I know that patches don't happen overnight all by themselves. But I just hope Corel doesn't take forever to get one out, I bought Bryce 5 when it came out and there are some major bugs that are preventing me from usiing it altogether. About the secret render technique, your right, it, takes the ability of the application, I've been using Bryec since version 3 and i don't know of any secret techniques. But thiis person postd a thread a while back saying they knew something we didn't, and ti was this big secret and it would revolutionize the way we render in Bryce, but they weren't going to tell us for a month. I doubted it then and I doubt it now, I don't think there is any big technique and I think they were pulling our leg. By the way Clay, i checked out your site, and oyu have some really great use of textures, like on Tyrus, really nice stuff.