...or letting light cones with particle interactions get through the windows...

GWeb, I have to admit that I would much prefer eovia to focus the development of Carrara on improving existing tools and adding much needed features (such as symmetrical modeling), rather than add stuff that we don't really need. For instance, I don't care for the "nature" features, I already have Vue and I'm very happy with it - thank you. Why eovia would spend so much development effort on stuff like this is beyond me. The funny part is that it's reasonable to expect a new version of Vue anytime soon, which will probably put C5 to shame in that respect. In the mean time, we have to wait for much needed improvements. What a waste... As you say, dbigers, no application does it all. I think it's much better to be good at what you do, rather than average at a lot of stuff. SSS in C5 looks interesting, but I'm gonna wait for the trial version before I shell out for this puppy. Just my two cents.

I think most agree obj import/export is a pain. It is slow. Maybe in hex they can have an easier way to get the model in carrara. However,if they won't do it they won't. I am sure it is all by choice...not like they CAN'T do it. C5 is lacking, but it is much better than 4. The way to show what you think about a product is to not buy it. For me I do not think the pro version is really a pro app at all, but 4 was worse. For some those unique file supports maybe important to them, like matchmover. For me the volumetric effect listed above is important and better texturing/mapping, baking and normal map. Not that sym modeling isn't. It does have plugins...tho no scripting...which can be very helpful. I would also like to see if the displacement map issue is just a bug or a misunderstanding of the way it works. Carrara has a good interface tho and performance...TS is cool app, but HORRID interface. If you use the KB...I suppose it is manageable.It's like a bad shareware app.I also was shocked when I found out about only 1 undo level in LW...was looking recently. How crazy is that. LCBoliou thanks. Are you using ipak w/ TS? That is what I thought you meant, but pictures...you know. Like stain glass interior. I was not aware of this.I would send both the displacement issue and the lighting request to someone.I think the older things should be updated, as well before adding new...I believe this for all sw.

Petshoo, probably best that you do wait for the trial version to see if it will suit your needs. Not all Carrara users also own Vue, so Eovia may be trying to address those users who may be like GWeb, and want to do as much as possible in a single application. If you take a good look at what has been worked on I think that you will find that many of the things addressed in V5 are things that have been asked for over and over by the user base on lists and forums all over the web. They took quite a few of them off the "to be done" list. Did they get them all? No of course not, no single app or version is going to satisfy everyone. The jump from 4 to 5 looks like a good one to me and when the trial comes out everyone can decide for themselves without having to buy it first. wayne k guam usa

Wayne: I think Eovia is more focused on competition against other app like Vue. They probably look at user's wish list as the least priority for example symmetry modeling function. I have a feeling that they did not realize that our wish list can be more marketable along with their current new features combined. FYI I asked for symmmetry since RDS4, RDS 5/5.5, CS1/1.1, skipped to CS3 and still whining. I refused to buy C4 becayse symmetry is still not implemented. If Vue or other apps come up with other new features. Eovia probably will ignore our wish list again.

Well I own both Vue5I AND Carrara, and I'll say that after 7 months of HARD use, I appreciate Carrara's landscape ability -- AND STABILIY. The quality of rendering in Vue, when using fine-scaled textures is grainy. To get out the grainy renders, you need to bump up the render object & texture antialiasing settings to levels that make a snail rendering my work look fast!

I'm presently doing a render in C5Pro that Vue chokes & dies on! And the tree leaves & needles (on pines) in Carrara are poly based, not mapped 2D planes like Vue's. Up close, the Carrara trees look better -- I got proof! Also, Carrara's tree editor can create original species, vs Vue's limitations to only modify existing ones. Since C5Pro's plant editor now allows immediate visual feedback when modifying plants, it is now much better than the Vue implementation.

Want me to go on...?

LCBoliou: Please dont go on.

Vue is slight unique app than Carrara. I like the plant dynamics in Vue side with wind effect. Carrara plants is solid and still. I don't think C5 will have dynamic plant like in Vue. So... Please dont address Vue here but you may talk about tools that is missing in Carrara that you think Eovia should implement. I am not up to hear about application vs application this forum. I get annoyed. X-)

Message edited on: 11/02/2005 17:56

You get annoyed far too easily GWeb! My comment was a response to a comment concerning VUE-like features in Carrara, and why someone opined that they are not needed which I disagree with. 3D application comparisons are a good way to discover features from other applications that prove it can be done for Carrara. What I would not expect in a Carrara forum, would to have someone run-down Carrara in comparing it to another application. I really don't live in a hard vacuum so perhaps you might simply skip on to the next comment if you get annoyed? The act of reading is, after all a voluntary one.

GWeb reminds me of a neighbor's smoke detector low-battery signal chirp going off every two minutes that they refuse to get new batteries for.

LOL!

LOL hehe Shonner: you sounded like one of my neighbor, is that you?

LCBoliou: My apologize that I offended you in anyway. I have been to forums and get tired of reading posts about application vs application. I always want to read something relevant than this.

Well, It depends on how you read app vs app. If you look at it as competition or judgement then I guess that would be annoying. I like the comparisons because it helps you understand things relative to other apps and what you know.This is sw not a person w/ feelings :). People should be able to discuss what they want at long as they can back it up and aren't trying to be rude. Thanks LCBoliou...I think that is very interesting to know how well it renders such things.

"This is the forum of Carrara, so i don't want to compare different softwares from different software houses." Toxe: I understand completely and salute your discretion. Cheers.

GWeb, no offense taken. This is a Carrara Forum, and I am having great fun with the C5Pro beta. My comments relative to Vue were based on my very unhappy, love/hate relationship with e-on's flagship product. This Carrara beta release is very stable! It looks like we can look forward to a rock-solid final product. The ability to precisely populate objects on a terrain is remarkable. The vertex modeler is much better and the edge tools and bevel are quite cool. You know the nice tutorial we have here on making the gear? Well such objects are now really easy to do by replicating gear teeth on a disk. After playing around with the materials editor, I can say that it is way ahead of C4Pro! Drag & drop, copy & paste. At this point I would recommend C5Pro for anyone wanting to do low-medium, and some high level 3D modeling/landscaping/architecture/rendering. And yes, a symmetrical modeling tool would be nice.

Could someone either point to the locale over at Eovia(been searching but can't find) or tell me which of the plugins are included in the Pro version(version5)/old ones that have been condensed into it. I don't want to make duplicate purchases :) TIA

TIA,

For DCG products, I wouldn't buy Anything Grooves if you plan on moving to C5, it does some things better than C5 displacement but for most users it's probably not worth getting extra. If you're only using Anything Grows for static tip objects kinds of effects, the Carrara 5 replication tools are a better choice. If you want to animate the tip movement, orientation, fur, hair, etc. it's still a handy tool.

Regards,
Eric Winemiller
Digital Carvers Guild
Plug-ins for Carrara
http://digitalcarversguild.com

Thanks for the info :)

Hi Debby, Here is some info. Hope it helps you out a bit? Web site has link to beta plug-ins: http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/ I would hold-off on purchasing Anything Grooves, as C5Pro has displacement maps that work very well. The rest of the DCG plug-ins are still (I think) viable, but I would hold-off until C5Pro soaks awhile. Anything Grows is good for a lot of things not covered in C5Pro (like growing a grass base on terrain, or maybe a grass plug to be distributed by the C5Pro surface replicator -- not to mention creating fur and hair). Most of DCGs stuff is very good, and they have good support (they already have their C5Pro beta plug-ins for users to download). http://www.inagoni.com/news.php I have a few from these folks, and they are good. They have also made their beta plug-ins available (except for Deeper, and Architools which I use in C4Pro is great for rapidly building your own houses etc.). I think you really want Veloute? It works great with C5Pros displacement mapping -- I've tried it. Hold-off on Replica for obvious reasons, and except for Veloute, I would not purchase any others right now. Inagoni beta plug-ins: http://julien.chaplier.free.fr/DownloadLink/C5BetaPlugins.zip

Thanks :)Everyone here has been a big help :)

LCBoliou if you use Baker and deeper what is the diff in the normal map support of each? There is a baker demo, but not deeper. Thanks.

Well I went ahead and upgraded to C5 Pro. Carrara ROCKS!! The new additions to the modeler are welcome. I can actually get some stuff out of it now. I was planning to continue to use LW to model and render in Carrara. Now I am not sure. Looks as if Carrara can easily handle my needs now. The manipulators are very helpful in moving and positioning objects. Before I always ended up grabbing the wrong item, especially in the VM. I think they grabbed the most useful stuff from Hexagon. Obviously they couldnt include it all. But for my modeling needs they got it right and what is included is very welcome. The surface replicator works great. Volumetric clouds do as well. They are simply beautiful. I also like the new design of the texturing room. Much more logical it seems and the filtering of simple shaders works great to reduce clutter on the screen. Lightwave import works great as long as I make sure and import with the same smoothing settings as Lightwave. Around 89.53 if I remember correctly. Displacement mapping works great also. I could go on and on. Suffice it to say, if you skipped the C4 upgrade, you owe it to yourself to get in on this update. Even the standard update at $99 offers a lot. Quite a few of the C4Pro features are in C5 Standard. Including sound and Lightwave import. I remain impressed with Carrara's GI implementation. Shonner's recent Kitchen images are testament to the GI solution in Carrara. OPEN GL performance is noticably better on my system now. At the risk of sounding like an advertisement I will say that if you are already comfortable with Carrara, this upgrade is a no brainer. Assuming you can swing it financially. There have been times over the past 2 years that I could have used the Volumetric clouds. That alone could have easily enhanced several animations I did for a local company. The effect is good enough that I could have easily charged more on those animations. Ok, as you can tell I really like this upgrade. Best of luck to those trying to decide. Hopefully once a demo is released those trying to decide can make a more informed decision. I know after paying for the upgrade and I was waiting for the download to finish there were some moments where I thought to myself that I may have made a mistake. A few minutes in the modeler and those thoughts went away. Now a disclaimer. Yes I use Lightwave. I have used it for several years going back to version 5.6. Realistically there isnt much you cant do with it. However, for my own needs Carrara "now" works quite nicely. I say "now" because before I just could not get my head into the modeling process within the VM. Also, "my needs" might be quite different from someone else's. 85% of my work is animated logo's for local TV advertisers and some corporate ID work. Carrara has always had great looking output, now I feel comfortable modeling in it also. The other 15% of my work is a mix of landscape and architectural rendering. Also, keep in mind I do not rely on this to eat. I have a "regular" job. This is all freelance, although it is on a fairly regular basis. I like the direction Carrara is heading. I also like the program itself. It is a pleasure to work with--keeping in mind what I use it for of course. I wanted to make this switch last year when I bought C3 Studio. But I could never implement C3 in my work because of difficulties I had in the VM. I know others have produced great work in the old VM. I was not one of them. Right now I am using Lightwave 7.5. For me to upgrade now would be $399. There are some nice features in the latest upgrade. I would also get a "free" upgrade to Version 9 when it is released. I guess my heart just isnt in it because I am not excited at all about upgrading Lightwave. Especially for $399 a pop each time. Actually that is not bad considering what the upgrades cost in the past. But when I think about the lack of multiple undo's in Layout that have existed since the program came out it bothers me. I can and do get by without multiple undo's, but what bothers me is that the developers failed to listen to customers for so many years on such a universally accepted standard. Perhaps that all will change soon. But for me personally I think I will go with Carrara for now. I dont see it being a problem for my work. But if it ends up being that way, well I still have LW7.5 to fall back on. I made this statement last year, but back then I thought I "could" get into the modeler, but that didnt happen. Although I did do one job with it that paid for the software. With this upgrade, the modeler works as well as I need it to already. Again, I am not a "power" user by any stretch of the imagination. But if do "grow" in my work, well there is always Hexagon, which I am also quite pleased with, based on the 1.2 demo. Ok, sorry for the long post. But I thought it might be interesting to share my thoughts. Cheers!!

It is indeed interesting post to read. I am tempted to ask you: Did you find very disappointing that symmetry did not include in new Vertex Modeling room? In my opinion without symmmetry option in VM is difficult to use and may consider to be junkie modeling room because everything in the world have symmetry. I could not think what I would want to model in junkie new VM that do not have symmetry! Hexagon is just a waste because it is separated core software and you have to deal with import/export process between apps and apps. I am never in mood for it. :(

No I was not "too" disappointed. But dealing with import/export does not bother me too much.

Why did you even bother answering Gwebs question, Dbigers. He has ask that 10 times now and he will continue to do so the more fuel you guys give him. He may call it junkie but the majority don't agree with him. He hasn't even use it. Ringo

On pourpose, regarding people disappointed or not... There is now a refresh button when i change an imported texture?? Or i need to close my 30 meg file and relaunch Carrara? I've ask it to Eovia 4 years ago...;-) -TOXE

Toxe what version of Carrara did you stop using at? There is no refresh button, but since Carrara 2(2002?) there has been a "Reload" button right under the "Load" button that will update any changes to imported textures in the shader room. It has not been removed for version 5. wayne k guam usa

Mmmmh, maybe there isn't in the mac version? -TOXE

Me, I'm liking it. I did the basic model in this pic in about 10 minutes and really love the inter-active tools, this started as a circle and was extruded and trimmed to shape. Now I'm playing with uvmapping and shaders, something I regret to say I haven't paid much attention to, so it's a bit slow going. Can't wait to be able to buy a hard copy of the manual. Oh and yse this object is symetrical unlike most things in nature (at least according to every art class and art book I've ever seen).

Mmmmh, maybe there isn't in the mac version? -TOXE That is possible, I have never seen Carrara running on a mac. :>) wayne k guam usa

Ouch! And i've never seen Carrara running on PC!!:-)) -TOXE

The refresh button is definitely there in the Mac version. I don't have Carrara on the computer I'm using now, so I can't give you a screenshot, but the icon looks like a folder with a circular arrow or something like that. It's one of the icons next to the image preview in the texture tree. That button is not the greatest tool, though, because if you change a texture map you have to go open your texture in the texture room, unfold the tree to see the mapping, and click that button. I wish that that there was a global texture refresh command, so that I could reload several textures at once. Or better yet, Carrara could automatically detect when textures are updated (lots of programs have this ability - the game authoring system Unity, for instance.) - Joe

This is the button rendererer is referring to. It refreashes the imported texture map if you make a change to it. I hope this helps.

mike

Mmmh, really? in C4 and previous versions don't work (on mac at least)... -TOXE

How odd? I've used it a lot in C4 on the PC. I'm working on the testure map and bump map for my scout ship now but I haven't used the refreash buttom yet in C5. mike

BTW the best thing of all is this thread that seems to be the longest in history of this forum:-))) -TOXE

I think the automatic detect would be great...very easy. uvmapping is enough challenge.:D Just like in a word processor when it knows the doc has changed.

quote, I wish that that there was a global texture refresh command, so that I could reload several textures at once. Or better yet, Carrara could automatically detect when textures are updated (lots of programs have this ability - the game authoring system Unity, for instance.) end quote. I am quite sure when you open the carrara file it gets all the updated texture maps , at least I remember this happening before. Mike

I think it depends on which option you choose. If you store your textures external to the Carrara file then they would be updated automatically. If you store the texture INTERNAL to the Carrara file they wouldn't get automatically updated. At least that's how it seems to work in C4, haven't checked on C5 yet. mike

Yes, save INTERNALLY is comfortable, but the file size sometimes become absurd but is really handy when you need to exchange your file with someone else (a good feature that not all the 3d software have), my 2 cent advice is to create a folder with all your textures and your 3d files or better than all, complete your 3d work, save a scene with INTERNALLY then open again the file and save it all EXTERNALLY in your folder, so you will have a copy of all your textures:-P -TOXE