Can anybody tell us authoritatively what is happening about old threads with offsite links that were legal (or at least tolerated) when they were originally posted ?

I've read (and even posted myself) about threads being locked because of old offsite links, but I'm now wondering about this.

N.B. I still strongly believe that the blanket ban on offsite links to 'competitor' sites is totally the wrong approach.

As far as I know the staff are not actively seeking out old threads containing links and since the introduction of the rule I have not heard of or been involved in any threads being locked from the past for this reason, this would have to go through the normal procedure which would be hard for me to miss. My advice would be to not comment on them as doing so would bring them out of hiding and unfortunately make them current :-). It is not a blanket ban on offsite links just not to land on a competing marketplace and they have to be known established websites. You can send someone to Daz or Smith Micro etc for a tutorial or info sheet, YouTube etc. All they are asking is it doesn't land on a swimsuit for a G3 female at Daz for example.

Thanks Johnny, that makes a lot of sense, but stills leaves a lot of questions.

Your comment that staff aren't seeking out threads and locking them seems true. I'm inclined now to believe that the idea that threads were being locked because of offsite links was down to one specific case (I See Why People Complain Here) and a frustration in certain quarters (I include myself in that) over the New Direction With Freestuff Area. That view's reinforced by the fact that locking a thread because it contains old posts with offsite links would serve no purpose that I can see, except as a vain attempt to consign it to oblivion. The offsite links would still work, and although the thread couldn't be bumped there's nothing to stop a new thread being created with a link to the old thread.

Your suggestion about not commenting on specific threads is good advice. However, I'm specifically using the thread I linked to in the OP as a sort of acid test.

I used the phrase 'blanket ban' because that's what this bit of the Terms Of Service - "Additionally, offsite linking to other marketplaces or freestuff sites are not allowed within the forum, gallery, or forum signatures. For example: Links to competing stores like Daz3d.com, RuntimeDNA.com, etc are not allowed. However, links to non-competing stores like Etsy.com or Ebay.com are acceptable." sounds like to me. If we accept that it's not actually a blanket ban, and that there's an element of admin/moderator discretion (which historically has always been the case, whether officially sanctioned or not) then your distinction between a link to a marketplace product and a link to a tutorial/info sheet is clear - that example is the black and white as it were.

But what I'm really concerned about is the huge swathe of grey inbetween. If you're amenable I'd like to go through a few specific examples of offsite links from the thread I linked to in the OP, and maybe a couple of other old threads of mine ?

Cheers, Pete

You can be sure the staff have better things to do with their time than be trawling through all the old threads looking for offsite links. You are welcome to ask any questions you like Pete

Also, if there were a link that needed removing, we would simply remove the link and not lock the thread because of it.

Thanks Johnny/Jeff, those are the sort of logical, sensible comments I was hoping for.

So getting into that grey area I mentioned.

The two posts I made in the OP-linked thread on 4th April 2014 (this is the link to the first of them) are a good example. Both have offsite links to DAZ* - specifically to threads I started in the DAZ Script Developer forum to try and find solutions to problem I was having at that point.

Clearly not at the 'tutorial/info sheet' end of the offsite link scale, but definitely nowhere near the 'marketplace product' end.

So whereabouts on the scale would you put them ? Are they permissible ?

*Note: Due to changes to the DAZ forum the links now go to the correct thread, but the wrong post

That would be fine if it is problem solving or helping another member with an issue Again what they don't want is your link to land smack in the middle of a competing marketplace but it is not Renderosity's intention to crush the ability for members to help each other out and solve problems. Quite often there might be a issue with a update or a step by step guide to fix an issue relating to any software and the company involved will post the solution in their own forum. Or like in your example a member may have gone through an ordeal and had it solved and should point their fellow member to what fixed it for them. I would put this on the scale of education/assistance/info the same would apply if the process was on YouTube etc.

Thanks again Johnny, that's the answer I was hoping for. Obviously it would be case by case and down to the discretion of the mods.

My next example is on the face of it a clear case of "no, that's not allowed", but I'd like to argue that under certain circumstances it should be allowed. The situation is that a post contains a link to a freebie in the Renderosity FreeStuff and an offsite link to an alternative download location.

The initial post on that thread is a good example. It has two download links for the freebie in question: the first in Renderosity FreeStuff; the second, an alternative download at ShareCG.

(N.B. the Renderosity FreeStuff link no longer works because I've removed all my freebies from Renderosity. But for the purposes of this question please imagine that I hadn't removed them, and that both links still worked)

Renderosity is one of the few places where you have to be logged in to view the threads (I believe that's true?). Note also that at ShareCG you have to be logged in to download anything.

So anybody reading the post with the two download links would already be logged in at Renderosity and would be presented with two options for the download. I would assume that, all things being equal*, most people would use the Renderosity FreeStuff download.

If there was a problem with the Renderosity FreeStuff download (as has happened once in the past when a FreeStuff item of mine vanished for no apparent reason) then the alternative download link comes into play.

So does this argument hold any water - would alternative download links like this be permitted ?

*the problem is that they are not. (<==that's supposed to be underlined and in italics)

I am not sure that a second option external link in case of emergencies would make the grade under the new ruling 3DCheapskate.

LPR001 posted at 8:03PM Tue, 05 April 2016 - #4264264

I am not sure that a second option external link in case of emergencies would make the grade under the new ruling 3DCheapskate.

It is funny though that Renderosity does not mine being linked to from other Stores Forums right? If you do not allow linking of that kind you should say: NO linking to Renderosity from Daz3d Forums, Runtimedna Forums...

Those Forums allow linking * which is great * so you get all the benefit but give nothing in return? Petra

LPR001 posted at 7:57PM Wed, 06 April 2016 - #4264264

I am not sure that a second option external link in case of emergencies would make the grade under the new ruling 3DCheapskate.

Sadly that's also the answer I expected. And I was going to say that this make it a blanket ban on links to ShareCG - but of course you can upload tutorials at ShareCG. So a link to tutorial at ShareCG might be acceptable ? (But then again Renderosity hosts tutorials as well as freebies, so (following the "New Direction With FreeStuff" logic) why would they allow a link to an offsite tutorial when it can be uploaded here instead ?

Anyway, back to another type of link from that thread.

This post has a link to my blog. It's mainly a cross-reference for my own use.

I like cross-referencing with hyperlinks. It's so much easier than having to search through browser bookmarks or forum topic list, or doing a google search. Hyperlinks are really what the web was built for !

So once again,would this type of link be allowed ?

Raindroptheelf posted at 8:20PM Wed, 06 April 2016 - #4264307

LPR001 posted at 8:03PM Tue, 05 April 2016 - #4264264

I am not sure that a second option external link in case of emergencies would make the grade under the new ruling 3DCheapskate.

It is funny though that Renderosity does not mine being linked to from other Stores Forums right? If you do not allow linking of that kind you should say: NO linking to Renderosity from Daz3d Forums, Runtimedna Forums...

Those Forums allow linking * which is great * so you get all the benefit but give nothing in return? Petra

Renderosity's approach to 'community' nowadays seems to me to be following the DPRK handbook... ;o)

Still waiting for a reply about links to a personal blog...

Anyway, next type of link - I have a few long-running projects related to my freebies, and I used to have ongoing threads both at Renderosity and DAZ.

DAZ has always been my preferred choice, since there's no timeout on editing posts. Yes, I know there are valid reasons for the edit timeout here at Renderosity, but the lack of any timeout over at DAZ means that I can keep the first post up to date with the latest information and useful links.

Compare this (OP of the DAZ ongoing thread) with this (OP of the Renderosity ongoing thread). Unusually for me I didn't (I think) actually cross-link from the Renderosity thread (started April 2014) until this post in April 2015 - I usually crosslink in the first or second post.

Which of those two OPs is the most helpful, useful, and informative to a user ?

**So the question is would links like this to ongoing development threads in the DAZ forum be allowed ?

(and don't forget the previous unanswered question about links to a personal blog )**

Sorry cheapskate my ebots are not being very helpful. In answer to your question links to personal websites and blogs are no longer accepted so I would assume that your blog would be out. It is a tough call on the timeout concerning forums some allow editing and others have the time. Although I do feel this one could be twice the length as I reckon it starts when you start typing so if you craft a masterpiece it can fail when you hit Add Comment. However if any member gets stuck and has made a mistake they can contact a moderator for assistance.

No problem, I know all about the ebot problems - I don't seem to get any now. I requested increases in the timeout for posts on two separate occasions over the past year - nothing. And the sort of mods I make to posts are easy for me to do, but trying to explain them to somebody else is another matter - I tried a few times with very helpful and cooperative mods - in my case it's not worth the additional effort, but for other folks it may be.

Your answer on the blogs is once again,sadly, what I expected.

I'd also be interested in an answer to [the question about links to ongoing project threads on other sites](Place link URL herehttps://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2901266&#msg4264636), although I reckon I know the answer...

Give me a few days on the project thread cheapy it does appear to be a curveball.

Okey dokey...

Okay Cheapskate

If it was a genuine "project" ie script/prop building and the link went to an accepted site then cross referencing would be fine. The freebie part would be where it gets a little untidy for the future but I can't see why we would rip the rug out from under you on the long running thread for this particular project as it was going well before the rule come in and would probably mess things up on both sides for you and that is not what was intended by the new rule. So in future it would be the "Known established websites" and it doesn't have a competing marketplace wrapped around it. It is up to the mods and coords to use their discretion to whether something might be in breach of the TOS and even then they bring it in to be evaluated so it would be on a case by case basis. If you are unsure of anything feel free to send me a sitemail and I will take a look and see if you will get away with it. I don't think Renderosity want to stand in the way of product development and members bouncing ideas off each other.

Thanks Johnny for all the answers - the subject of links is a bit clearer to me now.

As far as my old threads are concerned I'm no longer worried about them being locked or the links disappearing, and that was the main point of this thread "Offsite links that were legal (or at least tolerated) when they were posted"

As far as the future's concerned the simplest solution is to avoid the hassle, and Renderosity has been almost more hassle than it's worth for me for the past couple of years (to back up that statement - https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?search=&expression=advanced&older_age=1&older_units=day&newer_age=&newer_units=day&adv_department=12357&username=3dcheapskate ). I'll still be asking (and maybe helping answer) questions on some of the technical forums, and maybe adding very short posts/threads with no links when I release new stuff.

Cheers, Pete

In my everyday process of asking questions on the most appropriate forums I've come across another example where an offsite link would be helpful.

I ran into a problem with the Poser material room. Only RDNA and CGbytes have specific forums for the Poser material room. Bagginsbill has said that he's avoiding RDNA, but he's at CGbytes (in a 19th March post near the bottom of page 9 of the "Underwater Submarine" thread in the Poser forum here at Renderosity). So CGbytes was the logical place to start the thread.

I got to a certain stage in my investigations where I decided it was worth posting my findings at RDNA and here at Renderosity too (the "PP2014: Odd Refract Node Effect At Water Plane/Wall Intersection" thread in the Poser forum here). A direct link from the OP of that thread to the original CGbytes thread would be very helpful, but I didn't put one in. And of course, by the time I'd decided to add the link the edit timeout on the OP had gone.