Just been away for a couple of days. so I missed these posts. The reason I was concerned about depth queues was related to the absence of animatable depth of field (ie for doing focus pulls or varying the focal distance with the movement of a character through a scene). If P5 supported depth render outputs that would be sufficient (or even preferrable) as the variable distance blurring could be added in post production. In P4 it is possible (but not reliable) to produce a depth render using depth queing by killing all the lights and ambience, setting the background colour to white and rendering with depth queing, which renders close up objects black and blends to white at greater distances. The problems with this method in P4 were due to bugs in the algoritm when some object origins were close to, or behind, the camera plane. If these have been fixed (I submitted a fairly extensive bug report to CL) it would still be possible to use the P4 renderer to generate the depth map and use it to add depth of field to a firefly rendered image, but the image may not exactly match up. Python will provide a solution as well, so long as the relevant renderer settings are accessible, and it was also possible in ProPack to 'fake' a more reliable depth queing method with a (large) number of semi-transparent planes with white ambience parented to the camera. Bill