I have finally got the wheels almost where I want them. I have discovered that bumpmapping and texturing a tire is quite a challenge, but oh so worth it. Thanks litst for all your help, without you I'd still be sitting here scratching my head. Now if I can just finish the car these are going on, I'll be really happy. Questions and comments would be appreciated. These are 99.9% done, one more night and I'll be there. kaom