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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Updated: 2020 May 06 10:25 am)

 Subject: Antonia - Opinions?

odf opened this issue on Oct 27, 2008 · 12024 posts

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  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:18AM Mon, 27 October 2008 

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

Some of you might seen her in my gallery. Antonia is an original human model I've been working on - with interruptions - for the last three years or so. The initial motivation was probably my frustration with the Poser characters available at the time. This made me turn to ZBrush and then Wings3D and experiment with character modeling.

Long story short - I think the geometry is close to being finished. She's rigged for Poser, although there's still a lot of fine-tuning to be done on the joint setups. Once I've finished the teeth and maybe done some more small fixes, I'll UV-map her and... well, what exactly?

See, the thing is, I'd be more than happy for people to have her, make lovely pictures and create content for her, some of which I might be able to use. But I have no ambitions to be a merchant, let alone invest all the hard work that would turn her into a product that might have the slightest chance to compete with the Victorias of this world. Actually, if Victoria 4 had been around in late 2005, I might have just bought her and never had the experience of 'rolling my own'.

Now, this is where - possibly - you guys come in. I can see myself doing the UV map and finishing the rigging as best I can, then put her up somewhere on the web as one of a million free item. If I'm lucky, maybe people will like her and make additional content for her. But, if some of the talented people on here take a liking to her, then maybe - just maybe - we could work together and make her really awesome.

Anyway, this thread is for critiques, comments, suggestions, offers of collaborations, strategical advice and just plain "Gimme, gimme!!!" shouts.

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:21AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321813

Here's a closer view of her face. The hair is by Kozaburo, by the way, and the pearls are a free item by one UweG. Everything else by yours truly.

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:30AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321816

And the lo-res a.k.a. original version. I'm making Antonia in Wings3D and subdivide once for Poser export. The original has around 9600 and the standard Poser version a bit more than 38000 polygons. I had to turn ambient occlusion off for this render because I'm still using Poser 6 which is prone to produce artifacts if things aren't very, very smooth.

I'm using a not quite up-to-date version of BagginsBill's upcoming VSS skin shader, by the way. She has no texture except for the eyes and the transmapped lashes and brows.

  jonnybode    ( ) ( posted at 5:34AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · edited on 5:38AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · @3321817

Ok here goes!

WOW!  :-)

I really like the head/face,  the body looks good also but the face is outstanding, well done on that part.

The body looks pretty natural but needs maybe a bit more definition where the wrist meets the hand.

If you make it available I definitily get the model, for free or cash (im a sucker for unique models).

Regards / Jonny

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:34AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321818

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

Here's a screenshot out of Wings3D, showing the mesh and grouping.

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 5:43AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321819

The face looks great, lots of character.  There are a few things I would do differently (will do differently, as I'm working on a similar project although not intended for Poser) but many things about your model that are great.  I'd like to see a wireframe and also a full body view from front and back.  Here's some visual feedback attached, and of course I'm certainly no expert.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 5:43AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · edited on 5:45AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · @3321820

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


edit:  The weakest thing about your model is the navel, that really looks strange.  Everything else is anatomically OK, although I think the areolae are bulging kind of a lot - not impossible to find in the real world but imo very unusual.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:45AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321822

And the mesh for the face.

jonnybode:  Thanks! I'm glad you like her. Good catch, by the way. The wrist are one of the areas I'm not really happy with yet.

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 5:47AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321824

I'd also like to see how you modeled the latissimus, where it goes from the back to the arm pit.  It's something that pretty tough to model and I can't think of any Poser character models that really have it done right (no offense to anybody).

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 5:51AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321826

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

yeah you did a good job with the arm pit, that's not quite the way I've done it but it's good.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 5:53AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321827

The jawline on the head is very good also, better than I've got so far.  Great model!

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  jonnybode    ( ) ( posted at 6:05AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321835

I think this model looks way better then other newly released 100 000+ polygon characters, you made good use of your 38000 polygons (can one say that?).

Regards / Jonny

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:10AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321839

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

And here's the wireframe from the back.

pjz99: Wow! Thanks for the in-depth critique. That's really very helpful. I've seen the model you're working on and am looking forward to watching your further progress.

I have to admit I've neglected the navel for a long time. And I'm kind of fond of the bulgy areolae, but I guess it's time to say goodbye to them. I can always bring them back as morphs.

More renders coming up. In the meantime, excuse me while I look up anatomical terms in English. :)

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 6:20AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · edited on 6:20AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · @3321843

re: the areolae, they're not wrong, they're just unusual.  If you like them, it's your model :)

The wireframe of the back looks good, although you might want to bevel some of the edges in the back of the knee to get a good hard crease there when the knee bends.

edit: now that I think of it, same goes for the inner elbow

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:23AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321844

jonnybode: I like to think of it as making good use of 9600 polygons. ;) It's too bad really that Poser doesn't support Catmull-Clarke subdivision or I could just import her as is and do any finer details via displacement maps.

One thing I find really awesome about working as low-poly as possible is that once you get the topology just right, changes in shape are really easy. Then again, getting the topology right is a major headache. :D

  dyret    ( ) ( posted at 6:24AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321845

The navel could maybe use a little work. But great model. Get her some clothes!

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:32AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321854

pjz99: Good idea with the creases. I'll try that when I get back to working on the joints.

No, I think it definitely makes more sense to give her flat areolae by default and add a morph to make them bulgy, than the other way round.

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:41AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321857

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

Here's a full frontal in Poser.

  richardson    ( ) ( posted at 6:41AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321858

You won't need a  "Franka Potente" profile morph...;D

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:48AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321864

richardson: Ha! So you remember that, do you? Even better: when I do make morphs or her, I won't have to worry about ZBrush choking on badly placed poles. :P

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:49AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321865

dyret: Sadly, I suck at modeling clothes. That's why I'm looking for volunteers. ;)

  originalkitten    ( ) ( posted at 6:52AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321867

She is gorgeous! Most impressive :O)

"I didn't lose my mind, it was mine to give away"

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:56AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321870

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

..and the back.

That's it for now with the images, unless there are any special requests. I'll work on the navel and some other details that have been mentioned and post updates when I'm done.

  jonnybode    ( ) ( posted at 7:26AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321884

Hi again!

I saw that Phil C's WW2  now has support for the free character "K", Maybe you can ask him if he could support this character too?
Or if maybe the creator of Crossdresser?

That would solve a part of the clothing issue, also Dimension 3D has a program called second skin (not second skin textures) that makes good bases for pants and sweaters.

Unfortunately my own modelling skills are limited.

Regards / Jonny

  nyguy    ( ) ( posted at 7:33AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321888

My clothing modeling skills are very limited, though I could take a crack at it. Just getting the basic shape of the figure is the easy part.

Poserverse The New Home for NYGUY's Freebies

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 7:50AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321904

In a pure aesthetics sense, you may want to bring in the waist and the rib cage at the back side a little bit, it's a bit too straight although you can certainly find people shaped like that.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  Marque    ( ) ( posted at 8:08AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3321914

Well I'm impressed. Not only with the great model, excellent job btw, but also with the great critique of her. Gives me hope for when I try.  I'm ready for her when you kick her out of the nest.

  TheOwl    ( ) ( posted at 10:14AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322001

Her natural face is what I want in this. Can you make do a pose so we can see how it looks like when limbs bend?

Passion is anger and love combined. So if it looks angry, give it some love!

  momodot    ( ) ( posted at 10:36AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322010

Utterly beautiful!

  SSAfam1    ( ) ( posted at 11:28AM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322037

She's lovely. :)

  SSAfam1    ( ) ( posted at 11:39AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · edited on 11:43AM Mon, 27 October 2008 · @3322042

Quote - dyret: Sadly, I suck at modeling clothes. That's why I'm looking for volunteers. ;)

Really? I'd think modelling clothes would be a walk in the park for someone who made such a beautiful figure such as Antonia.

  PapaBlueMarlin    ( ) ( posted at 2:33PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322106

I think she looks pretty good.

  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 2:43PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322114

Looking again at how you have the bodyparts grouped, I am pretty sure this chest/abdomen border is going to give you real problems when bending, due to the stair step line of edges on the border.  IMO you're going to have much smoother bending there if you can manage to have a line of edges follow the border, instead of going across it diagonally like you have now.

My Freebies (main)

My Freebies (alt)

  PapaBlueMarlin    ( ) ( posted at 3:56PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322155

Does she have morphs yet?

  momodot    ( ) ( posted at 4:49PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322195

Are you happy with the rigging? I wonder if you could get phantom3D to collaborate since he is doing neat stuff with rigging. http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2752937&page=1

  flyerx    ( ) ( posted at 5:11PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322205

Nice model. Since you want people to work on it why don't you put it up on a site, setup a version control system and make people submit changes. That way you do not have to individually keep track of everyone doing work on the model.

good luck,

  kirwyn    ( ) ( posted at 5:21PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322214

Excellent Work!

  Marque    ( ) ( posted at 6:20PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322240

I may give it a shot on clothes too. Love the face.

  Miss Nancy    ( ) ( posted at 8:52PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322322

it looks very good to me.  can ya post a close-up of the crotch and inside of mouth,
in case the others are too embarrassed to ask?

  SSAfam1    ( ) ( posted at 8:56PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322326

Quote - it looks very good to me.  can ya post a close-up of the crotch and inside of mouth,
in case the others are too embarrassed to ask?


  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 9:18PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322342

  Starkdog    ( ) ( posted at 9:56PM Mon, 27 October 2008  · @3322363

Awesome model!!!  It is trully amazing what can be done with few polys.  I can't wait to see how she does when posed.  I did have some generic pants, shirt, dress base meshes that I am re-building, and I would try to make some things for her to wear.  -Starkdog 

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:24AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322481

Miss Nancy: The inner mouth is pretty much a work in progress at this stage. I've started to separate and shape the teeth, but there's no tongue yet.

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:39AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322489

jonnybode: yep, once she's out and about and I see that she's being used, I'll definitely contact Phil C to see if he's interested. Incidentally, I'll be happy to try my hand at some clothes or convert existing ones. It's just not a priority right now, as there are so many other things to work on.

pjz99: That's actually the border between the collar and the chest you're looking at. She's got a lot of collar because anything that follows the arm movement has to be in the parent of the 'shoulder' (Poser for upper arm). I'm by no means an expert on rigging, but as far as I understand, the shape of the actual border between groups is not so important, as long as one gets the angles and falloff zones right.

PapaBlueMarlin: Nope, no morphs yet. I have to figure out which program to use for those, anyway. If I make them in Wings3D, which would be nice as I'm used to it's interface now, I'll have to come up with a clever way to restore the original vertex numbering because of the way WIngs handles symmetry. That shouldn't be too hard, but that's essentially the reason I haven't done any morphs yet. That script has to be written first.

momodot: Oh, if I could get phantom3D interested in rigging her, that would be phantastic. But he seems to have a lot on his plate at the moment, so I wouldn't dream of asking.

flyerx: Yep, I'll do that as soon as I find a free hosting site that supports Mercurial (or git, if there's no way around it) and allows that kind of content.

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 5:57AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322494

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

Here's the requested crotch shot. Poser render coming up.

Explicit enough?

  odf    ( ) ( posted at 6:13AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322498

Content Advisory! This message contains language, violence, nudity

And here's the render. I had a quick check of the TOS, and apparently I can still post genitals, just as long as they don't touch anything, right?

Just to be save, I clicked all the available advisories.

  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 6:54AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322520

Hi odf, Antonia's looking great, good job with the topology,  low poly is the most difficult it seems to me, but better in the long run.


  odf    ( ) ( posted at 7:26AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322544

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

Here's a quick and dirty contrapost, just to show that she can, to some extend, pose. But as I said, the joint setup is very basic. What's more, certain parts that used to bend nicely don't anymore because I made changes in the geometry and haven't yet adjusted the setup accordingly.

  momodot    ( ) ( posted at 8:51AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322575

Really really nice!

  Diogenes    ( ) ( posted at 11:45AM Tue, 28 October 2008  · @3322644

Quote - Here's a quick and dirty contrapost, just to show that she can, to some extend, pose. But as I said, the joint setup is very basic. What's more, certain parts that used to bend nicely don't anymore because I made changes in the geometry and haven't yet adjusted the setup accordingly.

You know I have found that basic straight forward rigging placed properly is usualy the best. I've toyed with all sorts of complicated rigging scemes and have found that the solutions that really worked were all simple basic changes. She looks very good to me so I'd stick with this rigging and make small changes in placement and settings till you're happy. But the shoulders look great to me, and that's quite an accomplishment, shoulders are very hard.


  bagginsbill    ( ) ( posted at 11:54AM Tue, 28 October 2008 · edited on 11:54AM Tue, 28 October 2008 · @3322647

Excellent work! Gimme.

This is a little bit off-topic, but I just have to say you are a master of light and shadow. I know how the VSS shader works (after all, I wrote it) but I'm still dazzled by how good she looks despite having no skin color map.

I wonder if it would be good to make this a "poster child" for a 100% (or nearly 100%) procedural human shader.

I could do a lot more detailed stuff with just a few masks. No need to do a high-res texture. I just need a few control masks for the figure, and then I'd drive all the effects from that.

Lip mask - to color the lips and possibly apply makeup
Oil mask - to produce variation in specular effect, and also to control the application of procedural pores (did that with Apollo) so when you zoom in to the face you see tiny skin details.
Sunshine mask - to produce subtle darkening on surfaces that face the sun for color variation (palms and inside of arms, armpits, inside of thighs, are generally lighter than other areas). This mask would also control production of freckles.


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