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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2022 May 23 10:44 am)


Subject: Antonia - Opinions?


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:18 AM · edited Mon, 23 May 2022 at 12:10 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

file_416397.jpg

Some of you might seen her in my gallery. Antonia is an original human model I've been working on - with interruptions - for the last three years or so. The initial motivation was probably my frustration with the Poser characters available at the time. This made me turn to ZBrush and then Wings3D and experiment with character modeling.

Long story short - I think the geometry is close to being finished. She's rigged for Poser, although there's still a lot of fine-tuning to be done on the joint setups. Once I've finished the teeth and maybe done some more small fixes, I'll UV-map her and... well, what exactly?

See, the thing is, I'd be more than happy for people to have her, make lovely pictures and create content for her, some of which I might be able to use. But I have no ambitions to be a merchant, let alone invest all the hard work that would turn her into a product that might have the slightest chance to compete with the Victorias of this world. Actually, if Victoria 4 had been around in late 2005, I might have just bought her and never had the experience of 'rolling my own'.

Now, this is where - possibly - you guys come in. I can see myself doing the UV map and finishing the rigging as best I can, then put her up somewhere on the web as one of a million free item. If I'm lucky, maybe people will like her and make additional content for her. But, if some of the talented people on here take a liking to her, then maybe - just maybe - we could work together and make her really awesome.

Anyway, this thread is for critiques, comments, suggestions, offers of collaborations, strategical advice and just plain "Gimme, gimme!!!" shouts.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


FVerbaas ( ) posted Thu, 17 February 2022 at 9:34 PM · edited Thu, 17 February 2022 at 9:43 PM
Forum Coordinator

I referred to grouping for garments models that need to be made conforming or hybrid. The pose room does not work too well for A-posed donors.


odf ( ) posted Thu, 17 February 2022 at 10:05 PM

Ah, jetzt ja! I understand what you're getting at. I was assuming that if a figure came in the A-pose as it's zero pose, things would work better in the fitting room. But I can see how transferring groups and morphs could become more difficult in the A-pose. Dangit!

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


FVerbaas ( ) posted Fri, 18 February 2022 at 4:49 AM · edited Fri, 18 February 2022 at 4:51 AM
Forum Coordinator

Main problem with a zero-A pose in the fitting room is the automatic grouping. Sometimes the collars do not have a ring of facets under the armpits.
Weight maps can be (more or less easily) rectified with a few brush strokes. Unwelded mesh is not so easily solved. That's why I use a separate figure specific grouping script when I make MD built garments into conformers or hybrid rather than rely on the Poser provided grouping.

It still gives me a more or less automated creation process without destroying the garment into T pose.


odf ( ) posted Fri, 18 February 2022 at 4:00 PM

Thanks for the info, FVerbaas!

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 20 March 2022 at 1:40 AM · edited Sun, 20 March 2022 at 1:40 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

So, I've achieved my first conforming piece of clothing for Antonia today, which may inspire hope that one day she might have a proper wardrobe. It's all quite easy at the end with the fitting room and the morph copying function, but it seems that the secret lies in how on prepares the meshes. Also, perhaps not too surprisingly, I've found that the JCMs in the original Antonia 1.2 do not transfer well and so went with Antonia WM instead.

That said, it's possible that Poser simply does not transfer all the ERC setup for the multi-stage JCMs correctly, which require a special fixed channel with a constant value that maybe the code did not recognize as important. So at some point if I find myself in need of complicated ERC setups again that I want to transfer onto clothing, I might try to dive deeper into this subject.

Anyway, here is my excessively topless test image for the new conforming figure:

Ju1NfVrVGRJxn15pw8Z2aDWr1RORWNi1dZKQHwzR.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


ProPose001 ( ) posted Sun, 20 March 2022 at 2:57 PM

From one Westphalian to another,  Antonia is as Lovely as ever.  The pants are nice too.  I'm tempted to fire up Poser again.  It's been a while.  I use Carrara mostly.


hborre ( ) posted Sun, 20 March 2022 at 4:10 PM
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The pants are nice.  The polka dot textures are procedurally created; I know because I created the original shader.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 20 March 2022 at 4:37 PM
ProPose001 posted at 2:57 PM Sun, 20 March 2022 - #4436181

From one Westphalian to another,  Antonia is as Lovely as ever.  The pants are nice too.  I'm tempted to fire up Poser again.  It's been a while.  I use Carrara mostly.

Danke fuer die Blumen, fellow Westphalian! 😄


hborre posted at 4:10 PM Sun, 20 March 2022 - #4436187

The pants are nice.  The polka dot textures are procedurally created; I know because I created the original shader.

Indeed you did, and I can't thank you enough for sharing it. I love me some procedural polka dots.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


jartz ( ) posted Sun, 20 March 2022 at 7:43 PM

Glad to see you back, and I look forward to your clothing sets for her.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gaming System (mostly for lite Graphics work) - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x · Marvelous Designer 8 · CorelDraw Graphics Suite X7_x  Inkscape · Gimp · Sketchup Make · Blender 2.80 · Davinci Resolve 15/16 · Vegas Pro 14 Edit · HitFilm Express 12 · Kdenlive 18x · Audacity


odf ( ) posted Sun, 20 March 2022 at 10:45 PM
jartz posted at 7:43 PM Sun, 20 March 2022 - #4436199

Glad to see you back, and I look forward to your clothing sets for her.

Oh, I've been here all along and posting images to the gallery. I just didn't have any excuses to post in this thread.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Fri, 01 April 2022 at 8:10 PM

Finally some proper Antonia update! The TL;DR is that I've now started to work on a new weight-mapping (and refined joint parameters) in earnest, based on the low-res version of Antonia 1.2.0 (not phantom3d's WM rig). I'll probably transfer that to regular resolution Antonia later, unless I decide to make the low-res my new default figure.

Here's a first snapshot with some work on the elbow. Her right one is my edit so far without any JCMs, the left the original 1.2.0 with JCMs. The new version also has no bulges yet.

HyvyIUucJI5Ibi63xnbnNsCq01DeBHMx9OBQnnIn.png

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Fri, 01 April 2022 at 8:34 PM

The longer version: as you may have noticed if you follow the galleries, I've been doing quite a few Antonia renders this year, often with new clothes I made in MD. This was probably the first time I properly worked with Antonia from a user perspective, and I noticed that my biggest and most consistent pain point was the way she bends. So it became increasingly clear that eventually I'd have to address that. I decided to use Antonia 1.2.0 as the base because I'm more familiar with it, and the low-res version because there are fewer weights to paint, giving me more control.

I started with the elbow bend because of the joints that bothered me the most it is not exactly the worst but probably the easiest to redo. I first fixed the origin and joint orientation (which annoyingly is slightly off so that one always has to correct via side-side after bending the arm), then deleted the JCM, tweaked the inclusion-exclusion angles a bit, converted the zones to a weight-map, and finally started editing that. So far that looks like a decent workflow but I'll have to see. As you can probably see from the image, I'm trying to embrace creases because that's what real flesh does, but make them look as realistic and intersection free as I can manage. We'll also have to see how *that* goes.

Anyway, the forearm twist is next, which I think will be a relatively simple WM edit to get rid of the slight twisted tube look. Then on to the wrists, and after that I'll have a look at the fingers, but might save them for later if they turn out too tricky. Then collars and shoulders, which are also quite tricky, but I've actually managed to achieve some nice improvements for back when I was practicing.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 21 May 2022 at 3:59 AM · edited Sat, 21 May 2022 at 4:00 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Got back to editing some weight maps, this time on the collar. Her left is the original Antonia 1.2 joint with JCMs, her right my new JCM-free version. With a thousand thanks to JoePublic for explaining to me how bulges work.


4ROkk5Bi8DqdwtHVuthwQo9e2C87zctlNee60G37.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


jartz ( ) posted Sat, 21 May 2022 at 1:07 PM

Interesting.  I like what you're doing for her so far.  I been playing around with Antonia mostly.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gaming System (mostly for lite Graphics work) - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 256GB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x · Marvelous Designer 8 · CorelDraw Graphics Suite X7_x  Inkscape · Gimp · Sketchup Make · Blender 2.80 · Davinci Resolve 15/16 · Vegas Pro 14 Edit · HitFilm Express 12 · Kdenlive 18x · Audacity


GeneralNutt ( ) posted Sat, 21 May 2022 at 3:29 PM

Been following for ages, and am happy to see all the new progress, even though I don't normally post. Can we see a version of the last image with just a polygon view to get a better idea of the stretches?




odf ( ) posted Sat, 21 May 2022 at 7:37 PM · edited Sat, 21 May 2022 at 7:46 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

GeneralNutt posted at 3:29 PM Sat, 21 May 2022 - #4438901

Been following for ages, and am happy to see all the new progress, even though I don't normally post. Can we see a version of the last image with just a polygon view to get a better idea of the stretches?


Here ya go! Zoomed in a bit closer, as well.OteRhSRDjyE2Z4ecugIa8daCqN4yEV0zuIErThN3.jpg


An important goal for me was to not deform the collar bone when posing the collar. I'm convinced that if one makes visible bones act like they're made of rubber, it'll end up looking weird eventually, even if it's not immediately obvious.

Also, allow some stretching and bunching up where the skin would normally do that, within reason.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 21 May 2022 at 11:48 PM
Symmetry is off.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 22 May 2022 at 12:24 AM
primorge posted at 11:48 PM Sat, 21 May 2022 - #4438914
Symmetry is off.
Indeed! Her left side has the old rigging, her right side the new version. Some Up-Down values for the collars on both sides, everything else on zero. I'm now working on Front-Back, which might be the trickiest rotation for the collars.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


JoePublic ( ) posted Sun, 22 May 2022 at 3:45 AM
Online Now!

Looking good, looking VERY good!

And I'm glad I could help a little.

BTW, wait with the "mirroring" until the very last moment.

(Unless you are absolutely sure that her mesh is perfectly symmetrical. Which, as you created her yourself, probably are)

I say this because several "over the counter" DAZ/Poser meshes are not perfectly symmetrical (Perhaps intentionally?), and also I sometimes messed up symmetry myself by sculpting full bodymorphs which I later re-rigged as standalone figures.

(But sometimes it's just Poser's object import that can mess a mesh up.)

*

In any case, if you mirror a rig too early, and then have to adjust some joints because the mesh is not symmetric, and THEN need to mirror AGAIN because you found a better solution for a joint, the previous adjustments are of course gone!

That's why I use weightmapping "sparingly", because it is much more "unforgiving" than spheres are.

Also, back up often after every little step, so that you always can go back a step.(Poser 11 is quite stable, actually, but weightmapping takes a lot of computations, especially if you switch subdivision on and off inbetween steps to control the result.)

I lost quite a few great joints because I just wanted to do a few more strokes with the Morphbrush before backing up. Lol!


Again, looking good and I like the "squishy flesh" approach!





odf ( ) posted Sun, 22 May 2022 at 4:30 AM · edited Sun, 22 May 2022 at 4:30 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Thanks! I'll keep the possible mirroring issues in mind.

Here's another quick snapshot, this time combining the collar twist with the up-down. The weekend is almost over, so progress will probably slow down for a bit. :-)

oRDo3NPigX9qrESjgdhYZlXmza9wQshX3osN9d6J.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


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