Attached Link: http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/environment-sphere

Here is some free stuff to create 360 degree environments in Poser. It includes a special effects shader that is very handy for transforming sky photos for more dramatic results.

Follow the link to my free stuff area for this freebie. There are several sub-pages with lots of info and instructions.

Go directly to here > http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/environment-sphere/environment-sphere-demo-renders < to see some demo renders.

If you have questions or need help or you find bugs, please report them here. I'll respond as soon as possible.

Ask quick, though, because tomorrow afternoon I go out of town for 2 days on business and I won't be Poserizing.

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"This is because most probes are backwards. Don't argue with me."

:) LOL! I think I'll use that as my quote here at Rendo!

Thanks for the prop!

"Few are agreeable in conversation, because each thinks more of what he intends to say than that of what others are saying, and listens no more when he himself has a chance to speak." - Francois de la Rochefoucauld

Intel Core i7 920, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 1050 4GB video, 6TB HDD space
Poser 12: Inches (Poser(PC) user since 1 and the floppies/manual to prove it!)

I saw the site. Thanks man!

What's this Matmatic?

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

Quote - I saw the site. Thanks man!

What's this Matmatic?

Just the single best shader program known to mankind! :)

Download it here:

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/matmatic

Find out how to use Matmatic at the bottom of the first post in this thread:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2722867

"It is good to see ourselves as others see us. Try as we may, we are never
able to know ourselves fully as we are, especially the evil side of us.
This we can do only if we are not angry with our critics but will take in good
heart whatever they might have to say." - Ghandi

7/29/08

BB:

Thanks!

LMK

Probably edited for spelling, grammer, punctuation, or typos.

Thanks once again for your efforts and generosity BB! :biggrin:

UA

BB--you aren't working for Smith-Micro because.......

DUDE! You're a creative machine! Now, I'm going "dude". :lol: LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

Awesome BB, simply awesome! Can't thank you enough!

i7 6800 (6 core/12 thread), 24 GB RAM, 1 gtx 1080 ti (8GB Vram) + 1 Titan X (12GB Vram), PP11, Octane/Poser plugin, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Oh, and a wiener dog!

excellent again BB, although i have still have no idea how to create ibl image maps using the P7 shaders from the Equirectangular pics, or standard photos(i think the math is beyond me,lol)
Thanks for the sphere

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

Next week I'll publish some tools you can use to make an IBL for your scenes, using only Poser. It's a prop with a special shader, and a camera setting.

You set up an environment sphere, rotate it how you want it, and apply effects if desired. You load the special prop and camera settings, render, and save the resulting IBL probe. Then you load it into a light.

Optionally, you load up big props like buildings and ground cover, trees, cars, whatever you want to include in the environmental lighting. You light them using the first probe. Then you render a second probe that includes these other surrounding props. In the end you have a custom IBL probe that includes the sky and stuff from the photo, as well as the big props you've put in the scene.

It usually takes less than 5 minutes and you'll get perfect matching, regardless of how you spin the environment sphere, or what special effect you put on the sky.

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Hypothetically--if I render an image in Vue up to 1600x1200 px as a bmp file, could that be used instead of a photo? Vue affects some poser materials in less than a friendly way, and that might be quicker to bypass the whole thing with dome and the new tool of which you speak.

I think.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

Quote - Hypothetically--if I render an image in Vue up to 1600x1200 px as a bmp file, could that be used instead of a photo? Vue affects some poser materials in less than a friendly way, and that might be quicker to bypass the whole thing with dome and the new tool of which you speak.

I think.

I agree with the way Vue uses poser materials (C4D is FAR better at it) but I have already rendered using 'normal' images in the envshpere. It works fine but is not without problems, ie boundary wrapping. However you can minimize that by roataing the sphere on it's y axis. The other issue would be matching IBL lights for the scene.

i7 6800 (6 core/12 thread), 24 GB RAM, 1 gtx 1080 ti (8GB Vram) + 1 Titan X (12GB Vram), PP11, Octane/Poser plugin, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Oh, and a wiener dog!

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2697974&page=3#message_2985027

Angelouscuitry (see link) says that Vue can directly render a scene (or at least a sky) as an equirectangular image. Such an image would then directly be usable on the EnvSphere or EnvDome - not sure which.

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Thanks again for your generosity and sharing your knowledge with us

The important thing is not to stop questioning.
- Albert Einstein

Indoda

In that thread I linked above, on page 2, I actually said how to make your own IBL.

But that was before I understood the problem of gamma correction, and also before I fully understand that "mirror ball" format is not the same as "angular map" format. You need angular map format for accurate IBL in Poser, and you need to take gamma correction into account for accurate color reproduction. That's why I have a custom prop shape and a custom shader - not a straight up reflection shader.

If you want to try the technique discussed in that thread, even though it is wrong on two counts, it is written here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2697974&page=2#message_2983155

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Awesome stuff, oh the God of shaders! :thumbupboth:

We're not worthy!

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Here's an example, using my new IBL techniques. I used one of Seb Przd's photos from flickr.com - a kitchen. (This is the same image that has the clock and plenty of words in it - very useful for demonstrating that a real PHOTO *can* be loaded and rendered directly, with no previous manipulation, if the environment sphere is built correctly.)

The lighting is very subdued and yellow. There is a ceiling mounted light fixture with 4 bulbs, and the walls are yellow. The cabinets and appliances are white, but the lighting makes them look cream colored. I generated and loaded an IBL image, and I also set up a dim, yellow spot light from above. (Necessary for speculars, and also because the original photo is LDR, not HDR, so the hot spot information from the light bulbs are missing in the photo.)

I placed Simon into the scene, applied VSS shaders to him, and rendered.

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gasp there's a nekkid man in the kitchen! I think I like it ;)

Hi, my namez: "NO, Bad Kitteh, NO!" Whaz yurs?
BadKittehCo Store BadKittehCo Freebies and product support

Another demo. I placed a a white floating box and sphere, with proper gamma correcting shaders on them. Look how well the colors match the cabinets.

(The man is drunk and demanding food preparation. His wife and sister are disgusted. Again.)

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I too would like to say a BIG thankyou 2 bagginsbill for his generosity,i cant imagine a world without his expert knowledge, again thankyou... looking forward to the custom IBL creator

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

The lady in the white turtle neck seems to be looking at the box and thinking "Not leftovers again!" Thanks once again for another awesome freebie.

I have Poser 7 where do I download for that? Says to contact you? Starting with nothing so would need to get pointed to the right ones. The only thing I found was for Poser 6 which I don't use. Not sure how much work it's going to take to set this all up as I don't understand any of it at this point.
Thanks

Marque,

Sorry about the delay in answering. I have uploaded the Poser 7 version of matmatic beta 1 scripts to my matmatic page.

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/matmatic

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An excellent freebie, BB.

This is what I knocked together last night. Just the Environment, a panoramic image plus matching IBL probe, the car, Miki2.

Windows 10 x64 Pro - Intel Xeon E5450 @ 3.00GHz (x2)

PoserPro 11 - Units: Metres

Adobe CC 2017

Hell, yeah! Nice job. The car looks great.

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In case it result useful for this prop, there is a program called HDRI Shop it's free:

gl.ict.usc.edu/HDRShop/

With this you can converst a lat/long picture to a probe then you can use the matching IBL as in the env sphere. the only thing I noticed is that the sphere must me rotated 180º in the Y axis to match properly.

Good job ima70 - I meant to tell people about that program but I forgot. And you're correct, you must rotate the sphere 180.

OR

Rotate the image in HDRSHOP by half its width.

However, while this does work, there is a problem if you're going to use my special effects. In such cases, the original image does not have the correct colors and brightness. Nor will it take into account any large nearby props (such as a wall) or your ground color (if you're using a 3D ground.)

That is why I'm working on my IBL Generator tools. With a couple clicks you'll be able to render a 100% perfect IBL probe to go with any scene you've set up, including your props, your special effects, and whatever rotation you happen to have used on the EnvSphere.

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That soud wonderful

Thank you for your work!

Attached Link: http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/free-stuff/genibl---ibl-generator

IBL generator is done. Go get it.

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i am searching for months free 360 pics but not luck . and then he comes and he just found them.

can you please tell me what did you writte in google?

the best part is that now you can see the image in hte preview. which is great for setting my scene.

thank you for htis

so how now to get this outtside of poser without the enviorment visible?

you render two times. once with the envsphere. the second time without it and only some simple shaders. then you make a matte.
you make a second sphere that is smaller and you make it green. then you have basicly greenscreen.

thankyou BB,excellent work,looking forward to using this later

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

I typed many useless things. Then I found the word "equirectangular". Very unique and very specific.

From Google Image search, that word led me to flickr.com. In flickr alone there are thousands and thousands of equirectangular images. Many are in excellent super high resolution, 10000 by 5000!

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Quote - I typed many useless things. Then I found the word "equirectangular". Very unique and very specific.

From Google Image search, that word led me to flickr.com. In flickr alone there are thousands and thousands of equirectangular images. Many are in excellent super high resolution, 10000 by 5000!

thank you for your help. do you have to register?

no

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Thank You Bagginsbill for all that you do for us!!

Would it be better to get the biggest image size available?

If you're going to directly see the sphere, then yes biggest is best, especially if you're not using a wide-angle camera.

For reflections only, high resolution doesn't matter much.

For environmental lighting, high resolution doesn't matter at all.

The only reason not to use the biggest is to save memory and perhaps compute time. I've seen Poser go nuts taking all day rendering reflections of a 10K by 5K e-sphere image, while in the same scene just zipping through reflections of a 6K by 3K e-sphere image.

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A question: I have rendered using your Environment Sphere Dome, and I think what you did was excellent. How is that when I render I get fuzzy background? Is it because of the low resolution image? Should I move my camera or better yet, size the sphere down a bit?

Other than that, I like it?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Asus N50-600 - Intel Core i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz · Windows 10 Home/11 upgrade 64-bit · 16GB DDR4 RAM · 1TB SSD and 1TB HDD; Graphics: NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1060 - 6GB GDDR5 VRAM; Software: Poser Pro 11x

Quote - A question: I have rendered using your Environment Sphere Dome, and I think what you did was excellent. How is that when I render I get fuzzy background? Is it because of the low resolution image? Should I move my camera or better yet, size the sphere down a bit?

Other than that, I like it?

One of the most curious things about the environment sphere is this: changing its size has little to no effect on how big looks, or on how fuzzy it looks.

The fuzziness is due to you looking at a tiny part of the photo. You need a really big photo to get away with looking at only a tiny part.

Everyone should experiment, please, and learn how things work. Change the sphere scale to 50% - render it? See no change. Try 10%. See no change. If you get small enough, though you'll start to see perspective distortion - i.e. where your camera is will change how it looks.

Try changing your camera focal length. Go smaller. Go bigger. Move the camera to bring your subject into view at different focal lengths. Observe the changes in the background.

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Great picture, ice-boy. Try animating it - it's even more stunning.

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i will do a quick animation. reflective humans(terminator 2 anyone? ) look incredible to me.

ohhh i dont know why but your ENVsphere is better then anything other that i found on the internet. it looks like it renders faster.
why is that?

for the sun i used the glow effect in after effects. i did this for a more realistic feel. i rendered the specular in a seperate video. then in AE i just used it as a matte.

Very nice animation.

I'm not sure why my sphere renders faster than others. Perhaps because I kept the poly count lower? Higher poly count slows things down. On the other hand, going too low on poly count results in larger polygons, which tend to be "seen" by the ray-tracer more often, and requires more culling. Or maybe it is because my polygons are facing inwards, unlike every other sphere I've ever seen.

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maybe because they are invwards.
but you agree that it renders faster? or is it only on my computer? because its an obvious change.

ice-boy:

Everything I do is faster than anybody else's implementation. :)

I'm impressed that you notice the subtle stuff I do - always. You're the only one who really got excited about gamma correction in shaders, and realized you could do it yourself all over the place.

My new shadow catcher has the same behavior. Poser has a built-in shadow catcher. I am making a new one in shaders, which should be slower. Mine does 10 times more stuff, renders better, and has lots of control parameters. But mine is faster than the built-in one.

I work on these tools for days, weeks, even months. The EnvSphere and its shaders took me about 150 hours. I did over 400 test renders. The GenIBL tool took months of research, experimenting, and testing. I went down so many wrong paths on that one. Then one day, while I was on my usual 2 hour drive to one of my clients, I was thinking about how refraction works, and I worked out how to do the perspective correcting lens in my head. I was so excited, I coded it up as soon as I got out of the car. I was so surprised it worked. Who would have thought that setting the index of refraction to 1,000,000 would have any practical use? Still, after that I fine tuned the number of polygons in the probe for hours, trying to find the minimum that produced accurate reflections, so it would be fast.

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new test render. it looks good. used only your shaders.

Quote - ice-boy:

Everything I do is faster than anybody else's implementation. :)

I'm impressed that you notice the subtle stuff I do - always. You're the only one who really got excited about gamma correction in shaders, and realized you could do it yourself all over the place.

My new shadow catcher has the same behavior. Poser has a built-in shadow catcher. I am making a new one in shaders, which should be slower. Mine does 10 times more stuff, renders better, and has lots of control parameters. But mine is faster than the built-in one.

I work on these tools for days, weeks, even months. The EnvSphere and its shaders took me about 150 hours. I did over 400 test renders. The GenIBL tool took months of research, experimenting, and testing. I went down so many wrong paths on that one. Then one day, while I was on my usual 2 hour drive to one of my clients, I was thinking about how refraction works, and I worked out how to do the perspective correcting lens in my head. I was so excited, I coded it up as soon as I got out of the car. I was so surprised it worked. Who would have thought that setting the index of refraction to 1,000,000 would have any practical use? Still, after that I fine tuned the number of polygons in the probe for hours, trying to find the minimum that produced accurate reflections, so it would be fast.

well i notice things buecause i read everyhitng you writte. i like all the technical stuff that you do. i dont always understand them but i try my best to do.
you are obvious a very smart man. you are also a thinker. i think you wrotte many time that this is your hobby and that you like the chalange. i agree.
i just hope ...i really hope that one day the people who are working on poser will take your ideas.

the best things about this new sphere is :

preview.
this is a big thing because you can set your scene in 5 seconds. before that it was almost a pain to do it with all the renders.
fast rendering.
it works so fast its not even funny anymore.

about gamma correction: are you really sure that i am the only one? gamma correction was basicly the last step where you made poser renders look.....REALISTIC. the difference is obvious. i really think there should be a sticky. and a mini tutorial. there should be NOOOOO renders without gamma correction.

shadow catcher? hmmm. whats this? when you render only the shadow and make the ground invisible?

GEN IBL is groundbreaking :)

*Bump" This is amazing. I have a question for you BB, I'm preparing a set of lights to go with some background images for poser to put first in freestuff with low resolutions then a larger package in the marketplace. I don't have panaramic images to work from and use your wonderful tools with, I just want to set it up to utilize the provided image. I want people to be able to just put a model in it, possibly use the "shadow only" ground plane (P6) and render. There would be no objects other than the model(s) in the scene. How can I make an IBL using one reference photo? Boni

In the sample note that I used a displacement map (granite) applied to the ground plane to suggest the grassy ground in the photo.

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

i'm not BB, but i'll take a crack at part of this...

first of all, he has a better shadow catcher that he gives away. i suggest pointing at that instead of the ground plane one.

second, you can fake it. you've already got the ground worked out, now all you need is the sides and top. if you don't want to make more of a pano and use BB's environment sphere, just use a box. the thing is to give his IBL generator something to work with that works fairly well. IBLs aren't very precise, so you don't really have to be precise with the environment. also, we don't really know what we can't see, so you can have some fun. just don't give the IBL generator a huge unnatural patch of a solid color. once you have a rough environment on all sides, load up his IBL generator and make some IBLs. for anything lit, i use the method suggested by (iirc) Synthetic. and iterate my IBL renders to simulate the bounce. but if everything is already lighting independent (like a background photo usually is), then i'd just do the one IBL render.

My mind is reeling with al the possibilities. Thank you very much!

**Dear cobaltdream
I understand the prop part ... but I'm just trying to create a light set to go with my backgrounds. I'm not looking to use any props at all and would like to have a "fake" IBL to go with it to somewhat match the image background, which is the primary element in my free stuff and my future commercial product.

I will certainly use this for other projects though and am grateful for all the wonderful stuff that BB has.

Boni****
**

Boni

"Be Hero to Yourself" -- Peter Tork

? i'm not sure what you mean by "the prop part?" if you mean the environment prop, you don't have to use it. like i said, you can use a box with walls facing inward. just put images on each side and the top.if you mean the shadow prop, i just wasn't sure if you were aware when you were suggesting people use the ground as a shadow catcher. a regular shadow catching ground doesn't take into account AO. if you're going to give away or sell background images, it would probably be good to refer people to bagginsbill's shadow catcher. but again, you don't have to. do you mean his IBL generation prop? because that's what i'm suggesting you use with your background images. to generate images for your IBL. but if the IBL generator is in a scene with a big empty space, where empty is the background color, the image won't come out right, and then your light won't come out right.

Quote - I have a question for you BB, I'm preparing a set of lights to go with some background images for poser to put first in freestuff with low resolutions then a larger package in the marketplace. I don't have panaramic images to work from and use your wonderful tools with, I just want to set it up to utilize the provided image. I want people to be able to just put a model in it, possibly use the "shadow only" ground plane (P6) and render. There would be no objects other than the model(s) in the scene. How can I make an IBL using one reference photo?

You may be surprised to learn that IBL lighting is pretty darn vague, and does not require much in the way of accurate detail. So it turns out that any sort of partial landscape, with nice broad horizontal strokes of color (sky, trees, ground) will work just fine.

Load your photo onto my environment sphere. Yes it is not a full panorama, but that doesn't matter - we're just trying to surround the figure with general colors.

Use my GenIBL tool to then generate an IBL image from that environment.

Then you can just discard the environment sphere. Load your background photo, and your IBL probe image. Of course, you need to tweak some directional light and do a good job with the shadow catcher. But that is true regardless of how you make the IBL.

I'll post a couple examples. I went on flickr.com and found a couple nice landscape photos that are free for use in derivative works. I will render with Simon and a few primitives. No great effort was made to match the shadows to the scenery. It should be enough to get the idea across.

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Here's the first IBL I made.

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Here's the render with the background photo. Notice in the IBL that there is clearly a seam. But it just doesn't matter.

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Second IBL.

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Second render.

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Oh - I forgot one thing. Because the photo is only a partial panorama, intended for a background, when you wrap it around the e-sphere, left and right get swapped. For most photos this won't matter. But if there is significant differences in the environment left versus right, you might notice this in the lighting. To solve this, when you load the photo on the e-sphere, set U_Scale = -1 to swap left and right.

I didn't bother doing that for the above demos since there's not any obvious difference from one side to the other.

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Ok. I'm following the IBL generator steps to make my own IBL.

I used your Envosphere. I put this-----> img6.imageshack.us/my.php image into the Panoramic slot in the Materials room.

This is the outcome:

I'm stuck on this step:

Quote - Create an IBL light (if you don't have one already). Load the IBL probe image file into it like any other. In other words, the Image_Map should be plugged into the light shader's Color input. Set the Intensity of this light to 100% (or 1.0 in the material room). Make sure that the IBL Contrast is 1, not 3.

The IBL probe file? The one I just made?
Light's shader? Do you mean to make a new light, check IBL, then plug the new IBL (above) into the image map?
Color input?

My IBL is tilted.

why is it rotated? did you move the camera?

Quote -

The IBL probe file? The one I just made?
Light's shader? Do you mean to make a new light, check IBL, then plug the new IBL (above) into the image map?
Color input?

yes. go in the light settings. made a new image node. load your IBL image.

Quote - why is it rotated? did you move the camera?

No I did not.

I first started out doing the Envosphere tut. In the tut, we were told to lower our focal length to 15. My default is 100. I did that at first and then just moved my camera forward using the controls in the document window.

Next I went on to do the IBL Generator tut. I deleted out of the old scene and made a brand new one. I made my document preview dimensions 400X400 as it's usually 1024X800.

I added my Envosphere, applied my image in the materials room, enabled raytracing and set it to two bounces. I then rendered.

Quote - > Quote -

The IBL probe file? The one I just made?
Light's shader? Do you mean to make a new light, check IBL, then plug the new IBL (above) into the image map?
Color input?

yes. go in the light settings. made a new image node. load your IBL image.

Ok. Gotcha. Thanks!

dont change the camera settings when you are doing your own IBL.
he said this when you are using figures,props,.... this is for the final render.

start again. make a new document. delete the james figure. turn off every light. load enviorment sphere. and then load the IBL generator . then go in the material settings and load your image.

Quote - dont change the camera settings when you are doing your own IBL.
he said this when you are using figures,props,.... this is for the final render.

start again. make a new document. delete the james figure. turn off every light. load BB EVN sphere. and then load BB IBL generator. . then go in the material settings and load your image.

To clarify---when I followed the Generator tut, I started a new document and this time didn't move the camera. My focal is 100 by default. I moved the camera when I was following the Envosphere tut.

I didn't know we were supposed to delete all the lights though. Ok will start over and repost. Give me 2 minutes.

Used this image------>[img4.imageshack.us/my.php](http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=17186249665fc336850o.jpg)

looks good to me

Here's the other (1st) one. I did it again. Still, it's rotated.

maybe i was wrong and this is how it looks.
i guess its like that because its a hill.

> Quote - maybe i was wrong and this is how it looks. > i guess its like that because its a hill.

Ok.

Iceboy---when you collect Pan images at the sites BB supplied, do you download at preview size or at a larger size? I've chosen to download the larger sizes and it doesn't fit my scene. The rocks don't show. And if we're to use the smaller size, is it best to also use that size when creating your IBL?

This is the Envosphere with the background image applied.

The tilt is real, not some mistake you made in technique. There is a hill in the environment, so of course it shows up in your lighting - when there is a hill above you, you have green light coming down on you from the hill.

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" The rocks don't show. "

Yes they do if you look down. The rocks were under the feet of the photographer, not hanging out in front of him. So if you want to see the rocks you have to point your camera down.

As for size of the image, this is magically irrelevant. The environment sphere includes everything in the universe in all directions from one viewpoint. It does not matter how much resolution this image has, except to reveal more or less detail. The fact remains that regardless of image pixel density, it includes everything 360 degrees.

Getting a bigger or smaller version won't change how much you can see in a render. The only thing that affects how much of the image "fits" into your scene is going to be your camera focal length, just like real life.

When you use your camera, and you shoot a portrait of a friend, you cannot see what is above you, behind you, under you, etc. Those are all not visible no matter what the focal length is, unless you go to a fish-eye lens. Your Poser camera works just like a real one. Decrease the focal length, and you increase your field of view to include larger slice of the 360 degree pie.

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Duh! I should've known. I completely understand now. Thanks BB!

If the IBL image is matched to the background of the EnvSphere do i need to make a new IBL image everytime i move or rotate the camera, or does poser take this into account and the IBL is rotated also to give a correct lighting in the scene...ie.... if i do and animation of a camera rotating round a person will the light from the IBL follow the camera or stay stationary so that it is locked to the lights position?????

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

shedofjoy:

Short answer: no you don't need to make another one if you move the camera.

You do need to make another one of you move (rotate) the environment sphere or any significant 3D objects big enough to influence the ambient lighting in a big way. Little things, like a tree or a fountain won't influence it. Even a big thing, such as a house, will only matter if it is really close to your subject.

I have to take apart your question, though, because the answer I'm giving is not caused by the reason you were asking about.

"If the IBL image is matched to the background of the EnvSphere do i need to make a new IBL image everytime i move or rotate the camera ..."

No.

"or does poser take this into account and the IBL is rotated also to give a correct lighting in the scene"

Here's where the wheels fall off. The answer to this is also no.

You presented the question as an either/or, with an expectation that I could answer YES to at least one of the elements of your question. But what you said in the second part is also false and the answer is no to both parts of your question.

No you don't need to make a new IBL image.

No it does not rotate to give correct lighting.

The reason the lighting remains correct is because it DOES NOT ROTATE at all. If the IBL rotated with the camera, then it would become wrong as soon as you moved the camera, which is what you're trying to avoid, but your reasoning would have PRODUCED the problem instead of avoiding the problem.

I hope I'm being clear - when a question is fuzzy like this, the answer may be more confusing than helpful.

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its like in the real world. you dont rotate the world. you move the camera he he :)

Darn! that's what's wrong with my outdoor photography!

I can send my big friends home now. :biggrin:

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Just read this again, and the last part has a problem in phrasing, too.

"if i do and animation of a camera rotating round a person will the light from the IBL follow the camera ... "

No.

"... or stay stationary ..."

Yes.

"... so that it is locked to the lights position?"

NO! IBL probes do not stay locked with the "light position". The position of the IBL light (as if it were a spotlight) is not relevant - moving the light widget around does not move or rotate the IBL light projection at all.

I've seen a few posts recently where somebody talked about positioning the IBL light widget like that matters. If you move the light widget to front, back, side, whatever, it doesn't matter - it has nothing to do with where the light comes from.

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i understand, the IBL light is fixed to the universe and not the camera (as in real life)...
thankyou Bill

Getting old and still making "art" without soiling myself, now that's success.

if you connect an image to the diffuse then you can see the image in the preview. but if you use lights you can not see everything .

i noticed that if you connect the image to the ambient and set it to 1 you see everything. so when you load your ENVsphere ,connect the image to the ambient and set it to 1. that way you will see the image when you set up your camera. before rendering turn ambient off.

Good tip. Worth pursuing for preview work. Thanks.

NO! IBL probes do not stay locked with the "light position". The position of the IBL light (as if it were a spotlight) is not relevant - moving the light widget around does not move or rotate the IBL light projection at all.

I've seen a few posts recently where somebody talked about positioning the IBL light widget like that matters. If you move the light widget to front, back, side, whatever, it doesn't matter - it has nothing to do with where the light comes from.

That much I assumed, however i noticed that when playing with the intensity setttings of "Preview" vs IBL light in the lower portion of that light's parameters panel, it would seem they throw the material node intensity settings out the window -
I am trying to turn preview intensity down on the light designated for IBL, but it seems to throw the intensity of on the rendered IBL.

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Yeah preview for IBL is crazy wrong. In preview, it behaves just like an infinite light and ignores the data in the image you have loaded.

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lets say that there is a sun on my 360 image. matching it with the infinite light by hand takes a lot of time and still is not looking right.

is there a way to match poser lights with the en-images? with the info that we have from poser lights?

Here's how I do it. It's pretty easy. I'll post the steps here with pictures. You should have no trouble doing the same. It takes less than two minutes to get the angles perfectly matched.

Preview with your Main Camera. Set it for a wide angle focal length. I usually use 20mm.

Load your environment sphere.

Depending on which way your lights are it may look dark and hard to see.

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To make it easier to navigate, load a point light and set it to 100%.

Now everything on the sphere is lit well in preview.

Don't forget to turn this light off or delete it later.

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Set your camera dolly x,y,z to 0,0,0.

This will make the camera point at the center of the universe.

Orbit the camera until the sun is directly centered in your view. The grid lines on the ground will help with this.

If the sky is very bright, it may be difficult to see the grid lines. In that case, once you're near the sun, change the point light intensity. I used 50% here.

Increase the camera focal length to 40mm so you can be more accurate.

Continue refining the orbit, carefully position the sun centered on the center grid line intersection.

Now look on the camera parameters. Write down the xOrbit and yOrbit.

Mine is xOrbit=42, yOrbit=216.

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Now select your main light - the infinite light you're using for the sun.

Set the xRotate parameter to the negative of your xOrbit value from the camera.
For me, this is xRotate = -42 degrees.

Set the yRotate parameter to the camera yOrbit + 180.
For me this was yRotate = 216+180 = 396.

If the values are correct, the infinite light telltale indicators should line up. There are two.

One is a projection on the ground and should point straight up into the sun.

The other is a projection from the infinite light direction. This one is now viewed edge on. If everything is lined up right, it will form a perfect horizontal white line through the center of the preview.

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That's it!

Your light is now perfectly in line with the EnvSphere sun. Shadows will match perfectly.

Turn off your point light.

Set up your shadow catcher and render. For me this works every time.

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this is f... mind blowing. amazing. it matches 150%
thanks

could we use this also for spot lights? i guess not?

A little time consuming, but fairly simple to execute! I just wish there was some way to map the bright points of light to match up the lights to highlights and photon bounces to make a better cheat for a faux global illumination.

If I was smarter and more experienced, I'd be sure that there must be some kind of Python script that be written to do that.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

what do you mean? i dont understand

so let's say this was an indoor scene with a huge window with the sun on one side and another big window without the sun on the other side. this methods takes care of light from the first window, but light from the second window doesn't really have a good solution. the simplest is to make it part of the IBL with the IBL generator, but that won't affect your specularirty, and probably won't have the falloff an area light would. it won't cast shadows, either.

I guess Cobalt has the better idea of doing it. I'm over thinking it, I guess. Making light sets from 360 images is just too much work. Doing a couple of lights IS much easier, and far faster.:laugh:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

well, probably the best idea is to figure out how to script a lighting grid of point lights given an object. one to make rectangular grids with n x m dimensions and y spacing, and one for objects where you can set them at every vertex. and each having central control for color, turning shadows on and off, and intensity. and of course using bagginsbill's inverse square falloff material.

but the IBLGenerator trick doesn't work half bad.

Attached Link: http://www.physicalc-software.com/tutorials/ibl/

face_off documented a process using some tools that makes an infinite light set automatically by analyzing your lat/long image. If starting with an IBL probe, you must convert it to lat/long first. If you're using my EnvSphere and GenIBL, we go the otherway, starting with a lat/long image and generating an IBL probe.

HDRShop can go both ways. But GenIBL works with props and Poser lights, too, not just photos. Anyway, you can start with GenIBL, then HDRShop the result.

However, he links to the key element called the "light gen plugin" for HDRShop. The link is dead. I don't know if it is still around or not.

This is quite an involved process, so if you thought my sun-matching steps were time consuming, don't even bother reading it.

Follow the link.

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Attached Link: http://http://gl.ict.usc.edu/HDRShop/lightgen/

there we go

Attached Link: http://gl.ict.usc.edu/HDRShop/lightgen/

Almost - there was an extra prefix there.

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Just because something is time consuming, doe NOT mean it ISN'T worth-while! Anything worth doing takes time to invest.. I was just looking for quick and easy fixes.:laugh: 'Quick and easy solutions' DO exsist for all manner of things out there. Just because I don't know them means I must learn something, and I embrace that!

Thanks for all the info! I'm off to go reading! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

I was only teasing :)

I've spent 3000 hours on a skin shader.

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Quote - I was only teasing :)

I've spent 3000 hours on a skin shader.

Dude--seriously......you need a life. :laugh: So do I. I'm one to talk. :lol:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!

this is what i have been talking some months or weeks ago. this is a good tutorial. i think this can be done in poser.
www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/maya/ldri/index.html

sometimes we just dont have hdri images. we have more ldr images on the internet. so you try to find out what is superbright in the image. and then you make a ''matte''. that way you can get superbright for reflection.

what do you think bagginsbill?

Attached Link: Not your average IBL image

Sure - I did something like that in 2006 before Poser could read an HDR image. See the link.

Here's an newer version of that shader, using the image from the tutorial you linked.

The Bias Value_1 multiplier scales the LDR image (in gray scale) so some of it is above 1. Then using a low Value_2 pushes all luminance down that is below 1, and all luminance up that is above 1.

The resulting value is used to multiply with the original colors and add some of that with the original colors.

On the left, you see a darkened version of the result, but the sun and it's reflections are still hyper-colors, because they were way above 1.

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Too bad the image links at RDNA have not been reestablished, it would have been interesting to see the final results. BTW, would your ENVSphere serve the same purpose described at the RDNA forum?

hb:

I'm confused. The images in the linked thread have been restored. When you go there, are they missing for you?

And, yes, I made my EnvSphere because I got tired of doing all those UV tricks on the Poser sphere.

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Oh, I need to recheck the site. Definitely did not get the images showing up on my browser. Thanks for the response.

amazing.

basiclly we dont need now always HDRI panorama images for realistic reflections.

nice.

> Quote - Sure - I did something like that in 2006 before Poser could read an HDR image. See the link. > > Here's an newer version of that shader, using the image from the tutorial you linked. > > The Bias Value_1 multiplier scales the LDR image (in gray scale) so some of it is above 1. Then using a low Value_2 pushes all luminance down that is below 1, and all luminance up that is above 1. > > The resulting value is used to multiply with the original colors and add some of that with the original colors. > > On the left, you see a darkened version of the result, but the sun and it's reflections are still hyper-colors, because they were way above 1.

how could we make the shader so that we could control how bright it is?
for example to make sometimes 2 times brighter or 5 times. so that we could type in a number?

i made here a control map.

Here's a shader that let's you enter a specific brightness multiplier for the highlights.

I used a Bias node again to make the mask directly from the source image, but you can use any mask you want.

Note the Color_Math:Max function to combine the boosted version with the original. Whichever is larger is used.

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Here is a render using the LDR IBL only, no boost.

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And the simulated HDR lighting, by boosting the IBL highlights.

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Using a sky image, unboosted LDR at 50% intensity.

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Same sky image, boosted 5X LDR at 30% intensity.

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bias softens the shadows?

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I'm using bias to soften the transition from LDR (low dynamic range) to simulated HDR. This has no influence on shadows. It is influencing the lighting, particularly the parts of the image that would have been a lot brighter if the photo was HDR.

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Would you have any recommendations for simulating torch light?

my scene is in a cave. a few flickering torches and a fire elemental facing off a telekinetic human.

never been in this situation in real life, but would imagine light would bounce off the cave wall to softly backlight the human character.

geologically, the cave is strontium rock.

fastscatter on the elemental to simulate a glowing lightsource?
with an edge blend node to make the edges of the elemental orange-ier?

Thanks!

Chicken pot pie today.
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First I'd light the scene with orange point lights wherever there is a torch. I'd use the inverse square falloff shader on these lights. Lighting in an enclosed space with a local light source looks fake if you don't do the ISF thing. If the elemental is supposed to be a signifant source of light, I'd include a point light or two near him, or wait for Poser 8. :-O

Then I'd generate an IBL using my GenIBL tool, measuring the direct illumination in the scene. I'd then add this to create the ambient bounced light. Or I'd wait for Poser 8. :-O

As for the elemental himself, fastscatter is not going to do anything for you. Here's what I'd do.

I'd load two copies of the figure. I'd call the second copy Flames and conform it to the first figure. On Flames I'd hide the eyes, teeth, inner mouth, etc. Then I'd load a good flame shader onto the skin materials of Flames. You probably don't have such a thing, but I do. When I have some time, I'll finish it up and post it. Can't right now because I'm working on Poser 8.

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Have a look here for some discussion of lighting and shading a cave.[

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3376139&ebot_calc_page#message_3376139](http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3376139&ebot_calc_page#message_3376139)

Also here:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3382929&ebot_calc_page#message_3382929

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Here's a quick demo/test of my flame shader on a figure. I made the shader for a fireplace situation, not an elemental, and it has some issues requiring adjustment.

The key feature of this shader is it will animate like real flames. I was going to sell this when I finished it, but maybe I'll give it away.

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Thanks for the help. I was about to give up the cave scene, but now I'll give it a fresh start.

(I don't want to make my scenes wait for P8. Alyson isn't so attractive.)

Cheers,
Lara

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BB, you are hinting that lighting is different in P8?

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Weapons of choice:

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Eheheheh.

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Awesome! Thanks bb :o).

Laurie

Hi Bagginsbill,

I installed your Environsphere- and followed the directions- I tried your double gradient material- and with the LIGHTS set at zero-there was no illumination on the model, I also loaded the EnvPanoramic material- and tried out a few hdr;s such as the HDRFX Pond texture-and a few others. They appear as background- nicely rotatable btw! But do not cast light on my character or her props.
PoserPro2010 Mac. Any suggestions?

Did you turn on IDL? You never mentioned it so I have to ask.

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Well of COURSE I..... ur uhm, eh....DOH! :-)

Thanks Bagginsbill-

i wonder what the correct color of the sky is? if you look at this links you can see that almost every image has a different blue color for sky.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=equirectangular

i am wondering now if someone knows what the default color of the sky is during the middle of the day, in the morning and at night. not with clouds. only the sky.

i know that this is on google. but i can not find it. so it would be great if someone can help me.

thanks

Some of those images look like they have been polarized to saturate the blue intensity.

Ice-boy: here is the answer, which I agree with 100%:

*"The sky is actually colorless. The color you see is actually sunlight being diffracted by the gases in our atmosphere. On a clear (non-hazy, non-polluted) day, the sky appears blue. This is due to the high concentration of Nitrogen. However, in a smog clogged city, the sky can appear white to dirty brown. This is due to the high concentration of hydrocarbons. You can even get a red-orange sky if you're near a large fire or if a large volcano has just erupted."

*And it was found with one google hit.

yea hhte problem is that its all color corrected.

but how to find the true blue sky.

And here are some other explanations.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/otx/outreach/ttalk/colors.php

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/sky_blue.html

ice-boy is this because you use the sky for lighting? Otherwise, the rules of 3d CG photorealism says that real color is whatever appears in photos. grin

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i use always your sphere for lighting.

the problem is that since every picture has a different blue it always looks different. ok .

but sometimes i just want the default blue.

i know that 3dsmax has a default sky for lighting. but i can not find what color for blue it uses.

my advice is to choose your own default blue. don't rely on someone else to judge color for you. you're the artist, you should chose what works best for your work.

kobaltkween if i would be able to choose my blue i wouldnt ask here he he he ;)

oh, sure you can! just find a good sky photo, take that blue and tweak it until you feel it's right. you've modeled some great stuff, so you've definitely been looking at the world. trust your instincts.

ice-boy

Let me ask you in all seriousness. Do you think the whole cloudless sky is the same color or is it a gradient?

I'm talking about using an accurate scientific instrument, and also a high-end DSLR with and without a polarizer, and also with a film camera, and also subjectively with your own eyes.

Is any sky one color as measured by any of those devices?

How about you measure at 10 am, then at 3 pm. Same color?

How about in January and July? Same color?

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

which gets to my point. there isn't one correct color for sky. so if you want a default sky blue, you should just choose what blue works best for you and your work. which someone else's might not do.

Sounds like painting yourself into a corner. Restrict yourself to one setup and not having the desire to challenge yourself under a different set of variables.

Sky color depends widely on time of day AND time of year. For instance, there's a saying here in my area of the states: "October's bright blue weather". That's because of the angle of the sun in the sky during that time of year, the dryness of the air (moisture, smog, etc all affect the color as well). There really is no one standard color. It depends on where you are, what time of day it is, what time of year it is and the weather conditions.

Laurie

I just went outside (in my pajamas because it is my relaxing Sunday morning here) with my Nikon D90 and my 300mm lens. The lens gives a very narrow field of view. I set the camera fully in manual so there would be no changes to color, contrast, or exposure. All shots were as "neutral" as the camera can go, and identical parameters were used for each.

Note that nobody would publish a sky with these colors in a "finished" artwork, because this is real color, not enhanced over-saturated polarized looks the way people want in phtotos.

Choose whichever you want to make your gradients.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

This is very close to looking *at* the sun.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

This is looking straight up with respect to the ground, and about 60 degrees away from the sun.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

90 degrees away from the sun, 30 degrees from the horizon.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Sun behind me, looking about 25 degrees above the horizon.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Open sky about 60 degrees from ground and sun.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

Now I switch to my widest lens - 17 mm.

Here I used my roof to avoid blinding me or my camera. But I am looking directly at the sun here.

Note the camera settings are identical as earlier.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

And turning about 60 degrees away from the sun, this is what I see. The sun is on the left. You can see the edge of the roof.

Renderosity forum reply notifications are wonky. If I read a follow-up in a thread, but I don't myself reply, then notifications no longer happen AT ALL on that thread. So if I seem to be ignoring a question, that's why. (Updated September 23, 2019)

thank you BB for the reference pictures.

i have now a blue color that i am very happy with. i will also use this blue when i save 360 pics from flickr.

comparison. before /after.

as you see before that it looked a little to purple.

now i have a nice blue tint.

one of the problems finding the right sky is IMO that on the internet everything is color corrected.

for example if the sky is lighting up the road and the grey building then they should be blue right? since it is color balance its grey in the pics. so the sky color is not the right sky color.

because if i use the sky color from the pics it will not get me a grey road. but now i have everything i need. thanks BB.

p.s.: yes my post is very confusing. sorry for my bad english.

Or you could simply grab a digital camera and take your own blue sky images.

i have a cery cheap camera and when i tryed i got colors that would not work very good for lighting.

but BB's pics helped me a lot.

Forum: Poser - OFFICIAL

Subject: Free Environment Sphere/Dome props and Effects Shaders