Forum: Poser


 Subject: Yet another node question..

SerpentineFire opened this issue on Jul 25, 2011 · 59 posts


  SerpentineFire ( posted at 8:44AM Mon, 25 July 2011 · edited on 8:51AM Mon, 25 July 2011


OK so here is the thing. I have a second skin lingerie for a character I am making and it is silk/satin. In the picture you can see it :)  I want to make JUST the lingerie part look shiny, is there a way of isolating that part with nodes so that ONLY it looks shiny and not her legs or neck or any body part for that matter?

  bagginsbill ( posted at 8:51AM Mon, 25 July 2011 

You need a mask and blender(s). A mask is like a transparency map, but you don't use it for transparency. You use it to identify areas of a prop or figure that belong to one of two different materials. You use black for one area, white for the other.  Once you have a mask, you look at the two materials and compare them, in preparation for combining them. Where they are the same, the combination is trivial - use the value or node that is common to both. Where they are different, you place a Blender node, and set or connect the two values in Value_1 and Value_2. The mask goes into the Blender's Blending input, and set it to 1. So - if you have two different color maps, blend them. The mask will decide where to use each. If you have two different specular nodes, blend them. The mask will decide where to use each. If you have two different bump maps, blend them. The mask will decide where to use each. If you have the same node but a different number in a particular parameter, blend them - use two math nodes to hold each value and plug those into the blender.


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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 9:08AM Mon, 25 July 2011 

OK, I know this is going to sound irritating, but is there anyway I can get a screen shot of what you are talking about?      > Quote - You need a mask and blender(s). > > A mask is like a transparency map, but you don't use it for transparency. You use it to identify areas of a prop or figure that belong to one of two different materials. You use black for one area, white for the other.  > > Once you have a mask, you look at the two materials and compare them, in preparation for combining them. Where they are the same, the combination is trivial - use the value or node that is common to both. Where they are different, you place a Blender node, and set or connect the two values in Value_1 and Value_2. The mask goes into the Blender's Blending input, and set it to 1. > > So - if you have two different color maps, blend them. The mask will decide where to use each. > > If you have two different specular nodes, blend them. The mask will decide where to use each. > > If you have two different bump maps, blend them. The mask will decide where to use each. > > If you have the same node but a different number in a particular parameter, blend them - use two math nodes to hold each value and plug those into the blender.

  SamTherapy ( posted at 9:31AM Mon, 25 July 2011 

Download my Vampirella freebie from ShareCG.  It's for V3 but it illustrates exactly what you are attempting.

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 9:41AM Mon, 25 July 2011 · edited on 9:47AM Mon, 25 July 2011

> Quote - Download my Vampirella freebie from ShareCG.  It's for V3 but it illustrates exactly what you are attempting.   OK thank you I will

  SamTherapy ( posted at 9:49AM Mon, 25 July 2011 

Attached Link: Vampi Second Skin

Here it is. The way I set it up allows you to use any character skin with the Vampirella suit.  You can do the same by following the example given in the file. 

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  bagginsbill ( posted at 9:50AM Mon, 25 July 2011 · edited on 10:02AM Mon, 25 July 2011

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/forum/showthread.php?31709-Dual-Materials-with-Stencils

Look here.


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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 10:33AM Mon, 25 July 2011 

> Quote - Look here. Thank you that is brilliant. 

  Afrodite-Ohki ( posted at 7:06PM Mon, 25 July 2011 

You might also want to use your Mask as a Displacement Map so that your silk/satin will look slightly raised from the skin.


  SerpentineFire ( posted at 2:12AM Tue, 26 July 2011 · edited on 2:22AM Tue, 26 July 2011


I am about to give up on this totally. I followed the instructions and it doesn't look like anything. Thanks for trying guys and thanks for the information. This is what I ended up with. Looks more like velvet than silk :S

  SerpentineFire ( posted at 2:38AM Tue, 26 July 2011 


BTW this is my settings... Im doing something wrong I just don't know what it is 

  millighost ( posted at 4:53AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

> Quote - BTW this is my settings... Im doing something wrong I just don't know what it is There should be some kind of shiny nodes in your node setup, if it is to look shiny (like silk). Currently there are only masks and textures (and the specular value is 0). How did you manage to get the large letters into the node-titles? 

  SerpentineFire ( posted at 5:11AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

> Quote - > Quote - BTW this is my settings... Im doing something wrong I just don't know what it is > > There should be some kind of shiny nodes in your node setup, if it is to look shiny (like silk). Currently there are only masks and textures (and the specular value is 0). How did you manage to get the large letters into the node-titles?  That is my problem, where does the shiny node go so that only the silk part looks like silk and not the whole body?? Oh the large letters is just photoshop :) 

  bagginsbill ( posted at 6:36AM Tue, 26 July 2011 · edited on 6:38AM Tue, 26 July 2011

If you don't know how to make either shader, then you won't know how to make a shader that does both. You don't have a reasonable skin shader and you don't have a reasonable silk shader. Specular effects are prominent on both although they are very different. In your original post you asked how to put the shine only in some places not others. I didn't know you should first have asked how to put shine on anything at all.  Now where to begin and how far to go? Hmmm. Well - first I'd use a Blinn specular node, white, .35, .4, .4 on the values, for the skin. That would go in the Alternate_Specular channel, with the channel value set to white. For the silky part, I might use the Anisotropic specular node. But that isn't really going to look  very real unless you do a lot of work. First, the cloth is not all silk - some is lace which is even less shiny than skin. Second, it needs to be 3-dimensional. Otherwise it will look like body paint. Then to combine, you run a Blender into Alternate_Specular to choose which specular to use. A line from the movie Untouchables comes to mind - What are you prepared to do? I like that word - prepared. It applies to you here. It is about what you're willing to do, as well as what you're *able* to do. You have to learn a lot more than how to use a Blender.


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  vilters ( posted at 7:09AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

A texture like this, allways needs a very good displacement map to give it its thickness; to get "life" in the cloth. Without a displacement map, it WILL allways look like bad bodypaint. The mask BB is talking about is to get that silk shine ONLY on the silk cloth. The skin looks "dull" also, and a blin nodo can help with that too. Read BB's post very carefully. Or send the origional cloth texture, and I"ll see what I can do tonight. [tony.vilters@pandora.be](mailto:tony.vilters@pandora.be)

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 8:19AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

> Quote - If you don't know how to make either shader, then you won't know how to make a shader that does both. > > You don't have a reasonable skin shader and you don't have a reasonable silk shader. Specular effects are prominent on both although they are very different. > > In your original post you asked how to put the shine only in some places not others. I didn't know you should first have asked how to put shine on anything at all.  > > Now where to begin and how far to go? Hmmm. > > Well - first I'd use a Blinn specular node, white, .35, .4, .4 on the values, for the skin. That would go in the Alternate_Specular channel, with the channel value set to white. > > For the silky part, I might use the Anisotropic specular node. But that isn't really going to look  very real unless you do a lot of work. First, the cloth is not all silk - some is lace which is even less shiny than skin. Second, it needs to be 3-dimensional. Otherwise it will look like body paint. > > Then to combine, you run a Blender into Alternate_Specular to choose which specular to use. > > A line from the movie Untouchables comes to mind - What are you prepared to do? > > I like that word - prepared. It applies to you here. It is about what you're willing to do, as well as what you're *able* to do. You have to learn a lot more than how to use a Blender.   Don't worry about it, you are right in you assesment. I have no idea what I am doing, and probably have no business trying to. I shall leave it to the professionals such as yourself. 

  SerpentineFire ( posted at 8:21AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

> Quote - A texture like this, allways needs a very good displacement map to give it its thickness; to get "life" in the cloth. Without a displacement map, it WILL allways look like bad bodypaint. > > The mask BB is talking about is to get that silk shine ONLY on the silk cloth. > > The skin looks "dull" also, and a blin nodo can help with that too. > > Read BB's post very carefully. > > Or send the origional cloth texture, and I"ll see what I can do tonight. > [tony.vilters@pandora.be](mailto:tony.vilters@pandora.be) Thank you but don't worry about it. It's really not important. 

  vilters ( posted at 8:27AM Tue, 26 July 2011 · edited on 8:29AM Tue, 26 July 2011

Content Advisory! Language advisory.

Never give up on a good idea, From time to time, BB can be "hard" in his answers. 8-( That is just his way to push us all into a better understanding of the material room, and produce a finer quality output. *He rightfully kicked my "ass" in the right direction, more then once :-) :-) :-)*

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 9:17AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

> Quote - Never give up on a good idea, > > From time to time, BB can be "hard" in his answers. 8-( > > That is just his way to push us all into a better understanding of the material room, and produce a finer quality output. > > *He rightfully kicked my "ass" in the right direction, more then once :-) :-) :-)* Nothing to do with him being hard or not. I really should just learn what stuff does before I attempt to use it. 

  vilters ( posted at 9:29AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

*"Quote"* *Don't worry about it, you are right in you assesment. I have no idea what I am doing, and probably have no business trying to. I shall leave it to the professionals such as yourself. * Oef, you are not giving up. Great. OK. Feel free to send or not, you can always compare both solutions as future reference material.

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 10:03AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

> Quote - *"Quote"* > *Don't worry about it, you are right in you assesment. I have no idea what I am doing, and probably have no business trying to. I shall leave it to the professionals such as yourself. * > > Oef, you are not giving up. Great. > > > OK. Feel free to send or not, you can always compare both solutions as future reference material. That was me being a smart ass and taking the p*** out of myself at the same time

  Afrodite-Ohki ( posted at 11:18AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

Serpentine, don't give up. We all started somewhere, nobody here was born knowing. What I suggest to you, though, is that you put this project aside for just a bit, and experiment with the shader options. The material room is something AMAZING, I adore it with a passion, and that because I'm a terrible mathmatician (knowing good math helps a lot in making good shaders). Were I any good with numbers, I'd probably be shrieking in happiness all the time when working with materials ;) there's so much you can do, such detail. Let's focus on the shine. Your Specular Value is set to zero and that would be fine if you had something plugged into Alternate Specular... As it's both Value zero and nothing in alternate, there's no way to have something shine in your shader. The purpose of putting a mask in Specular is to separate what should be the specular/shine in each part, but also if you don't want your skin to shine at all (skin does shine, but softly; I'd rather have no specular in skin than bad specular, and as you're starting in material room...), then black specular = no specular. You can use your mask to define that there's no specular in the skin part, and plug any "shine node" to the part of the Blender node that defines your white.   In that shader setting image you sent... Change Specular Value to 1, Unplug the texture from Input_2 (white) in your Blender_2 node (the one that's plugged to Specular_Color). Plug an Anisotropic node to your Input_2 in Blender_2. Render. Let's see. (You might want to change the Specular_Color to white without removing the node connected to it)


  hborre ( posted at 11:54AM Tue, 26 July 2011 

An excellent, comprehensive explanation of Material Room nodes.  

  cspear ( posted at 12:13PM Tue, 26 July 2011 

A big chunk of the problem is that you have to train yourself to think your way through Poser's labyrinthine node structure. You have to work methodically and patiently or you will get completely lost. Every time I have to go into the material room I scream inside because I know I'm going to have to construct a bewildering jumble of nodes to do something quite simple. And if I want to do something complicated.... aaarrggh! My dearest wish for the next version of Poser is that they've done something wonderful with this so that you could, for instance, package up a group of nodes that perform some useful function, hide all the spaghetti inside and just leave inputs and outputs 'open' ready to have textures, other nodes etc. plugged into them. If there were specific parameters inside that you were likely to change, it would be nice to be able to wire them up to controls - which you could label - on the outside of the box. It would be great to be able to save these and drag them into place from a library or call them up from a custom menu. I can dream...


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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 11:58PM Tue, 26 July 2011 

Ok, so here is what I learnt.. just to show I am actually interested in learning this stuff. OK so a blender node is used to blend two textures together and a transparency map is used to hide bits of one texture that you don't want to see.  So as I understand it, with the transparency map I am hiding the skin parts of the texture so that what I do only effects the silk bit?  Now I have seen how to make lips shiny but that effects the whole area. I just took the advice and I changed the node from the blender node and added a anistropic one, but again this has changed the color of the torso if you notice in the picture. 

  SerpentineFire ( posted at 11:58PM Tue, 26 July 2011 · edited on 12:02AM Wed, 27 July 2011


Ok, so here is what I learnt.. just to show I am actually interested in learning this stuff. OK so a blender node is used to blend two textures together and a transparency map is used to hide bits of one texture that you don't want to see.  So as I understand it, with the transparency map I am hiding the skin parts of the texture so that what I do only effects the silk bit?  Now I have seen how to make lips shiny but that effects the whole area. I just took the advice and I changed the node from the blender node and added a anistropic one, but again this has changed the color of the torso if you notice in the picture.  Also if you see the marks just above the top of the lingerie?

  vilters ( posted at 1:21AM Wed, 27 July 2011 

Check your transmap. Any loose-lost pixels in that area?

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 1:47AM Wed, 27 July 2011 

Ok this is INCREDBILY frustrating.  Where is a wall to bang my head against when I need one LOL Its still changing the color of the torso *WALL _ HEAD _ BANG* They should make a node for THAT!  Wall node plugged into a head node plugged into a BANG animation plugged into the node that is growing in the side of my head lol  Or maybe a node for screaming in frustration LOL This material room that everyone is speaking so highly of, right now I hate it LMAO Going to take a quick step back before I get a migrane

  SerpentineFire ( posted at 1:48AM Wed, 27 July 2011 

> Quote - Check your transmap. Any loose-lost pixels in that area? Sorry what do you mean by loose lost pixels? 

  vilters ( posted at 1:56AM Wed, 27 July 2011 


This should be in your mail by now. (with explanations) Just my 2 cents Click to enlarge

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 2:50AM Wed, 27 July 2011 

> Quote - This should be in your mail by now. (with explanations) > Just my 2 cents > Click to enlarge   It is and thank you, but I give up. It is p***ing me off now, obviously I do not have the knack. *WALL BANG HEAD* 

  vilters ( posted at 2:59AM Wed, 27 July 2011 

:-) Wait till the wall gets angry, and bangs back at you :-) LOL

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 10:54PM Wed, 27 July 2011 

I give up on Poser and it's material room. INCREDIBLY DISAPPOINTING! Maybe it is my lack of ability or something but it is definitely not producing the results that I want at all. Even with help and someone who seems to know what they are doing. It's... well it's, not as great as what people seem to make it out to be.. or like I said maybe all this is just beyond me. I have been "studying" the nodes and I will continue to, but at the moment this is... Hmm 

  vilters ( posted at 7:29AM Thu, 28 July 2011 · edited on 7:37AM Thu, 28 July 2011


After some experimenting, I came up with this temporary result. Current limiting factor are the cloth folds that are in the texture, that is also a bit too "hard" in some area's to reproduce some real satin fabric. But with a bit of texture work, it should come out OK. Color is adjusted in the blender node. Ach, the Poser learning curve . . . .

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 11:44AM Thu, 28 July 2011 


I have put this aside for a second and was just experimenting with the materials rooms.. I managed to make some kind of brass/gold and a very simple skin shader.. 

  SerpentineFire ( posted at 11:45AM Thu, 28 July 2011 


here is my skin...  I am really just trying to get a feel as to what the nodes do and how they effect things... 

  vilters ( posted at 7:12PM Thu, 28 July 2011 · edited on 7:19PM Thu, 28 July 2011


This is what i came up with in the end. Sorry had to compress to get below 200K Click to enlarge The color can be changed by putting another color in the Input_2 of the blender. For true colors, you'll have to make the texture a grayscale. but I liked this white-blue effect.

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  vilters ( posted at 7:38PM Thu, 28 July 2011 


An a cluse - up looks like this

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  MistyLaraCarrara ( posted at 9:22AM Fri, 29 July 2011 

looks great!   is there any way to make poser understand the transparent area of .png or .psd file as black, and read the non-transparent area as white?   that would save the extra photoshop steps of making a transparency mask.  :drool:  



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  hborre ( posted at 9:31AM Fri, 29 July 2011 

I don't believe so.

  bagginsbill ( posted at 9:31AM Fri, 29 July 2011 

MLP - I'm not aware of a way to do that. I have tried things that would be expected to work. 


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  vilters ( posted at 9:34AM Fri, 29 July 2011 · edited on 9:46AM Fri, 29 July 2011

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


@Misty check this setup. Sorry had to compress to get below 200K Click to enlarge The red is another texture and does not count. The white one, (with the nodes) becomes transparant. The yellow one uses the same setup but has a mild yellow plugged into Input_2 of the blender . (leaving it also mildly transparant) Displacement and bump control the "thickness" of the cloth. The blinn controls the shine of the cloth. The biggest advantage from this setup, is that you do not have to create a mask, and have lots of control of what is happening. Start with a good texture, and Poser does the rest for you. In cluse up, the middle one is "stunning".

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 10:36AM Fri, 29 July 2011 · edited on 10:40AM Fri, 29 July 2011

I must be the biggest ***** in the world because no matter what I do, I cannot get mine to go that way. I swear, every time I do it, I do something wrong. I GIVE UP !!! 

  MistyLaraCarrara ( posted at 10:41AM Fri, 29 July 2011 

imagining the possibilities for a node designed specifically for .png  :drool:



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  vilters ( posted at 11:16AM Fri, 29 July 2011 · edited on 11:16AM Fri, 29 July 2011

Oh! Oh! Dive, all stations clear to dive! MLP wants to be a nauthy girl :-) Ha- ha- ha- with a sword in a temple???? Running for a freezing cold shower . . .

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  MistyLaraCarrara ( posted at 11:32AM Fri, 29 July 2011 

> Quote - Oh! Oh! > > Dive, all stations clear to dive! > > MLP wants to be a nauthy girl :-) > > Ha- ha- ha- with a sword in a temple???? > > Running for a freezing cold shower . . .   tee hee "Emergency Blow, surface, surface"    i luv submarine parlance. :smile:



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  vilters ( posted at 6:01PM Fri, 29 July 2011 · edited on 6:03PM Fri, 29 July 2011


:-( Oh, so sorry to dissapoint you. :-( Allow me to properly introduce myself Tony Vilters Captain-Commander Belgian Air Force Retired   No blup- blup - blup- Navy  

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  vilters ( posted at 7:44PM Sat, 30 July 2011 


Combining Glossy and Blinn :-) Click, but you will need the mask for this one. :-(

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 11:39PM Sun, 31 July 2011 

Im scrapping the entire idea. im over it, I truly am

  MistyLaraCarrara ( posted at 9:32AM Wed, 03 August 2011 · edited on 9:33AM Wed, 03 August 2011

i know this is a reach, displacement only goes in the direction of the normals?  is there no way to influence direction?   like a feather's feathery stuff



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  MistyLaraCarrara ( posted at 9:36AM Wed, 03 August 2011 

> Quote - Combining Glossy and Blinn :-) > > Click, but you will need the mask for this one. :-(   kewl :smile:  what about making those ribbons come out more? too bad smart props can't read morphs.  smart props only follow bones? i wonder if that morph follower can super conform the ribbon with the breathing morph?



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  vilters ( posted at 9:38AM Wed, 03 August 2011 

Sorry, no there is no way to control direction. Only in the direction vertical to the surface. Up or down if you want to.

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  SerpentineFire ( posted at 9:42AM Wed, 03 August 2011 

I think I am going to stick to basic things like stick figures or something from now on.. this 3d stuff has me whipped. I hope the information in this forum though is useful to other people. Vilters feel free to do what you will with that second skin thing, I wont be using it anymore LOL 

  vilters ( posted at 9:43AM Wed, 03 August 2011 

If you want the ribbons to come out more? Make a second displacement map, only for the ribbons, and blend it with the origional. Put that blend in bump and sisplacement, and paly with the settings.  By changing the gray in the displacement map, you can put more "up-down" in the displacement.

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  MistyLaraCarrara ( posted at 9:48AM Wed, 03 August 2011 

> Quote - I think I am going to stick to basic things like stick figures or something from now on.. this 3d stuff has me whipped. I hope the information in this forum though is useful to other people. Vilters feel free to do what you will with that second skin thing, I wont be using it anymore LOL    the Exodus figure might be good. :smile:  It's 2d.  i forget exactly which thread it's in.



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  vilters ( posted at 9:52AM Wed, 03 August 2011 

@sepentineFire Oh no, the texture "a very good one"  is yours, not mine to give. I only made the material room setup. @ MLP Quote *"too bad smart props can't read morphs.  smart props only follow bones?* *i wonder if that morph follower can super conform the ribbon with the breathing morph?"* Is is a texture, blended with the origional texture via a mask.  It is NOT a smart Prop. it WILL follow all body mevements, including breathing. It is just a texture, that has been "lifted" a lilttle bit above the skin by the displacement. if you want the ribbons to come out more, see above for yet another displacement map to blend.

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  Afrodite-Ohki ( posted at 12:48PM Wed, 03 August 2011 

> Quote - > Quote - I think I am going to stick to basic things like stick figures or something from now on.. this 3d stuff has me whipped. I hope the information in this forum though is useful to other people. Vilters feel free to do what you will with that second skin thing, I wont be using it anymore LOL  > >   > > the Exodus figure might be good. :smile:  It's 2d.  i forget exactly which thread it's in.   This (very epic) thread: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2831954


  rokket ( posted at 8:02PM Fri, 05 August 2011 

> Quote - If you don't know how to make either shader, then you won't know how to make a shader that does both. > > You don't have a reasonable skin shader and you don't have a reasonable silk shader. Specular effects are prominent on both although they are very different. > > In your original post you asked how to put the shine only in some places not others. I didn't know you should first have asked how to put shine on anything at all.  > > Now where to begin and how far to go? Hmmm. > > Well - first I'd use a Blinn specular node, white, .35, .4, .4 on the values, for the skin. That would go in the Alternate_Specular channel, with the channel value set to white. > > For the silky part, I might use the Anisotropic specular node. But that isn't really going to look  very real unless you do a lot of work. First, the cloth is not all silk - some is lace which is even less shiny than skin. Second, it needs to be 3-dimensional. Otherwise it will look like body paint. > > Then to combine, you run a Blender into Alternate_Specular to choose which specular to use. > > A line from the movie Untouchables comes to mind - What are you prepared to do? > > I like that word - prepared. It applies to you here. It is about what you're willing to do, as well as what you're *able* to do. You have to learn a lot more than how to use a Blender. Heheheheeeee! I tried this. Wonderful! Genius! :)

  tonyvilters ( posted at 3:59AM Thu, 05 November 2015 

See here about the middle of the page => No mask needed in this setup. I let Poser build the mask internally using a Math_Functions node. https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2832094&page_number=2#

  seeker ( posted at 5:00AM Fri, 06 November 2015 

[tonyvilters](https://www.renderosity.com/?uid=821467) posted at 4:52AM Fri, 06 November 2015 - [#4237002](#msg4237002) > See here about the middle of the page => No mask needed in this setup. > > I let Poser build the mask internally using a Math_Functions node. > > https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2832094&page_number=2# This works great for black tattoos but it kills it a little bit when there's white in there and it leaves a white outline around the tattoo. I wonder if it would work with an unusual color like lime green for background.