years. The rest are either living off of someone else's dime or they're lying to you. There's no getting around it.

The cost of living in the US far exceeds most people's annual salary. The average American's credit card debt exceeds $100K. That's just credit card debt. Then there are mortgages, car payments, etc. And even if you've paid off your house and your car and have no credit card debt, you're still going to have an annual property tax bill no matter where you live, unless you're living on someone else's property (aka someone else's dime). If you live in or near a major city with public transportation then you don't always need a car, but the vast majority of people in the US do not live near major cities and do not have access to public transportation. And most counties in the US require annual property tax on your car as well, whether it's paid for or not, it's usually based on the value of the car.

Even if you're one of these folks who "live off the grid", producing your own electricity and pumping your own water from the ground (if that's even legal in your area, thanks the the EPA in many areas it is not legal to do so anymore - in some places it's not even legal to collect rain water), Uncle Sam still knows where you live, and he's going to want his annual rent, which means you have to have an annual income, which is also heavily taxed.

So even when you think you aren't a part of the rat race, you're still a part of it to some extent, if you live in the US. Either that or you're living off the hard work of someone else, and for most of us over the age of 30-40, we were raised to work for what we wanted or needed. Nothing worth having comes easy and no one owes you a damned thing just because you exist.

Shane, I wouldn't paint the financial picture quite so dark.  For context, I live in a town of about 10000 people, near Milwaukee, (30 miles) and while I know there are a few that have a lot of CC debt, in every case, if they'd try to live within their means, they wouldn't have.  Also, retired, and over 65, so I get a few breaks, none where I'd really like them.  Town's claim to fame, the Burlington Liars club, whoopee.  Property taxes run me about $2400 per year, slowly inching up, it'll never go down.  Income taxes, federal, usually about $300, but SS isn't taxed, I'm not over that limit from my pension.  State taxes, $0, again I'm below the limit.  My only daughter, born with multiple birth defects, so I could forget about saving anything for a good many years, the doctors got it all, even after my insurance paid.  Her back brace was about $1000 and the deductible left me paying roughly a quarter of that.  A new girdle for it was about $600, and IIRC, about a quarter of that was mine to pay.  She had 3 spine surgeries and 4 urinary surgeries, lots of deductibles there.  Or, I didn't have a lot left for anything.  But it didn't mean I put things on the CC, I've only had one for maybe 20 years, and I've never paid them a cent of interest.  Things I didn't have cash for, I didn't buy. The wife also had a lot of medical problems, but not too bad until we were both in our mid 40's so really, until she passed away at 56, there still wasn't a lot for anything.  I know what it's like to scratch my butt for anything I wanted and a lot of times for what we needed.

Never had a new car, usually something five or six years old when I got it, closest to it, I bought a 91 Chevy S-10 in 93 then drove that until 2006.  I say I retired at age 55, but in reality, add seven years onto that while I was working 5 to 8 hours per day in a tool shop.  Then SS kicked in, so I could stop that. 

There were many times I had to work 2 jobs to pay the bills, And I know what it's like to work 8 hours a day, seven days a week, for months on end and barely keep my head above water.  Or, TAANSTAFL.

Doric.

Maybe we should lay off the poor fellow before he goes on a rampage at the mall or something... Rofl. 

Sorry pumeco, couldn't resist. ;)

Naah.  Keep going, find out if he's made out of iron or silly putty. Doric.

Even though I think some of Pumeco's notions are rubbish and he can be a little insulting with the "your a slave and a conformist" thing, I'll still give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I've had a lot of peculiar friends in my time. One of my closest friends from high school onward developed schizophrenia in his 20's and was eventually murdered in his late 30's, another close friend has had two extensive bids in prison. I've lived in the red light district of San Francisco for more than a decade, seedy areas of Philadelphia, and come from a kind of bohemian, starving artist, background. I'm still a drifter, even in my late 40's. I'm a sympathetic sort when it comes to characters of his nature. Besides, this is just chat afterall.

As far as testing his mettle, nope... not seriously interested. Life will take care of all that.

Also this is a poser forum, it's not like I can hand him a 70 pound I beam and say "here, help me me carry this and 20 more up 4 flights of stairs" to see if he can handle it.

Your story is an exception, Doric, not the standard. And that's another misconception about CC debt. Yes a lot of people try to live richer than they are just to keep up appearances with their friends, but a lot more people, especially these days, have to rely on their credit cards just to make ends meet. They're not living fancy lives or driving expensive cars or going out every weekend. Or any weekend for that matter. They're buying groceries and paying their monthly rent and utilities with them and making the minimum payments, because whatever cash they do make each month doesn't stretch to the end of the month. I know several people who have had to live on their credit cards because they can't find work and don't qualify for unemployment. And there are far more people who don't qualify for it than those who do. I know a guy right now who's almost 50 and got fired last year after working for the same company for 25 years. Not due to any fault of his own, just due to his company "restructuring" - aka getting rid of the guys that are close to retirement. His unemployment has been denied 3 times and since he doesn't have kids he doesn't get food stamps. And if you don't have credit cards and you're in that situation, good luck. You better learn how to sell dope or ass. Sure, there are other ways to make money without a regular job, but that requires a lot of planning, usually having or obtaining new skills pretty quick, and some form of initial cash investment. $25 might as well be $25,000 when you don't have enough in your pocket to buy a tv dinner.

If you live in a unionized state or if you worked for a union for several years, then it may (or may not) be a bit easier for you, but most of the US is not unionized, and in those that are the unions are shrinking for various reasons. It's good to have SS to rely on, but I'm 40 so SS is not an option for me, and by the time I reach 65 (if I make it that far) the age for receiving SS will have been pushed much further up, if it even exists at all by that point. So I don't even think about it, as the likelihood of it ever being an option for me is virtually non-existent at this point. Just more money the feds have stolen from my generation and those coming after mine. Very few are anywhere close to being successful. Most people my age are just trying to survive month to month. It's easier when you have a working spouse because that potentially doubles your monthly income, and with kids you have a bunch of tax credits and benefits. For a single person it's virtually impossible to survive. We pay higher taxes because we're looked at as having more "disposable" income by the tax codes than someone who's raising a family. Very much not the case at all.

I've been working since I was 15, I've never had the luxury of working for a company that provided health care. Always had to pay a premium and have never been able to afford the premium so I went without. Auto insurance is much more important cause I have to be able to drive in order to get to or find work. A.C.A. doesn't exist in my state and is entirely unaffordable for me, at over $600/mo. min. for a single man.

@Shane
Regards that last post of yours, well then, knowing what you know, you have two options really, don't you?
A - Fall for the slavery system you know they have in place.
B - Follow the wisdom of those who don't and never will have to worry about that system.

Illegal to catch rainwater, lol, then go somewhere where it's not illegal to catch rainwater.  You're failaing even a simple logic test there, Shane.  And not to point out the obvious, Americans tolerating such laws would be another perfect example of why the rest of the world laugh at you.  Tell me, have they made it illegal to consume air yet?  When they finally get around to that one, them plastic boxes is gonna start to look real comfy.

Anywaiy, enough of that shit, cause I know from what you write that you don't dislike the idea of doing what I suggested (even if the tone you put out suggests otherwise).  In fact I think you've looked into it and fell for the same trap most people do; they see an obstacle, but instead of figuring a way around it, they let it stop them completely.  What you need to do, everytime that happens, is remind yourself that others get around those obstacles, therefore, if you fail to do the same, you are the failure, not those that managed it.  And no, it's not rich people who live on savings doing this, it's people at the polar opposite end of the financial spectrum.

If you ever figure this out, you'll realise why I said I'm fascinated by your take on things, you'll face-palm yourself for sure, but then laugh with relief.

Go stack some shelves, do whatever it is you have to do to get yourself out of the debt your government brainwashed you into.  While you're stacking those shelves, spend that time wisely, look into alternative lifestyles and keep at it until you have a plan that solves every situation you just pointed out.  It will piss you off immesureably at first, cause you'll find a plan and then realise there's something that puts a spanner in the works.  You'll try a gain, come up with another plan, and find there's a spenner in the works with that one too.  But the more you do it, the better you get, and that's when you start coming across places that only the people with your amount of determinatiton are capable of finding.

When you get there, you'll know you made it.

Best advice is this:

• Ensure your plan does not break any laws, no matter how silly or obnoxious they are.
• Don't assume that all laws are a bad thing, some are actually an advantage to those that want to ditch the rat-race, cause it keeps the dreamers away.
• Depending on what you want out of it, fixed abodes aren't always the best solution.

@RorrKonn
I posted an image of me on a forum a few years back, but that forum has been wiped of images now.  It was an image of me posing with my then new camera, and just for laugh, I did my hair like the classic "effeminate photographer" type of thing.  Had it not been wiped I would be only too happy to post it here for you to "prove I'm not a teenager".

LMFAO

@Doric
Hey Doric, and a very good morning to you too!

@Primorge
Sorry, but I just wasn't impressed by your chainsaw at all, I've seen old ladies shave their mustaches with cooler hardware than that - I'm just sayin'.
And just so you know, I really am a form of deviant (I'd hate not to be) - so don't argue with me.

Thanks for showing at least some compassion for my ramblings, I appreciate that, but at the same time it has to be said that a lot of your recent posts show a bit too much muppet-like tendancies for comfort.  I like the original Primorge, so I'll return the favour and give you "the benefit of the doubt" too, cause even if you're just a wannabe, you were much more to my liking when you didn't sound like a muppet.  You have the right stance, though, I'd still give you a lead role - you look perfectly dangerous to me - and I want only the best for my work.  Your chaisaw might be lame but your stance certainly isn't, you'd be quite a catch for an indie filmmaker with vision.

Regards ildjarn's music, I think you like it really, so here's a track to tide you over while you find me a heavy Meshuggah interview for the other thread:

lol. Right Yoda. Tell ya what. How about you go stack shelves for $7.25 an hour and see how long it takes you to pay off $130K in student loan debt. Keep in mind, if you don't make your minimum payment of $1200 a month there's late fees and added interest tacked on.

Be sure to let us know how you're doin in 20 years when you've barely put a dent in those loans.

Sorry I'm not one dimensional enough for your approval pumeco. 

@shane,

Funny you should mention the rich people living off an inheritance or trust... seems like most of them end up in art schools in California. 

Pumeco, I noticed in the bug report sticky that you are under the impression that turning smoothing off in poser doesn't work. It's a little more tricky than what's readily apparent (as with most things poser). Turn off smoothing and set crease angle at 0 value, in properties, on concerned objects and observe what happens.

@Shane
$130K in student loan debt, are you serious? - I thought you said you were $6K or $8K in debt or something like that!
WTF happened since our last conversation to get it to that amount?

I just did a currency conversion on it, and bloody hell, $130K is the equivalent of around £82K, and the monthly payment is around £760.  I don't know how you managed to even get a student loan for that amount.  Actually, I don't even know what a student loan is supposed to be for, not really.  I just assumed it's for buying things you might need for college, books etc, and considering the internet, I don't see why you would even need it for that!

But yeah, you caught Yoda out on that one, lol, don't know what to suggest.

I dunno, maybe offer yourself as a slave to some rich bitch with a yacht?  Don't knock it, it could be fun.  And not only that, you'd be a slave even if you didn't go that route, so surely it would be better to take the route that offers potential riches and the likelyhood of sun-drenched sex on the side.  Keep her yacht nice and shiny and life could be good.  No living costs means that you get to pay-off your debt really quick, and if she's kinky, you could really pile on the costs for such pleasures.

If you don't fancy that, isn't there any type of work that pays a lot due to danger, stuff people don't want to do but it pays well due to the risks involved?
Maybe something like that, just grit your teeth and bear it for a year or so, then get the hell out of there.

@Primorge
No need to apologise, hardly anyone completely meets with my approval anyway, not that it matters.

For whatever it's worth, I've got about 80 grand in student loan debt (and rising as we speak). I suppose I was lucky in that I seemed to be good at being awarded grants and scholarships, otherwise the amount would be more. When you reach that level of debt, a few thousand more or less doesn't make much of an impact.

Pumeco, many of the dangerous jobs really don't pay as well as you might expect. You start out low man on the totem and have to deal with an almost overwhelming level of testing and bullshit, many times while the veterans stand around and watch. Fairness isn't in the equation with these people. Also, being that many times this is mercenary type of labor to start, there's no medical. You begin to really question whether all of the daily minor injuries (which begin to add up to serious injuries) are worth the wee bit of extra income. Getting by on luck just to stay out of harms way isn't a sensible way to go through life in my opinion.

Shane, I know I'm not the norm.  And I know student loans are now something that has to be reckoned with, but I also know higher education of the formal kind wasn't for me.  Out of my high school class, all eighteen of us, I was the only one that didn't go on to college, but I made a beeline for what I found interesting, or, what I was suited for.  I had to leave California to do it, never regretted that move, and I'm not a native Californian anyhow. 

Union area, at that time, yes.  Now, only a few companies still here that are union, and with grovelmore walker, they probably won't be much longer.  Insurance, I know exactly what people mean when they say they can't look for other work because of insurance reasons.  My kid with pre-existing conditions, and my wife with her problems, if I'd left, I could forget about insurance. 

The only way a credit card isn't a rip is the way I use it, pay it down to zero as soon as the bill comes in.  Anything else, you know why I call them bankruptcy cards.  They're a fast way to bankruptcy.  I use my checking a lot, cash a little, CC only when I make an on line purchase, which isn't often.  And more than not, I'll use the phone to order rather than on line.  Some of the websites I order from have an even worse search than rendo forums, some others if they're out of stock, I know it immediately.  A lot of the things I order won't be available again once the current stock is gone.  But that's me and my situation, I do realize others may not be in the same place. Doric

That's tuition Pumeco. College is corporate-controlled big business here in the states. We don't get free education. And if you intend on ever making more than minimum wage, flipping burgers or working at wal-mart the rest of your life, then you have to get at least a 2-year degree. And these days even that is pretty much laughed at. Most companies expect you to have a bachelors or better before they'll even bother giving you an interview. The average cost of a 4-year degree runs about $70K - $90K. And no, there are no entry-level jobs that are going to pay you anywhere close to what it would take to pay those loans back so you'd best make damned sure it's a field you're going to stick with and one that you actually have a shot of getting hired into once you graduate, or you'll still be working at wal-mart and $100K further in debt. And unlike other loans, student loans are with you for life. There's no way of getting out from under them other than paying them off.

I don't know where you heard $6 - $8K. lol. I'd gladly pay that if that's all I owed. Hell that doesn't even cover one class.

I'm not the only one. Remember Occupy back in 2011? Student loan debt in the US topped $1trillion back in 2013, and more than half of graduates are unemployed or under employed with no way of paying their loans back, so they're all going into default. And the debt bubble is about to bust wide open. These schools all advertise degree programs for fields that are already saturated but lie about the job placement rate or skew the numbers to make it sound a lot better than it actually is. And students fall for it, especially those just coming out of high school, they know they have to go to college if they want half a shot at ever being anything. But even when you do your research - which I did very thoroughly before I signed up - you still don't get the real facts until you're actually living it. 

@Doric: You're from my parent's generation. A lot of things were different back then. You didn't have to have a college degree as long as you worked hard and pretty much stayed put. My parents didn't go to college. My mom took a few classes just after highschool but gave it up to get married. My dad joined the army and became a career soldier, so any schooling he had came from the military and was paid for. It's a very different playing field today. If you don't go to college, then your chances of ever having anything are pretty much non-existent. And even if you do go to college, it's like playing russian roulette with your future and your finances. But you've gotta play it. There's always the exception to the rule. Always the one guy that lucked out, sticks with the same job since high school and learns everything there is to know about it and makes 6 figures a year, but for most people especially today that is not the case.

Pumeco, I've had a couple of jobs that weren't considered safe.  Fighting forest fires, not what you want to do for three days without stopping, but I did it.  The  pay sucked big.  Aircraft fueling crew on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, life expectancy for insurance purpose, thirty seconds.   Jets, one end bites, the other end kicks.  Night ops, you can't see a spinning prop, but that doesn't mean you're not going to be pumping fuel into it anyhow.  You also can't see the exhaust of a jet, day or night, but it's going to be there and if you get caught in it, you're going to be overboard.  Walk too close to the intake of a running jet, you're going to go in.  Additional pay, $50 per month more than someone cleaning compartments below deck.  Service in a combat zone, another $50 per month.  See how far that goes to paying off any kind of debt.  OH, yeah, I almost forgot.  You'd also be wearing the ear protectors, so you can't hear anything either.  Lovely place.

Doric

Always the one guy that lucked out, sticks with the same job since high school and learns everything there is to know about it and makes 6 figures a year, but for most people especially today that is not the case.

Metalworking, just when you think you've got the game figured, some SOB changes the rules.  It's never the same, it's an education that goes as long as you work in it.  Wish I knew where those six figures were, I might have tried for it.  Best year I ever had, I barely broke 40K and that was just the one year.  That was also many many hours of overtime.  And yes, I agree, it was a different and probably far better era than now.  Most places that still manufacture in this area want at least a journeyman's card and from one of the technical colleges, Milwaukee Area Technical College being the preferred one.  Two years in a glorified vocational school trumps thirty years of experience.  Hmm. Could be why we were always able to grin after the process engineer left after he'd timed a job to determine what we got paid for each piece, what he learned in a book isn't going to equal what even ten years of experience on the machine gave us.  Of course, we never told him the "secrets" that all of us knew.
Doric.

@Primorge
Regards the Poser thing: I know about that, but the switch should turn it off without adjusting the crease angle, otherwise what's the point of the switch?

Regards the debt:  I really don't get why these loans are for such epic amounts of money in the first place.  I mean what on earth do you do with it?  I've never been in debt and never will be, so loans and the way they work have never interested me.  It boils down to the same thing again, you're doing what everyone else does, doing what "society" expects you to do.

Tell me, what on earth did Shane need $130K for a student loan for? ... that's $130K FFS!
Better still, tell me why a person needs a student loan at all!

And you as well, lol, you've got one of those things :-D

I used to have a car, I used to like owning one, but when it got to the point where car ownership was an unsustainable liability for me, that was it, the car had to go.  And it's the same with anything else, if you cannot afford it, you have to get over the fact that you cannot have it - simple as that.  It's failure to grasp basic logic that get's people into debt.  I want a Canon 5D Sooooooooo fucking bad it's pathetic, but I can't afford one, so I can't have one!  And It pisses me off whenever I see the 'rich kids' get them for Christmas, only to shoot their fucking cat videos with them - but what can you do?

Wasn't it you who said "life's not fair"?
Too bloody right it isn't!

But you know what?  ... When I'm in the position to do so, then I'll be able to save-up for one, and then I'll be able to buy one!
In the meantime, the anticipation of finally owning one is something that makes the wait bearable.

Sorry, crossposted, didn't see those posts after Primorge's.
Gotta eat, will read later.

Tell me, what on earth did Shane need $130K for a student loan for? ... that's $130K FFS!
Better still, tell me why a person needs a student loan at all!

Depending on what degree you're after and which school, that could be much higher for a four year degree.  One of the big name, ivy league schools, might run a quarter million before you're done, or more.  It's not like it was "back when", or when I got out of high school.  I know several of the kids in that class went to Santa Rosa JC, got their I think associate degrees and left with no debt by taking part time work.  Not possible now.  Colleges and universities aren't as they once were, education is now secondary to the profit motive.  State owned colleges are facing severe cuts in some certain states which will more than likely result in closing some campuses.  Just one more place that corporate money is making things so expensive only the wealthy will be able to afford it.  We have an experiment in privatized schools in Milwaukee, full blown corporate take over, with full blown results, lower test scores for those schools than for the public system.  And I have to go finish mowing the lawn before the house can't be seen through the weeds.

Doric

@Primorge
To be honest, I wouldn't do the dangerous stuff anyway if the differences in pay are as unbalanced as Doric pointed out.
As with everything put upon citizens, it's just one big piss-take.

@Shane
Well, I still think you're a muppet for falling for it (Primorge too), you're just gonna have to accept that I'm not trying to be rude when I use the term muppet.

If you could turn back the clock I'm pretty sure you'd take a pass on student loans (or any loans).  But it's done now, and while it's not a solution as such, the only obvious thing about your situation is that whatever you do to get yourself out of debt, it needs to pay a fair bit, so I'm not surprised shelf-stacking won't cut it now that I know the amount.

I don't know the ins and outs of going into business in America, but I think that's probably the only way you'll get a decent amount of pay.  The problem with looking for a job is there's going to be millions of others looking for it as well, and even if you get one, you're effectively just another slave who's job can be filled by any other slave willing to work for the minimum slave-wage.

But if you start a business which has some uniqueness to it, I think the chances of success would be notably higher.
You have a reliable vehicle, so how about becoming a private investigator, be your own boss, you set the pay (Shane PI Ltd) ;-)

@Doric
Yeah, well if you make it back through the weeds I have a question that's right up your street from the sounds of it.  I need to know if there's an easy way to tell what specification of screw a CNC machine uses, short of dismantling the thing and sending off the screw.  It's easy enough to do but I don't want to screw-up the precision until I've used it to cut parts needed to extend it.

I've got one of those cheapo Chinese efforts, it's been sitting in the corner of the room ever since I bought it, gathering dust.  I wish I'd waited and got a bigger one, but I'm stuck with it now so I need to fit bigger screws to it to give me a bigger machine.  I have to order the same spec of screw otherwise it won't fit the part it runs through, and I'd like to avoid dimantling it for now.  There's all sorts of weird spec and numbers for them, and it being Chinese, they probably don't even sell the same thread in the UK for all I know.

conspiracy theories

Pumeco ya proof vanished huh
that's OK .
we know your the juvenile delinquent that burned down the school last week
we have proof we have you and your crue on tape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U ;)

DeathMetalDesk yes a dude named Death must be innocent .
go ahead and scream your innocent 
We know your leather face from the chainsaw massacres.
We have you on video creating your perverted demented Art that we all love so much.
"video denied for renderosity TOS violation ... it to insane to post on these forums !!! "
replaced video ??? ... ;)

 AmbientShade ...aka  fightclub leader we have video of you crashing the blood sucking leaches financial records of all debt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1d5VvCa8Fo ;)

PrecisionXXX annitjjf jgyt union boss uuthhdy thth big bands oginn dj yyiinng oogm
ooyjjfnndg Hoffa ttiihjn oottjhmm vnri Sinatra ooukmh metal works mmg.
video iyiyjgnnh proof yyjjrn ootiyunh ootiyjm missing ;)

this is like the weirdest poser forum thread ever

RorrKonn Wrote:
"Pumeco ya proof vanished huh
that's OK .
we know your the juvenile delinquent that burned down the school last week
we have proof we have you and your crue on tape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U ;) "

Dude, thanks for that, and bloody hell, you can really tell that's an analogue recording - steel balls in the bass or what - yummy!
I love analogue tape recordings, down with digital, I'm such a deviant!

Misty Wrote:
"this is like the weirdest poser forum thread ever"

But you've not even met the King of the Potatoe People yet:

Pumeco,

All of your ranting and what not only proves that you know nothing about the US.  Have you ever even visited the US?  Taken the time to understand how things work in this country?  Rather than spread ignorant untruths, find out the real facts.  I live in a state where we have reservations.  They aren't fenced or controlled.  The only way you know you're on one is you pass a green highway sign that tell you whatever reservation.  Oh, and you will start to see signs posted by the businesses there to remind those who are not Native Americans that they won't be charged taxes on their purchases and gambling is legal.  No animosity, no problems.   

I also own guns.  I have a license to conceal and carry.  Would I ever think to aim it at a Law Enforcement Officer?  No,  I owe my life a LEO.  One who, in the end, gave his life to save another.  I always find it ironic how people complain about the LEO's until something bad happens.  Then they are the first ones punching in 911 and demanding help. 

Wow this sounds like a bunch of spoiled brats.... I am 68 grew up in Northern Minnesota.. Hunted fished or grew our food. Father got transferred to Ohio

What a life change.. Got married at 19.. 26 months in a South East Asia (not fun) 2 great kids. Bought my first restaurant before my 23 birthday..  7 figures in the bank before

1. Condos in Key West and Hilton Head along with a collection of great cars. Wife diagnosed with Leukemia on our 34 anniversary.  Less than 4 years the condos the cars and  money and my wife is gone!  SO WHAT!! This is the greatest country to live in  I am still living my dreams even if not with my soul mate. Quit grumbling and get off you dead asses. Nobody owes you a damn thing  EARN IT

If I offend tuff   Jaxon

The

Pumeco, you can't just become a PI. In just about every state you need a degree in criminal justice, a few years of police experience above a patrolman, never been arrested for basically anything, recommendations, background checks (that you can fail very easily for something someone else did) etc.

Education in the US is big business, even around here there are colleges that exceed 80k a year to attend. Getting a degree from them is probably not any harder than any other college, But getting one from the more expensive one looks better on paper, and it shows by who gets hired, and who doesn't

Your comment about government putting things on the people.... Well, the cats dam sure wont do it. Might be able to get a dog to do some of it.

Your car statement about not having one works in very few places in the US

I most places in the US, not having a car is not an option. I guess you might be able to ride a horse in some states, but not all of them but any means,

Go to the middle of a farming state and call a cab, they will ask you what day you need it................. Public transportation, well is is only in places that have public

I am not sure where you live Pumeco, but we have more square miles of parks than the United Kindom has,  We have more square miles of golf courses.........

You can walk across England people do that a lot to say they did, it is just shy of 200 miles wide....

Texas is almost 700 miles wide................... 2700+ from coast to coast in the US, assuming that you fly... And that is the shortest distance, longest walking distance is 3800+.... Walk across just the Virginia's, that will take a while because there is not a strait path on the ground by any means.... There isn't in a car either... So take a horse... lol....

Life in one place is nothing like life in another. I have lived in more than a few places and seen that first hand. Some places you can live off the land, some places you can not. Some places you can drink the water. Other places is will kill you if you drink it, and that has nothing to do with anything mankind did. 

Icprncss2 Wrote:
"Would I ever think to aim it at a Law Enforcement Officer? No ..."
Me neither (unless they aimed at me), which is what I said.  Pointing a gun at a person is a threat of death, cause guns are designed to do one thing - kill.

I'd rather not risk the chance of them being a nutjob and pulling the trigger before I do.  We don't have guns over here in the way you do, but if it were legal I'd be carrying one, and I'd use it on anyone that pointed a gun at me - as would anyone else with any common sense.  Logic dictates that when it comes to guns, the loser is the one who didn't pull the trigger first.  It's that good old fashioned logic again, not only capable of keeping you out of debt, but more besides.  And the solution, of course, is to not have your cops going around pointing guns at people in the first place ;-)

Jaxon101 Wrote:
"This is the greatest country to live in"
I think it's truly amazing how you've lived in every other country long enough to come to that conclusion :-D

David Wrote:
"you can't just become a PI"
You can when you live in a free country ;-)

"This is like the weirdest Poser forum thread ever."

I wonder what primorge thinks about that dubious distinction?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LBHN7aJGogY