I'd like to see it. I'll try making a wheel in the vertex room, and see what happens.I'll check the link out, that would be great if Max techniques would work in Carrara's vertex modeller. Thanks for the tip! Post that wheel in here when you get it done. I'm anxious to see what it looks like. Will you be rendering ti in Carrara or Max? What version of Max do you use? The render engine in Max4 is incredible, I got the demo of it from Computer Arts last month and Wow! Render on, kaom