Quite a touching email I got from Daz. They say they miss me so much, they will pay me to get back.

But I still shop there - mainly for animals...

LoL

They say they miss you, but are you sure that they are not cooing the same sweet words into someone elses ear when your back is turned? And they say they will pay you? Sounds to me like they are feeling guilty about something, but then I'm the suspicious type.

They only ~20% miss me about once every other month...  ;-)

They don't miss the user, they miss the users money.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I get the same emails. There is nothing at Daz for me and I hate the site changes.

LOL...ya they miss the money.  4.6 did them in I think..

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the "sentiment", LOL!  There are some really good PA's and Fastgrab sales that, in combination, this works well. 

I just think it's funny that we get on a automated "We miss you" system.

If they miss me maybe they should start catering to me?  A Coupon for nothing I can use is not a coupon.

Ugh...fun thread...not fun anymore...

Quote - Ugh...fun thread...not fun anymore...

Daz WHO ? Daz the one that mises you :-)

Quote - Ugh...fun thread...not fun anymore...

Sorry I ruined your good time, I'll go.

That's so weird.

Because I miss the feature of DS3 that automatically added all my Poser runtimes.

I miss unimesh figures that all took the same maps so I could save some texture memory while still having variety.

I miss reduced res figures that take the same maps as full res ones.

Oh well. Weather you’ve just outgrown something, or if you’ve driven it away by going in a direction they won’t... Missing things is that don’t exist anymore is part of growing up.

:-D

Quote - I miss reduced res figures that take the same maps as full res ones.

But do you really need reduced resolution figures with Genesis?  It's already pretty low-poly.  The RR Generation 3 figures actually have more polys than Genesis.

I still use Daz3 once in awhile..Except Genesis all can be loaded and used

Quote - > Quote - I miss reduced res figures that take the same maps as full res ones.

But do you really need reduced resolution figures with Genesis?  It's already pretty low-poly.  The RR Generation 3 figures actually have more polys than Genesis.

There is no such thing as too low res.

I made my own V3/M3 figures that take uminesh maps and cap out at 2600 polygons.
That's not a typo. Two Thousand Six Hundred polys.

They are a dream for roughing out V3/M3 animation since they share the same rigging.

I've replicated almost every morph, but haven't bothered to make them injectable because it's a PITA. But I think I may one day be able to make them compatible enough that you'll be able to use series 3 facial settings with them.



If you Normal map them from hi-res Series 3 figures they should be very close to the original while still being GAME ENGINE usable.



For background with bump/displace/normal maps I can populate a scene with 27 of them in place of ONE V3 or M3, or even replace a reduced res version with 8 or 9 of them.

Unfortunately, they took so long to develop, in addition to all the personal and computer problems I had, that their Series 3 figure compatibility is largely irrelevant.

I'm sure there are generations of Poser users who never even bothered to own V3/M3.

My own 3D hiatus let me largely skip the entire V4/M4  line, and I've never been able to figure out the Genesis figures. I think they were D|S only with some plug in to use them in Poser?!?!? They didn't seem to fit in with my development skills. So I never invested in them.
Now there is weight mapping and other new features I have to learn to make my RESLOs a viable product. AND since they are so heavily based on the series 3 figures I would have to share the bulk of any sales with DAZ.

So… they are my secret weapons.

Like I said… Missing things is part of growing up.

Quote - Ugh...fun thread...not fun anymore...

In this forum, a thread with DAZ in the title will turn into DAZ-bashing, it's just inevitable. Even when DAZ is handing out no-strings-attached $5 vouchers, it's still a clear indication to the haters that DAZ is evil, desperate, going under, sucking up, up to something, etc, etc, etc.

Quote - > Quote - Ugh...fun thread...not fun anymore...

In this forum, a thread with DAZ in the title will turn into DAZ-bashing, it's just inevitable. Even when DAZ is handing out no-strings-attached $5 vouchers, it's still a clear indication to the haters that DAZ is evil, desperate, going under, sucking up, up to something, etc, etc, etc.

I hope that is not directed at me. I don't think I DAZ "bashed". I did point out areas where DAZ's business model and my needs went their own way.

Valid critisism is not bashing. Since I have a multi thousand dollar investment in Daz Products I think I have a right to valid critisism.

Quote - Quite a touching email I got from Daz. They say they miss me so much, they will pay me to get back.

But I still shop there - mainly for animals...

Haggle.  If they miss you so much tell them they have to make a better offer...

Everything is trolling and bashing these days.  Nobody is allowed to dissent. 

The inmates have taken over the asylum.

It's not just here, it's everywhere.  It's gone way further than mere political correctness anymore.  You WILL ONLY SPEAK POSITIVELY ABOUT ANYTHING.

If someone might feel remotely uncomfortable, you are a Pariah and Agitator.

Quote - If someone might feel remotely uncomfortable, you are a Pariah and Agitator.

Yeah... but I was a Pariah and an Agitator before it was popular. ;-)

I really think it's the way that the dissent is presented rather than someone not agreeing with everything.  There's a lot of value in a good critique.  But when it is presented with so much venom and spite, it really makes you wonder about folks mental health.

I tend to see the opposite.  Whether it's a movie, 3d model or video game, you can't simply enjoy anything these days.  And people argue it like the movie or game or whatever has completely ruined their lives.  "Lighten Up, Francis"

So someone else's strong feeling makes you uncomortable, and therefore they should be silenced and outcasted, yes?  Or they should reword it so that you're not uncomfortable?

Where does that line get drawn, and by whom? 

Do you think that every post with dissent needs to cater to your personal sensibilites? 

Now abuse, stalking, insulting or assumed superiority should be dealt with, but dissent, no matter how catty, is just dissent.  Some people feel that their cattiness is in itself art to some extent.  For example, Cathy Griffin.

Daz lost me a long time ago, and i miss them as much as they miss me I suspect.  I wish our community could still be one, without this genesis/poser split but it's happened and only voting with your wallet is going to change it.

So my Gen4 runtime is happy and content without the need for more.  daz can get me back by giving me what I want, a poser optimised figure like we used to have.  Genesis is too much of a compromise in performance/quality FOR ME and I don't like Daz Studio one little bit, despite attempts at liking it.

(other people will have different opinions than me and that is great, it's why the world is so amazing)

I used to miss people.  But then I got some new sights for my rifle.  :)

I'd be more inclined to see value in a critique if it is presented in a way that is constructive, regardless if the overall tone is negative or positive.  Does it otherwise make me uncomfortable?  No.  Likely to dismiss it, move on etc.? Yes.

Cater to me and all that? Nah.  Don't really think anything has to.  Just saying that's my point of view and what I find to be of value.

Who draws the line? Not my call but eventually the TOS comes into play.  Probably because hopping around like Yosemite Sam is frowned upon.

I had no idea that so much would be extrapolated from what I wrote :)

"Everything is trolling and bashing these days. Nobody is allowed to dissent."

Trolling, bashing, stalking, it really does depend on the POV and whose ox is beign gored does it not? We all have our opinions as to what is out of line so I see a reasonable amount of PC as erring on the side of caution if not politeness. Some see that as an insufferable constraint on their freedom of speech, but again, opinions will differ. I agree with Netherworks that these threads, no matter how innocent or well intended seem to almost always devolve and one or two hyper-partisans end up throwing bombs just to see how fast they can clear the room. That may not be fair or right but it is what it is as they say and unfortunately, as you point out it seems to be the nature of this medium, and increasingly society in general that any issue becomes a blood feud for a minority who, yeah, I do have to question their stability. Sorry, that's just the way I see it. DAZ or SM et al hasn't killed anyone that I'm aware of. They haven't even helped the gov't. spy on anyone AFAIK. There's a difference between strong opinion, or even 'artist's 'passion,' and just plain OC wierdness. Again, it's in the eye of the beholder but as the Justice said, I know it when I see it :-)

NB. this thread hasn't reached that point yet, give it a time.  

I doubt they missed me but then I would never know if they did as any email from Daz will be trapped by my spam filter these days.

While Daz seems to be the usual victim it does not have to figure in title to get someone bashing.  The recent Dawn thread which I regarded as innocent and well meaning showed that when it was locked by a disappointed OP.

It is a shame but it seems to point to a trend.  Here in the UK there has been a spate of suicides of teenage girls who were bullied on line which I find so tragic.  OK here it is just against a company and other peoples veiwpoints but perhaps we should be setting a better example.  I guess it must be my age but I really can't understand why we cannot play nicely and accept others have different views.

I don't see bashing, I see disappointed people who have high expectations expressing themselves passionately. 

Typically the disappointments make a lot of sense and those who chime in with defense do so with blinders on.

Every time, that I have seen, what escalates things and causes repetitive point making and all-caps that translate to casual viewers as "Bashing" is because the defense takes a hard line and cannot even pretend to conieve that someone's dissappointment might be valid and has the right to be heard.

It's the old "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all" axiom being enforced on adults within a forum exchange trying to get the most out of software.

If all you want to hear is "Poser is Great!  Long Live Daz3d!  Sure do love me some Dawn!" then why have a forum at all?  Why discuss? 

Quote - I don't see bashing, I see disappointed people who have high expectations expressing themselves passionately. 

 

Typically the disappointments make a lot of sense and those who chime in with defense do so with blinders on.

Every time, that I have seen, what escalates things and causes repetitive point making and all-caps that translate to casual viewers as "Bashing" is because the defense takes a hard line and cannot even pretend to conieve that someone's dissappointment might be valid and has the right to be heard.

It's the old "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all" axiom being enforced on adults within a forum exchange trying to get the most out of software.

If all you want to hear is "Poser is Great!  Long Live Daz3d!  Sure do love me some Dawn!" then why have a forum at all?  Why discuss? 

 

I would agree with you in regards to this thread but it is early days yet and I have a horrible feeling I know where this is going.  I do understand the disappointment, I was one of the ones disappointed but that seems so long ago now and if you keep picking at a wound in will never get better....just my view.

Very true.  I, for one, don't have much left in the tank regarding these issues.

Is was DAZ own free choice to walk another road.

We can fill pages, we can like or fight, it was their own free choice to do so.

Nothing we write here or elsewhere will change that.

We can hope, that with a third company now, they will act.

But that is all we have.

If you say it loud enough, often enough, someone might hear and take action.

Mr Gorbichov, tear down this wall!

Like that.

Really.

Who cares?

The D thing made a choice. Luck to them.

If blood paints the walls, twas not us who set the blade to their throat. Twas they themselves.

Meanwhile, I've seen more passion and creativity in the poserverse since 'the split'(tm) than at any time since the days of kozaburo, traveller, Syyd, Anton, and a lot of other creative types I could name. And more figure choices than ever.

I'll take creativity and passion and choice over 'One Mesh to Rule Them All' any day.  

I like the way Daz still send me Platinium Club emails. Even though I left about 3 years ago, they still keep trying. They even suggested that to stop getting the emails I log into my PC account (that's the one I don't have btw!) and unsubscribe to the emails. It's sort of sweet really, their lack of understanding for a situation :)

Daz can't miss me, I don't get anything from them.  Every time they sent me an email, I added that to the kill file,"delete from server".  And if they miss me, that's tough.  Sounds disabled, I don't even get a plonk when it goes away.

Doric.

Well....

...it's not that I'm not dissapointed with DAZ and in a way jealous of all the ready-to-use shiny new stuff they churn out for Genesis, but....

...it was not that Poser showed big technical progress prior to Poser 9/PP-2012, so I can understand DAZ rather risking to do their own thing than waiting for Poser to move on with better rigging tech.

It was unfortunate that just when they were finished building a figure based on brand new tech, Poser finally introduced similar rigging tech, too.

Now they are back to the same technical level, but mostly incompatible with each other.

OTOH it wouldn't have hurt DAZ if they had issued a fully Poser compaticle version of Vicky once Poser's rigging tech was "stabilized" by PP-2012 SR2, with weightmapping, animateable joint centers and scaling fully working.

If I wanted I could make Vicky 5 or 6 fully Poser compatible in a few weeks, and I'm just an amateur and not one of DAZ' professional modellers.

It's technically no difference whether you weightmap V3 or V6 in Poser. Actually V6 would be easier as she has only a third of V3's polygons.

(No, I definitely won't do that. Lol)

I mean, they already handled Poser stuff and Studio stuff side-by-side in the past, so while a fully Poser compatible Vicky 5 or 6 (Or Genesis) would mean some extra logistic work, it would also mean not loosing the buisiness of almost all Poser users !

So, I don't hate DAZ.

I'm just dissapointed and moved on doing my own thing.

Quote - I really think it's the way that the dissent is presented rather than someone not agreeing with everything.  There's a lot of value in a good critique.  But when it is presented with so much venom and spite, it really makes you wonder about folks mental health.

Exactly.

Quote - So someone else's strong feeling makes you uncomortable, and therefore they should be silenced and outcasted, yes?  Or they should reword it so that you're not uncomfortable?

None of it makes me uncomfortable. People just need to present their dissent like adults instead of spoiled prepubescents.

Quote - OTOH it wouldn't have hurt DAZ if they had issued a fully Poser compaticle version of Vicky once Poser's rigging tech was "stabilized" by PP-2012 SR2, with weightmapping, animateable joint centers and scaling fully working.

If they did they would have to support two product lines for the same figure. Every product they sold for Vicky would have to have one set up for Poser's rigging, materials etc, and one set up for DAZ Studio's rigging, materials etc. Tricky business. That's a lot of extra work and time to be required, especially since not all DAZ vendors selling products for Vicky are familiar with Poser. I doubt it would be economically feasible for DAZ. I would bet that's the main reason why they haven't done it.

HiveWire seems to be giving it a go for Dawn, we'll have to wait and see how that works out.

Coldrake

"If they did they would have to support two product lines for the same figure. Every product they sold for Vicky would have to have one set up for Poser's rigging, materials etc, and one set up for DAZ Studio's rigging, materials etc. Tricky business. That's a lot of extra work and time to be required, ..."

Why ?

Of course essential DAZ made add-ons like the morph packs would need to be available for both versions, but everyhing non DAZ-made would be up to the individual content creators.

At least according to the Dawn thread in the DAZ forum there is already a lot more support for "Poser-Dawn" out than for "Studio-Dawn". (Which is of course quite understandable)

Hivewire has no real say which version of Dawn gets exactly what kind of support, so why should "unequal" support of a "Studio Vicky 6" vs a "Poser Vicky 6" be a problem for DAZ ?

The DSON importer is pretty much a failure.  (Ok, I didn't test the newest version which was just released. That new crease-subd could be interresting).

Anyway, not my company, not my decision.

Still I think even a "not 100% supported" Vicky 6 that loads, poses and renders in Poser as easy as V4 (Or now Dawn)  does would have made a lot of people forget their grudge.

:-)

The DAZ I've known and supported since I first bought Poser 2 lo these many years past is over at Hivewire 3D now. How can someone who I've never known, miss me?

DAZ also has a problem. Either they can sit back and hope that Hivewire doesn't siphon off more of they're customers, or they can look for ways to expand their market share. So a Poser version of V6 is not all that far-fetched.

I've seen some work done now by some very masterful people on Dawn that makes me want to both buy something and give her another workout.  Hell, if money spent on Dawn makes Daz rethink their strategies than Dawn has been more useful than her work as a rendered figure.

:sound of violins:

Aww...

After the "divorce", they "miss" us - isn't that so sweet of them to think about little ol' us. 

And... to make things even nicer, they'll "pay" us to come back.

Don't you just love their sentiments...

:record scratches:

Okay, sarcasm over!

Sorry folks, just couldn't resist.

J

"While Daz seems to be the usual victim it does not have to figure in title to get someone bashing.  The recent Dawn thread which I regarded as innocent and well meaning showed that when it was locked by a disappointed OP."

There are still two open Dawn-threads at DAZ!

started 08/10: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/26983/

started 08/09: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/26972/

Quote - "While Daz seems to be the usual victim it does not have to figure in title to get someone bashing.  The recent Dawn thread which I regarded as innocent and well meaning showed that when it was locked by a disappointed OP."

There are still two open Dawn-threads at DAZ!

started 08/10: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/26983/

started 08/09: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/26972/

Thanks for the links but I do not go to the Daz site anymore.  The point I was trying to make was that, while the Daz threads tend to get heated and personal on a regular basis it is not the only threads this happens to.  The thread in questrion was on this forum and was locked after a number of threads were deleted as being in-appropriate the main subject being the launch of Dawn and not connected with Daz directly although linked in many other ways.

Forums here would be very tame and boring if it were not for the wealth of opinions, some presented quite forcefully.  I see nothing wrong in a healthy debate and always read with interest opinions that are very different from my own because that I how I learn and understand.  What I dislike is the very personal nature of some responses, surely we can agree to disagree with trying to degrade others.

As to this thread, so far it has gone a lot better than I expected and while I was disappointed with the split I agree with others that it appears to have led to a period of tremendous creativity.  Looking back it has been no bad thing and perhaps we should conentrate on the postitives more than the negatives.

Quote - I like the way Daz still send me Platinium Club emails. Even though I left about 3 years ago, they still keep trying. They even suggested that to stop getting the emails I log into my PC account (that's the one I don't have btw!) and unsubscribe to the emails. It's sort of sweet really, their lack of understanding for a situation :)

They mean your account, not your Platinum Club account (which isn't a thing in its own right anyway). You might, though, find that the unsubscribe option doesn't work - I know a few cases where that has been true - in which case opening a support ticket should get the emails stopped.

I haven't gotten anything from DAZ in a while.  I have a pretty good amount of V4 stuff anyway. Can't use Genesis or Studio at all, even if I wanted to, and some of the stuff that I WOULD like aren't available for Poser or in a Poser format. I have downloaded a few freebies until recently. Then I believe they stopped that practice, so...

Consider yourself lucky.  I had to killfile every damned address they used to get rid of the genesis crap they kept trying to sell a poser only user.  No, dson doesn't work in my computers and no, I'm not going to change the configuration to make them work, at the same time killing other programs that are much more worthy.  Just because they're daz doesn't mean spam isn't still spam.

Doric.

Daz has released a couple of products in the last month that I am quite interested in, but I can no longer tell if I can actually use them in Poser right away, or if they need a DSON importer, or if they need to be converted using DS, or if they can't be converted at all. :(

Quote - Daz has released a couple of products in the last month that I am quite interested in, but I can no longer tell if I can actually use them in Poser right away, or if they need a DSON importer, or if they need to be converted using DS, or if they can't be converted at all. :(

Yes, I find that confusing, too.  It used to be easy to tell before DSON.

Now I look at the tab with the file types, and see if they are the Poser files, or some weird stuff I don't recognize.  :-)

Quote - > Quote - Daz has released a couple of products in the last month that I am quite interested in, but I can no longer tell if I can actually use them in Poser right away, or if they need a DSON importer, or if they need to be converted using DS, or if they can't be converted at all. :(

Yes, I find that confusing, too.  It used to be easy to tell before DSON.

Now I look at the tab with the file types, and see if they are the Poser files, or some weird stuff I don't recognize.  :-)

Ah, makes sense.

The things I want are supposed to come in object form. I'd think that'd be simple to use in Poser. But no. The file types are all DUF.

It doesn't matter. I just checked my account. I have no links to downloads anymore. There is no way to check to see if I've already purchased a product except by going through 10 years of previous orders one by one.

You can't come back from that. I'd say the break-up is final.