Actually, I find Saluda rather disappointing in this respect at least with V1. The model may have morphs that affect the centre of the crotch, but the front of the hip in the pubic area remains incorrect. Unless, of course, I'm somehow using the wrong settings. The only results I could ever get looked made her hip look like a football with little wings sprouting out of it. Silly. A distinction needs to be drawn between V1 and V2, but this thread is getting too long. I'm restarting it.

It could be that people at DAZ take an occasional look at these pages. Right now they are probably working on a Vicky 2.1, and WITH morph and unmorph genitalia. A minor hindrance is that it will have to be accessed with a special code downloadable from the internet, but most likely they will relent and ask that in return people use their vigilance to report unauthorised use of the feature. I wonder what the record is for the longest thread? I wonder what the record is for the longest thread? I wonder what the record is for the longest thread?

Unless Daz has changed it's position on this matter ddmwm, they have no intentions of creating realistically modelled genitalia for Vicki or any other model. That is their right and their priveledge. We as modellers then can fill in where they left off :)

You beat me to the punch, Mendhi. I have Saluda, and was quite pleased. If you need a Vicky with genetalia, I think she works wonderful. I bought her for that reason because I needed them for a brocure I was doing for (no shit) a gynocologist. As a woman myself, I am quite fond of our little genetalia. But I understand that Daz doesn't want to add them, and that is their choice. My need for genetalia is restricted, so it is not a giant concern of mine. Vicky2 has come along with giving the illusion of them. I don't know if anyone saw the Seven of Clubs I did for the playing card project. But with just straight Vicky2, unintentially also, I might add, from the back shot it looks very much like vicky has some 'lips' showing down there. If you want Vicky to have genitals, I really recommend Saluda. If you don't, then lets just take the stock Vicky, and everyone can be happy. To each their own is what I say. I am just tired of hearing people complain that we shouldn't have genitals because there is no valid use for them except for porn. Heck, even if that is what someone wants it for, isn't that their choice anyway? I don't do much work with nudity. But that is only because I have a two and a half year old that sits beside me when Mommy works most of the time. But I have no problem with it at all. And one day when my son is a little older, I will not be so worried about it. But now he thinks all of those women on Mommys computer are her (pretty complimentary, I guess ;) so I refrain. The nude body is a beautiful thing. Both male and female. There should be no reason that you shouldn't use an anotomically correct model in 3D if you want. Don't we use anotomically correct people in traditional art work. I know I have. We have choices. Don't condescend others if they make a choice you don't agree with. Daz doesn't have to provide us with genitals. I don't see a need why they should. For those who don't want them, Vicky is just fine. But for those of us who do, there are alot of wonderful people out there who have provided them for us.

smiles widely RealitysPoison, when I made Saluda, (and was describing why I still don't have a "real job" to my Mom who is a nurse for my brother and sisterinlaw the Doctors), I said, "I am making a model so realistic, so physically accurate, that someday she will be used in medical illustrations..." and that was my dream. That she might serve not only for lovely artistic renders, but also for the medical community. When I set about finding a tester, it was important to me that at least one of my testers be a female, and a nurse, or someone who could verify for me medical accuracy, and set out to find one, which was I am proud to say, Marque, who now still tests for me to this day. Your posts this morning have really made my day. Just when I was feeling a bit down and tired (head cold, don't you know)... thank you so much.

A-damn-men. Leave it to the ladies to interject some sanity into this weird thread. :-) Cheers! Mark

Yup, You know that's what us ladies are for. ;) Of course I don't ever think I heard sanity in the same sentence with my name before. LOL

"I wonder what the record is for the longest thread? " Er... as of the current date, the record is STILL 780 odd [and I do mean odd] posts, and almost 2 megs of HTML. It's buried back in the tavern... [where else?] And no, I'm not going to toss my 2 coppers in on the rest of the topic. ;]

Was that in this forum? I was thinking of the 130+ Curious Labs Poser Pro Upgrade thread. Then there was this paste-from-clipboard wobbly. There are two new threads on the same subject.

No, the 780 post thread is in the back of the Virtual Tavern forum. I've only seen one other thread that went close in number of posts [234+], and that was in C&D.

if you don't want genitals don't use them if you do then use them If daz doesn't want to include them. They don't have to. If you want to make them .. then do If you are a parent with a kid at home who uses poser and they create sexually explicit scenes then you need to sit down with your kid and explain the birds and the bees. If at 18 they don't know what sex is you are friggin lucky but baby it's time to tell them. If you create sexually explicit scenes with poser POWER to you :) I am an erotic artist. That's what I get paid for by my clients and I am not ashamed of it in the least. If you want to do clothed figures show of breasts.. whatever but don't want genitals.. then don't use them. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying Use the genitals use them now. don't bitch at those of us who do because we are artists too. Whether you think we are or not. end of common sense rant

Hiya Stormrage. ;] As a tech, I'm one of the worlds worst for taking a company apart for not delivering something it promised... but I went and looked at all the Vicki2 promo stuff on Daz's site, and nowhere could I find where they were promising a realistic genital set for Vicki2. In all fairness, I can't see taking a company to task for not delivering something it didn't promise, if that makes sense. [Had to reread it - the phrasing seemed a little odd... ] There are some realistic genital add-ons and morphs for posette, and for the Eve figures, as I think may have been stated farther up the thread. Personally, while I've been working with Vicki2, I prefer posette. If I have a need for something anatomically correct, I'd probably use one of the add-ons or morphs I mentioned. There are a number of legetimate gripes that could be made on Vicki2, but not giving us something they never promised isn't one of them.

Heya IronBear S

I am pleased that Mendhi considered the medical industry and will look into purchasing Saluda. Has anyone tried to simulate the camel-toe effect with tight jeans using Saluda?

don't bitch at those of us who do because we are artists too. Whether you think we are or not.<<< Well said Stormrage I totally agree with you, however, isn't the converse also true? As in, don't bitch at those who don't because they are artists too... :) Just a thought.

LOL Questor.. i never bitch about those who don't.. I greatly admire many of the artists here. Rotica and commune who don't create sexual images. I have seen fantastic images here and everywhere else.. but frankly it is the erotic artist who people look down upon. I don't create porno. i create erotic art. that's why i made that comment. but to validify it.. "don't bitch at those of us who do because we are artists too. Whether you think we are or not. Just as we won't bitch at you because you don't use the genitals. ALL of us are artists. we just create different art."

The nude female body including the genitalia I believe is beautiful, to almost all men and many women. If not we probably wouldn't exist as a populous human race. Modern western society has created an artificial taboo on it. Despite this, sex/nudity sells, it is something that will never be stopped. I have V1, V2, Saluda and Eve. I have to say that although Saluda is good I was disappointed it was not as "capable" and realistic as Eve in the gen area. On the other hand V1 & V2 are far better body/face models than the Posette based Eve. Jaager/Mehndi can Saluda be upgraded to Eve level gens? (BTW Thanx Jaager for Saluda update e-mail.) That has not been a problem for my art that is suitable for Renderosity level exposure, but for not for more (open minded) adult oriented ART. Yes it is ART, see definition of the word ART from the American Heritage dictionary below. Even explicit depictions of nudity can qualify under all 3 definitions if executed well. art1 (t) n. 1) Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature. 2) The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium. The study of these activities. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group. 3)High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.

There are many morphs for genitalia for Vicki/Millie that Jaager has created that can be added to Saluda to achieve the range of versatility you may seek David that you found in the various Eve morphs out there. When deciding what to include in the package, my aim was not to include all possible genital morphs that Jaager had ever done, but instead a nice subsampling one could play around with, as well as the overall full body genital morph applied to Saluda as well. The reason for this decision, and most decisions I make in my products as to what to include and not include, is due to file size constraints and acceptable download speeds for those who have nothing but a dialup connection and a modem. If you recall, at the time we released Saluda, Jaager's genital morphs, as well as those of many others such as Traveller, Rtamesis (I think), etc, were available for free still at Morphworld. I had not anticipated that they would "go away" or I might have considered more seriously the need to include all of the ones Jaager had done, though it would bloat the file size more. Instead, I gave the url to Morphworld 2 in the readme documents, and decided to let people apply any morphs in that area that were specific ones that they might wish on their own, and just stick to good basic anatomically correct functionality in Saluda.

Saluda and MillieJCM customers will soon get another e-mail with URL to my morphs. I have done the HTML, I just must upload and test. I will spread the messages out a bit to avoid becoming Spam. I spent a little time with a prop with higher resolution than what DAZ provided with Vicki. I would not consider using Hellborn's prop because of copyright. I started my own 'keystone'. ( the polys in Vicki, when planar mapped, look like nothing so much as the icon for the Penn RR.) The genitals material in Millie can be made transparent and the prop parented in. It would require a bit of work. Especially the interface between the prop and the body. Low propority project. The point is that there should have been more polys to work with, but it is too late now. What we have, I consider about 80% good enough. A prop is the only other option that I would consider. Changing the geometry would mean losing the morphs for the group changed. This is a choice that leads to an eddy. On another note: Stormrage said: "Don't bitch..." and not "Please don't bitch..." an warning - not a request.

A lot of arguments have been given, legal, class room presentations, possible sexual harasement complaints,personal taste, and a million possible other liabilities. If any or even just one of them are true then why does Millenium man have'um?

Probably the same reason that there is a Viagra for men but no similar medication for women. Out of site = out of mind. Western society provides clothing to hide certain features such as bras to smooth over nipples and underwear to smooth over the vulva. Apparently it is better to see the lump of a bra than the bump of a nipple. On the other hand, it is illegal to be turgid in public in Wisconsin.

I made a pretty high quality texture for John West's VWG Hip model. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do with it? I know most websites do not like to provide explicit content or donwloads, and John West hasn't responded to my e-mail asking him what he recommends I do with it. Can you showcase detailed genitilia renders in the Renderosity Marketplace?