The Hot 20 To *V* or Not To Be

deemarie · January 16, 2006 6:39 am

The Constant Hot Topic Its been brought up, dragged through the mud, burned, and beaten time and time again...that darned old Hot 20. It has been a hot topic on many occasions, and in many forums. But, is it important? Is it what many strive for? Is the Hot 20 worth striving for? Most importantly, should it stay, should it change, or should it go? The Deal How does it work? Heres the rundown. An image is posted to the gallery. Other members viewing it can either rate, comment, add the artist or image to favorites, or vote on it. Accepting ratings and comments are optional to the artist when uploading. Voting, however, is currently not an optional setting. The Hot 20 is based on the number of votes an image received in the previous 7 days. But one member can generate only one vote on a particular image during this seven-day period. This means that a single member cannot vote on the same image again until 7 days has passed, but is free to vote on as many other images as they choose. Simple enough, right? Theoretically, this system should work properly enough, but ... To *V* or not to *V*? That is the question, isnt it? The answer, however, is murky. Why? Voting is anonymous, unless of course, one publicly states (*V*) it in comments under the image. Clicking the vote button takes no more time than checking the clock on ones monitor. One can vote on as many images as they like. Why then, is the Hot 20 most often not a good representation of the gallery it belongs to? It is true that some members with a large following will continually get votes. However, it is also true that other members with a large following will not. Then, of course, there are those that may never see the Hot 20, though their work may be just as deserving. But maybe, just maybe, that vote button is not used enough. Why is it so daunting to some? Is it that some feel the Hot 20 has gone on to be a popularity contest which is beyond repair? Is it that some want nothing to do with it? Encouraging members to vote, usually results in a negative response. Ill be quite honest, as I myself no longer look at the Hot 20 because of it. But it is still important enough that the complaints continue. Endnotes- Mine, Yours, and Ours Can the Hot 20 work? Maybe, with a bit of change. Maybe, in the way in which the votes are received so as to eliminate one artist holding more than one spot at a time. That could be a step in the right direction. Maybe, with more participation. But, for now, it is time to get your opinions on the matter. That is you, the readers, the members and voice of the Renderosity Community Our community. So, what say you? Should it stay, should it change, or should it go? Please consider honest, but helpful feedback.
Message2343377.jpg Nicks Notes is a regular featured column with Renderosity Staff Writer Nick Sorbin [vclaszlo].
January 16, 2005

Article Comments

Sabra ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I stand by my point I made on the forums that the vote button should be optional when uploading an image. Removing would mean giving in to one group of people and leaving out the other, but not making it optional also forces those who don't want votes or simply disagree with the Hot 20 to participate in it. I don't really see why it's so hard to make that button optional, cause I think that would satisfy most people.

Kristta ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

The Hot 20 is nothing but a popularity contest. People with the most online friends make the top 20. Rarely do I see some of the more excellent works of art in the top 20. I think it should be an optional button or gone all together.

Moebius87 ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I agree... it would be nice if artists were given the freedom of choice in the matter. Why not simply run a poll with the basic question "if voting became optional, would you disable voting for your images? (yes / no / clueless about the HOT20)". Great article. Thanks, Nick. :o) M

deemarie ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Hey Moe, Great idea :] You asked for a poll ... you got it :] Dee-Marie

Kid_Fisto ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I'd just like to say that the hot 20 is rather subjective. i don't want to see the 20 go, because it does show some very good images. on the other hand, could we possibly have something that says that an artist can have no more than one piece on the 20 at a time? i've seen several times in the fractal gallery where one guy (his name escapes me) had five images! i think that that would allow the other artists to shine at least a little. conversely, maybe it'd be cool to have something that shows all the images that got over a certain amount of votes, like 10 votes (which is a lot, really)

rockets ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I used to be concerned with the Hot 20, but after someone "in the know" informed me that there are people here who have numerous alias' and tend to vote for themselves with these alias', I've stopped being concerned and stopped looking at the "20" altogether. Personally I'd like to see it done away with all together, but this poll is a good first step in the right direction.

Alihahd ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Yes, the optional button would be fine. If it not become optional its ( for me ) fine too, because I dont care about the H20. Im my Opinion, there is no chance making the H20 to proper work. Ali

dialyn ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Definitely should be optional. The Hot 20 in some galleries is only an indicator of artist or topic popularity, and not necessarily an indication of skill or creativity. Everyone should have a choice whether or not to participate. Personally I ignore it, but I realize some people find it fun and I wouldn't deny them that pleasure.

geoegress ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Disable or enable- who cares- it still won't work- it'll still be the same as now. Not even a popularity contest- but a political one- school kids or club members or church groups will continue to dominate. What is needed is an automatic script to calculate the 'ratio of viewings to comments'. Posting that will show the best (within a 7 days period) that this site can offer. It's fair, universal and unbias.

nigol ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I have never seen this Hot 20. Where the heck is it?

Valentina ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

For example, I don't allow comments on my images...and I would also like a button that can say I DON'T allow votes on my images. I will use it for sure. I saw many mean discutions in forums...where people were acting really childish and throw each other mean words because of jealousy of who gets or not in hot 20... it was so ridiculous... So, personally...I want a "Don't vote for my image" button...please. Vali

William_the_Bloody ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Daily top 20 based on viewings/comments Weekly top 100 based on Veiwings/Comments Monthly top 30 based on Votes I don't care about popularity or whatever but it's nice to have a digest of RO's finest. If he had a daily tally I would definately keep up on the Gallery. As it is now, I can hardly stand browsing it unless I'm looking at someone who just popped up on my Radar for some other reason.

justinwilliams ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

This question is not about the Hot 20 or who is in it. If you are concerned about it, you should ask yourself why you create your art? For what reasons. Is it to satisfy a creative need or to gain praise from others making up for a lack of self esteem? Create art because you love to, it's the only way you will gain satisfaction. Personally I prefer to browse the galleries, and every now and again I will see one really worth comment. There have been many occasion on viewing the Hot 20 where there will be a superior image on it's gallery page but it has received votes because people come straight in from an email notice for a favourite artist etc, they have not viewed the alternatives. Perhaps voting could be enabled only if the referring page was the Gallery page? Not from direct email links?

vt100 ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Yeah as mentioned above i was always concerned about getting hardly any votes but in the end it really doesn't bother me if it stays or goes so i'd say given the choice i'd vote for the optional choice

ppetersen ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I like the hot 20 and have occasionally made it, but I do see where a change in it is indeed needed. I like the idea of a generator that would calculate the ratio of viewings to the comments. I see some who have say 25 or 30 comments but a 125 viewings, and then others with 18 comments and say 55 viewings and they are wonderfully creative and yet are not in the top 20. Many who create in the various programs are not allowed to shine so to speak as that particular option is not fair.. IMHO... I would like to see an overhaul of it to allow for more artists and varied ones to make the hot 20. :)

AndyWelder ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

The H20 as it is should go for sure IMO, it's degraded into a popularity contest and , indeed as geoegress wrote, an political instrument. It's only function at this stage is stirring up the forums from time to time;-) If the H20 has to be an indicator of skill/craftsmanship the whole thing should be rehauled by some clever scripters...And the parameters to be incorporated....? No clue.

max- ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Hot 20 may not be perfect, but it's kind of neat. Perhaps it can be modified a bit, but changes may make it even worse, so be careful. It's nice to be able to quickly see the best images of the week, without having to crawl through hundreds of bad ones, especially if you have a slow connection or not much time.

IgnisSerpentus ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Well, Ill chime in coz Ive always disliked the hot 20. It causes more problems than does good. Personally, I never pay attention to it and didnt even know it existed til about 8 mos ago. And while I wont say everyone that makes it there isnt worthy (coz there are very worthy images that do) I will agree that it does seem elitist and unfair at times. So I think it should be optional or done away with alltogether. I lean more towards the latter though, coz I dont think optional would really change the contempt that it breeds.

0m3g4 ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I've honestly never really noticed the button there, let alone gone and clicked on it.

jjean21 ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I enjoy browsing the 'Hot 20' as it has lead me to galleries I might not have found otherwise. I do however think it needs to be overhauled to allow for a wider variety of the talenteed artists here to be featured. As for the voting aspect, no one should be able to vote for a given image more than once regardless of the time frame...sounds a little like stuffing a ballot box; and while many artists create work after work that is equally good, one image at a time in the Hot 20 should suffice.

toshibasan ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I attempt to ignore the so called "Hot 20" on any given occasion. It's always struck me a suspect when the same individuals keep having images there. There are thousands of posters here at Renderosity, some with amazing talent and versatility. Yet the same artists keep getting praise heaped upon them for posting the same schlock tripe every week. My advise is to do away with the section altogether or perhaps create a section for doe eyed buxom women with too much soft focus and no imagination. My 2 cents. Toshi.

h2odog ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

One of the things about Renderosity is that it is so popular, and so many people of all skill levels post here, it can be hard find the really exceptional images. While the Hot 20 isn't perfect, it gives someone like me who doesn't have a lot of time to sift through all the images something to use as a filter. Granted, it's not perfect. It's easy to see who's in the Hot 20 because of merit and who's there because they have lots of friends. They really aren't fooling anyone. So, while I do occasionally look at the Hot 20, I don't remember ever using the vote button. I guess I don't care either way, keep it or don't.

Giana ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

the whole Top20 thing is so easy to simply ignore - been doing it for years myself - and i honestly do not think it is a true indicator of anything artistically speak. i do see how it could probably be used as Marketing tool though [shrug]. just give me a button and i'll be happy... if the 20 thing bothers people so much though but for whatever reason the majority also wishes to have something akin to it, maybe there can be some sort of alternative way of doing it, or taking it out of the community's hands to some extent... have a daily moderator's pick that goes into a queue and then a community vote at the end of the week - then display the chose image for a week, or something along those lines [?shrug?]... oh, and just in case anyone missed it: give me a button and i'll be happy :D thanks for opening a community discussion on it...

DigiArts ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

The Hot 20 as presently constituted is merely a popularity contest..and almost a joke. I think general "voting" should be done away with, and- if Renderosity continues to feature a Hot 20 gallery, it should include images that a panel of judges decide upon. Furthermoe, IMO, the choices should be based upon artistic and technical merit only- not on the popularity of the person/artist..or how many comments a select image receives or ratings..or even upon the number of views it receives. The panel of judges could be comprised of 3 or 4 impartial artists whose work is already reknowned; like former AOM's or AOY's..or, perhaps even moderators. But to have the general community vote has yielded disappointment and some pretty laughable results- again and again, in my opinion. It's like being in high school all over again..and, if you're not in the most popular "clique" you're out of luck, no matter your talent and worthy contributions.

Sivana ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

From my point of view, the Hot 20 isnt really an urgent thing. Sometimes I have a look on it to see that here I always find the same persons. For myself,I also have just given votes. But I often do if I find a real masterpiece of arkwork here - but I never have seen such a fantastic artwork within the Hot 20. Personally I think, why not the Hot 20 if some persons have fun to vote and to be in the Hitlist. Its a game not more or less.A game most among some friends that doesnt hurts someone really. Take it easy ;-)

islandgirdesigns ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I've stopped looking at the "Hot 20" just like I've stopped entering the contests here. As grateful as I am for the chance to display some of my images here, The contests and the "Hot 20" are popularity contests that don't give us the chance to see other talent here. I'd rather sit and take a stroll through the gallery for hours and see who's developing their talent then go through the "20" and roll my eyes thinking "Oh, them again". Personally I'd like to see a weekly H20 of new artists put up by a set panel of open minded people wanting to showcase the talents of different artists.

bclaytonphoto ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

Ah yes..the timeless debate on the Hot 20.. In some areas of the's a big deal, others don't bother with it much. Making it an option like comments and ratings should be an easy fix. (BTW, I really don't like ratings either). To make a HOT20 actually work, I think a three fold system would be best. One third comming from votes, one third from number of views and one third from number of comments. Limiting an artist to one image in the Hot 20 per week would also be a step in the right direction. That might help. On the other hand, does the Hot 20 add to the community as a whole, or does it just create problems ? Here's my final thought on the issue, I think we can all agree that the current system doesn't work. It's nothing more than a popularity contest in some area's of this site. I see two solutions. Fix it or dump it. Personally, I'd just dump it. It's not worth the animosity it creates among members, nor is it worth the time and effort the staff has to work to put out all the fires that, are a result of it.

Shardz ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I agree with jjean21 in the fact that within the 7 day time period, if one artist has an image in the Hot20, no other images of the same artist should be allowed unti the 7 days has lapsed. One image per artist per week, and I've been stating that idea for quite awhile now. This would at least open up more slots for those who don't normally make it there and allow a bit more diversity. Allowing the option to post without a vote button will not fix the popularity problem, but make it even worse. Those who thrive on it for various reasons will not use the 'no vote' option and will only eliminate those who are very conscious of the ideal in question. Secondly, I'd rather see it done away with completely as it serves no real function of value that I can see; entertainment purposes being rather questionable, as well. The Top 100 is riddled with the same problems, and even though I identify that as a global gallery of some of the best work on the site, it still suffers from the same popularity issues that completely elude me. It often becomes a beacon of futile competition that frustrates more than serves it's initial purpose.

IO4 ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

It's ashame that some people abuse the voting system, eg just vote for their 'friends', or more than once. If there was a way to make the system fairer or more representative that would be great, but how could this work? A tough one I guess. I think alot of people don't know about the Hot 20 as well. I didn't until recently. I use it sometimes as another sort of gallery - I've sometimes seen pictures that I have missed in the gallery sections, so from that point of view I think it's good. I think a good first step would be to not allow anyone to vote for an image more than once.

DMFW ( posted at 12:00AM Mon, 16 January 2006

I've never made the Hot 20 and probably never will but I'm not going to get all bitter and twisted about it... Some good stuff turns up in there and it has drawn my attention to interesting new artists on several occasions so I wouldn't like to dispense with it, even with the problems other folks have pointed out. At the same time it's not the "be all and end all" of Renderosity and although I often look at the Hot 20, I browse the main galleries too as I know there are often gems hidden away there. I agree with jjean21 that no image should get a double vote from anyone across any time frame and maybe one image per artist is a good idea but other than that I think I'd leave it alone with all its imperfections. If you really don't pay attention to it, then no one is forced to look at it :-)