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DAZ|Studio F.A.Q (Updated: 2019 Feb 01 1:12 pm)


 Subject: Daz Studio 4.9 Big Changes Incoming!!

ghosty12 opened this issue on Oct 28, 2015 · 502 posts

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  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 6:22PM Sat, 07 November 2015 · edited on 6:31PM Sat, 07 November 2015 · @4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?



  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 6:57PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237415

@Writers_Block you will get no argument from me over the deletion of posts although I don't know what they contain if they are in breach of the Daz TOS then that is appropriate there are some posts on here that perhaps should have gone that way but I am giving some room to vent in a civil manner. If they are removing the posts because the questions are not to their liking then I would think that is not the best option and only serves to increase speculation.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 7:22PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237418

Male_M3dia posted at 1:18AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4236723

diogenese19348 posted at 1:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

It's not about increasing sales, DRM isn't a incentive to buy, it is for those that want to use it that did not pay for it or do not abide by the licensing agreement of the product. So it may not get people to buy it that would not buy it anyway, but it does attempt to protect more of the casual piracy that goes on and sends a message that this type of sharing isn't condoned where not protecting it in light of piracy sends a totally opposite message.

In the past, there was less of a need for certain things to be protected because of the ecosystem where sites, customers and the producer kept the whole thing honest or had a recourse to remove content that was illegal. If a file was illegally hosted, all the copyright user had to do was to make a request to take it down and the site abided by that, which in term kept the consumer ease of use high. However the system is broken to the point that the copyright holder has no choice but to add more protection to the product because the sites aren't honoring the take down notices, which then inconveniences the consumer.

This is the problem. People come to me and ask me to help them; they tell me what is happening and ask me to fix it. I start by asking questions. They tell me the problem, and in a round-about way so they don't feel insulted, I tell them what they are experiencing is a symptom; that symptom is causing them a problem - which is not the same thing. So Daz is trying to fix a symptom, not tackle the problem. Look at how to make sure take down notices are honoured.


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 7:29PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237420

Khory_D posted at 1:29AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237252

It has also been stated that content will continue to be available through account download and DIM.

Yes the only thing greater than contradictions have been the post removals.


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 7:40PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237421

Razor42 posted at 1:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

It is very easy to implement. Customers can use what products their subscription gives them access to. Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer... oh sorry, we forgot to mention that.


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 7:45PM Sat, 07 November 2015 · edited on 7:51PM Sat, 07 November 2015 · @4237422

LPR001 posted at 1:41AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237415

@Writers_Block you will get no argument from me over the deletion of posts although I don't know what they contain if they are in breach of the Daz TOS then that is appropriate there are some posts on here that perhaps should have gone that way but I am giving some room to vent in a civil manner. If they are removing the posts because the questions are not to their liking then I would think that is not the best option and only serves to increase speculation.

It is possible that some have breached.

This is what I suggest might have been done if they genuinely had nothing to hide: "There have been some posts that have breached our TOS, however, in the interest of honesty and to calm the obvious fears of our customers, we have taken the unusual step of relaxing those terms in this thread only. We will still, however, consider each and every post which has breached tos carefully. Those that are removed from this thread, we will email you as usual, but we will enclose the text and point out the specifics we are objecting to, thus allowing you to amend it.

Thank you for your understanding."

I made a post, suggesting that the reason for the DRM was weak, and wondered if it was there as a smoke screen; it vanished, naturally. The thing is, leaving it there would have done more to negate my post than deleting it did. Of course, not many saw it, it was not up more than a couple of hours.

But, I've given up using words, I'm trying dollars now.

Worst case scenario is I have some cash to spend on something else. 😀


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:51PM Sat, 07 November 2015 · edited on 8:58PM Sat, 07 November 2015 · @4237431

Writers_Block posted at 1:35PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237421

Razor42 posted at 1:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

It is very easy to implement. Customers can use what products their subscription gives them access to. Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer... oh sorry, we forgot to mention that.

Can it be done, Sure. Though what would be the advantages to Daz3D in doing so over the current system. Do you think it would make more customers come on board or lose custom in the long term. You're basically saying that you need to download every product to a scene without actually purchasing it. Wouldn't that just add more risk? Technically you could download to a scene, isolate and pirate without even needing to purchase the product? How would that be more secure? Also adding more data overhead to every customer and Daz3D whether paying or not. The system being described would create extremely difficult scenarios for how a vendor driven marketplace intrinsically works. Explain to me how you would see vendor payments work under the described scenario. Please explain how this system would attract more vendors?

Could Microsoft send malicious malware to every PC that has windows, yes. The question is why would they? Unless they want to destroy their business. Try to focus on the why they would do this rather than just the "if they could". Those answers don't make much sense in context.

As far as post deletions, go check the link about disinformation I posted. Relaxing of TOS to allow posts that disseminate disinformation or maybe just misinformation would be counter intuitive to say the least to a businesses long term interests. No?



  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 9:59PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237437

@Writers_Block Maybe they are trying to handle things the best way they can and they might not be used to quite a large onslaught. Are they given set things to say and nothing more that forces them into a corner with limited options. If you look at how I have handled this thread it could be said I could do with one of the Daz guys over here to help out for a while. But we are all adults and if it stays the course I have no reason to remove comments although some are little dodgy. Members appear to have sorted it. I have my own personal opinion as Johnny G that I put forward as a member free to be challenged by anybody who wishes to do so. If need be I will address an issue as moderator, the less I need to do this the better IMO, We are nearly out to chapter 10 of this sorry saga. Battered and bruised but at least everybody has had the opportunity to get it out their system, and that can only be a good thing..... It's better than bottling it up as they say. Have a great weekend

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 10:04PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237439

Now we are speculating about the speculation I think I am going to need a coffee for this.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 10:35PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237442

LPR001 posted at 3:22PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237439

Now we are speculating about the speculation I think I am going to need a coffee for this.

That's the name of the game in this thread isn't it? I would guess that most people expressing strong opinions of DS 4.9 here, haven't actually downloaded DS 4.9.

It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

But as you pointed out vents are important too.



  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 11:07PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237445

@Razor42 Yes going over and reading a bunch of mumbo jumbo on another forum and dragging it back is hardly going to give the software itself a fair hearing. Nor does it constitute fact in any way shape or form. I have 4.9 and it is silky smooth and understand DRM. Are you familiar with the show Days of our Lives?. I have to sit through that for 3-5 mins each night before news and I can tell ya remarkable similarities a lot of crying going on but I can never work out why. Unfortunately some people who are not right up on the tech side of things and just want to dabble, enjoy and cut a few renders can be easily mislead into believing all the horror stories and the sky is falling in.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  pendraia    ( ) ( posted at 11:27PM Sat, 07 November 2015  · @4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 12:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 12:51AM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237454

pendraia posted at 4:50PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

That's mostly true and I do believe that is what is fuelling a lot of the speculation about in this case.

But it is a fact that we live in a world full of uncertainties. And in a lot of cases it's hard to provide an absolute answer. It really comes down to likelihoods and risk assessment in most case examples. Which most will need to assess on their own.

Ask yourself: Will it rain tomorrow? Will a meteor hit the planet? Will I win the lottery? Will my plane crash? Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect?

All of these have a risk factor or likelihood associated. All of them are potentially possible. We each make millions of decisions each day that have an inherent risk association in even something so simple as crossing a road. If you stood on the side of the road and calculated the amount of risk in doing so it's likely you would never actually cross as so many things could go wrong from a drunk driver running the light, a malfunctioning traffic light or even as simple as a footwear malfunction. Yet most people still cross the road relatively stress free and live to tell the tale.

Some cases, I am seeing are like saying "Can you guarantee that I will always cross the road safely?" and there is only one actual answer possible "No I cannot guarantee you will" most people accept that as a known risk and act to mitigate and move on. Others may see that as an indication that it is in fact unsafe to cross the road and highly likely to lead to misadventure and refuse to do so from that point. Yet if someone said to me "Are you crazy? You could die crossing that road." I would in turn do my own risk assessment and if I found that the risk was low and there was no actual foundation for being afraid to cross that road on that occasion. I would cross the road and probably think that the person was a little irrational. If the next day I seen them wearing a placard and handing out flyers saying crossing the road is the biggest threat to mankind I would definitely think it's time for the white jackets to do a pickup. In the case of crossing the road we all know the hazard that creates the risk and we are taught from an early age the ways of mitigating that risk. Look both ways etc etc. Most in turn see the risk as very low, yet people do die most days doing just that.

And while it may seem like I'm just rambling, which wouldn't be unusual, my point is there are some about that are actually inflating the risk to levels where it comes across as unreasonable speculation bordering on disinformation. Almost to the point it's like saying "Did you know you can get AIDS from using Windows computers? I seen a report the other day about the dangers of computer viruses and a large percentage are known to be infected, so if I was you I wouldn't take any chances with those computers especially with Windows." how do you answer a statement like that?

Questions are always welcome and most here will do their best to provide answers or at least opinions.

And to answer my own questions: Will it rain tomorrow? Maybe. Will a meteor hit the planet? Possibly. Will I win the lottery? Possible but unlikely. Will my plane crash? Also possible but unlikely. Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect? I'll ask my doctor and get his opinion.



  pendraia    ( ) ( posted at 12:58AM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 1:00AM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237456

Razor42 posted at 5:42PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237454

pendraia posted at 4:50PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

That's mostly true and I do believe that is what is fuelling a lot of the speculation about in this case.

But it is a fact that we live in a world full of uncertainties. And in a lot of cases it's hard to provide an absolute answer. It really comes down to likelihoods and risk assessment in most case examples. Which most will need to assess on their own.

Ask yourself: Will it rain tomorrow? Will a meteor hit the planet? Will I win the lottery? Will my plane crash? Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect?

All of these have a risk factor or likelihood associated. All of them are potentially possible. We each make millions of decisions each day that have an inherent risk association in even something so simple as crossing a road. If you stood on the side of the road and calculated the amount of risk in doing so it's likely you would ever actually cross as so many things could go wrong from a drunk driver running the light, a malfunctioning traffic light right or even as simple as a footwear malfunction. Yet most people still cross the road relatively stress free and live to tell the tale.

Some cases, I am seeing are like saying "Can you guarantee that I will always cross the road safely?" and there is only one actual answer possible "No I cannot guarantee you will" most people accept that as a known risk and act to mitigate and move on. Others may see that as an indication that is in fact unsafe to cross the road and highly likely to lead to misadventure and refuse to do so from that point. Yet if someone said to me "Are you crazy? You could die crossing that road." I would in turn do my own risk assessment and if I found that the risk was low and there was no actual foundation for being afraid to cross that road on that ocassion. I would cross the road and probably think that the person was a little irrational. If the next day I seen them wearing a placard and handing out flyers saying crossing the road is the biggest threat to mankind I would definitely think it's time for the white jackets to do a pickup. In the case of crossing the road we all know the hazard that creates the risk and we are taught from an early age the ways of mitigating that risk. Look both ways etc etc. Most in turn see the risk as very low, yet people do die most days doing just that.

And while it may seem like I'm just rambling, which wouldn't be unusual, my point is there are some about that are actually inflating the risk to levels where it comes across as unreasonable speculation bordering on disinformation. Almost to the point it's like saying "Did you know you can get AIDS from using windows computers? I seen a report the other day about the danger of computer viruses and a large percent are infected, so if I was you I wouldn't take any chances." how do you answer a statement like that?

Questions are always welcome and most here will do their best to provide answers or at least opinions.

And to answer my own questions: Will it rain tomorrow? Maybe. Will a meteor hit the planet? Possibly. Will I win the lottery? Possible but unlikely. Will my plane crash? Also possible but unlikely. Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect? I'll ask my doctor and get his opinion.

lol...some even say I'll wait and see if there are any cars coming, check and then cross. Which is my stance at the moment. I'm unsure how this will pan out so I'll take my time before trying and see what feedback others who are more willing to take risks have to say.

In regards to lottery winning both my sister-in-laws have won large lottery wins so definitely possible. ; )

From reading this thread I'd say you're right there are lots of opinions stated without having all the facts but sometimes we have to develop opinions without having the facts as you stated above.

I think the thing to remember is that more than one opinion can be valid when viewed from the perspective of the person holding that opinion. Vendors like yourself would have a very different viewpoint of Daz than someone who is a hobbyist. Doesn't make either viewpoint wrong just from different perspectives. There was even a subject on this when I did my teaching course called multiliteracies.

I would imagine that understanding a customers perspective would help a vendor to improve how they market their products but not being a vendor myself that's only an opinion and could be proved wrong. I do know though that I feel for vendors who have to deal with piracy of their products as I understand that for many the income is what supports them and their families. I do have doubts though about the effectiveness of the measures that Daz is thinking about using.

Also as a teacher I'm very passionate that we can all learn and to see Daz Connect promoted because Daz are saying that users can't find content strikes me as being the wrong thing to do on many levels. We were all new to this at one point and we all had to learn how to install and find content. I worry that Daz Connects long term impact will be to lower the skill level of the community.

As you can see I have a number of concerns ranging from my own use e.g. Can I edit files in Notepad ++ to the whole pedagogy behind the move.

edited to fix grammar...sorry brain dead after writing reports all day.


  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 1:43AM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237457

@Razor Kid just got hit by a car and someone just took a shot at another plane so you might want to up the risk factor a few levels on those two. But very well said anyways

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 2:20AM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 2:32AM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237459

Of course the value of debate is never to be underestimated even when there is no clear winner or a right or wrong side. Sometimes discussion can bring out new perspectives or possibilities that were not obvious before some detailed pro's and cons were put forward from both sides of the equation. And I would never be one to discourage active debate or the expression of opposing viewpoint to my own.

And you're definitely right, It's a valuable exercise for a vendor to see through the eyes of their customers and there definitely is a lot to be learned from doing so. One thing on that that I found a bit of a strange paradox as a vendor. Is when working on a product it's easy to get into a mode of thinking that I will make something that the customers will want and in turn will sell well, so after lots of research and market assessment a project is started. After a lot work when launched it flops hard. The paradox is that it's often not what you anticipate or research tells you will sell well. Usually if a vendor instead creates something that they want and enjoy themselves the passion will shine through and customers will also see that in the product. So in turn most successful PA are not just sellers they are also Daz Studio users and also customers in their own right. Actually having a similar eye to issues as customers, more so than many seem to think. And at the end of the day what both parties want is very similar "a strong platform for our passion,"

One thing to note with Piracy and how vendors think about it is that it's not sheerly a monetary thing. A lot of the frustration is in seeing something that you worked so hard on stolen so easily and distributed with lack of regard to the your wishes. A little like seeing a bit of artwork of yours being used on an outrightly racist website. What do you lose from that monetary wise, would it concern you if that happened to you? How would you feel if you contacted the website and asked them to remove it, as it was being used without your consent, and you were just ignored and laughed at and to rub salt into the wound you were told by others "well you just need to accept it". So it's not only a monetary issue. And it's also not a win or lose scenario with piracy. It's about taking reasonable steps to provide a reasonable level of protection even if some see it as only a speed bump ,it will still impact casual piracy of Daz connect products. Daz script files have been encrypted for a long time? Did it ever impact your usage of them that you noticed? Have you heard anyone complain about it?

As far as dumbing down the program base I do see a bit of conflict in how people say, I prefer to manage my own database of content in the OS. But you know what they usually complain about the most? "how vendors put things in their products into stupid folder structures." You think this would be giving them what they want right ;) In my opinion it's not a case of dumbing down, it's an attempt at easing the entry barriers for new users and providing an inline solution to manage content. Many users have been involved for years and what seems like basic knowledge for them is often a steep learning curve for a new user. These programs have been growing in complexity year after year and when faced with incremental change, it's not a huge thing in itself. But for a new user it has become a steeper and steeper barrier to actually using these programs to do what they're intended to do, create art. Most consumers these days have grown used to apps where you click download then you get an icon and you click that and you're off and running. Juggling file structures into a foreign set up of nested folders is beginning to seem antiquated and to many a frustrating opening the door process. WIth my store at Renderosity over 90% off customers that contacted me over the years had one issue. How do I install this? A good content platform developer should recognise this as a significant issue and act to mitigate it. Really at the end of the day, what most people are seeing is their years of building a personal content management system could be becoming redundant, but really is that what this hobby is really about? I can see though the thought of this could be quite daunting and frustrating to many who have been doing if for years with 100's of gigs of content. Though many who do attempt this "New way" of doing things will in time see more benefits than negatives from the process IMO. These are all issues that have also been discussed with Daz3D by the vendors.

Any files that you save yourself will be entirely editable in Notepad. Some PA created content may not be in the future.

Congrats on your lottery wins too :D Some people seem to have all the luck!



  Khory_D    ( ) ( posted at 2:37AM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237460

In past experience the implementation of simple, small updates have led to a downturn in quality. It turns into meeting a time line release before insuring that all the kinks are worked out. I.e. it is easy to fall into the trap of "let's see what happens, we can always fix it quick."

As they say in the commercial.. that is not how any of this works. First of all before a product is submitted it is finished and has the promos done. You can't rush after, you have to have done all that rushing before it even gets submitted. Nor are products submitted and accepted with a "lets see what happens" attitude. They better see how it works up front in the promos or they won't accept it. Humans can make make mistakes. This will just get those fixed faster since there is less packaging and stuff that has to be done.

Funny how you address everything except what I'm most annoyed at. Deleted posts.

Because I didn't notice it. But I will address it now. The simple fact is people on forums do stupid things. They troll, they say mean things, they cast aspersions at other people, they make direct attacks, and other wise try and pick fights. They use bad words, or use questionable slang, or don't think through what they are saying. They will say things that are not the best choices legally. There are many reasons that posts get pulled. They also get pulled when other people report them for example. Your insinuating that there is something dishonest.. actually no your saying it is dishonest to pull posts. Do the mods delete posts? Yes they do and for all the reasons I listed and more. But there is nothing dishonest in it. Anyone can look at how many dissenting posts there are to tell that they don't pull them just because people disagree, or complain, or even ask the same thing that they know is not true for the half dozenth time.

I bet you want to say that they only pull "some" peoples posts. Well I am telling you right now that is not the case. Not unless I am one of those "some" people you were thinking about. I regularly get posts pulled. Yep, sometimes I rise to the bait (obviously) and get carried away. Do I feel singled out or like they are hiding something just because they have protected someone from my wrath? Not so much. I had a post pulled last week because I talked about thieves. Bet you can figure out what I was talking about. And yea I guess it was needlessly inflammatory. That was not the first post I have ever had pulled and I seriously doubt it will be the last.

Now looking at what you said here that pulling posts "suggests something dishonest". I suspect that if you said that about another brokerage over there they would indeed pull that post. Why? Because it is edging toward slander. I am also sure that they would pull the posts of any mod or pa who chimed in even slightly on the dishonesty thing because they don't want the company to be placed at risk. Nothing dishonest, just CYA.

_ Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer..._

Um.. well your making nightmare work for an accounting department that would be larger than the whole company put together right now. And how would it work with the content that people already own? How would that factor into the math? Because that can't change. And how will it navigate user created products and products from other brokerages? How will it break down per use of thousands of individual products by hundreds of individuals and still turn a profit? How many man hours would it take to break every single product down into parts so that they could do the accounting on what got used? How would they convince hundreds of individuals to throw into the plan? How would they ever hope to expand the market the way they currently can with a "free to play" scheme? It would simply ruin all the work they have done to figure out how to bring in new users to the market. When adobe starts charging by the paint brush use we can revisit this because I guess then the accounting tech may be developed enough to even consider it. But until then this is just.. well you know.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

  FlagonsWorkshop    ( ) ( posted at 1:48PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237500

Morpheon posted at 1:24PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4236799

"Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted."

Must have missed those when I was still following that thread, or they posted such after I dropped out. The only content creator I was aware of was Zev0, and he was all for it.

There was at least one that I recall that specifically said they would not take part. Zev0 is an interesting case, I buy a lot of his stuff, it's extremely useful. But Zev0 writes mainly scripts, which actually I have no problem with encrypting - I'm never going to need to alter them. And in fact DAZ has used DRM for plugins before - you need installation keys to get them to work.

I don't have problems with DRM as long as it doesn't get in the way of me using content I have paid for, and DAZ is bending over backwards to assure us that isn't going to happen - for obvious reasons. My bigger concern, which they are also addressing, is that they not screw up my filing system - smart content has never worked well for me, and until I can be certain a database change on their end is not going to wipe out weeks of custom category work I did I rather manage my content through a folder system.

As I said, enough people raised that issue that they are taking another look at the idea of putting everything in the data folder which frankly I think was brain dead to start with.

I was at one time an avid music collector. I still listened to a lot of it when they went to CD's. Then MP3's came along, and suddenly the music industry was up in arms, adding all sorts of garbage that got in the way of me playing music I had bought the rights to listen to. The height of that was an MP3 player I bought, and used Rhapsody on (the other services were just as bad at the time). Rhapsody would allow you to download music for a monthly fee, and you had to sync your device once a month. Well half the time when I tried to sync the MP3 player it would corrupt, I'd need to reformat it, and re-download 8 GB of music. Frankly at this point I only listen to, and buy from Indie bands.

Movie DRM is every bit as tight, and frankly you never notice it. If you buy a DVD you can play it on any device you own. You can't make copies of it, but you never paid to do so. The only consideration is if the price they charge for the DVD is worth the content on it. That's your decision.

If I am paying you for content, the pirates are your problem. Don't ask me to accommodate for what you feel is necessary to battle them. As long as I can use my legally licensed content in the way I am used to, I'm fine with whatever DRM scheme you come up with. As soon as that scheme impacts me, the worth of licensing content from you is diminished.

I hope DAZ keeps that in mind. They're going to lose a lot of customers if they don't. With their present set up of providing the program for free, and paying for development with content sales, they can't afford that. Wherever you stand on DRM, those are the facts.


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 5:10PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237517

Razor42 posted at 11:09PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237431

Writers_Block posted at 1:35PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237421

Razor42 posted at 1:38AM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237410

So, the "distribution of content would be a nighmare" lie, is just that, a lie, since a cloud-based application is all about not distributing either content or execution (and Razor42 is certainly well aware of this).

It's still content distribution whether it is installed on your hard drive or lives in a cloud somewhere for your use. And pointing out two apps that are of a totally different type is kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Daz Studio is not a 3d modelling app which can work cloud based much more easily, it's a content platform which is much harder to implement as cloud based successfully. Spotify is cloud based, It doesn't mean there is any advantage to Apple turning to a full cloud based solution for itunes. If Daz Connect did evolve as you speculate into a cloud base solution, I would unfortunately not be able to use the platform at that point, as I live in the country and for me to download 2-3 gigs for a scene would take somewhere between 3-4 hrs and consume a large chunk of my monthly data allowance. So Daz3D's grand plan is to make their program unusable for a good percentage of their customers and PA's. You really haven't thought this through have you?

You're implying that DAZ3D are willing to put piracy protection over user experience to the degree it would make the app unusable and there business vulnerable. That's just irrational nonsense. So any actual data to back your story up or we just need to rely on your gut instinct for this future of Overlord Daz who is going to spoil everybodies fun? No DRM is 100% ironclad, No company ever has expected there DRM to be 100% ironclad forever, Do companies use DRM still to protect their content. Yes!

Frankly, I find most of your last post to be full of rambling and disinformation and quite insulting really insinuating that I am dumb, naive and a Liar seems like you are just trying to fire me up. But honestly I have work to do today :) If you have anything more solid than your gut instinct or internal doom and gloom radar. Let me know.

Have a look here: Disinformation, ring any bells?

It is very easy to implement. Customers can use what products their subscription gives them access to. Those products can be placed in a scene, and when they have them arranged as they want - they hit render. Please authorise this payment to download the finished render to your computer... oh sorry, we forgot to mention that.

Can it be done, Sure. Though what would be the advantages to Daz3D in doing so over the current system. Do you think it would make more customers come on board or lose custom in the long term. You're basically saying that you need to download every product to a scene without actually purchasing it. Wouldn't that just add more risk? Technically you could download to a scene, isolate and pirate without even needing to purchase the product? How would that be more secure? Also adding more data overhead to every customer and Daz3D whether paying or not. The system being described would create extremely difficult scenarios for how a vendor driven marketplace intrinsically works. Explain to me how you would see vendor payments work under the described scenario. Please explain how this system would attract more vendors?

Could Microsoft send malicious malware to every PC that has windows, yes. The question is why would they? Unless they want to destroy their business. Try to focus on the why they would do this rather than just the "if they could". Those answers don't make much sense in context.

As far as post deletions, go check the link about disinformation I posted. Relaxing of TOS to allow posts that disseminate disinformation or maybe just misinformation would be counter intuitive to say the least to a businesses long term interests. No?

Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possble to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer.


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 5:15PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237519

Razor42 posted at 11:12PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237442

LPR001 posted at 3:22PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237439

Now we are speculating about the speculation I think I am going to need a coffee for this.

That's the name of the game in this thread isn't it? I would guess that most people expressing strong opinions of DS 4.9 here, haven't actually downloaded DS 4.9.

It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

But as you pointed out vents are important too.

I have. It works fine without the smart content. The smart content is a pain to redownload, and the system to sort, well don't want to spend weeks sorting it out - that's too much like work. Outside of the smart content/encrypted content, it seems fine with bug fixes and a slight increase in render speed.


  Writers_Block    ( ) ( posted at 5:20PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237520

Razor42 posted at 11:18PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237454

pendraia posted at 4:50PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237448

[Razor42]> It's been for the most part pure speculation over potential negative future direction (however unlikely), worst case scenario's and viewpoints of generalised DRM as a whole (Not Daz Encryption specific). With very little actual experience driven feedback.

Many, myself included, don't do betas. So the only way we can get answers to our questions is to ask. When the answers aren't clear it fuels speculation..

That's mostly true and I do believe that is what is fuelling a lot of the speculation about in this case.

But it is a fact that we live in a world full of uncertainties. And in a lot of cases it's hard to provide an absolute answer. It really comes down to likelihoods and risk assessment in most case examples. Which most will need to assess on their own.

Ask yourself: Will it rain tomorrow? Will a meteor hit the planet? Will I win the lottery? Will my plane crash? Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect?

All of these have a risk factor or likelihood associated. All of them are potentially possible. We each make millions of decisions each day that have an inherent risk association in even something so simple as crossing a road. If you stood on the side of the road and calculated the amount of risk in doing so it's likely you would never actually cross as so many things could go wrong from a drunk driver running the light, a malfunctioning traffic light or even as simple as a footwear malfunction. Yet most people still cross the road relatively stress free and live to tell the tale.

Some cases, I am seeing are like saying "Can you guarantee that I will always cross the road safely?" and there is only one actual answer possible "No I cannot guarantee you will" most people accept that as a known risk and act to mitigate and move on. Others may see that as an indication that it is in fact unsafe to cross the road and highly likely to lead to misadventure and refuse to do so from that point. Yet if someone said to me "Are you crazy? You could die crossing that road." I would in turn do my own risk assessment and if I found that the risk was low and there was no actual foundation for being afraid to cross that road on that occasion. I would cross the road and probably think that the person was a little irrational. If the next day I seen them wearing a placard and handing out flyers saying crossing the road is the biggest threat to mankind I would definitely think it's time for the white jackets to do a pickup. In the case of crossing the road we all know the hazard that creates the risk and we are taught from an early age the ways of mitigating that risk. Look both ways etc etc. Most in turn see the risk as very low, yet people do die most days doing just that.

And while it may seem like I'm just rambling, which wouldn't be unusual, my point is there are some about that are actually inflating the risk to levels where it comes across as unreasonable speculation bordering on disinformation. Almost to the point it's like saying "Did you know you can get AIDS from using Windows computers? I seen a report the other day about the dangers of computer viruses and a large percentage are known to be infected, so if I was you I wouldn't take any chances with those computers especially with Windows." how do you answer a statement like that?

Questions are always welcome and most here will do their best to provide answers or at least opinions.

And to answer my own questions: Will it rain tomorrow? Maybe. Will a meteor hit the planet? Possibly. Will I win the lottery? Possible but unlikely. Will my plane crash? Also possible but unlikely. Do I have an undiagnosed heart defect? I'll ask my doctor and get his opinion.

I agree there has been a lot of speculation; it has been drastically helped by the number of deleted posts.

So you ask you doctor about your heart; he sticks his fingers in his ears (effectively deleting your conversation) and you're left wondering why?


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 6:00PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 6:05PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237527

Actually, what I'm saying is that it would be possible to do without anyone ever downloading content to their computer.

Possible - maybe, Likelihood - about as high as getting struck by lightning while gardening in your bunny pajamas IMO

I have. It works fine without the smart content. The smart content is a pain to redownload, and the system to sort, well don't want to spend weeks sorting it out - that's too much like work. Outside of the smart content/encrypted content, it seems fine with bug fixes and a slight increase in render speed.

What smart content were you redownloading? Do you mean metadata? Metadata should be a fairly small download if that's the case. It has actually been recommended to wait for the RC before attempting to redownload your entire library as there will be a direct bridge from your installed content to DC.

So which questions did you have that were deleted may I ask?



  Khory_D    ( ) ( posted at 8:23PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237549

"I agree there has been a lot of speculation; it has been drastically helped by the number of deleted posts.

So you ask you doctor about your heart; he sticks his fingers in his ears (effectively deleting your conversation) and you're left wondering why?"

You left out the part where the doctor has already told you a dozen times what to do about your heart and you just keep asking the him if you could get heart cancer.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:25PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 8:26PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237550

  Khory_D    ( ) ( posted at 8:26PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237551

" Do you mean metadata? Metadata should be a fairly small download if that's the case. It has actually been recommended to wait for the RC before attempting to redownload your entire library as there will be a direct bridge from your installed content to DC."

I did run the maintenance/re-download the meta data. I had nothing to loose because my old smart content was such a mess I had never used it. It took about 2 minutes total and it was all copacetic for the first time ever.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

  Tony_Stark    ( ) ( posted at 8:39PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 9:10PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 9:11PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237558

Tony_Stark posted at 1:56PM Mon, 09 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

No offense, but I pretty much disagree with your entire statement. DIM has been widely adopted by far the majority of DS users and for many DIM takes a lot of the Database management side out of the equation for them, making it actually a lot easier to focus on making art. Which seems to be what you're asking for in your last statement? So really your issue with DIM is the folder arrangement behind the scenes, that most users would never actually see if they use Smart content to manage their content? But you choose to unzip and place your content manually because you don't like smart content, which causes you to have issue with the folder structure?

In effect Daz Connect will make folder naming conventions pretty much irrelevant for Daz3D content. As content management will be handled inline and be more flexible to personal preferences and arrangement, without needing to have the argument about whether that vanity folder is necessary or not. Smart content works alongside of your normal Content Library and makes it easier for most to build a scene without having to remember in what exact folder or the vendor name for that pair of shoes.

You could even argue, it's not Smart Content that is dumb it's your old content.

Here is a statement I made earlier in the thread:

As far as dumbing down the program base I do see a bit of conflict in how people say, I prefer to manage my own database of content in the OS. But you know what they usually complain about the most? "how vendors put things in their products into stupid folder structures." You think this would be giving them what they want right ;)



  Khory_D    ( ) ( posted at 9:57PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237565

Tony_Stark posted at 10:43PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

I have seriously loved DIM. I really don't want to fart around installing stuff if I don't have to and I actually really like where DIM installs my Studio stuff. I will never understand people who put more time into organizing content than using content. Nor will I ever understand the concept of a dozen or more "runtimes" (which of course is not even correct phrasing for studio organization) with everything spread hither and yon. I don't want to run from place to place to load things I want it all right there where I can get it as fast as possible. DIM installs it and there it is for me. Actually I feel the same way about connect which I am using. It installs it and I can work. I like things simple and fast.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 10:29PM Sun, 08 November 2015  · @4237570

If anything the Smart Content has a big improvement in 4.9 I have seen a lot of comments from long time users not so keen on the Smart Content system ever since introduced. I always felt it was good in principle it was just a half effort type arrangement it now appears now to be very effective. A lot of the members comments on this thread and others seem to be more talking about Daz 5.7 then wonder why they are not getting answers. If somebody told me 5 years ago we would not have a car manufacturer left in Australia in the next 10 years I would have said don't be an idiot we have 8 there has to be a clear winner. I think by end of next year we will have none, all gone. Things change deal with it. I only have the one concern with the update and that is where they said you can't move the content. My computer is full of software which can get very heavy and bloated. How I have it set up today will need an adjustment a 3-4 times a year My other DRM encoded software which is most I can still pick up entire folders and move them to a external drive tell the software where it is and it takes it from there. It is not a IP I am moving address nor a name change by deed poll it is DRM encoded content and changing the path on a computer talking to Daz via connect so I am a little confused considering it only has one entry exit point the computer name and details collected by Daz on install. I have a reasonably healthy size hard drive but this week alone I would have downloaded 15-20 gigs from the Daz/UE4 store. I guess as long as I can add a external drive and point it the same from Daz for new installs of content that is workaround. That is the part I am most concerned with. Anybody in 3D animation cutting AVI files will know when you put a 3TB drive in your PC and think that will last forever is back at the store a 3-4 times a year if things are slow. I am concerned about the mega gigs of Daz on my main computer as up until now it was always temporary. I have not had chance to chase it up but it is what I read myself so it wasn't second hand news. Although I read it as from a point onward not what I had already I could be wrong. If I am let me know.

I will be the first to admit I am a Daz fan and bias towards the product the software is not my main but it's flexibility makes it kind of a massive plugin. One at this point I could not do without. I challenge anybody to point me in the direction of better content of such quality, theme and variety from the PA's. Both there, here anywhere content is available through proper channels And if you buy right very cost effective.

@diogenese19348 As for the music industry some of the Indie music getting around is is equally as good as the commercial so you are not missing out on anything :-) In a lot of cases better because they are trying harder struggled harder usually a band's 1st album is their best. There is a lot more pressing issues in the music industry than the just the DRM. Someone born today could possibly die at 100 and never have paid for a single track and do so legally. It doesn't do much for us labels but it is a fact of life today. Occasionally a few times a year the musicians can afford a hamburger...... If we loan them the money. Daz should throw everything it has at product protection with the least amount of impact on the user as possible. If I am paying my good money so should everybody else. If the PA's spend all their time achieving the content I see they have the right to the protection. I am even willing to take a hit of a second or two load time while online or Daz checking my content in the background while I have the app open to ensure my content is all legit. I have nothing to hide I pay for everything that is on my drive except legit freebies which I appreciate too. I just hope we don't lose the functionality and freedoms we enjoy now but I think every Daz user would want that and I don't think Daz would want to take them away either it is what made the brand.

Granted I am commercial so it wouldn't be good business practice knocking stuff off all over the web or in the real world. I can't see me doing things any differently if retired.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 10:41PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · edited on 10:47PM Sun, 08 November 2015 · @4237573

Khory_D posted at 11:32PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237565

Tony_Stark posted at 10:43PM Sun, 08 November 2015 - #4237554

I think DAZ's biggest mistake was when they abandoned the individual installers and went to DIM. They totally bungled the whole thing. DIM never totally caught up with DAZ's change in folder structure. DIM still has zip files that put everything under the Content folder. Then DIM moves most stuff out of the Content folder as it's being installed. Just unzip a few of their install files and you'll see! DAZ failed to adopt any standard naming and placement guidelines. DAZ says you don't need to find something easily. Just use Smart Content or Search! Smart Content is dumb. It doesn't show everything I have.

I don't want my content Categorized. I don't want to fool with metadata. I just want to Make Art!

I have seriously loved DIM. I really don't want to fart around installing stuff if I don't have to and I actually really like where DIM installs my Studio stuff. I will never understand people who put more time into organizing content than using content. Nor will I ever understand the concept of a dozen or more "runtimes" (which of course is not even correct phrasing for studio organization) with everything spread hither and yon. I don't want to run from place to place to load things I want it all right there where I can get it as fast as possible. DIM installs it and there it is for me. Actually I feel the same way about connect which I am using. It installs it and I can work. I like things simple and fast.

Agreed. Anyone that doesn't like DIM simply doesn't buy enough content to see the where it comes to play. Right now I have 5 iray shader products queued up to download and install about 5 gigs worth of data in addition to the 15 other products (and product updates I get notified through DIM) I will drop in that I bought this week. It was an absolute nightmare to download those and go through the multiple clicks to install content (including agreeing to the EULA every single time), much less know which products got updated. Now I can simply set what I want to download in a batch, start it up and go to be and everything will be installed when I get up. Most people do just want to make their art, not get into the intricacies of downloading and setting up content; they just want it to work as soon as they buy it with as little hassle as possible. Even the idea around genesis is set up around the ease of use (no more injections for instance).


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