PAGZone, I did use Rhino to make the wheel. I probobly could end with something close to it in Carrara but it would be about 10 times the work. Rhino's Nurbs tools are so easy to use. But you could do something close in the spline modeller, or even the vertex room, but I suck at making complicated vertex objects. I'm sure someone out there could end up with very similar results though in Carrara, I do love Carrara for the things that it can do, it does them well, for a low cost modeling application. Thanks, kaom