First off, before you continue to read, if you don't like what I am going to say, there is a block button.  I have already been blocked by people and I really don't care cause this needs to be said.

First, DAZ is becoming more and more greedy by the day.  And I won't go into details but we all know what that leads to with many.

Second, they continue to push ESG/DEI as we saw with Genesis 9 Model being Androgenous.  Geografts don't work and vendors need to work harder than they should to make content to sell.  And not only that, trying to make a female or male character is like pulling teeth.

If they do not move away from this greedy trend they are doing and have G10 go back to being separate meshes like G2, G3, G8 and even G8.1, DAZ is not going to last another 25 years and THIS is a fact.

Poser continues to gain DAZ users who are sick of the BS.  And Poser is not trying to please a "non existent crowd".   Do I like poser? No, I tried it won't use it again.  However, if they are trying to make it where none of this insanity is seen, I am all for them doing that.

DAZ needs to course correct or they won't be existing.  The amount of people they are trying to cater to won't be enough to keep them afloat.  Look at every single company so far suffering financially catering to ESG/DEI...

I rest my case.

Oh and I will add one final detail:  DAZ software has yet to be optimized after how many years.  So begs the question: where is all the damn money going?

I wholly agree with you. Whoever owns this company sees only money (church group), pardon my pun.

gohanf22 posted at 5:50 AM Thu, 17 April 2025 - #2992401

Second, they continue to push ESG/DEI as we saw with Genesis 9 Model being Androgenous.  

lmao I'm not a fan of the androgynous base for technical reasons but get the fuck out of here with that ~DEI~ bigot bullshit.

Yes, the "DEI" reaction is a little bit over the top. Good grief.

MAGA buzzword of the month. 

From my perspective, if Daz future looks grim, it's because they seem unable to keep their software properties up to date. Maybe Hexagon and Carrara are unnecessary because of Blender. Yet, both do have good qualities and their might have been value in keeping them current. But DS has a bigger problem because of its tight reliance on IRAY and associated dependency on NVIDIA for their big render solution. 

I find IRAY renders often look pretty good without a lot of effort. That's a plus! But there is an issue with a bugged version of IRAY and the fact that we're waiting on the next big release of DS (DS2025, apparently) to get support for the 50x0 cards. Combine this with a relative shortage of 40x0 cards, high price of cards, etc, and it's a problem for the Daz community.

I like to use filament for putting scenes together because of its speed and that it also looks pretty good. I'd like to just use Filament to render because I hate waiting for renders, but the DS Filament implementation is a tiny fraction of what the actual Filament renderer can do. So, that also sucks. 3DL is a leftover in DS - The whole language changed in later versions of the renderer and Daz proved disinterested, unwilling, or perhaps unable to keep 3DL up to date in DS - Not worth the effort, maybe. Blender dispensed with their biased Blender renderer a long time ago, though you can still download an older version of Blender if you really care to use it.

The reliance on NVIDIA tech means the whole Mac market is stuck rendering on CPU - The whole Metal thing is a problem for which Daz has no solution. SImilarly, the AMD GPU people are left in the cold. It is true that AMD graphics cards represent only a tiny fraction of the GPU market, but still... AMD GPUs are useless for IRAY. So where does that leave DS and the Daz market? Even Richard Haseltine admits he's in a bind with respect to his old hardware and the fact that there is no current DS-compatible upgrade path (50x0 cards). I guess we all get to use DS as an export mechanism to Unreal or Blender. Yet that certainly ramps up the technical requirements for using the program. And I'll just admit it: I like using DS to render DS-compatible and old Poser content. It's a wonderful box of toys! I'm just not sure what's going to happen with it in the future.

Ok. I'm done.

I should also mention, a sort of plug-in apocalypse will accompany the Next Big Release. As happened with Poser, progress means old plugins won't work in that future release and it will be on the people who made the plug-ins to make the updates. Some of those people are gone, so those plug-ins won't be updated. Other plug-ins... Maybe not worth the effort? I expect the NBR will have its own new features (and bugs!). It should be fine, after a time. Still, it's not something I look forward to seeing.

Everyone denying that this has nothing to do about ESG/DEI, is part of the problem.

They are linked to an ESG consultancy group.  I did my research and did a video about it.

Gen 10 don't go back to being separate meshes, it is OVER for DAZ.  This so called "Modern Audience" don't exist and it won't be enough to pay the bills.

Lot of DAZ users left already and moved to Poser cause of this insanity.  Poser isn't catering so that is plus on their end.

Also calling me a "Bigot" proves how mentally Ill and Brainwashed you are.

I rest my case...

Torquinox posted at 7:46 AM Fri, 18 April 2025 - #4495044

From my perspective, if Daz future looks grim, it's because they seem unable to keep their software properties up to date. Maybe Hexagon and Carrara are unnecessary because of Blender. Yet, both do have good qualities and their might have been value in keeping them current. But DS has a bigger problem because of its tight reliance on IRAY and associated dependency on NVIDIA for their big render solution. 

I find IRAY renders often look pretty good without a lot of effort. That's a plus! But there is an issue with a bugged version of IRAY and the fact that we're waiting on the next big release of DS (DS2025, apparently) to get support for the 50x0 cards. Combine this with a relative shortage of 40x0 cards, high price of cards, etc, and it's a problem for the Daz community.

I like to use filament for putting scenes together because of its speed and that it also looks pretty good. I'd like to just use Filament to render because I hate waiting for renders, but the DS Filament implementation is a tiny fraction of what the actual Filament renderer can do. So, that also sucks. 3DL is a leftover in DS - The whole language changed in later versions of the renderer and Daz proved disinterested, unwilling, or perhaps unable to keep 3DL up to date in DS - Not worth the effort, maybe. Blender dispensed with their biased Blender renderer a long time ago, though you can still download an older version of Blender if you really care to use it.

The reliance on NVIDIA tech means the whole Mac market is stuck rendering on CPU - The whole Metal thing is a problem for which Daz has no solution. SImilarly, the AMD GPU people are left in the cold. It is true that AMD graphics cards represent only a tiny fraction of the GPU market, but still... AMD GPUs are useless for IRAY. So where does that leave DS and the Daz market? Even Richard Haseltine admits he's in a bind with respect to his old hardware and the fact that there is no current DS-compatible upgrade path (50x0 cards). I guess we all get to use DS as an export mechanism to Unreal or Blender. Yet that certainly ramps up the technical requirements for using the program. And I'll just admit it: I like using DS to render DS-compatible and old Poser content. It's a wonderful box of toys! I'm just not sure what's going to happen with it in the future.

Ok. I'm done.

Oh exactly.  That is another HUGE reason.  Like I said this earlier: where is all the money going?  Cause it clearly is not going back into improving the software.

You don't put money back in to optimizing your software and making sure it runs well, you start having people asking questions on what the F is going on...

Torquinox posted at 8:21 AM Fri, 18 April 2025 - #4495056

I should also mention, a sort of plug-in apocalypse will accompany the Next Big Release. As happened with Poser, progress means old plugins won't work in that future release and it will be on the people who made the plug-ins to make the updates. Some of those people are gone, so those plug-ins won't be updated. Other plug-ins... Maybe not worth the effort? I expect the NBR will have its own new features (and bugs!). It should be fine, after a time. Still, it's not something I look forward to seeing.

Oh I know.  There are some I am worried that I use will no longer work that I love using.  I am hoping some other vendor continues on making a new version of said plugins or something like them...

If I could upvote both of your posts, Torquinox, I would.  Both are WELL said on HUGE ISSUES and Problems with DAZ and what DAZ is soon to face...

and another thing: im not mad. please don't put in the newspaper paper that I got mad.

I got put on ignore. Someone has thin skin. 

 If you put me on ignore, it also blocks your posts to me. So if the above post was to me, I don't see what you said.

Ah I see you now.

This much fuss about polygons and pixels is over the top. THAT is the truth.

Actually know what. I won't give you what you want.

I'll just do the opposite:  Ignore you and just not give you the attention you want.

More enjoyable than blocking.

And that is all I am going to say on that.  If you are not going to be here to have a constructive talk about this issue and rather just bash people instantly to call them leftist or bigots or whatever, than you are not helping fix the problem but being PART of the problem...

DeeceyArt posted at 8:56 AM Sat, 19 April 2025 - #4495086

 If you put me on ignore, it also blocks your posts to me. So if the above post was to me, I don't see what you said.

Ah I see you now.

This much fuss about polygons and pixels is over the top. THAT is the truth.

And if you can't see past your own nose that this is about pushing a message and all the money that they have got over the years is not going back into the program, than you are part of the problem.

You want constructive talk about the issue?

The DAZ Genesis 9 model was made as a base that can be either male or female.   You identify that as being DEI, which is ridiculous. How many Genesis 9 characters and renders do you see that actually appear gender neutral?  Truth: NOT MANY.

And your comment that it is causing users to switch to Poser is also without merit.  Take a look at the galleries and the marketplace.  What is the ratio of Poser to DAZ renders and products?

Your "issue" is a non-issue.  Now, who exactly can't see past their own nose?  To immediately accuse someone of being "leftist" because they disagree with your opinion is pretty sad.

DeeceyArt posted at 9:06 AM Sat, 19 April 2025 - #4495090

You want constructive talk about the issue?

The DAZ model was made as a base that can be either male or female.   You identify that as being DEI, which is ridiculous. How many Genesis 9 characters and renders do you see that actually appear gender neutral?  Truth: NOT MANY.

And your comment that it is causing users to switch to Poser is also without merit.  Take a look at the galleries and the marketplace.  What is the ratio of Poser to DAZ renders and products?

Your "issue" is a non-issue. 

Are you this deft?  Geografts can't work as intended; Male bodies still look more feminine and vice versa.  Only selling point of Gen 9 is that you can make GREAT PORTRAIT renders and that is it.

Gen 9 was a disaster just like Gen 1 and that is why they moved to separated meshes after gen 1.  Why would they go back to the VERY THING they tried once before and failed?  Answer: to pander to a NON EXISTENT AUDIENCE that don't exist and yes they are pandering to the 3DX wierdos is why they did this.

You can deny all you want.  This is a fact.  I did a video about this and I even dug deep into who is funding their company and it went back to an ESG/DEI consultancy group.  May not be SBI, or Blackrock, or Vanguard, but it was an ESG/DEI group.

You can take that to the bank.  I'm not arguing this anymore with you when clearly you are part of the problem and would welcome this change with insanity...

Thanks gohan.

Let's stay civil, please. People use the ignore button for their own reasons.

With regard to thread-starting posts, greed could be a factor in current pricing policies - Difficult to prove!

I'm not fussed about DEI stuff - Artists are a diverse and subversive lot. You get all kinds. Besides, the story of Western art has long been the story of white male lone genius creators. There is plenty of room for other visions and perspectives. The fun part is, we do get a lot of  perspectives in the Daz and Poser communities. It's pretty cool. 

The hope for some people with the single-base G9 mesh was that we'd get more male content, more unisex clothing, more characters developed as males and females. It hasn't really worked out that way. G9 is now broken into feminine and masculine. There is some masculine stuff, but it's drowned by the feminine stuff, same as happens in every Daz figure generation. 

I doubt there is much a G10 figure could add to what we already have. I look at it this way: Every generation of figure adds developmental complexity. Eventually, the figure will be too complex to create for. As it is, only Daz PAs have access to the tools to make fully-realized G9 characters. If G10 is even more complex, then what? That's for the future. 

Torquinox posted at 9:15 AM Sat, 19 April 2025 - #4495092

Thanks gohan.

Let's stay civil, please. People use the ignore button for their own reasons.

With regard to thread-starting posts, greed could be a factor in current pricing policies - Difficult to prove!

I'm not fussed about DEI stuff - Artists are a diverse and subversive lot. You get all kinds. Besides, the story of Western art has long been the story of white male lone genius creators. There is plenty of room for other visions and perspectives. The fun part is, we do get a lot of  perspectives in the Daz and Poser communities. It's pretty cool. 

The hope for some people with the single-base G9 mesh was that we'd get more male content, more unisex clothing, more characters developed as males and females. It hasn't really worked out that way. G9 is now broken into feminine and masculine. There is some masculine stuff, but it's drowned by the feminine stuff, same as happens in every Daz figure generation. 

I doubt there is much a G10 figure could add to what we already have. I look at it this way: Every generation of figure adds developmental complexity. Eventually, the figure will be too complex to create for. As it is, only Daz PAs have access to the tools to make fully-realized G9 characters. If G10 is even more complex, then what? That's for the future. 

Oh I know.  And you're welcome.  Thing is, Gen 9 being androgenous failed as it did with Gen 1.  And no money going back into DAZ is the BIGGEST issue.  Like would I love for gen 10 to be separate meshes? Oh yeah cause then geografts work as intended.  But at the end of the day, DAZ not being optimized and running well as it should be, is the achilles heel.

Torquinox posted at 9:15 AM Sat, 19 April 2025 - #4495092

Thanks gohan.

Let's stay civil, please. People use the ignore button for their own reasons.

With regard to thread-starting posts, greed could be a factor in current pricing policies - Difficult to prove!

I'm not fussed about DEI stuff - Artists are a diverse and subversive lot. You get all kinds. Besides, the story of Western art has long been the story of white male lone genius creators. There is plenty of room for other visions and perspectives. The fun part is, we do get a lot of  perspectives in the Daz and Poser communities. It's pretty cool. 

The hope for some people with the single-base G9 mesh was that we'd get more male content, more unisex clothing, more characters developed as males and females. It hasn't really worked out that way. G9 is now broken into feminine and masculine. There is some masculine stuff, but it's drowned by the feminine stuff, same as happens in every Daz figure generation. 

I doubt there is much a G10 figure could add to what we already have. I look at it this way: Every generation of figure adds developmental complexity. Eventually, the figure will be too complex to create for. As it is, only Daz PAs have access to the tools to make fully-realized G9 characters. If G10 is even more complex, then what? That's for the future. 

My initial response to gohant only said that labeling an androgynous character as DEI was over the top. And being that DEI is currently in the news, yes, it is the MAGA buzzword of the month. For that and other disagreements I was called "part of the problem", "mentally ill", an attention seeker, can't see past my own nose, "daft", and someone who welcomes the change with insanity. All because I disagreed with his opinion. 

The fact is, the androgynous Genesis 9 figure would only be an issue to those who focus on nude renders and animations. If G9 doesn't float your boat, you still have G8 and earlier versions. 

So let's look at things the other way. There are many of us that focus on portraits and "real world" renders. I can sit here and complain all day about the lack of real-world clothing available for any character, and the overabundance of skimp wear and bikinis. But I won't call someone names like mentioned above for disagreeing with me. 

It's time for me to put gohant on ignore. 

Deecey, gotta do what you gotta do! I understand about real-world stuff. There is some out there, though it's often a sexy version of real-world attire. Maybe gotta make your own.