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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Updated: 2020 May 06 10:25 am)


 Subject: Antonia - Opinions?

odf opened this issue on Oct 27, 2008 · 12024 posts

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  -Timberwolf-    ( ) ( posted at 10:27PM Tue, 18 November 2008  · @3336968

I don't like  the inner mouth to be a seperate Bodypart , because when doing my own (open mouth) face morphs I had to hack the cr2 to make the teeth follow . I am simply not skilled enough for that.It is a main reason for me, why I don't like V4 .In case head and inner mouth will remain in one bodypart you can also select each material zone ore group seperatly in your modelling app - even inside Poser - ,to exclude teeth when creating a face morph .


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 12:14AM Wed, 19 November 2008 · edited on 12:25AM Wed, 19 November 2008 · @3337008

I've thought about this for a bit now and will most likely make the upper and lower teeth and the tongue(*) a separate body part each. More specifically, I'm thinking about introducing a body part 'jaw' with the lower teeth and gums as their geometry. The 'mouth open' morph will be a JCM following the jaw movement, not the other way round. If you make an alternative morph, you should be able to inject it into the existing channel. But I'm no expert on cr2 magic, so maybe there's some flaw in my glorious plan that I'm not aware of yet.

The teeth come at only 10% of the total polygon weight, so making them a prop to keep the mesh size down doesn't seem very effective. Remember that I'm intending to make the lo-res version with just a little more than 10k polys fully functional, which should make her ideal for background figures and such. Also remember that I'm doing all my modeling on that lo-res version, so you don't lose any detail, just Poser doesn't quite know how to render it nicely.

Momodot, you're right. I looked at my own teeth for reference, which isn't fair, because I'm definitely more long in the tooth than Antonia is meant to be.

("long in the tooth" - I'm killing myself here.)

EDIT: (*) Make that two bodyparts for the tongue, actually: Tongue and TongueTip.


  pitklad    ( ) ( posted at 7:12AM Wed, 19 November 2008  · @3337167

Attached Link: Easy way to make ERC morphs?


There is a fantastic python scipt to create ERC really easy!
select master bodypart & than master morph
set start 0 & end at 1
than select slave bodypart & than slave morph
set start 0 & end at 1 or if it is bend for example set 0 and the angles that correspond to the value "1" for your master dial
press test (don't mind what you see :biggrin:)
press confirm
press build PZ2
than save pose
apply this pose to your character and you will have the erc permanently on your character

Easy! no notepad editing at all!! :biggrin:

Thanks ockham for this precious poser gem! :thumbupboth:


My FreeStuff


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 7:18AM Wed, 19 November 2008  · @3337171

That looks very useful, pitklad. Thanks for the link!


  -Timberwolf-    ( ) ( posted at 8:03AM Wed, 19 November 2008  · @3337198

Great,thank you .


  keihan    ( ) ( posted at 8:21AM Wed, 19 November 2008 · edited on 8:28AM Wed, 19 November 2008 · @3337205

Lovely and awesome model! I think I can't say anything that hasn't already been said.

As an add though, I'm not sure how adept you are at rigging, but this may be worth a look. It is a much more detailed rigging setup but the results are spectacular.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2752937

And though I am a big fan of "low poly" modeling, being a modeler myself, it has it's drawbacks as well as benefits. With today's systems it's fairly subjective in terms of weights and balances. As you had mentioned, if subdivision was a possibility within Poser, itself, there would be little issue and the drawbacks of "low poly" models would be a moot point. The major drawback being detailed, 3rd party, morphing of the existing geometry without subdivision. Sure, displacements could be used to simulate some details, but comes with it's own inherent set of limitations and at rendertime it's still as much of a resource hog as is a higher poly model. Regardless, I think the majority of modelers make it a goal to stay at or under a certain poly-count as a rule and I think it is a good thing, but as systems become more powerful it is only natural to raise the bar a bit and alleviate some of your own headaches, as a modeler, to say "okay, maybe a few more thousand polys isn't going to hurt". I for one, am anal about poly count and have some architectural models that I have never released simply because I couldn't get the suckers under 100,000 polys without causing issues or losing detail that I found necessary (but architectural models are another monster altogether hehe). I finally released one recently after it sat on disc for a couple years and I have had no complaints as of yet (Helloween House.... approx 115,000 polys). And it is merely a static prop with no interior designs. Ughh... LOL. However I have done some research and found automotive models and others (very fine models to boot) that average on 200,000-400,000 polys! So, I would say a figure between 30,000 and 100,000, by today's standards may still be acceptable as "low poly".
Just my thoughts ;o)

~Will


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 12:19AM Sat, 22 November 2008 · edited on 12:26AM Sat, 22 November 2008 · @3338975


The finished bottom teeth and the beginnings of the tongue.

I'm not sure whether I should add more detail to the molars in the lo-res mesh or not. That hi-res will have enough resolution to do that, so maybe I could just create a 'detailed teeth' morph for it when I finalize the figure.


  JOELGLAINE    ( ) ( posted at 3:02AM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339031

Where's the canine teeth at? Ya know, the pointy ones! The ones that vampires have too much of? :blink:😕

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 4:39AM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339058


I believe the pointy teeth live in the upstairs mouth. Like here.


  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 5:15AM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339068

Looking good, I think for the low poly this amount of detail would be fine. And as you say for the higher poly version you can add to it.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


  JOELGLAINE    ( ) ( posted at 5:29AM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339074

I have smaller pointy teeth in the lower jaw,too. :laugh: It's some of the only teeth I have in my mouth. :lol:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:37AM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339078

Quote - I have smaller pointy teeth in the lower jaw,too. :laugh: It's some of the only teeth I have in my mouth. :lol:

You filed them, admit it. :tt2:


  aella    ( ) ( posted at 1:48PM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339307

ooo i can't wait to see more antonia


  kobaltkween    ( ) ( posted at 11:22PM Sat, 22 November 2008  · @3339580

seriously, the canines are in the bottom, too.  only smaller.  right now, hers look filed down.



  odf    ( ) ( posted at 12:08AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339592


Well, I guess there are varying degrees of pointiness, and the ones I gave her were a bit on the other extreme. So how's this?


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 12:12AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339593


Here's the complete set of choppers from the inside, with the tongue out of the way.

I think I'm getting pretty close to finalizing the geometry (pending any changes I might do to make her work more smoothly with Phantom3D's rig). After I redid the eyes, she's back down to under 37k polygons, by the way. I wasted way too much mesh there.


  kobaltkween    ( ) ( posted at 12:30AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339601

better.  just my opinion, but to me they look too flat in terms of thickness and too rounded still.  they look spade like.  it's not so much that they need to be sharper, but that the curve to the tip needs to be less like an oval.



  JOELGLAINE    ( ) ( posted at 3:50AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339644

Lower teeth are narrower because they fit inside the upper teeth, otherwise they do look better!  That would make them less 'spade'-like,IMO. Lower teeth have rectangular tops.  Look at your own teeth!  You do have lower teeth? :blink:  Maybe I assume to much? :laugh:

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:26AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339672


Here's my final word on the teeth for now. Won't touch them again until I have open mouth and smile morphs, so I can see them in context. Anyway, the mesh is fine now, all they might need is some final sculpting.


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:27AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339673


Here's the complete set from the front.


  nyguy    ( ) ( posted at 7:13AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339701

I do have on request for the teeth, please have them with a decent map.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

  JOELGLAINE    ( ) ( posted at 7:25AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339708

No indecent teeth!  That is a MUST! :laugh:  Looks good to me, now.  You nailed the teeth! Yay!

'Nailed the teeth'...that doesn't sound right to me. Sound like a nightmare to Dentaphobic people. LOLOLOL :lol: You did good!  Sounds better!

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

  kobaltkween    ( ) ( posted at 10:28AM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339779

they do look very good, and i think you're right to wait on detailing until you're working in context. 



  JB123    ( ) ( posted at 3:10PM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339932

The top teeth look a little wide at the back. I think most peoples top back teeth line up almost evenly ( on the X axis ) with the bottom even if the have a overbite. Hey I could be wrong but mine are pretty even. Other than that there looking good.


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 4:51PM Sun, 23 November 2008  · @3339999

Quote - The top teeth look a little wide at the back. I think most peoples top back teeth line up almost evenly ( on the X axis ) with the bottom even if the have a overbite. Hey I could be wrong but mine are pretty even. Other than that there looking good.

I guess you may be right. I'll have a look at that.

Although it shouldn't matter too much, because one hardly looks at the outsides of a person's back teeth in an everyday situation.


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:48AM Mon, 24 November 2008 · edited on 5:52AM Mon, 24 November 2008 · @3340253


I added some geometry at the fingertips. She can haz long nales nao. Will do the same for the toenails, just so they don't look all grown in. There should be enough polys for simple claws and such, but if not, I guess people can always make props for that, so I'm not sweating it.

Oh, and did I mention new eyes with much fewer polygons? She's back to just over 37k, including teeth and all. Or just over 9k in the lo-res version. Even with some more minor adjustment, I'll stay clear of the magical 10k.


  JOELGLAINE    ( ) ( posted at 6:00AM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340256

That's not bad at all! 37K is not bad for a 'hi-rez' version. Especially if the lo-poly version is only 9K? WOW, that is VERY impressive to my mind. Especially looking so good!  Damned good work.

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

  Faery_Light    ( ) ( posted at 9:59AM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340342

She looks better and better. :)


Let me introduce you to my multiple personalities. :)
     BluEcho...Faery_Light...Faery_Souls.

  nyguy    ( ) ( posted at 10:17AM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340362

As with all new models I have a question

What about hair? How does hair for say either V4 or V3 look on her? Are you planning on releasing some hair with her?

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

  bwldrd    ( ) ( posted at 1:43PM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340501

All I can say is "WOW" and can't wait for her release. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Consider me insane if you wish, but is your reality any better?


  JB123    ( ) ( posted at 2:02PM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340513

Quote - > Quote - The top teeth look a little wide at the back. I think most peoples top back teeth line up almost evenly ( on the X axis ) with the bottom even if the have a overbite. Hey I could be wrong but mine are pretty even. Other than that there looking good.

I guess you may be right. I'll have a look at that.

Although it shouldn't matter too much, because one hardly looks at the outsides of a person's back teeth in an everyday situation.

I agree. The pic you posted of the teeth from the back actually looks fine it's the front view that looked a little off. I doesn't really matter though like you said. How many renders do you see someone pulling thier upper lip up past thier teeth? BTW are the teeth going to be a seperate bodyparts from the head?


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 3:46PM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340559

Quote - BTW are the teeth going to be a seperate bodyparts from the head?

That's the current plan. Will have to see how it goes.


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 4:07PM Mon, 24 November 2008  · @3340568

Quote - As with all new models I have a question
s

What about hair? How does hair for say either V4 or V3 look on her? Are you planning on releasing some hair with her?

I was planning to make some hair for her eventually, but if I wait with the release until all the little details are sorted out, you guys will wait forever. I've done some tests with Kozaburo hair props and quick magnet fittings, which didn't look too bad, but I haven't tried any more elaborate hair figures.

I'm thinking that the first release will be very bare-bones. I'll call it the development and evaluation release and put it online as soon as I get the rigged version from Phantom3D, merged it into the final figure and had some quick testing done to iron out the worst kinks. It will have a rather restricted, strictly non-commercial license to prevent merchants from selling products for a half-finished figure.

Then hopefully the community will contribute with lots of feedback and add-ons like textures, props, clothes etc., maybe even a UV-map - because frankly, I've never done one or even made a texture, and I'd probably suck at it - that will go into the final release. As I mentioned before, she will be free - at the very least as in beer. Personally, I'm happy to let anyone have to the geometry and do with it whatever they want as long as they give proper credit. I'll have to check with Mike how he would like the rig licensed, though, seeing as he is thinking about using it for other figures as well.


  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 1:05AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340756


Hi, Y'all,

Someone asked about scaling on the rigg, specifically the pear shape and waist. (momodott?) I'm setting that up now.

First pic is of the hips waist and upper legs scaled up.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 1:06AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340758


Next is hips and buttocks scaled up with the waist left narrow.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 1:10AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340760


Last is hips butt scaled up with the waist shortened.

The scaling all seems to be working out good.  the second hip was all I was unsure of, but it seems to work fine and still bends well.  I am wanting to be able to set up full scaling for the hands and feet as well so you can have shorter hands and longer fingers or whatever you wish.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


  corvas    ( ) ( posted at 1:30AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340773

Looking great :D


  momodot    ( ) ( posted at 2:01AM Tue, 25 November 2008 · edited on 2:14AM Tue, 25 November 2008 · @3340780

Attached Link: Xanna for V4.2

Wow!!! That scaling is great... I would far rather have good scaling options and maybe some body handles as opposed to morphs. Scaling hands/fingers feet/toes to look individual is always so damn difficult... it is wonderful you are considering this.

Are you implementing body handles to control breast/buttock and thigh masses? I figure a hell of a lot of breast morphs can be avoided with a properly zoned body handle for the breasts... I have used them for shaping as well as gravity and movement. Sara even had body handles for facial expressions IRC. I saw an amazing animation of expresions by body handle on YouTube once... a zBrush figure I think it was.

As for body morphs... if this is to be a dream figure, what do people think of an external magnet control rig in place of FBM's? I mean such as the Xanna control by K3D... the demo examples are stylized but I had used it to get terrific realistic body types when I had a computer to slow to operate with the loaded V4 .cr2. Xanna characters can also be distributed by pose and I imagine by simple cut-and-paste of dial settings. It is a great alternative to morphs and it deforms clothes to match the figure deforms. Anyway, with Xanna I was able to make light characters by sculpting the figure with the controller and magnet rig and then spawning the reults as a morph with a script. It was a system resource saver at least in my case. Though I have used it less now that I have a better machine.

Also, should there be individual finger grasp and spread on the hand part?

What do people think for that matter of posing with dials on the main body or a single alternate body part dial set... like the morph forms on some G2 and V4.2 compound poses?  I find them interesting in that poses could be distributed as cut-and-paste dial setting but I think it must be "all or nothing" since controlling say only the head and torso from the body and the limbs separitely is impossibly confusing. Do people using William-the-Bloody's Pose Magic control prop (http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=55166&vendor=38802) find that workable or does any tweeking directly by mouse tool or body part dial then screw everything up? That tool even controls facial expressions from the control prop. I don't know what I think about this... posing is certainly easy and fun with the WtB tool but sometimes I get muddled in the fine tuning.

Anyway, you guys work is amazing! Thank you.



  momodot    ( ) ( posted at 2:14AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340783

Attached Link: Xanna at RMP

Additional Xanna info...
http://market.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?ViewProduct=64375&WhatsNew=Y

Details NUDITY NSFW!!!!
http://www.kaposer.com/XannaV4tutorial.htm



  odf    ( ) ( posted at 2:17AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340786

Mike, those look great. I really like it that you're going to make all the scaling controls fully functional. There's a lot of unused potential there in existing figures.


  JB123    ( ) ( posted at 2:35AM Tue, 25 November 2008 · edited on 2:37AM Tue, 25 November 2008 · @3340789

ODF
That's good about the teeth bodyparts. Makes it  much easier to create head morphs without warping the inner mouth.

Phantom
The scaling is looking really good.

Momodot
That Xanna magnet thing is awesome. I while back I was wondering if that could be done in Poser. ERC slaving multiple magnets to a master magnet. Sort of a lord of the rings thing. One magnet to rule them all. Lol.  Yeah the great thing about magnets is you can tranfer to clothes very easily. I don't know about the embedded in the figure stuff like V4, G2's etc. I think it bloats the figure too much but an outside controller like that would be very cool.


  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 2:55AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340794

Momodot I was indeed thinking of using magnets for the buttocks region, since with this new type rig that part now spans 2 and possibly three groups and while JCM's will do the job for what I had in mind it would involve two,possibly three morphs for the JCM, and since that area now spans two groups I cannot use a body handle as is my want.  But a magnet would do the trick nicely being able to span groups with no problem.  Also if I'm not misunderstanding a magnet can also be linked to a bone ROT just like a JCM. For the breast however, I am going to use a simple body handle.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 3:51AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340813

Quote - Mike, those look great. I really like it that you're going to make all the scaling controls fully functional. There's a lot of unused potential there in existing figures.

I agree, the controles are already in the rigg and may as well be used.

Quote - I'll have to check with Mike how he would like the rig licensed, though, seeing as he is thinking about using it for other figures as well.

I can answer that right now.  A bit of a rant, but I don't believe in saying someone else can't use my ideas just because I thought of it first. Knowledge, knowing how to do something, is a function of the mind and is free to all of us. Rigging is not something you can just pop into a new figure and use, you're going to have to move things around and fit it to the geometry of the new figure, so your JP's are going to be different anyway. So anyone can use my rigging ideas anyway they wish. There has been too much of this I thought of it so you can't use it stuff, and it's rediculous. A mesh is a different story it's a tangible object and is copyrightable, However the methods and techniques used to create the mesh are not and can be freely used. Know what I mean?

well that's my answer.

cheers

Mike.


A HOMELAND FOR POSER FINALLY


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:21AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340849

Quote -
I can answer that right now.  A bit of a rant, but I don't believe in saying someone else can't use my ideas just because I thought of it first. Knowledge, knowing how to do something, is a function of the mind and is free to all of us. Rigging is not something you can just pop into a new figure and use, you're going to have to move things around and fit it to the geometry of the new figure, so your JP's are going to be different anyway. So anyone can use my rigging ideas anyway they wish. There has been too much of this I thought of it so you can't use it stuff, and it's rediculous. A mesh is a different story it's a tangible object and is copyrightable, However the methods and techniques used to create the mesh are not and can be freely used. Know what I mean?

I couldn't agree more. Glad we're on the same page there.


  JOELGLAINE    ( ) ( posted at 6:52AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340867

I agree. You can copyright a painting, but not the idea of paints, in another manner of speaking,

Don't you touch my meshes,though! :laugh: I'll have a lawyer bite ya!

I cannot save the world. Only my little piece of it. If we all act together, we can save the world.--Nelson Mandela
An  inconsistent hobgoblin is the fool of little minds
Taking "Just do it" to a whole new level!   

  momodot    ( ) ( posted at 9:30AM Tue, 25 November 2008  · @3340935

Well, a LOT of people appreciate you guy's generosity in this... not only as a practical matter but very very much for the principal in it. Man, I love getting to witness this kind of work even if it is "look but don't touch".  And I get to touch?!



  Kerya    ( ) ( posted at 2:14AM Wed, 26 November 2008  · @3341417

She looks really characterful - and I love her armpits.


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 8:34AM Sun, 30 November 2008  · @3343257


I finally started to work on the UV maps. How's this for seams so far?


  JB123    ( ) ( posted at 1:10AM Mon, 01 December 2008 · edited on 1:11AM Mon, 01 December 2008 · @3343672

Looks good. I find Uv mapping a pain in the arse, but then again I don't have much patience for the tedious aspects of 3d creation. What program do you use for uv's? I like Blender myself ( makes things pretty easy even for a noob like me).


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 1:36AM Mon, 01 December 2008  · @3343679

At the moment I'm using the free demo version of UV Layout, which means that I have 40 days to complete the maps. 😉

I know I should learn Blender one of those days, but I keep putting it off. I had a look at it a long time ago and even ordered the manual on Amazon. But years and years went by and the manual never happened. Maybe things are better now instruction-wise.


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