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Subject: Mirroring a morph


odf ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 2:50 AM · edited Thu, 22 February 2024 at 2:59 AM
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Naïve question of the day: is there an easy way within Poser (12) to create the mirror image of an existing morph? For example, say I have a morph that moves the mouth to the left, can I make one that moves it to the right  without exporting an OBJ file and flipping it around using some external program?

I know that the mirror function of the morph tool can copy one side to the other, which with some trickery, small manual repairs and multiple temporary spawns should give me what I want. But is there anything a little bit more direct?


-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 12:30 PM · edited Sat, 16 July 2022 at 12:34 PM

I prefer to do it manually but I'm weird like that. I do a ton of post transform or difference stuff and then bake down to a FBM. Blender's very precise proportional editing falloff is tremendously helpful with numerically exact transformations from one side and then applied to the other Obviously motion or scaling morphs need to be applied individually to their own particular origin point. A single origin derived scale won't work properly with eyes for instance, upon splitting the result it's not scaling from it's own origin but from an average if you see my meaning. So too with boob motions etc. Actually boobs are another set of procedures lol.

Anyway, after that probably pointless and confusing blathering...

ADP has a script for flipping left to right etc. Works pretty good. Here's the thread with the script...


https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2963260/is-there-a-way-to-mirror-a-morph




primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 12:50 PM · edited Sat, 16 July 2022 at 12:51 PM

Rendo's edit time limit is incredibly irritating 

*A single origin derived scale won't work properly with eyes for instance, upon splitting, or not, the result is not scaling from each effected singular origin but from an average if you see my meaning.




odf ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 3:15 PM
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Thanks! I should have guessed that ADP had a script for it. The slightly roundabout way via the morph tool ended up not being too bad after I had worked it out properly in my head, but the script might be handy if I end up doing it a lot.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 3:59 PM

Glad you figured it out. Also appreciate the gentlemanly thanks. I can't tell you how many long illustrated posts including example file shares I've made around here... literally hundreds... without a thanks or even a comment.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 6:04 PM
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By the way, I just looked at the thread you linked and it turns out that ADP's script does not actually do what I want. It simply multiplies all the x-deltas by -1, which no doubt can be very useful in special cases, but I was looking for something more general. No worries, though, the morph tool method works fine, and I know how to do it with an external program or script if I need to.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 7:00 PM · edited Sat, 16 July 2022 at 7:02 PM

Oh. I thought you meant like a flip. Just a general mirror seemed too easy ;)

Back to Japanese schoolgirls playing twister...



Edit; obviously legal ones that is.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 7:07 PM

BTW

Beginning to grow fond of Poser Weightmapping. I like the direct feedback as opposed to JCMs. Of course I'm not doing anything elaborate.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 7:31 PM · edited Sat, 16 July 2022 at 7:38 PM
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Yes, flip might have been a better word. Despite all this time in English-speaking countries, I still struggle with the language all the time. To clarify, here's what I wanted:

7RcO5oOZSyL81fc5hneXQiiFiaow8VTS71WIp2C0.png

Input on the left, flipped version on the right, sum of both in the middle. Note that the middle does not simply mirror one side of the input, because the morph influences both sides of the face. Also the x delta amounts are quite different for the left and right side of the face (her right side basically not moving at all in the x-direction), so ADP's script wouldn't be much help, even if there was no movement in y and z. What I did instead was spawn two copies of the input morph, mirror "-x to +x" for one and "+x to -x" for the other in the morph tool and add those together to get to the image in the middle. Then I subtracted the original morph to get to the one on the right. Really not that bad once I'd figured out the technique and could streamline its execution.

An alternative would have been to export the mesh with the morph applied, flip the whole thing (not just the deltas) along the x-axis, then use my vertex numbering repair script to get the flipped morph from that. Good method if I'm making morphs in Blender anyway, but here I was actually just tweaking an existing morph within Poser, so staying within Poser seemed easier.

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


odf ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 7:34 PM
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primorge posted at 7:07 PM Sat, 16 July 2022 - #4441403

BTW

Beginning to grow fond of Poser Weightmapping. I like the direct feedback as opposed to JCMs. Of course I'm not doing anything elaborate.

Yes, the direct feedback is pretty awesome. There are some quirks that initially made it seem almost unusable to me when I first started, but now I'm so used to them I barely even notice. :-)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 9:49 PM · edited Sat, 16 July 2022 at 9:54 PM

odf posted at 7:31 PM Sat, 16 July 2022 - #4441405

Yes, flip might have been a better word. Despite all this time in English-speaking countries, I still struggle with the language all the time. To clarify, here's what I wanted:

7RcO5oOZSyL81fc5hneXQiiFiaow8VTS71WIp2C0.png

Input on the left, flipped version on the right, sum of both in the middle. Note that the middle does not simply mirror one side of the input, because the morph influences both sides of the face. Also the x delta amounts are quite different for the left and right side of the face (her right side basically not moving at all in the x-direction), so ADP's script wouldn't be much help, even if there was no movement in y and z. What I did instead was spawn two copies of the input morph, mirror "-x to +x" for one and "+x to -x" for the other in the morph tool and add those together to get to the image in the middle. Then I subtracted the original morph to get to the one on the right. Really not that bad once I'd figured out the technique and could streamline its execution.

An alternative would have been to export the mesh with the morph applied, flip the whole thing (not just the deltas) along the x-axis, then use my vertex numbering repair script to get the flipped morph from that. Good method if I'm making morphs in Blender anyway, but here I was actually just tweaking an existing morph within Poser, so staying within Poser seemed easier.

I just create the morph as a whole in mudbox or blender using x symettry on the brushes.

Import back as a FBM using pml, use Poser's split morph command to split the morph into 2 sides l and r.

This leaves me with the whole morph and a dial for both left and right sides. Works perfectly. At that point if I want to be elaborate I can delete the whole, leaving me with both the split left and right sides, create a new master and a dependency that dials both sides in simultaneously resulting in a whole identical to the original.

I use a similar process for creating symmetrical JCMs. But there's a reverse deformation (a zero rotations) and export bakes of the split to left and right sides and a reimport of left and right results as morphs to which I'll apply the necessary dependencies via the rotations.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 10:06 PM

Right click the morph parameter you want to split. Sometimes you may need to save and refresh Poser to get the command to appear. The command will split the morph into 2 dials, left and right sides, and leave the original whole intact. Note; be careful if you decide to delete a freshly created split morph dial, this will promptly crash Poser. If however you've saved and refreshed the file after the split you can delete as usual...

kmHohfT6eidMWZmOaPHWcg4GKlreI4yrqXZ6CebX.png


odf ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 10:15 PM
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Ah thanks, very cool! Still so many new things in Poser that I've overlooked.

Yes, creating a symmetric morph and then splitting it should handle most of the cases where I want separate left and right versions. Very handy!

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sat, 16 July 2022 at 10:20 PM

;)


odf ( ) posted Fri, 22 July 2022 at 11:30 PM
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By the way, I've now decided to use Poser's split morph version even for the smile. It looks a bit more odd than my original when dialed to 1 on one side and to 0 on the other, but that's not actually a shape a human face can make (or at least I don't think it can), so there's really no point in going through all the trouble of maintaining my special one-sided smile morphs through the refinement process. Just me being a bit pretentious, I guess. :-)

-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.


primorge ( ) posted Sun, 24 July 2022 at 7:27 AM

Pretentious probably isn't the right word. Noodley might be better. I personally love noodley features...

Sometimes combining minute doses of unrealism together results in something more "real" than strict adherence to what you might consider the most realistic approach. Options are nice, especially if the destination is going to be used by someone who might not have the same aesthetic approach as yourself.

Quoth Pretentious Primorge.


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