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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2021 Oct 28 12:22 pm)


Subject: Antonia - Opinions?


odf ( ) posted Mon, 27 October 2008 at 5:18 AM · edited Thu, 28 October 2021 at 12:30 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

file_416397.jpg

Some of you might seen her in my gallery. Antonia is an original human model I've been working on - with interruptions - for the last three years or so. The initial motivation was probably my frustration with the Poser characters available at the time. This made me turn to ZBrush and then Wings3D and experiment with character modeling.

Long story short - I think the geometry is close to being finished. She's rigged for Poser, although there's still a lot of fine-tuning to be done on the joint setups. Once I've finished the teeth and maybe done some more small fixes, I'll UV-map her and... well, what exactly?

See, the thing is, I'd be more than happy for people to have her, make lovely pictures and create content for her, some of which I might be able to use. But I have no ambitions to be a merchant, let alone invest all the hard work that would turn her into a product that might have the slightest chance to compete with the Victorias of this world. Actually, if Victoria 4 had been around in late 2005, I might have just bought her and never had the experience of 'rolling my own'.

Now, this is where - possibly - you guys come in. I can see myself doing the UV map and finishing the rigging as best I can, then put her up somewhere on the web as one of a million free item. If I'm lucky, maybe people will like her and make additional content for her. But, if some of the talented people on here take a liking to her, then maybe - just maybe - we could work together and make her really awesome.

Anyway, this thread is for critiques, comments, suggestions, offers of collaborations, strategical advice and just plain "Gimme, gimme!!!" shouts.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


Boni ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:47 AM

I have Antonia from 2008 ... and I find her innovative even for today ... the duel hip parts so you can bend from the hip and move the hip around without rotating the whole figure is quite a welcome feature.  When do you expect to release your new version of Antonia? 

Boni



"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork


hborre ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 9:37 AM

It is always fun to try something "new" and refreshing.  As the old adage, "built it, they will come".


Faery_Light ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 2:28 PM

I see this thread is growing again, great!
Life has taken so many twists and turns over the lat 9 years and I haven'y worked much with Antonia but now that I amd more into DS shaders and Poser 12 shaders, might do a new skin for her. :)
Hi ODF (waves). :)


Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
     BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.


odf ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:23 PM · edited Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:25 PM

Why the sudden comments from people other than primorge? Has the forum software update revived all the bots? :-)

Boni posted at 8:47 AM Fri, 17 September 2021 - #4427610

I have Antonia from 2008 ... and I find her innovative even for today ... the duel hip parts so you can bend from the hip and move the hip around without rotating the whole figure is quite a welcome feature.  When do you expect to release your new version of Antonia? 

Realistically? Probably in the early to mid 2030s, after I retire. 😄

Seriously, I have a growing list of things I'd like to make for Antonia, and I still like to share things and exchange experiences. But I'm also still an insufferable perfectionist, and this time around I am going to try not to burn myself out by getting too ambitious. So I'll basically work on whatever I feel like, take breaks whenever I feel like and not press forward too hard on anything. This is my hobby, and it's supposed to be fun, right? That means, among other things, that I have maybe one or two hours a day max in me before things start to feel less like fun and more like a second unpaid job.

To be a bit more specific: if the texturing work goes well, I imagine having a new CCA-licensed skin for her by the end of the year is not too unrealistic. I'd like to make a set of every day clothes for her, too, which I can just release as I go. Other things, like the weight map edit I've started on, will need a bit more coordination. The eventual goal is to make myself a new base version of Antonia that works just the way I like it, probably lo-res, weight-mapped, with my old "A" type UV map and an improved and extended set of expression morphs. When I'm happy with that, I'll share it, but I don't know how much time I'll feel like spending on polishing her so that she's generally usable.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:26 PM

Faery_Light posted at 2:28 PM Fri, 17 September 2021 - #4427630

Hi ODF (waves). :)

Hi Faery_Light! (waves back)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:28 PM · edited Fri, 17 September 2021 at 8:28 PM

hborre posted at 9:37 AM Fri, 17 September 2021 - #4427615

It is always fun to try something "new" and refreshing.  As the old adage, "built it, they will come".

Yeah, I don't know about that. We built it and they didn't come. I never saw that film, so maybe there's a plot twist I am missing.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 2:29 AM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 2:32 AM

Here's an unshaded OpenGL render for primorge. Some of my first watery brush strokes from before I edited the fall-off curve in Blender are still in there. Obviously, I'll be fixing those or start again from scratch.

DukDDiZo3emcxAjvSo9CELdqSgJoHBsrW04GyIWw.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:10 PM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:10 PM

I still think you'll save yourself a lot of work if you use a suitable skin tile as a base. Back when I briefly was working on a texture for Antonia I used that fill method, it can give you a very quick method of having an entire base body texture without relying on photo resources for that. After the fill you can very easily fix seams and detail through various methods and 3d painting. These texture previews are the culmination of about 4 days work on Antonia, I decided to go back to some unfinished La Femme projects that I'm still working on. This might be useful to you in some way...


Here's a close up of the flat ear texture with blood vessel detailing. The basic shading is derived from a set as multiply baked AO map...


QIN912wwZQCb06phFjgATODgisbOYRFxa6Evs84R.png




primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:12 PM

Here's the flat eye detailing. Same method with some lid wrinkles hand painted in mudbox...

x1pLAFcPoF17sVOkNjHCo2k36A1JfosDfdUWCNZ7.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:13 PM

How it looks on Antonia...


SELfjJmCAz310OLZ3tzigRNKUQdUrNLZopyJT3pn.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:17 PM

I deliberately made the base texture kind of pale so I can more easily use it for color changes and creature/alien morph skins for her. I also added quite a bit of blood vessel work in mudbox... you can faintly see this along the temples and forehead.

GhTZo9mGLtGOmae6XWJabRqwZ6zU4EZBCmoC90S9.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:22 PM

I also took the most time doing the mouth interior parts... here's the tongue texture, created in mudbox with spots and noise brushes. They're a bit over saturated but it's easy to dial that back when I resume working on this eventually...

BObV2ILszKBdzrje4mYdcIVQfPie5h7pqLADTzAx.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:25 PM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:25 PM

Here's a close up of the painted tongue texture...


sAMx1eyvt98iVTMeQQXIYnWpPETbtY5Bro2Iw9tR.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:35 PM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:35 PM

Part of the mouth interior. Specifically where the interior attaches to the tongue. Again, mudbox painting. You'll find it useful to have various body parts as seperate pieces while painting, masking and toggling visibility. Especially the eyes and various mouth parts. I won't bother describing the cross uv UDIM tile painting method I use, you've probably already come up against that in Blender. If you need help with that still I can describe how I do it in Mudbox, it's similar, I imagine, in Blender. Teeth dont really need much in the way of diffuse texturing, a flat off white fill with a very faint occlusion map works well. Teeth visual properties are handled mostly by SSS.


SJ6L004BwJiKDsfd5G5ghFYYCZNGGm2JOAi4ejRE.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:46 PM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:53 PM

A couple of full head shots to show cumulative. Like I said it didn't take long at all to come up with the base head and neck skin, the mouth parts required the most work. Eyebrows are easy, it's the positioning sometimes that requires fiddling and second guessing. You can find plenty of open source brushes or reference. Pubic hair is a little more tricky but I have very good reference photos lol. Lash brushes are easy to find.

Adding all the little spots and imperfections, pores, etc can be tedious but I find it meditative busy work. Make sure you try to keep things on as many separate transparent layers as possible, you'll thank yourself later. Only bake down and final beauty blend when you are ready to make a particular master file. Keep all your templates as an over the top multiply layer and keep many selection sets. Especially the saved selections will come in handy later for detailed makeups. I usually use a combination of solid color filled selections that can easily be magic wanded ( lips and eye cavity areas) and many template based saved selections...


7QZVGgH5ltgYMV1jCJuEavk8ujOab6Lwe9p3OAD1.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:51 PM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 8:51 PM

...oh, and make sure the blend between the lip perimeter where it joins the mouth interior has a nice transition. A lot of people might skimp on that but it's important otherwise it'll look like crap during open mouth smiles and such

Z3eJF3v0eYPgaEot6wzMUReLUXxU1Km5kiO63pxh.png



primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 9:06 PM · edited Sat, 18 September 2021 at 9:13 PM

Anyway, as an OT personal aside I just finished another "fantasy" makeup for La Femme, or it's just about finished. It's my take on Black Metal corpse paint makeup that you see alot in Norwegian Black Metal bands. I'm not crazy about much of the production qualities and ideologies attached to Black Metal though I do like a lot of "extreme" music such as Doom metal and GrindCore. I do think the visual aesthetics of Black Metal are kind of cool though, especially when sported by women lol. That being said this Makeup was partially inspired by the media personality Poppy's appropriation of the the aesthetic on the cover of her 'I Disagree' recording shown below. Though it's a graphical overlay it works well, perhaps better because of it...


IZuiQObHHVbG34oiocFqP5Cc1NMDJ0WoM9MH73hh.png


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 18 September 2021 at 9:10 PM

Here's my take, more akin to traditional corpse paint.

Just the diffuse maps, no shaders, regular Firefly... triangular pupils are one of my eye morphs...


Ftdj7LQZANXISaDQzTVYX8Y4NyFTCSBvV5CWm5rN.png




odf ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 1:09 AM · edited Sun, 19 September 2021 at 1:17 AM

Fantastic stuff, primorge, very helpful! I'm definitely planning on using all the "shortcuts" I can in my texture painting. Right now I'm just getting my bearings and playing with simple things, though, being an absolute noob in most of the software and techniques. It took me ages to figure out how to get multiple UDIM textures (one each for the various slots such as color, roughness and bump) into a material in Blender, for example. Very simple once one knows. Or the fact that Poser/SuperFly applies gamma correction to a color that I plug into a value input, so I have to reverse that in a math node. If I didn't have less than the average amount of hair before, I would have now.

I made a halfway decent merkin in The Other Software a few weeks ago, so I don't I'll be painting any pubic hair any time soon. I might try the same with brows and lashes, at least for my own work. Can't hurt to have a painted brow option when distributing a texture, but that's not an immediate concern right now.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 1:16 AM

Oh, I forgot to ask: what resolutions do you use in your texturing work?

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 4:51 AM

odf posted at 1:16 AM Sun, 19 September 2021 - #4427712

Oh, I forgot to ask: what resolutions do you use in your texturing work?

4096. Seems like the standard for Poser characters now.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 5:03 AM · edited Sun, 19 September 2021 at 5:09 AM

To be honest I'm anxious to wrap up my various Poser character projects and go back to more modeling projects and figure creation. Making props, static sculpts, and non human figures, feels more like being an artist for my particular interests. Making stuff for existing Poser figures carries a lot of preconceived notion/expectation baggage that feels a bit stifling. Maybe by the end of the year. Working under those constraints has been a decent learning experience though.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 5:42 AM

Very simple once one knows. Or the fact that Poser/SuperFly applies gamma correction to a color that I plug into a value input, so I have to reverse that in a math node.


I just use the texture node gamma correction options, if I'm understanding you correctly, 2.2/custom 1 alpha. Unless the render has some poor lighting it's pretty consistent results across software and devices. I check my work across different displays, my tablet being a bit more contrasty of a display than my computer. Usually auto contrast in photoshop results in no visible adjustment from most poser renders unless I really hastily lit it or the global illumination is poorly set. OpenGL preview render stuff I tweak in photoshop if necessary.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 7:15 AM

Nah, that gamma correction issue is a bit more specific, and  the texture node settings didn't seem to make any difference. I'll probably ask about it in the technical forum later, rather than have it buried in this thread. It was just an aside to illustrate my general level of ignorance.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 7:16 AM

primorge posted at 5:03 AM Sun, 19 September 2021 - #4427717

To be honest I'm anxious to wrap up my various Poser character projects and go back to more modeling projects and figure creation. Making props, static sculpts, and non human figures, feels more like being an artist for my particular interests. Making stuff for existing Poser figures carries a lot of preconceived notion/expectation baggage that feels a bit stifling. Maybe by the end of the year. Working under those constraints has been a decent learning experience though.

Very relatable.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


bwldrd ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 9:06 AM

OT  but, "To be honest I'm anxious to wrap up my various Poser character projects", I just hope you're still planning to release them when finished :)  I'm looking forward to seeing that Sera package.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 9:23 AM · edited Sun, 19 September 2021 at 9:29 AM

I'm going to try and sell my La Femme stuff. Sera and Antonia stuff will be free. The Sera thing will probably have to be distributed as a cr2 because of some of the crazy morph and JCM stuff. If I don't put the Sera thing out there I'll PM you and give you a copy. I have to redo the textures on the Sera thing, it'll have to be toon skin ala La Femme's Anime Girl style, the textures I made aren't up to snuff because the figure is so poorly UV mapped. Any kind of detailed skin on the body suffers from stretching during bends because the whole body map is on one tile. Even at 4096 the body map details take up too small of a portion of the tile. Consequently details such as nipples and skin modulation are very pixelated even at high resolutions. A flat toon skin style will fix that, very easy to do. I think the figure was intended for toon shaders mostly. I worked for a long time on morphs for that figure and there were a lot of hair pulling technical hurdles to overcome, particularly with the existing magnet JCMs and the way the eyes are constructed as flat planes... so I don't plan on just abandoning the work I did.


You'll be the first to know when I wrap that, and thanks for the interest :)


Oh... and the Sera features are... sublimely perverted lol. Just a heads up. I kinda went overboard in that regard.


Nod ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 5:41 PM · edited Thu, 23 September 2021 at 10:11 AM

odf posted at 9:15 PM Fri, 3 September 2021 - #4426608

And the corresponding back views. ThreeAntoniasBack.jpg

Your version definitely looks better. Especially with the shoulder blades


edgeverse ( ) posted Sun, 19 September 2021 at 6:53 PM

Looking good.

3D Digital Comics & Art/My homepage
http://www.edgeversemedia.com


Crios ( ) posted Mon, 20 September 2021 at 4:52 AM

Happy to see Antonia is allready living.


primorge ( ) posted Mon, 20 September 2021 at 2:09 PM

"Or the fact that Poser/SuperFly applies gamma correction to a color that I plug into a value input, so I have to reverse that in a math node...

... Nah, that gamma correction issue is a bit more specific, and  the texture node settings didn't seem to make any difference. I'll probably ask about it in the technical forum later, rather than have it buried in this thread."


Says this in Dimension3D's 'Introduction to Superfly' pdf...


SVnpts2sdbaZrmQpNdNTTYJ78jwPXsQjjmEb4Bl2.jpg 
https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/introduction-to-superfly/112622

and that's it. Apparently, according to this it's omnipresent. All of my forum searches return the same prognosis... GC is always present and no mention of a workaround.


primorge ( ) posted Mon, 20 September 2021 at 2:32 PM

Actually there is a GC section in the above cited pdf, after reading a bit more in there's this... not sure if it's relevant to your particular problem but here's a citation

Introduction to Superfly, p.37 

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/introduction-to-superfly/112622

jscSZHbQJIhqpR5E4E4dIu046cUDUHG7KBZAnVyT.jpg



odf ( ) posted Tue, 21 September 2021 at 2:03 AM

Thanks primorge! I have that document and consulted it, too, but it seems I was too impatient. I'll have another look and see if it explains the specific issue.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 21 September 2021 at 2:18 AM

Okay, judging by Ralf's descriptions there, it looks as if there may have been some changes between between P11 and P12, and possibly a bug in the P12 version I'm running. So I guess I'll upgrade to the latest version, do a more controlled test and ask in the P12 forum if things don't work the way one would expect.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Tue, 28 September 2021 at 4:28 AM

Just in case anyone was wondering, I haven't left again. It's only that I fell into a bit of a Blender rabbit hole. No details or I'll get a talking to from the mods again. :-) But I'm still practicing and studying painting textures for Antonia, as evidenced by the image.bSrhMoP7dalZbsgi7Ip0LNCQI2j5AEtub7RtwCI0.jpg

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


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