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Subject: Question for the Render Guru's here


rokket ( ) posted Sun, 17 January 2016 at 1:20 AM

Cyborghead.png

Ok. Last render. It's Sunday evening here. I am about to put all my ducks in a row and start the second draft tomorrow evening.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Sun, 17 January 2016 at 1:21 AM

But on a serious note: do you think she needs a weapon or something on her waist or hips? Looks kind of barren there.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Sun, 17 January 2016 at 5:07 AM

cyborg gun.png

She now has a cool gunbelt (which is also rigged) and is carrying a Glock19. So now I have no more excuses. I'll be on less frequently for a few days until I knock out the script. There are a lot of changes coming.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Mon, 18 January 2016 at 4:52 AM

Galaxy.png

The opening panel. Not taken into comic form yet.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Mon, 18 January 2016 at 6:29 AM · edited Mon, 18 January 2016 at 6:30 AM

cyborg deactivated.png

I got stuck on the script so I did a render to help me visualize the scene. Not bad, but I can improve it.

Notice that her head parts are not glowing. And I made that table she is mounted to. The rest are props I already had in Poser.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Mon, 18 January 2016 at 7:15 PM

I changed the format of my story to a first person narrative. I am kind of liking this style, but I won't know if it's a keeper until I start putting the renders together....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


quietrob ( ) posted Mon, 18 January 2016 at 11:05 PM

rokket posted at 8:20PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4249652

Have you ever posed a figure, gotten the lighting exactly the way you wanted it, tweaked the materials to perfection, spend 3 hours waiting for it to render, only to notice that you effed the pose up?

I just did that. Rendering again.....

I'll start here. The answer is yes. The worst offender for me is poke through. I hate it! Of course you being a dynamic type of guy you won't get any poke through but it's always there in conforming clothing. What I also do is keep a library of poses uses in any scene. Partial poses too. Comics and real life we all reuse the same poses. Why re-invent your wheel?

This version of her seems more human. I can't wait to see her in action as well as interacting with the rest. You mentioned she was more machine than girl. I was wondering if that would affect her emotions or lack there of? With Blaze having off and and on emotions, I'd love to see the two of them converse. By the way, I'm sure you've seen Ghost in the Shell. The cyborg major is all cyborg including her brain which gets her essence passed into each new incarnation of her as her body gets throttled. One last question regarding the Cyborg. How is she powered? A couple of things to think about as you bring her up to speed.

Hmm, Nothing much to those planets but you know...Jupiter looks the same and there is a whole lot of partying going on there!

Narration. The days of "And we join our heroes at the white house!" are rather over. It makes sense in a book but telling or thinking by a character is, I think, a better way to go.



rokket ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 12:14 AM

When Sonic finds her, she is connected to the table and powered down. There are machines I am modeling right now to take the place of that dated computer bank in the background. But you do know that the human body generates electricity, right? That's what keeps our heart beating, and the impulses that travel to our brain are little electric currents. Her brain has been modified to feed her exoskeleton. The only real human part of her is her body. The modifications to her brain took out the parts of her that feel emotion, pain and everything else associated with being human. There is a CPU in there that is actually an AI unit. So she's mostly machine. We won't see any Robocop tendencies of reliving the days of being a human with her.

John Sr. was working on her until his death, when the project was terminated. But the government doesn't know she wasn't destroyed like they ordered her to be.

And one spoiler: the reason Sr. couldn't destroy her is that she is his niece. She had a terminal illness and volunteered to be the test subject.

It just keeps getting deeper...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


quietrob ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 12:20 AM

You think casting is done?? Oh...oh no.

You don't need faces but you need a variation in clothing for crowd. Hmm, no Henchmen but there are workers of every sort isn't there? Just a headsup. One technique for crowd and subject is to make the crowd entirely one color like gray or brown, I mean clothes, skin and hair and have your subject fully colored so that your subject stands out. Well your script will cover that and you'll have to respond.



rokket ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 1:36 AM · edited Tue, 19 January 2016 at 1:44 AM

Yeah, I know. There are resources out there for crowd scenes. There are low poly figures that will work for distance shots and stuff like that. I'll have to see what I can get my hands on.

The geneology of the Forester family:

Grandfather Arthur William Forester

Had 2 sons and 1 daughter

Sons: Jonathon and Sebastian

Daughter: Rose

Jonathon had 1 son: Jonathon Jr.

Sebastian had 1 daughter: Emma

The cyborg is Emma Forester...

I won't have to cast the rest of the family. They will be mentioned, but conveniently not in the country or already dead.

Emma is presumed dead, which is why her father is on a journey to find peace with himself. He blames himself for her death, even though it was from an incurable disease. So he is off soul searching. This happens about 2 years prior to the big explosion that creates Green Lightning. So as the story begins, we won't know anything about it because John himself knows nothing about the truth. His father dies, so he has to take the company earlier than he expected. And after the big fight and the lab where Emma was kept is exposed, Sonic finds her first because Blaze flew Green Lightning and herself out of the area before the first responders could get there.

When Sonic confronts Green Lightning next, it will throw John for a loop because first, he thought Sonic was dead. And second, he will recognize Emma. So he will be seeing two enemies he thought were dead.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 1:55 AM

meanwhile.png



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rokket ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 1:55 AM

And to bring Green Lightning up to snuff, during the 5 years he will be searching for Blaze, his powers will also increase. We already know he will attain flight, but he will also get much, much stronger. And his healing powers will accelerate.

He also learns how to fight. A skill he will need to fend off the cyborg. She was developed as a super soldier. She can outrun a cheetah, lift a school bus and her body was programmed to be able to do the Israeli martial art known as Krav Maga. Look it up. It's bad ass...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 1:56 AM

EldritchCellar posted at 11:56PM Mon, 18 January 2016 - #4250069

meanwhile.png

Friggin' AWESOME!!!!! LOL!!!!

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 1:57 AM

beeyatch.png

...was going to say. You need more male characters. As it is now GL seems like grand pimp overlord on the planet of servile women.



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EldritchCellar ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 2:22 AM

...Just something that might not have occured to you. Sometimes it's easy to lose an objective perspective on something that you're working on. I just noticed that you have GL surrounded by women with no other males. It's not much of a leap for an outsider to recontextualize these things. I know its more of a content issue in this case, but definitely a perspective to consider.



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EldritchCellar ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 2:52 AM · edited Tue, 19 January 2016 at 2:59 AM

Want to point out though that I graduated from an extremely liberal art school in San Francisco, so I'm accutely aware of objectification and other such things in art. Or at least I was made accutely aware of it via indoctrination and critical training. Most of the imagery I see in the galleries here would have gotten an artist a little blanket party by irate lesbian feminists at that school. Lol. I play with the idea of women/object/male gaze a little in my own art. I like to think of it as "womanizing an object" as opposed to "objectifying a woman". The fetishization of the inanimate, or with Poser; the potential of the animate. Probably why there's so much of that kind of imagery with male Poser artists. Their, ummm, poseable. Lol. Yes, yes "realistic bending" wink wink. But that all probably sounds like meaningless gobbledygook to folks round here. Ok. Back to rigging. Looks like it's coming along Rokket.



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rokket ( ) posted Tue, 19 January 2016 at 4:06 AM

Yeah, taken out of context, I see your meaning. I am having issues with the fact that I am pretty sparse on male characters that are worth a crap in my runtime. I will be using Simon, Ryan and Rex all at one point, but for right now I am concentrating on the main characters. I don't have much in the way of renders for Sonic because I don't want to give away too much of the plot. If I map it all out here, who'd read it?

I will pay a lot more attention to how I am setting up those scenes in the future, you can bet that...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Wed, 20 January 2016 at 9:16 AM · edited Wed, 20 January 2016 at 9:17 AM

cyborg deactivated.png

Revamped scene with my models (and a couple I already had). I changed the table. I didn't like the last one.

The script is coming along pretty nicely. I have already rewritten a few scenes more than once. I was giving away too much too soon. Kind of like I am doing here, right?

Bedtime!!!!

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


quietrob ( ) posted Wed, 20 January 2016 at 6:40 PM · edited Wed, 20 January 2016 at 6:42 PM

rokket posted at 4:32PM Wed, 20 January 2016 - #4250066

Yeah, I know. There are resources out there for crowd scenes. There are low poly figures that will work for distance shots and stuff like that. I'll have to see what I can get my hands on.

The geneology of the Forester family:

Grandfather Arthur William Forester

Had 2 sons and 1 daughter

Sons: Jonathon and Sebastian

(One thing I always liked about Sherlock Holmes and Inuyasha, two radically different genre's. The older brother is much much cooler. It makes any appearence by them special)

Daughter: Rose

Jonathon had 1 son: Jonathon Jr.

Sebastian had 1 daughter: Emma

The cyborg is Emma Forester...

I won't have to cast the rest of the family. They will be mentioned, but conveniently not in the country or already dead.

Emma is presumed dead, which is why her father is on a journey to find peace with himself. He blames himself for her death, even though it was from an incurable disease. So he is off soul searching. This happens about 2 years prior to the big explosion that creates Green Lightning. So as the story begins, we won't know anything about it because John himself knows nothing about the truth. His father dies, so he has to take the company earlier than he expected. And after the big fight and the lab where Emma was kept is exposed, Sonic finds her first because Blaze flew Green Lightning and herself out of the area before the first responders could get there.

When Sonic confronts Green Lightning next, it will throw John for a loop because first, he thought Sonic was dead. And second, he will recognize Emma. So he will be seeing two enemies he thought were dead.

****You speak as if they are to be enemies when aren't they family? If they are, it makes the betrayal even deeper. Who do you stand with? How far would you go in battle? ** ** Regarding design. I was told never throw away anything nor fall in love with anything. Frazetta himself found it difficult at times to say, "Good enough.". One thing that Marvel seems to have over DC is that some characters have different outfits. So even after Cyborgia is published, you can add some circuits to her or make whatever changes you want. Golden Girl and Blaze really seem finalized in my mind.



quietrob ( ) posted Wed, 20 January 2016 at 6:59 PM

rokket posted at 4:44PM Wed, 20 January 2016 - #4250081

Yeah, taken out of context, I see your meaning. I am having issues with the fact that I am pretty sparse on male characters that are worth a crap in my runtime. I will be using Simon, Ryan and Rex all at one point, but for right now I am concentrating on the main characters. I don't have much in the way of renders for Sonic because I don't want to give away too much of the plot. If I map it all out here, who'd read it?

I will pay a lot more attention to how I am setting up those scenes in the future, you can bet that...

Who would read it? Me!

It's true. 3D IS skewed toward hot females and you will need males to offset the pure population. For my purposes, I introduced a young male godling, the first born in thousands of years, a traitor turned knight, a hentai gardner who can broadcast his thoughts to the one person who finds him offensive, various husbands with virtues and faults and others like an ambitious prime minister. You'll need balance or you'll end up with the planet filled with servile women (which is an actual planet in my universe). Perhaps that's something you won't have to worry about as while your story starts in space, it's pretty much an Earth based story. Still Ryan, Rex and Simon are a good start for your gene pool.

You don't have M4, right?



rokket ( ) posted Wed, 20 January 2016 at 7:16 PM

No, I don't have M4. I had V4, as you know and got rid of her. Too much work to get anything out of her. Dawn takes a bit to get her functional too, but she's still nice to work with. I have a couple face morphs for her, so I can use her in different roles.

As far as family, remember, Emma essentially died. The cyborg implants in her brain have wiped away her complete personality and memories. The only parts of the brain that are still functional are the ones needed to keep her body alive. So in a sense, she is the enemy because Sonic warps her perception of the reality.

In the opening of that scene, when Sonic finds the door leading to this chamber, he finds a video message that John Sr left for his son. It explains what happened to Emma and how it was against his principles, but an unknown clause in the government contract forced his hand. I may or may not go with the idea that her father, Sebastian knew about it.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Thu, 21 January 2016 at 3:44 AM

Planet of Servile Women © Gary Stocker 2016



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rokket ( ) posted Thu, 21 January 2016 at 4:06 AM

EldritchCellar posted at 2:06AM Thu, 21 January 2016 - #4250473

Planet of Servile Women © Gary Stocker 2016

LOL!!!

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 7:57 AM

new cyborg.png

I don't think this one qualified as servile. Well, maybe in a twisted sort of way....

I remodeled the table and monitoring station. I tried to UV map it and it looked like a bird cage someone dropped into the grand canyon. I added control edges and brought the whole model down to less than 2000 polygons. I UV mapped it and textured it again. Now I am done playing with those props. I have to create the old electronics factory now. The outside won't be too hard. The interior will be some work...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 8:07 AM

I am stopping at the end of each scene I am writing and creating scene markers identifying who and what are in each scene. I check Poser for anything I may already have. What I don't have I am modeling. I want everything modeled and ready to go when I start the renders so I don't have long periods of time between episodes when this thing finally goes live.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 11:12 AM

Good job on fixing up the props with the loops... they looked terrible before but I was like "I aint sayin nothin".



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rokket ( ) posted Fri, 22 January 2016 at 2:17 PM

EldritchCellar posted at 12:14PM Fri, 22 January 2016 - #4250635

Good job on fixing up the props with the loops... they looked terrible before but I was like "I aint sayin nothin".

I saw it. You can tell you screwed the pooch when you can see all those artifacts in the render. I cheated to make the hard edges and it backfired on me. Instead of putting in control edges I was using the inset command. The UV map was the second indicator. I've seen spaghetti that was easier to untangle.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Sat, 23 January 2016 at 3:00 AM

The genealogy of the Forester family: (Updated)

Grandfather Arthur William Forester

Had 2 sons and 1 daughter

Sons: Jonathon Arthur and Sebastian Henry

Daughter: Emily Rose

Jonathon married Susan Ellison

Jonathon had 1 son: Jonathon Jr.

Sebastian married Helen Thomas

Sebastian had 1 daughter: Emma

Sebastian had a son out of wedlock. He was having an affair with his nanny, Lei Sung Hong.

Sebastian never knew about his son. But Lei Sung told her son who is father is.

Sebastian was a silent partner with his brother and Forester Industries. He helped Jonathon to finance a new building on the compound devoted to R&D. Emma was under this new building....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Sat, 23 January 2016 at 4:21 AM

family.png

I am going to use this render as a family portrait. At one point, Green Lightning tries to jog Emma's memory with this picture. She doesn't respond to it obviously.

The mother is P6 Jessi with some time in the face room. The father is P8 Ryan, same face room. You can see how badly his shirt fits him. This is one of the main reasons I don't like conforming clothing. I could fix it, but why should I spend all that time messing with the joints and getting frustrated when I can run a cloth sim and the end results are much better?

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Tue, 26 January 2016 at 4:21 AM

helmet WIP.png

I have Dusk now. I don't know what I am going to do with this costume. Maybe nothing. But I have him available for a character now.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Wed, 27 January 2016 at 4:03 AM

green lightning.png

The last redesign. This is the mask/helmet/cowl I intended from the beginning. I just wasn't able to pull it off until now. In a way, I gotta thank Hivewire and Dusk for this.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Thu, 28 January 2016 at 5:04 AM

If anyone is looking for me, I'll be at Hivewire. Same user name. Not much going on around here to keep me here. I am tired of talking to myself....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


hborre ( ) posted Thu, 28 January 2016 at 8:05 AM

Come on, Rokket, give us a chance. We have real lives also which doesn't give us much time to respond. On that note, love the costumes. They are rather unique in style and function.


rokket ( ) posted Thu, 28 January 2016 at 8:21 AM

I am trying to be unique...

Yeah, I know. People have lives. I guess I was just used to the heavy traffic that used to be here. I am about ready to start the comic. I have to talk to the wife about buying a license for Comic Life 3...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


hborre ( ) posted Thu, 28 January 2016 at 1:08 PM

Good luck.


rokket ( ) posted Thu, 28 January 2016 at 7:12 PM

Thanks. I think she will fold. It's not a lot of money.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 11:17 AM

See you all on the other side. Renderosity just isn't viable any longer. They have managed to fix the forums until they are completely broken. I am going to move all my freebies to another site. They will be gone from here in the next couple days. No one is downloading them anyhow.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


hborre ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 12:48 PM

Keep me posted where you wind up. I still show great interest in what you create.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 2:04 PM · edited Fri, 05 February 2016 at 2:06 PM

Try ShareCG rokket... it seems like the Alamo of Poser freebies, plus it's got all kinds of account options, a portfolio, and you can add a bunch of promos at whatever size. The place is kinda strange though. There's no wait on uploading your freebie, no size restriction as far as I can tell, and a very vague FAQ and TOS. My most recent freebie has a promo with nudity (not the primary promo) and for some reason that image is being featured on their front page scroll... I didn't pick it. They just arbitrarily chose the "with nudity" image. Guess they can't flag me for TOS violation, if their even is one... They picked the image! Lol. Weird. I'll look for you over there. I think the place is friggin great.



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rokket ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 5:53 PM

I have an account at ShareCG, so yes, I will upload my stuff there. I am hanging out at Hivewire at the moment. Very small community but very active. The site was hacked and they just recently got back online. I will probably start going to that other Poser site. You know the one. BB keeps mentioning it....

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 6:34 PM · edited Fri, 05 February 2016 at 6:43 PM

I don't really post at DNA anymore. Not really sure why I post here to tell you the truth. I feel ya on the whole ignored thing, but... We're all really just strangers tripping off on our internet trip. Lol. Me Me Meeeeeeeeeeee.

She you at ShareCG by the Sheshore. Try not to upload anything when I have a recent upload on the roster. Lol. I'm kidding.

Evil laughter. 11402685_910127875719205_5389768495433645165_n.jpg



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rokket ( ) posted Fri, 05 February 2016 at 9:48 PM

First, that is an absolutely cool pic.

Second, I am not sure about hanging out at RDNA either. I have had an account there as long as I've been here. But I have like, 4 posts over there. I usually only go there when someone links a thread on here. But I will be over there a lot since it looks like all the knowledge that used to be here has migrated.

I'll probably post all my stuff up one after the other until they are all there. I will have to download it from here and store it in a folder. That way I avoid having to repack it all. I guess I better get some renders done for promo images.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 2:36 AM

I downloaded all my stuff and deleted it. While I was in the mood I also deleted my gallery. I moved the best of those to Deviant Art. The rest are digital history. I deleted some of them because they were early attempts with loads of mistakes that I won't release on the world again. But I kept the best of those to upload at ShareCG. I have to create a bunch of promo pics, so I have to unzip these files and import them into Poser. I will be busy and probably offline for the next week or so.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 2:55 AM

You have stuff going way back. Should be an intetesting experience looking over your past work in such a way.

I wouldn't have deleted those things. I find I regret deleting things down the road, it's nice to keep them if only for nostalgia's sake. I shouldn't talk though... I just deleted a bunch of old things I had on my drive, mostly custom morphs for v4. I could redo them easily enough I guess, but with some things it's best just to move forward.



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rokket ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 2:59 AM

I won't regret it. If anything, I'd remodel them now that I clue what I am doing.

Right now I am modeling the costume Daisy Ridley wore on Star Wars The Force Awakens. I have most of it finished, but I have to remodel the tunic she wears because I got it all wrong. The pics are on Hivewire and Deviant Art now.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


rokket ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 3:01 AM

Rey update.png

Screw it. I'll post it here.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


EldritchCellar ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 3:12 AM · edited Sat, 06 February 2016 at 3:13 AM

Cool. Haven't seen it yet. I got to get some modeling done before I head off to work this morning. Talk to you later...

Get a new sky backdrop fer christsakes! ;)



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rokket ( ) posted Sat, 06 February 2016 at 3:14 AM · edited Sat, 06 February 2016 at 3:15 AM

Yeah, I'll probably be around here somewhere for a couple more hours.

I see what you mean. Every pic I post is using that as a default. Sometimes I throw in some buildings, but mostly....

I'll use the backdrop in Poser used for 'glamour' shots...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


quietrob ( ) posted Tue, 09 February 2016 at 8:28 PM

rokket posted at 6:27PM Tue, 09 February 2016 - #4250613

I am stopping at the end of each scene I am writing and creating scene markers identifying who and what are in each scene. I check Poser for anything I may already have. What I don't have I am modeling. I want everything modeled and ready to go when I start the renders so I don't have long periods of time between episodes when this thing finally goes live.

You're going to have quite a studio there. Every item unique. When I get an item from the marketplace, I like that it's a bit more obscure or not to everyone's liking. What can be more unique than making it yourself?



rokket ( ) posted Tue, 09 February 2016 at 8:44 PM

quietrob posted at 6:42PM Tue, 09 February 2016 - #4254187

rokket posted at 6:27PM Tue, 09 February 2016 - #4250613

I am stopping at the end of each scene I am writing and creating scene markers identifying who and what are in each scene. I check Poser for anything I may already have. What I don't have I am modeling. I want everything modeled and ready to go when I start the renders so I don't have long periods of time between episodes when this thing finally goes live.

You're going to have quite a studio there. Every item unique. When I get an item from the marketplace, I like that it's a bit more obscure or not to everyone's liking. What can be more unique than making it yourself?

Yeah, it's kind of nice. My runtime will be huge, and it will be mostly my stuff! I have downloaded quite a few buildings and such because I don't really want to try to model them. Although I am pretty sure I can do it now. I just have to look at how they did it, and I'll give it a go.

Time to eat. I answered your site mail...

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


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