This is a really nice article, thanks for posting this. I don't often comment on people's work, simply because I have nothing interesting to say and I do believe that it's better to say nothing at all than to copy and paste the same 'great work xx ^^' all over the place. :)
So here's to honesty, cheers! :)
tis a sorry state of affairs when we have to give a tutorial on how to critique :(
Yeah, but it is nice to know if you can improve through other people's comments or suggestions. What's the point of having comments for your upload if no-one will bother to even suggest a better way of compiling an image????
Now all you need to do is write one on how to accept critiques!
All very sound and helpful advice. Thanks for putting this together.
A useful article and would be a good idea to place something like this in the welcome email to new members/users of RO.
No bad thing to give guidlines and I like the fact that you have identified that there is a possibility that new memebers may avoid giving critique. I have certainly learnt far more from others positive critisim than from the numerous wows etc.. note that that hurts either ;)
If I never had received a few real good tips, I never would have reached the level of knowledge that I have today. But this real good hints are really not often. For myself I know, that I have done a real critique once and the Lady was hysteric and sent me messages how bad Iīm to write my oppinion and not how fantastic her image is. I only said something about a very pink lipstick color, which has shot the whole image....
The other thing is, that english isnīt the mother tounge of many members here. Like me, we have to use the words we have learned and this often ends with "fantastic, wonderful and beautyful" as we donīt know more shades of this meanings.
Third probleme, that so many users have begun to write "copy and paste" comments to 300 artists to receive 100 back to get in the art-charts. I really have noticed that this kind of commenting has changed since the new website with new charts is online.
Perhaps the Critique Club is a real good idea!
This is quite sad as Khai stated above. Most comments on galleries now are just friendly ones, and tons of it. Critique should be left to improve the artist, not cause its a friend and you have to comment. Your comments should be to improve the artist and its flaws. But one thing we also forget, to mention the good things about a render. You can mention the good parts of the picture, and state what is wrong with the bad areas. I have left comments before that would/should have improved the image, but the artist did take it the wrong way, yet I have not used any hurtful words. Sometimes the artist just wants the comments to make it to the top, VS getting good feedback so that he/she/they can improve. I guess this does fall into the GREY AREA, lol. Nice article, and I hope many will read/understand it properly. Thank You...
Good guidelines for giving a critique.
Just kiding, it' usefull :)
Hmm. Art critique is rather easy but how about critique of written stuff?
Most people never learned how to write and all the rules that exist. Often there's not much more to say than if one likes what he/she just'd read or if he don't like it.
Besides this, the rules and style are different in Europe, USA, Asia.
That makes it really difficult to give any advices.
Of course the reader can say the text caused the emotions ... and gave him the impression ... but that does not necessarily help the author to improve.
We all have more or less the same way of processing information in pictures but a very different use and understanding of words.
Have to add that so far I made no bad experiences if I'm short on words and just point out the most important aspects of an image. (Like "good setup, pose. shadows are to soft/hard/wrong at )
Thanks. We really needed this.
By: Greywolf Starkiller
Alas, some 'artists' won't accept critique, no matter how valid or how carefully it is worded. I have seen too many 'lynch' mobs formed by disgrunted 'artists'. I'll keep my critiques to the Critique Group where I know they will be appreciated. Nice article, Karen. Hopefully, most of the popularity seekers will read your next one. The Gallery can only improve if all critique is constructive, AND if everyone can accept it in the spirit it is given. Might as well wish for a cool million while I'm at it, eh?
This is a great initiative Karen, I've heard some artists complain that they don't receive enough constructive criticism at Rendo; in fact one artist recently gave that as one of his reasons for leaving.
I'd much rather be direct then do the whole "praise sandwich" method. On the same token, I'd much perfer others to be direct insted of dancing around the true point. Tell me the lighting needs work - don't tell me how good the composition is - nine times out of ten - I already know what needs help.
Awesome idea , well done and long overdue !
Peace and Creativity
Im loved and hated for my crittics .. but 98%of the time i get a thnx for spotting that or this..
So somehow im doing it right..
And about non English ... you absolutly right about this: Write clearly and avoid slang
You always avoid SLANG ..SLANG is dutch for SNAKE :} so avoiding them is smart hahaha..
Nice work on the tut karen !!
It was my friend's brother's cousin's neighbor's uncle's sister's friend who got banned for posting a negative comment. Really it was! :)
Seriously, though, this tutorial is an excellent step, but there are two big unresolved issues:
1) Where exactly does this "urban legend" come from? Why does the community believe that they will be banned if they leave a negative-sounding comment on an image? I agree that a comment such as "this sux" doesn't help the artist at all, but will someone really be banned (or get negative feedback on his own image) for leaving a comment such as "The people look like they're floating"?
Why do so many artists think constructive criticism like this is "trolling"?
2) Overly-sensitive artists. How many times have we seen people threaten to close their account and never make an image again just because a viewer said that the shadows looked wrong in the image?
Hi Karen Janes.
I liked the matter, but if it allows me, I will make a small observation:
I always say that art is all that that is not done for critics (without any offense).
Opinions on any art type is very difficult, we have to take in consideration the culture differences, learning and even of the used tool.
Beautiful images that are not commented exist and another that in my opinion nor they should be posted, but as art for me cannot be translated, until a black point in the white paper can be wonderful, and those that only comment works still exist done in the such and such tool, the another are not good, they are amateur, child's toys. I suffered this prejudice recently in another community.
Besides, for some, the discomfort of the translation exists.
I always accompany the comments of my works, the opinions are extremely important, they help to perfect the technique.
The good critics take advantage of and for the bad ones I don't give importance, and in my comments I am always true.
It's helpful if the commentar is familiar with the software. I would not be comfortable commenting on 3DMAX technique, for example, since I do not know it. If I like the image, I would certainly compliment it, though.
I agree whith Sivana. The few times i tried to give constuctive critics was awfull. The artists send me hatemails and i prommised my self never do this again.
Now i send IMs when i have a usefull tip.
I think whith this all artist can deal.
There's too many artists on this website that gang up on other artists for giving crit. For example, I gave a crit on an image which was a good suggestion as the artist thanked me for it. But i ended up getting nasty IM's from this artists "followers". Sorry but what right do they have to threaten me when the art was not created by them?
Sometimes i find its not the artists who cannot take the critacism, its the followers who think the artist they follow is god. It makes me sick, and thats why I hardly comment on peoples work anymore, through the fear of being attacked. Its pathetic!
Though it's sad that a tut like this is needed it is a good thing you wrote it.
I agree with your guidelines - with one addition. Being polite is not candy-coating in my eyes. An all too straightforward critic is not considered civil and polite in vast parts of Europe where English is not the common language.
Most of the negative critics I got up to now was not very helpful since they didn't offer ways out of the flaw and left me with the impression that one of the great art gurus of this world was telling me off. (Example: 'The shadow cast on the girl's nose and the plastic quality of the rendering take away from the potential of this composition.')
On the other hand I'd love to get HELP to overcome the flaws of my poser-play that are only too obvious to me.
Kind of a dilemma and I'm not at all sure if there is a way out. Wished there were...
Articulation seems to be a problem with some of my peers posting responces here...
...AND I still won't allow commentary on my stuff. Here's why: I don't want anyone's opinions running underneath my work---good or bad. My attitude towards movie critiques is very similiar. It's usually someone expanding their own egos---even if it is with all of the decorum of the most well bred and educated, and the intentions of a saint! I'm out the expense of the program and content, the time I had to budget to create and execute the work, the learning curve at that particular juncture, and so on--- and all you have to do is comment? I DON'T GIVE A SH*T unless inspired otherwise!
You like it---you look. You like me, you contact me and make it personal. You may have some point great to offer, and I should be a FOOL not to accept it---still, I am not volunteering for being splayed on a spit called "post an opinion" or "our artist's are always interested in your feedback" or even "you opinion is always valuable to us" or any other example of the other 'have a nice day' gobbledy-gook trotted out there. People say those things to control other people in business, politics, religion and otherwise.
Your article is great and tender, insightful, deliberate, and well stated, as I perceive it. That shouldn't mean anything to you, stranger. See, how it works?
Art critique, no matter how well done, is not a science. Providing a critique is providing an opinion. At its best, it's a well-informed opinion that is worth making. At its worst, it's a flatulent noise that isn't worth experiencing. Most of the time, it's somewhere in between.
Providing technical advice is worthwhile when one can clearly explain how to readily correct the problem. A portrait, with an unintentional fish-eye lens setting, can be improved by telling the artist how to change that setting.
Aesthetics are a trickier thing to criticize because the artist and the critic may not be on the same wavelengths and may have completely contradictory views that may be both right or both wrong. That can happen because there are no absolutes on the message of an image. The message is whatever the viewer walks away with.
To give a real example of the fickles of criticism, below are two reviews of the movie, "300". One reviewer loves it. The other hates it. These reviews are coming from people who earn their living doing it. If two critics, who are paid well for their informed opinions, cannot agree on the merits of a movie, then what chance do we amateur critics have of being absolutely right?
At least the site is experimenting with a critical sticky thread to focus critiques on artists that want it. It will be interesting to see if it works out.
I think time is the best critic. The passage of time, and practice while improving one's craft, make it easier to see what is wrong with one's older work. Sometimes, we can recognize our faults. Other times, we simply cannot see them even when they are pointed out to us because we're not yet ready to see them.
Excellent checklist for providing useful critique. Crit can be tough, but I'd suggest taking it always in the Bruce Lee spirit : Take what's useful and develop from there. Crit is a gift you can take or leave, but it's a gift when anyone's willing to actually spend some time thinking and tapping the keyboard. The boorish critic must be frightened by the competition you are giving him/her, remember ;o)
I agree with cornelp & gagnonrich and I rather would like to have crits to improve my skills as an artist. I'm tired of the same comments over and over again. I only learn if I get crits and not ooooooh aaaaaaaah thats beautiful or whatsoever. Most artists don't like crits and if you write your own opinions you get hatet for this by many other artists. So I mostly stopped writing comments because I figured that most artists just wanna hear great and good things about there images but useful critique isn't allowed.
Really well done, Karen. This article should be required for members to read prior to posting their very first comment. Bravo!
Personally I thrive on constructive feedback, how else to learn? There are wonderful and talented artists here, I want to take advantage of their knowledge. It is difficult sometimes to point out something that doesn't quite work when it is a posting from a member of a group you belong to. All other members are saying how wonderful and you are the only one saying, well... Agree with Denger, should be required reading. also agree with thip. take or leave what you need. One of my previous bosses used to say. "Don't just come to me with a problem, come with a suggestion" Thanks a bunch for posting something we should all be reminded of., Susan
Wow...What a sorry bunch you are when you go into hiding because of a positive critique you have made. What I can't stand are these people who spend most of their time commenting, regardless of the quality the image has you are sure to hear....THIS IS JUST GORGEOUS! Makes me want to vomit on them. I'd name names but then I might have to go into hiding. ;)
Thanks for the very useful article. I'm going to post a link to this page in another forum I frequent.
This was required?
I could've summarized it far simpler:
1) If you want to praise/critique a thing, point out what it was that got you to writing a response, without fear of offense. I've seen and heard both viewers and professional panels say things about a given art bit that would make a marine cry... trust me, you can't do much worse.
2) If you post something online, don't be such a thin-skinned milquetoast about anything that doesn't praise you to the Heavens. This is the Internet, not a nusery.
98% of the stuff in the galleries here sucks (esp. stuff posted in mine). Odds are excellent that with few exceptions, yours does too. You can either cry about it, or you can use it as an opportunity to improve.
I think it's nice when some guys give short comments about how they're 'astounded', and that your work is, 'brilliant' etc, but I do think that we could put a bit more effort into our crits. Sometimes I simply have trouble thinking what to say - mainly because my brain ceases to function - so 'OMG!' or 'Fabulous' has to suffice.
I would like people to make suggestions more - esp when talking about MY work/art/ptoject. I find coming up with my own ideas difficult at the best of times.
Anyway, thanks for the article! I enjoyed it. 5
I think this should be required reading before anyone is allowed to post comments on an image. Thanks Karen!
This article was a great idea. Too often marginal work is praised so highly that the artist is bound to repeat their mistakes because the comments indicate perfection.
It is true that some people do not take criticism well though. Case in point, I purchased a product from a popular vendor in the marketplace that had nothing but glowing reviews. I found it to have some issues that made it tedious to use and gave it a satisfactory, but not glowing, review. The creator emailed me DEMANDING that I retract my review because it might hurt his sales. He also contacted the Renderosity team who emailed me about his complaint. After he sent me half a dozen harassing emails, I agreed to retract it just so he'd leave me alone...
The way I figure it, if you can't take the knocks, don't check the box. Totally agree with the idea of complete honesty, as long as it's respectful. Many artists post an image to convey a message rather than showcase their artistry (as in World events/Social commentary) So, before posting, I try to ask myself: "What is the artist trying to achieve or communicate? Has the artist succeeded? Why or why not?
A very good article - possibly required reading for all new artists at Renderosity! I can think of a couple of artists who, after a single (and at least in once case, quite helpful) review, went into a bit of a tailspin! So, this article works to alleviate the fears of the artist in receiving anything less than a glowing report from their peers! I hope this encourages others to leave more constructive criticism. I like to give this style of criticism, though I'm still aware that, at the end of the day, the work is exactly how the artist has chosen it should appear - this should be borne in mind when making comments too. Nice work!
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Personally I love critiques and think that this is an awsome posting. I would love to get critiqued more, as I am used to recieving critiques. Being an art student means that you get your ego crushed every other day usually by your professors and fellow students around you. This is a good thing though, as while some are just trashing you to trash you, Most of them genuinely want to see you improve your work. Thats the beauty of working out of a communal studio, every one wants to improve thier work and at the same time they want you to improve. What we have available here is vastly more expansive and in with that comes different view points, ideas of beauty, cultures, religions, experiances... as it is all of these things that makes an art community such as Renderosity important. Plus the simple fact is, the art galleries here are public, its not like we're all part of the Illuminati here or some other secret society, why be shy?