I want to ask: will the 1.3 Beta be weight-mapped?

jartz posted at 9:14 PM Thu, 29 September 2022 - #4445533

I want to ask: will the 1.3 Beta be weight-mapped?

I know that's not ideal, but it's necessary to prevent myself from getting overwhelmed with the amount of work.

Thanks for letting me know.  Don’t get overwhelmed with a lot, no pressure here.

I'm playing about with 1.2 at the moment and I'm curious what software you used to create her included morphs. Surely not Wings? Although it's possible with it's magnet functions...

All the modeling and morphing for Antonia 1.2 was just lo-res voxel pushing in Wings. The base mesh changes for 1.3 were done in Blender, but most of the morphs in Poser with the morph tool.

Well, here goes nuffing...

Since we're not allowed to post direct links, you'll have to solve a series of easy puzzles to find the beta:

1) Find the website github dot com.

2) Find the repository named "odf/Antonia.Polygon-1.3".

3) Click on "Releases" on the right side.

4) There should be only one release, which is named "Antonia 1.3 beta1". Click on "Assets" to see the available downloads.

5) Both "source code" downloads contain exactly the same files. Pick your favorite format and download away.

The download is fairly big (43MB) because with SaintFox's kind permission it includes the Toni Polygon texture by her and Digital-Lion.

I hope you enjoy.

Well, here goes nuffing...

....

I hope you enjoy

For reasons beyond my limited understanding these forums do not have a 'thumbs up' button, alas, so I have to resort to a post:

THANKS. WELL DONE!

Thank you very much. Will play with her later.

Thanks!

Problem with posting links?

https://github.com/odf/Antonia.Polygon-1.3/archive/refs/heads/main.zip

I'll check it out.  Thank you so much!

Just woke up, downloaded, and installed. I took a quick look. Everything looks pretty good with the topology, there's a bit of stretching of the UVs at the pupil that wasn't there before but it doesn't appear to be an issue. Haven't tried the bends yet as I have to head off to work. I'll post my thoughts after a better examination, I'll post them over on my character WIP thread as I work on things. As you're one of a handful (maybe) of people looking there you'll see what I'm doing.

Here's hoping future versions don't break morphs but I understand the reasoning. And I see the warning in the ReadMe about future updates changing things.

Well Done and Thanks odf.

Downloaded, installed, works fine in P11.  Many thanks.  

Downloaded. I'll install and check her out later. I will post my thoughts here.

Thanks everyone for your support and feedback!

adp001 posted at 5:36 AM Fri, 30 September 2022 -#4445549

Thanks!

Problem with posting links?

Here's hoping future versions don't break morphs but I understand the reasoning. And I see the warning in the ReadMe about future updates changing things.

Future morph breakage is unlikely. I've fixed all the things in the mesh that have been bugging me. Further improvements are certainly possible, but I think if I really caught a desire to create the "perfect" mesh at some point, it would make more sense to create a new figure from scratch.

Changes in grouping could of course also break meshes, and there are some I've considered and might experiment with. But I can't see the advantages being large enough to justify breaking things.

The third possibility I can see is a modified base shape. I don't like her current default genital area much and once I have a few morphs for that, might pick one to be the new default. But since that wouldn't change vertex orders and such, any morphs affected should be easy to fix.

What I was thinking of mostly when I wrote that in the ReadMe where changes in the rigging that could affect poses and conforming clothes to some degree. But well, no guarantees...

Now that the "hard work" is done, I get to play. What kind of new content would y'all be most interested in seeing in the near future? Morphs, clothes, poses, something else? As for clothes, would raw OBJ files be of interest, at all? I could also convert existing morphs for Antonia 1.2 to some extent, but that only makes sense to me if I have permission to redistribute them.

As per usual, no promises.

Thanks a lot, been a fan of the Antonia figure for a long time.

Here is my folder with your Antonia beta releases, dont know if I missed some  :-)

odf posted at 10:21 PM Fri, 30 September 2022 - #4445603

Now that the "hard work" is done, I get to play. What kind of new content would y'all be most interested in seeing in the near future? Morphs, clothes, poses, something else? As for clothes, would raw OBJ files be of interest, at all? I could also convert existing morphs for Antonia 1.2 to some extent, but that only makes sense to me if I have permission to redistribute them.

As per usual, no promises.

I'm liking the 1.3 Beta so far.  Especially how you did the breast morphs, for that cleavage/push-up bra effect.

I hope to do a render of her with the morph I did with version 1.2.  I did the Copy Morphs From, and it did the trick with one problem, the feet and toes were not aligned.  I corrected it with the morph brush in Poser and touched it up in Blender.

It's still a good start.

Thanks a lot, been a fan of the Antonia figure for a long time.

Here is my folder with your Antonia beta releases, dont know if I missed some  :-)

Wow, you've kept them all. That's impressive. The list looks pretty comprehensive to me, but I haven't really kept track, especially not on the pre-github versions.

I'd love to see some morphs for her, to give her some character and uniqueness.  I love to see some shoes/footwear and some poses.

I'm quite keen to try my hand at some face/character morphs. We'll have to see how it goes. I've tried to make shoes in MD, with not a lot of success so far. Maybe I need to switch to Blender or do a mix. I'd like to make some sandals in the style that Nami from One Piece wears.

I'm liking the 1.3 Beta so far.  Especially how you did the breast morphs, for that cleavage/push-up bra effect.

Glad you like those. A rather minimalistic set so far, but one can always add more.

I hope to do a render of her with the morph I did with version 1.2.  I did the Copy Morphs From, and it did the trick with one problem, the feet and toes were not aligned.  I corrected it with the morph brush in Poser and touched it up in Blender.

Neat! I'm not surprised that the feet and toes were a problem, what with the toecaps gone and all the touching of different parts of the mesh. I'd be expecting issues similar to the ones I had with the lips, or worse.

Cannot get eyes materials or textures to work! Cheers

arrow1 posted at 12:32 AM Sat, 1 October 2022 - #4445611

Cannot get eyes materials or textures to work! Cheers

ETA: It seems the cause of this is that Poser's preview doesn't like having an active Cycles Surface node in the material. I'm using Cycles to get the diffraction in the cornea, so if someone can come up with an equivalent setup based on only Physical Surface and non-cycles nodes, that would presumably solve it.

Okay, had a closer look. The corneas become transparent and the irises visible in preview when I set the renderer to FireFly in the render settings. Looks like the preview tries to mimic the active renderer, but then throws up its arms when that's SuperFly and Cycles nodes are involved.

Can anyone confirm?

odf posted at 10:21 PM Fri, 30 September 2022 - #4445603

Now that the "hard work" is done, I get to play. What kind of new content would y'all be most interested in seeing in the near future? Morphs, clothes, poses, something else? As for clothes, would raw OBJ files be of interest, at all? I could also convert existing morphs for Antonia 1.2 to some extent, but that only makes sense to me if I have permission to redistribute them.

As per usual, no promises.

Raw obj clothing files would be terrific. I like rigging clothes but not much time to model things, other than PANTIES (shouting this), with other stuff going on. If you share some of your MD things that would be awesome :)

Okay, had a closer look. The corneas become transparent and the irises visible in preview when I set the renderer to FireFly in the render settings. Looks like the preview tries to mimic the active renderer, but then throws up its arms when that's SuperFly and Cycles nodes are involved.

Can anyone confirm?

I like to make my own morphs so not much interest on that front, no offense, just how I use Poser. More on that later, I'll start work on that as soon as I get some time off.

None taken! Can't wait to see what you come up with.

Raw obj clothing files would be terrific. I like rigging clothes but not much time to model things, other than PANTIES (shouting this), with other stuff going on. If you share some of your MD things that would be awesome :)

Cool! I'll clean up and package what I have.

Some possible promo images: 

Or maybe something more fake-outdoorsy...? (A while ago someone tried to convince me to optimize Toni for the bikini babe market.)

Also available: aspiring bodybuilder Toni (although the muscle fans will yell at me because she's not nearly jacked enough).

You can use this simple addition to break up the highlights and brighten up the skin texture:

Use "Value 1" from "Math_Function_2" to control the intensity of the Voronoi effect. Or change Multiply to Add or whatever you want to try :)

"Voronoi" is available in P11 and P12.

I took a closer look at Ant today.

I like the minimalist morphs and parm group set ups

She bends very good, better than most even without the JCMs you'd expect in typical areas. The bends aren't SO good that I can't personalize things with my own JCMs. A+

I have one minor critique as a negative. It's not anything that will effect my personal use but it's a Poser standard non typical choice on your part...

You let Poser write out an obj to be referenced figureResFile by the cr2. You didn't repoint to a unimesh obj in Geometries. The obj included in the distribution is unwelded at body part groups. It's useless for people wanting to create FBM without a welding exporter. Perhaps there's a reason but assuming folks less informed are using it? 

Lol. I'm not sure how that violence advisory got attached :D

Let's just assume I didn't say those things violently

I took a look at her last night and I don't totally agree with the values chosen for SSS, the skin tone is too pink, at least for my taste.  I recommend these values instead;

Red = 0.482

Green = 0.169

Blue = 0.109

This is what you will get as SSS response:  

As opposed to this:                                       

I get a better, natural look under a neutral light HDR.

Here's Antonia 1.2 obj straight from Geometries in Mudbox with an aggressive smooth applied. Also notable that the 1.2 obj throws no mesh error warnings upon import... which is actually a rare thing for a Poser figure mesh. Most Poser figures throw at least a high valence vertex warning, not so with 1.2

Here's the 1.3 obj import. It now throws an incomplete UV set warning. Not sure why this is, it won't effect my usage but I figured I'd point it out.

Here's an aggressive smooth applied...

Being that I use PML this won't effect me at all but as I said it's non standard to have an unwelded mesh in a distribution.

Sorry hborre, crosspost.

I have no problem to import and use the provided OBJ in Blender and with Cinema 4D. UV is also fine.

Mudbox is over aggressive with warnings. Most of the time it's ignorable. The mesh however is unwelded no matter where you import it unless you use an exporter such as yours or PML. I just figured I'd point it out as it's unusual nowadays and would/does have an easy solution... depending of course how odf edited his original obj for 1.3

As far as the UVs being fine. That's a matter of workflow opinion. Stacked UVs are a thing of the past. One couldn't expect odf to remap his figure though, the changes he made to the mesh are a welcome change for my usage.

Blender...

Interestingly no splits with Blender, just hard seams

Zbrush

primorge posted at 11:32 AM Sat, 1 October 2022 - #4445646

As far as the UVs being fine. That's a matter of workflow opinion. Stacked UVs are a thing of the past. One couldn't expect odf to remap his figure though, the changes he made to the mesh are a welcome change for my usage.

odf was more than clear from the start what to expect from the update. So your research doesn't really help, in my opinion.

Sorry, but my imports are fine. Maybe you do something wrong?

You are using Blender 2.92.0. You should update to something more recent (3.3 is the last long term version). Blenders OBJ importer had some problems. Maybe your problems are related to that.

Attention: Blender 3.x has **two** wavefront obj importers! The old one and the new.

I don't know what you expect. A splitted mesh **should** give exactly this result. This is nothing new. And I bet you can explain why.

No need to harp on it. Because as already mentioned (and you know it well): odf has said from the beginning what to expect from the update.

Import the 1.3 obj included directly into Poser. Unwelded. Import V4 obj or La Femme obj directly into Poser. Welded.

The same result with this above will be same in the other softwares.

If you're are saying the obj is not unwelded, my point, then there's something seriously wrong with ALL of my importers in all of my softwares. Not just Blender, which behaves normally with the welded 1.2 object. But with Mudbox, Zbrush, Poser, and Blender.

And I know what I'm doing with stacked UVs and UDIM. Stacked sucks because you cant paint across seams as easily. If there's no advantage why are all softwares adopting it? Higher resolution textures with less overhead and cross UV shell painting would probably be the reasons.

Sigh. Just ignore my observations. Obviously the included mesh is welded ;)

On second thought, since you've told me I don't know what I'm doing and expected no response, and when I responded you said I was harping on it, and then backpeddled by indirectly admitting that what I said was true but I should have expected it... Here's a harp.

It takes 5 minutes to point the cr2 to a unimesh obj. There ya go. That's why I said there must be a reason he didn't. "Well its a dev release you silly fool" is hardly a reason.

The unwelded .obj was an accident. I didn’t realise Poser did that upon export and then accidentally deleted my original .obj. I wasn’t sure I could easily replace the current .obj with a welded version, so I kept it for now. I don’t know why anyone would claim that it’s welded.

The warning about incomplete UVs worries me a bit, but I‘m assuming that‘s just the unwelded Poser export being weird again. I‘ll try a welded export and see what that looks like.

Changing the stacked UVs to UDIM hadn’t crossed my mind. I would have done that years ago, but maybe there was some doubt then as whether UDIM was supported by all the commonly used tools.

In general, never hesitate to tell me something  that you find odd about the figure. That’s what betas are for.

@adp001 and hborre: Thanks for the skin material suggestions! I‘ll give those a try.

The warning about incomplete UVs worries me a bit, but I‘m assuming that‘s just the unwelded Poser export being weird again. I‘ll try a welded export and see what that looks like.

Changing the stacked UVs to UDIM hadn’t crossed my mind. I would have done that years ago, but maybe there was some doubt then as whether UDIM was supported by all the commonly used tools.

In general, never hesitate to tell me something  that you find odd about the figure. That’s what betas are for.

I wouldn't sweat that notification, I've seen it a bunch of times under different painting circumstances. It is odd on a complete mesh though. I think it's just reading information from things you removed... I'm not technically knowledgeable enough about UVs, other than in use and creating them, to explain what exactly the problem is. It's probably nothing but I'll let you know if it actually is something when I'm painting or baking maps. I think I won't encounter it because of the workflow I've adopted for stacked which ALWAYS gives an incomplete UV notification. Chopping things Up.

As far as UDIM goes, maybe down the road. At this point it would be highly invasive I think. Just keep in mind for Antonia 2... It's slowly becoming the standard for Poser figures, LF and Dawn 2 are UDIM for instance. I selfishly like it because UDIM is Mudbox native and I don't have to do a bunch of chopping and welding to paint across seams. And that only works if the parts are not directly overlapping or only slightly overlapping.

@adp001 and hborre: Thanks for the skin material suggestions! I‘ll give those a try.

odf posted at 10:21 PM Fri, 30 September 2022 - #4445603

Now that the "hard work" is done, I get to play. What kind of new content would y'all be most interested in seeing in the near future? Morphs, clothes, poses, something else? As for clothes, would raw OBJ files be of interest, at all? I could also convert existing morphs for Antonia 1.2 to some extent, but that only makes sense to me if I have permission to redistribute them.

As per usual, no promises.

Okay. As a pure end user, here is what I think.

1/ First of all, kudos on the anatomy! I was rendering when my husband who does physiotherapy came by and said to pass on his compliments on how well you captured a lighter, non-athletic female form. He especially was happy about the separation of pectorals and breast tissue. she also moves extremely well with the earlier poses for your prior versions. The arm and thigh bends are superb. And yeah, as a female, I am thrilled to see figures with realistic breasts (not meaning necessarily small, as you provide breast size morphs; but realistically formed, obeying gravity and again, that separation from pec muscles, yay!)

2/ Which brings me to: it would be lovely to have some morphs contributed by those who can/ willing to make them. Face and body fat and muscles would be lovely.

3/ Egads, she needs clothes please. Those of us who'd like to render her not necessarily for Certain Purposes, probably would love to have some stuff for her. I shall try her in the Fitting Room momentarily and with some dynamics, but it'd be nice to have her a wardrobe.

Thank you, again, for your meticulousness, attention to detail and perseverance!

About UDIM: You can add an offset to the existing UV-coordinates to move certain areas to a UDIM-Page you like.

AS you know, UV-coordinates are values between 0.0 and 0.999~ in U and V direction.

UDIM is defined as a table of rows (0 to 9) and columns (0 to 9). To be able to address an UDIM-Row/Column the row address is added to V (0 to 9) and the column address is added to U (0..9). In the rare case you need more then a 10 x 10 matrix, you may define UDIM "pages" (page, rest = divmod(coord, 10x10); row, col = divmod(rest, 10); col, coord =divmod(col, 1.0))

If an UV coordinates is set to 2.123/0.678, then this means: UDIM row 2 (V) and UDIM column 0 (U). Each and every software uses the coordinates U = 2.123 modulo 1.0, V = 0.678 modulo 1.0 to address this UV coordinate (yes, the stacked version :) )

UV = 3.456/4.215734 == UDIM row 3, column 4, coordinates 0.456/0.215734

FYI: Poser 12 allows to manipulate UV coordinates from a loaded mesh. This was broken in P11 and not available in earlier versions. Now it works and allows some fun – what about UV-morphs?

Some time ago I made a Python script on request to demonstrate UDIMs: https://adp.spdns.org/#UDIM

I can only agree with Riha474. I've said it once or twice elsewhere: Antonia is fun to work with, to move the character (without breaking what you've painstakingly built up before), to morph or make morphs. Antonia's Geometry supports these efforts and doesn't sabotage them like many other figures.