Attached Link: http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altTerrainBuilder/default.htm


Hi all, I've been playing around with terrains in Photoshop for awhile now. Some have you have seen the tutorials. Recently, I needed to be able to control more exactly the contour profiles of a terrain so I created an application to do just that.

You can check it out at the URL listed below. best, Chipp

Looks cool :)

Concept hard for me to grasp. Got to look closer when I have time.

This looks REALLY interesting! Now if E-ON would support TRUE 16 bit data terrain formats you could actually design and model highly detailed sports cars and aircraft in Vue. Of course something like this will take us most of the way there- but people won't get the true glossy smoothness they will want until E-ON makes this 16 bit change. But your great new app will help educate people about this issue- and E-on will then make the change at some point. HEY- they support hi-rez HDR lighting data in Vue 5- so why not hi-rez TERRAIN DATA (like everyone else does!). I think building 3D models as terrains is going to be a BIG THING- once people get the hang of it. In a number of ways, people who don't understand regular modeling programs- might very well find TERRAIN modeling a simplier concept to grasp.

Well... terrain modeling is just a simple way to emulate what Vue is really missing - Displacement Maps :) But I have to hand it to you... your tutorials are excellent and these renders of servers and electrical conduits are exceptional. It is great to see professional quality renders like that done in Vue instead of the usual 3DS Max or Maya. I am going to bookmark them for the backroom if you don't mind...

Attached Link: http://66.70.170.53/Ryan/heightmap/heightmap.html

So... why can't Vue use displacement maps? I thought that they were sort of like reverse Bump Maps. Maybe someone can answer that... In the meantime- here's a free Displacement Map Creator. Just found this via Google- so I haven't tried it yet. Might be fun to try in the Vue Terrain Editor!

Chuck,

Good point about not understanding them. You might try checking out http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altTerrainBuilder/UsingaltTerrainBuilder.htm for a simple example of how they work.

Veritas777,

I'm not so sure Vue doesn't already support 16-bit grayscales as terrains appear smoother when I paste native 16 bit grayscale vs 8-bit. Course it might be my old eyes;-) In anycase, it's obvious a few clicks of the Diffusive button under Erode tab helps smooth things nicely.

Check out this smooth tent map create using altTerrain Builder. The resolution is low at only 256 x 256, but the rendering is pretty smooth.

(from the website)This tent terrain is an example of an object created completely using terrains from altTerrain Builder.

The first profile was used to render terrain A, and the second profile created terrain B. Both are 256 x 256 terrain maps.

Then A was imported into a terrain, followed by importing B and setting the Mixing Mode to Blend, inverting B and rotating it 90 degrees.

A dozen or so pushes of the Diffusive button creates a very smooth surface.

Attached Link: http://www.daz3d.com/support/tutorial/printable.php?id=1211

Hi- back again and found a link to a DAZ Tutorial and using Poser 5's displacement map node. Is there any big technical reason why Vue 5 cannot have a displacement filter-effect? Chipp- my own tests lead me to believe that Vue 5 doesn't support 16 bits. I think you've noted it in your own tutorial on building the HP Machine. I think however you CAN get very smooth surfaces using your software's modeling techniques- but I don't think this is the same as 65,536 levels of gray-scale detail that's in 16 bit data. I think your models look smooth because your software has already "idealized" the data to fit neatly into 255 levels of gray. I'm going to try and talk to E-on about supporting the Terragen TER file format. That's a 16 bit format. If they tell me they can't, or have to re-write the terrain editor to support 16 bit files (which might be the case) then I will know for sure Vue doesn't support 16 bit Grayscale.

Veritas777, Hmmm. Perhaps that is the case. They probably don't support importing 16-bit, (have you tried copy/paste?), but in any case, I believe they represent a higher resolution for terrains internally than 8-bit, otherwise why would the Diffusive filter work so well? I can blur until I'm fuzzy in the face in Pshop, and still see artifacting. But a few repetitions of Diffusive and things are as smooth as a baby's you-know-what. So, perhaps in some sense, we're both right. I'm very interested in knowing more about the subject..and thanks for the great link to the Poser tutorial(another possible market for altTerrain Builder?). Let me know if you hear anything from Vue on the subject. best, Chipp

I have emails into E-On now. Waiting for a response. Reguarding the copy and paste function- In fact, I have tried it from Photoshop 8 with 16 bit data and you get a Vue 5 Inf ERROR message which says something like "Must be 255 levels of grayscale"... TRY IT YOURSELF. Why would they put in an error message like that???

Veritas777 You need to make sure your terrain resolution matches exactly the pixel resolution (width and height) when pasting. I've had no problems pasting Grayscale 16-bit images into Vue. -Chipp

O.K. I had tried a 256 x 256 Grayscale Ramp onto a 256 x 256 Terrain in Vue's Terrain Editor and it did work. But that still doesn't convince me yet that this isn't a re-sampling of 16 Bit to 8 Bit. The ramp I got was still jagged- and while I can hit DIFFUSIVE 4 times at MAX strength to make it look smooth- you can easily do the same thing with 8 bit data as well. I've been able to convert 16 bit data in Photoshop to 8 bit data- going first to 16 BIT RGB data- then taking that to 8 BIT RGB data- and then importing that into the Terrain Editor- with the same results. It actually looks pretty good (see my thread lower down on MEGA Terrains). Keep in mind, smoothing DEGRADES terrain data- if you have lots of interesting features- and you smooth them out- you have something that looks like a semi-melted ice cream. When you import 16 bit Grayscale data into Terragen- no smoothing is required. It looks BOTH detailed AND Smooth. I still think Vue is converting the data to 8 bit- probably in an RGB 8 bit space- splitting the scale and not using the third 8 bit space. But while better-this still introduces noise artifacts from what I've seen.

O.K.- I did something REALLY DRASTIC and read Vue 5 Infinite Manual- the section on importing DEMS- and they state in there that V5I supports 16 bit DEM data AND the importation of 16 BIT data in the TGA format. I did originally try using the TGA format but have done most of my terrain bitmap tests with TIF and PSD. I'm going back and try some tests with TGA again and see how they look. It MIGHT BE that TGA is the only bitmap format that E-ON is currently supporting for correct 16 Bit Terrain data. I was not happy with my original DEM imports into V5I because, even though you can do Multi-DEM imports, a lot of DEM data is unfortunately damaged with joint lines, "WALLS" etc. This is why I went with the BITMAP method. So converting SEAMLESS BIL data (which are free of nearly all seam and wall problems) and importing those into the Terrain Editor via 16 BIT TGA is what I'm trying now...

Chip, i purchased your altTerrain Builder product through Paypal and never received an email from you on how to download it. This was weeks ago. Have emailed twice to the contact email on your web site and had zero responses. Checked my Outlook 2003 junk mail folder and nothing from you in there. What gives?

Joe,
I'm sorry, I don't have any email I can identify from you, but I do have a record indicating a purchase, and an email cc'ed me with the registration info. I've forwarded it to your IM area.

So sorry for the delay.

Please contact support@altuit.com if you have any further questions/problems.

best, Chipp

Thanks for the very quick response Chipp, much appreciated. Sorry to rattle your cage here in the public forum, but the emails weren't working - don't understand why. "Anyway, all's well that ends well."