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DAZ|Studio F.A.Q (Updated: 2019 Feb 01 1:12 pm)


 Subject: Daz Studio 4.9 Big Changes Incoming!!

ghosty12 opened this issue on Oct 28, 2015 · 502 posts

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  maxgrafix    ( ) ( posted at 6:11AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 6:15AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236492

Razor42 posted at 11:38AM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236420

This all adds up to, don't try as it can't inevitably be stopped? Unfortunately as a business this is a pretty flimsy option and I definitely wouldn't be putting you on the payroll for advice in this area. I'm having trouble discerning your actual point in all of this other than what I just stated, which is doing nothing, is better than something/anything.

You're trolling and making things up again about me suggesting DAZ shouldn't go ahead with DRM. The only thing I've said is that DRM has failed because it's been reverse engineered. And as long as there are those who are willing to crack DRM it will remain unfit for purpose. And I wouldn't employ you either. Why?, because you're the most unconvincing PR guru I've ever come across

I think Black__Days just pretty clearly explained above how DRM can be effective if not %100 ironclad guarantee forever of contents security. No one is talking about locking a file up for ever, I'm not sure anyone even thinks this is currently possible.

Many tech savvy people will disagree. All it takes is a simple internet search to know DRM has failed on many fronts. You know this but still troll this debate with your one sided opinion

Why make laws if people will only break them? How effective is a law if it is broken?

DRM isn't a law!!

The one point you have made abundantly clear is YOU DON"T LIKE DRM.

Wrong! I'm all for it, if it worked that is, and you're trolling again because you've clearly lost the debate. Can I suggest you brush up on your debating skills for future reference


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 6:18AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 6:19AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236493

parkdalegardener posted at 11:13PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236490

Razor42 posted at 5:25AM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236324

parkdalegardener posted at 1:39AM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236313

As long as Studio can do unencrypted exports then any DRM on imported content is moot.

So to export a figure as you describe you would need to export the mesh, then the morphs, the weight maps, the JCM's, Then rebuild the figure from the exports, redo the ERC settings, reattach all the texture maps and surface settings. Make sure all the naming conventions are correct or it won't work with other content, Re-save each preset option, reassociate all of the thumbs. Recreate the metadata. Forget any HD settings, Extract the data and create a new product directory wrapper. And at the end deliver it all bug free with no errors working to the same standard as a Daz3D QA'd product.

Wouldn't it be easier to just create a product and sell it at Daz3D?

I already have G1 and G2 running as Poser native. No DS needed. Took 10 minutes. I have props from DAZ that were in Studio formats when purchased. They are working in Lightwave, Poser, and Vue. Took less than 5 minutes. I have G3 running in Lightwave with a Lightwave rig. That too almost 45 minutes. It has a facial rig and uses the same skinning method as Studio. It is no where as difficult as you would have people believe to transfer assets from one format to another unless you lock up the import/export via encryption. People are not forced to create and sell at DAZ. They can use purchased assets in other software. I have no interest in reselling your mesh or pirating it online and that is the attitude that most from DAZ seem to be putting forward. If you are not using our assets directly in Studio then you are a pirate out to rip off DAZ by offering their products elsewhere to the masses or are using them in a format that DAZ isn't getting paid for. Remember; the mesh in Studio was not built in Studio.

As far as im aware none of what your describing will be affected by encryption of the product files. Export options will remain unchanged with DS you will still br able to do all of that. And i must say the level of skill your describing is probably beyond the scope of what the product encryption is meant to counter as far as piracy goes. What i was saying is there is more to g3 than just a mesh. And rebuilding it the same as the original product is different then porting the mesh to another platform.



  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 6:22AM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236494

maxgrafix posted at 11:20PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236492

Razor42 posted at 11:38AM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236420

This all adds up to, don't try as it can't inevitably be stopped? Unfortunately as a business this is a pretty flimsy option and I definitely wouldn't be putting you on the payroll for advice in this area. I'm having trouble discerning your actual point in all of this other than what I just stated, which is doing nothing, is better than something/anything.

You're trolling and making things up again about me suggesting DAZ shouldn't go ahead with DRM. The only thing I've said is that DRM has failed because it's been reverse engineered. And as long as there are those who are willing to crack DRM it will remain unfit for purpose. And I wouldn't employ you either. Why?, because you're the most unconvincing PR guru I've ever come across

I think Black__Days just pretty clearly explained above how DRM can be effective if not %100 ironclad guarantee forever of contents security. No one is talking about locking a file up for ever, I'm not sure anyone even thinks this is currently possible.

Many tech savvy people will disagree. All it takes is a simple internet search to know DRM has failed on many fronts. You know this but still troll this debate with your one sided opinion

Why make laws if people will only break them? How effective is a law if it is broken?

DRM isn't a law!!

The one point you have made abundantly clear is YOU DON"T LIKE DRM.

Wrong! I'm all for it, if it worked that is, and you're trolling again because you've clearly lost the debate. Can I suggest you brush up on your debating skills for future reference

Lol, okay mate :D getting a little personal aren't we?



  maxgrafix    ( ) ( posted at 6:33AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 6:36AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236495

Razor42 posted at 12:22PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236494

Lol, okay mate :D getting a little personal aren't we?

You've been doing that yourself in the form of constant badgering. If you can't push a one sided opinion on people who know you're argument is flawed then I suggest you take a different approach. That's how a debate works.


  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 6:48AM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236496

@parkdalegardener This is why it is all a storm in a teacup as I stated at the start of the thread.

Daz has a sales pitch "Your go to store for content store" it has all the logos Unity, Maya etc. I purchased from and a sketchy memory it's called 3D Morph character pack in Unity just a month or so ago. I also recall it saying 'From the team that manages Daz" or similar which is why I got it. Hardly the words of a company about to rip the rug out from under it's customers which is what is being claimed here. Just about everything I do with the Daz range is not inside Daz itself. In fact until I started working here it was merely a content store and a means to export the content out or make my own characters with the intention to do the same. It is a no brainer really in 6 months time 4.9 is taken up and everybody is still going about their biz all their assets they paid good money for are still in their hot little hands they will wonder what all the fuss is about. I believe Daz would not want to lose its export share as this would be considerable. Some companies have the basic user license and then the export licensing as option. I have put 1492 products through in the last 5-6 months and 1400 would have left Daz already I live in fear of my bank statements. I just can't see Daz wanting to relieve me of such fears anytime soon I think they are a little sharper than that in the Intelligence Dept.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 7:00AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 7:14AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236498

Sigh, ok Max i will take the bait and play for a bit.

There are a few contradictions in your last statement generally within the same paragraph as the statement was made.

You're trolling and making things up again about me suggesting DAZ shouldn't go ahead with DRM. The only thing I've said is that DRM has failed because it's been reverse engineered.

Here you suggest you have no issue with DS encryption for files or DRM if you prefer. Then go on with

And as long as there are those who are willing to crack DRM it will remain unfit for purpose.

Closing the paragraph with a statement that it is unfit for purpose. It seems suggesting it is unfit for purpose and "failed" would be directly opposed to you having no problem with it.

You know this but still troll this debate with your one sided opinion

Wouldn't generally a debate consist of two parties with one sided opinions debating about the merits of there own viewpoint. So stating that someone who is involved in a debate has a one side viewpoint would pretty much describe someone who is involved in a debate.

Why make laws if people will only break them? How effective is a law if it is broken?

DRM isn't a law!!

This one was just plain evasion, im well aware DRM Isnt a law nor was that my point, which im pretty sure your well aware.

**_Wrong! I'm all for it, if it worked that is, and you're trolling again because you've clearly lost the debate.

Again this is a blatantly contradictory statement, i stated you appear to be against drm. You then proclaimed that statement as wrong! your all for it. Then added the contradictory statement "if it worked that is" imferring your not for it because you do not believe it works.

I edited out most of the name calling and overt flame baiting from your statement and just addressed your responses but i needed to leave some in as they formed part of the base statement.



  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 7:29AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 7:40AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236499

Just to add, a debate doesnt work by changing your argument part way through a debate. It works by stating your case or argument adding supporting data. Raising attention to key facts of the argument. Then listening to the opposing argument respectfully. Then countering the opposing argument, again respectfully, with any valid points or drawing attention to flaws in the opposing argument. The opposing side then has an opportunity to rebuke. Then the winner of the debate is generally judged or decided by a 3rd party who give equal consideration to both sides of the debated topic. Who then goes on to decide a winner.

But that truly is a debate for another forum.



  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:05AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 8:07AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236503

On that note, i think i have made my opinions abundantly clear in this "debate" so at this point will step aside and let it progress on its merry way and allow others to make their case.

Happy rendering all with or without DRM.

Someone send me a PM when they decide the winner ;)



  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 8:18AM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236505

Then the winner of the debate is generally judged or decided by a 3rd party - it is a tie

@maxgrafix @Razor42 Keep a level head please. - Challenge the context of the other members ramblings not the individual. Name calling is not acceptable. Members are not expected to agree on everything it would be a rather boring if you did. Just make sure respect is given from all sides. Thank You

Someone once said to me if you use the word "You" in it then it is personal. Still cracks me up everytime it springs to my mind, I use it often as it really makes a mess of someone's argument. Just tryin to think of who that was........................................................................ Wait a minute!

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 9:13AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 9:18AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236511

"@wolf359 Perhaps it is best if we don't go labelling other countries as enemy lands I doubt it would be helpful sending this thread along its merry way. Renderosity is a global website DRM is a global issue. Please keep this in mind"

Sorry perhaps I should Clarify that I mean countries that have proven themsevles to be "enemies" of U.S. Copyright laws Not going to Derail the thread further with specifics but I invite you to ask Microsoft from where they have found the greatest number of Illegal Copies of "office" or Ask Paramount where "R5" Copy or "Cam" Copy of their Latest blockbuster often originates.

back to topic "Apparently that's not a viewpoint you can relate to. DAZ is certainly not as fun of a place to deal with as it was back in 1997."

Perhaps not but as a Character animator I can attest that posers animation tools give me the exact same Experience I "enjoyed" back in 1997 😖

(Thanking Allah for the Existence of Iclone).



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  maxgrafix    ( ) ( posted at 10:42AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 10:54AM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236522

Razor42 posted at 3:40PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236498

Sigh, ok Max i will take the bait and play for a bit.

If you can't stand the heat....

There are a few contradictions in your last statement generally within the same paragraph as the statement was made.

I've made no contradictions. All I've said is I think DRM has failed. While You on the other hand keep implying that I'm in some way suggesting companies shouldn't protect their software, which couldn't be further from the truth

You're trolling and making things up again about me suggesting DAZ shouldn't go ahead with DRM. The only thing I've said is that DRM has failed because it's been reverse engineered.

Here you suggest you have no issue with DS encryption for files or DRM if you prefer. Then go on with

That's correct. But you kept suggesting I was in against it when I never once suggest that I was!

And as long as there are those who are willing to crack DRM it will remain unfit for purpose.

Closing the paragraph with a statement that it is unfit for purpose. It seems suggesting it is unfit for purpose and "failed" would be directly opposed to you having no problem with it.

DRM has been broken, cracked, removed from content. Just accept it and move on

You know this but still troll this debate with your one sided opinion

Wouldn't generally a debate consist of two parties with one sided opinions debating about the merits of there own viewpoint. So stating that someone who is involved in a debate has a one side viewpoint would pretty much describe someone who is involved in a debate.

You refuse to aknowledge that DRM has been broken which it has (And you know it has) and have showed a sleight of hand in suggesting I some how hate DRM. What more is there to say except spin away!

Why make laws if people will only break them? How effective is a law if it is broken?

DRM isn't a law!!

This one was just plain evasion, im well aware DRM Isnt a law nor was that my point, which im pretty sure your well aware.

I'm aware of your ploy to distort the debate

**_Wrong! I'm all for it, if it worked that is, and you're trolling again because you've clearly lost the debate.

Again this is a blatantly contradictory statement, i stated you appear to be against drm. You then proclaimed that statement as wrong! your all for it. Then added the contradictory statement "if it worked that is" imferring your not for it because you do not believe it works.

It was you who made insinuations by implying I was against DRM when I never said I was. Do I really have to repeat myself?

I edited out most of the name calling and overt flame baiting from your statement and just addressed your responses but i needed to leave some in as they formed part of the base statement.

If pointing out that you're a troll has ruffled your feathers I suggest you take a breather. Or find a different career :)


  maxgrafix    ( ) ( posted at 10:50AM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236523

Razor42 posted at 4:47PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236499

Just to add, a debate doesnt work by changing your argument part way through a debate.

I never did. it was you who kept suggesting I was against DRM. Have a nice day!


  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 11:03AM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236525

@wolf359 Understood I think leaders and civilians in all countries including the US would be guilty of not respecting another countries laws and rights, it's is general practice. I was referring to the fact this is a global site and we shouldn't put certain nationalities into one shoe fits all category as some of these nationalities may enjoy the use of what Rendo has to offer and while may or may not agree with everything that goes on in their homeland they should at least not be offended here by our comments.

I am glad you have mentioned Microsoft a lot has been made of the reason to not have the DRM due to the big fail in the music industry's attempt. I am in the music industry so I have refrained from making any comment so far in regard to this as I don't want to appear like I have my own agenda or steer the topic off course. I would have to give myself TOS warning

I will put forward one point only re: DRM fail

Insert a DRM encrypted CD into a drive do I want to Play or Rip the CD? Microsoft = Don't steal our product but we are quite happy to give you the tools to kill another industry. It is only one cog in the wheel but a pretty big one. I know if it wasn't there someone would still find a way, but it would never have been anywhere near as bad as it got. The DRM required all the entertainment and software industries to work together from day one and this simply did not happen. As usual they just looked after their own interest until the tables turned, then started squealing like stuck pigs.

When Win 10 comes back as paid app after their 1 year free is up. I am thinking DRM protected monthly subscription. LOL.... LOL. After all it make sense $120 a year Sub or $129 home edition and you would hang onto it for 2-3 years via the this method. This will be something for us all to look forward to. If this thread is still going we can just tack it on the end to keep it all nice and tidy

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 1:31PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236546

I am trying to word this very carefully. My intention is not to flame bait or stir up another round of speculation. My only intention is to try and see what I am missing.

All the way through this winding discussion I have felt that I am missing a key bit of the equation. Things just don't add up without these details. And I am struggling to balance the equation.

  1. DAZ Connect. Integrated into the system, provides store suggestions, allows items to be installed without using a secondary program. Items downloaded through DAZ Connect will have DRM incorporated because DAZ needs to protect its assets. Okay, no problem. On board so far.

  2. DIM. Will still be supported. No fundamental changes to it. New items will still be available through DIM, just as they have in the past. While also being available through DAZ Connect. DIM items will not be encrypted. This is where my mental train leaves the tracks.

DAZ is obviously investing money into the DRM transition, but while leaving the same items non-DRMed. So then what is being gained for DAZ?

I don't want any wild speculation about subscriptions, etc. etc. I would like to have an official answer. I know that this isn't the official forum and the odds of their being an official answer here is low to zero. However those that can provide an official answer do read these posts. And I am hoping that this could be addressed somewhere.

I think balancing this equation would do a lot to assuage some of the panic. Personally I would accept an answer like "well, we were in here anyway, so we thought we'd do it at the same time."


  malwat    ( ) ( posted at 1:56PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236550

Any system that requires us to open our computers to it has to be viewed with suspicion, if only because our security is only as good as the security of that system. Hacking occurs, and suddenly we find that we are more vulnerable. I am constantly undergoing software amendments and updates on my smartphone, often whether I want them or not. Typically, I get adverts I don't want. But let us consider the simple fact that a copy of most well-known books is not going to materially change between first publication and re-publication perhaps decades or even centuries afterwards. If I choose to acquire the version in which modern idiom replaces (say) Jane Austen's original form, it is down to me, but if I have DRM right, that no longer applies - however the owner of the system decides, the change occurs. The debate above has been in places puerile, but the issues remain constant. If any company imposes a method of 'protecting' 'its' material which ensures that they can control access to that material (even if they do not actually do so at first) is acting uncompetitively and not in the best interests of users. To use the analogy already suggested, laws are meant to be broken, and more importantly laws that do not serve the people should be broken. In GB we tend to toe the line, but in France they simply ignore unreasonable or draconian rules. Just because something is possible is no reason whyit should be done. I just hope that the management at Daz has the sense to quietly drop this idea,and return to the friendly and generally enjoyable status quo.

Malwat

Getting younger by the day; getting older by the minute....


  FlagonsWorkshop    ( ) ( posted at 2:46PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236558

JasonGalterio posted at 2:40PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236546

I am trying to word this very carefully. My intention is not to flame bait or stir up another round of speculation. My only intention is to try and see what I am missing.

All the way through this winding discussion I have felt that I am missing a key bit of the equation. Things just don't add up without these details. And I am struggling to balance the equation.

  1. DAZ Connect. Integrated into the system, provides store suggestions, allows items to be installed without using a secondary program. Items downloaded through DAZ Connect will have DRM incorporated because DAZ needs to protect its assets. Okay, no problem. On board so far.

  2. DIM. Will still be supported. No fundamental changes to it. New items will still be available through DIM, just as they have in the past. While also being available through DAZ Connect. DIM items will not be encrypted. This is where my mental train leaves the tracks.

DAZ is obviously investing money into the DRM transition, but while leaving the same items non-DRMed. So then what is being gained for DAZ?

I don't want any wild speculation about subscriptions, etc. etc. I would like to have an official answer. I know that this isn't the official forum and the odds of their being an official answer here is low to zero. However those that can provide an official answer do read these posts. And I am hoping that this could be addressed somewhere.

I think balancing this equation would do a lot to assuage some of the panic. Personally I would accept an answer like "well, we were in here anyway, so we thought we'd do it at the same time."

I think the idea somewhere along the line is to put out some content in DRM form only. Clearly it completely defeats the purpose to put out both a DRM and non-DRM version of the same product. This thing is just Beta at this point though, so it's all a lot of speculation. Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. DIM will have to be supported for quite a while, to get rid of entirely they need to rewrite at least Bryce and Carrarra and possibly Hexagon. Then of course they sell items that are not used in the DAZ program itself.

I really think they have better options then putting DRM on the content itself if they want to protect content. Then again I think that putting DRM on entertainment items has never been shown to increase sales, and I am still waiting for a counter argument on that.


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 5:29PM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 5:35PM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236584

"If pointing out that you're a troll has ruffled your feathers I suggest you take a breather. Or find a different career :)"

Trolls don't have feathers!

.... .... At least that i know of, but i will bow down here to your experience in that particular area. :)



  Morpheon    ( ) ( posted at 8:18PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236601

parkdalegardener posted at 5:15PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236490

I already have G1 and G2 running as Poser native. No DS needed. Took 10 minutes. I have props from DAZ that were in Studio formats when purchased. They are working in Lightwave, Poser, and Vue. Took less than 5 minutes. I have G3 running in Lightwave with a Lightwave rig. That too almost 45 minutes. It has a facial rig and uses the same skinning method as Studio.

And at some point in the next couple of weeks, I would love to talk to you about how you accomplished that. Since I'm starting out as a Poser noob, I haven't used DSON at all, and in looking through some threads about it, I keep coming up on references that it isn't even necessary. I would love to be able to expand my options by continuing to use Genesis and Genesis 2 in Poser and possibly Blender.


  Morpheon    ( ) ( posted at 8:32PM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 8:37PM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236602

JasonGalterio posted at 5:23PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236546

DAZ is obviously investing money into the DRM transition, but while leaving the same items non-DRMed. So then what is being gained for DAZ?

Items are only remaining unencrypted for the immediate future, and anything downloaded via DIM and ZIPs are unencrypted. DAZ promises (for whatever THAT'S worth) that these methods will be available for at least a few years yet, but at some point, new content will become DAZ Connect-downloadable only (my guess is that Michael 7 kicks it all off). I would look for DAZ to kill the ZIPs and DIM entirely as soon as possible after that, leaving only DAZ Connect (with its content-encrypting ways) as the only means to download content from the DAZ store. It's already been stated openly in the DAZ forums that DAZ Connect encrypts key files of everything that passes through it, so even older pre-DRM content (V4 and M4, for example) will be encrypted if downloaded through it. To encrypt some items but not others would be for DAZ to tell one content creator that their work is worthy of whatever protection their DRM can provide, but that another content creator's work is not, and I can see a revolt happening if they were to do that.


  semiramis    ( ) ( posted at 9:01PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236605

JasonGalterio posted at 9:47PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236546

I am trying to word this very carefully. My intention is not to flame bait or stir up another round of speculation. My only intention is to try and see what I am missing.

All the way through this winding discussion I have felt that I am missing a key bit of the equation. Things just don't add up without these details. And I am struggling to balance the equation.

  1. DAZ Connect. Integrated into the system, provides store suggestions, allows items to be installed without using a secondary program. Items downloaded through DAZ Connect will have DRM incorporated because DAZ needs to protect its assets. Okay, no problem. On board so far.

  2. DIM. Will still be supported. No fundamental changes to it. New items will still be available through DIM, just as they have in the past. While also being available through DAZ Connect. DIM items will not be encrypted. This is where my mental train leaves the tracks.

DAZ is obviously investing money into the DRM transition, but while leaving the same items non-DRMed. So then what is being gained for DAZ?

I don't want any wild speculation about subscriptions, etc. etc. I would like to have an official answer. I know that this isn't the official forum and the odds of their being an official answer here is low to zero. However those that can provide an official answer do read these posts. And I am hoping that this could be addressed somewhere.

I think balancing this equation would do a lot to assuage some of the panic. Personally I would accept an answer like "well, we were in here anyway, so we thought we'd do it at the same time."

Old and Current Items: In DAZ Connect and DIM at same time, encrypted and not-encrypted respectively. There is not point to set old things, already shared in the web, in only DAZ Connect state.

New Future Items: Only DAZ Connect, only encrypted.

Date for new future items only encrypted: indeterminated.


  Khory_D    ( ) ( posted at 9:16PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

  ssgbryan    ( ) ( posted at 9:30PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236612

Morpheon posted at 8:23PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236601

parkdalegardener posted at 5:15PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236490

I already have G1 and G2 running as Poser native. No DS needed. Took 10 minutes. I have props from DAZ that were in Studio formats when purchased. They are working in Lightwave, Poser, and Vue. Took less than 5 minutes. I have G3 running in Lightwave with a Lightwave rig. That too almost 45 minutes. It has a facial rig and uses the same skinning method as Studio.

And at some point in the next couple of weeks, I would love to talk to you about how you accomplished that. Since I'm starting out as a Poser noob, I haven't used DSON at all, and in looking through some threads about it, I keep coming up on references that it isn't even necessary. I would love to be able to expand my options by continuing to use Genesis and Genesis 2 in Poser and possibly Blender.

You start with File - Export...... No need for DSON - it is always going to be the weak link because it runs through python.

I am working on a tutorial for gettting your DS content working in Poser as Poser native files. I have portion on figures done, and now I am working my way through getting clothing working. Fun part begins with turning things like the Edwardian dress into a conforming/dynamic hybrid.

I was hoping to be done by now, but real life has been giving me a hard time lately.



  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 10:33PM Mon, 02 November 2015 · edited on 10:47PM Mon, 02 November 2015 · @4236618

ssgbryan posted at 3:22PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236612

Morpheon posted at 8:23PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236601

parkdalegardener posted at 5:15PM Mon, 02 November 2015 - #4236490

I already have G1 and G2 running as Poser native. No DS needed. Took 10 minutes. I have props from DAZ that were in Studio formats when purchased. They are working in Lightwave, Poser, and Vue. Took less than 5 minutes. I have G3 running in Lightwave with a Lightwave rig. That too almost 45 minutes. It has a facial rig and uses the same skinning method as Studio.

And at some point in the next couple of weeks, I would love to talk to you about how you accomplished that. Since I'm starting out as a Poser noob, I haven't used DSON at all, and in looking through some threads about it, I keep coming up on references that it isn't even necessary. I would love to be able to expand my options by continuing to use Genesis and Genesis 2 in Poser and possibly Blender.

You start with File - Export...... No need for DSON - it is always going to be the weak link because it runs through python.

I am working on a tutorial for gettting your DS content working in Poser as Poser native files. I have portion on figures done, and now I am working my way through getting clothing working. Fun part begins with turning things like the Edwardian dress into a conforming/dynamic hybrid.

I was hoping to be done by now, but real life has been giving me a hard time lately.

While we're OT, just to ask the question, all of these Ports of Genesis (1,2 or 3) figures do feature all of the same functionality as Genesis does in Daz Studio with the same compatibility with all supporting products such as hair poses morphs etc?

Or are they closer to a nerfed/Hacked version using some of the foundations of the Genesis figures like the mesh and textures for example. In a effect a Genestein or Frankenesis figure? Because for example I would say the base Mesh is about 10% of what makes Genesis 3, Genesis 3 in Daz Studio.

I am asking because it may be great to have a figure in an alternate program, but where do all of the resources for it then come from then? It would seem like a full time job if everything for the new figure needs to be also hacked modified to work with the figure. And I do know to some there hobby is more based on this form of art and truly its amazing sometimes what they discover or cobble together to make work where it shouldn't. But for many they will basically just end up with a less functional figure with little supporting content. Making it not truly an alternative option. But more a tinkerers passion project.

So for example If I port Genesis to Poser as a native figure. And I really want to make Genesis into the Troll or Gorilla figure available at Daz3D for Genesis can I just buy this content and use it? Or do I need to use a hack type process and it may or may not work as expected depending on certain factors? Genesis 3 in Lightwave is awesome, what are my options for pants for the figure once there? It may help those considering this as an alternative to know what they're in for if they decide to pursue this option to maintain content viability.



  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 11:43PM Mon, 02 November 2015  · @4236622

@Razor42 You are correct there is some exceptions but the procedure is an ugly frankenstein affair. I export characters out of Daz for use in animation. I am stuck with the Genesis, Genesis 2 M&F and all of their derivatives. Pre Gen is out and Genesis 3 at this point is also a possibility and I have sent some versions out but the manual work required make this concept somewhat ordinary for the net result. I managed Laura but by time I finished it was a Genesis 2 Laura lookalike and sitting back looking at her it was apparent that the time spent was out of curiosity over any real desire to have Laura appear in a short film or music clip. Aiko 3 I would love to use Victoria 4 is another character I would really like to sort and to date I have managed to export and everything looks great some adjustments later she looks identical to the V4 in Daz. I have managed to overcome some issues. However as stunning as she is once gifted with a motion file bvh etc the sheer beauty soon becomes a thing of the past. There is nothing sexy about V4 when her breasts have passed through her body and trail a foot behind her. Good for one horror flick only I guess. The breastback of notre dame is a good starting point. Poser characters I can take them out no probs but I have to work on the motions using keyframe save I am currently creating a couple of simple walks etc in a curve editor to save the motion files and see how it goes in the target application I would only consider the couple of anime characters . Again with so much on the market these characters are so yesterday *(All platforms not a Poser dig) The earlier stuff can sure have a high polycount vs quality that is not really worth the trouble for animation, My Genesis clothed usually exceeds anything of similar setup on a G2 by 200'000. This is also why I am not too worried about the DRM the gaming industry is huge Daz are hardly going to be taking themselves out of the market. If I pay for the right to use I expect that right to be honored. I have other character builders that do a great job so I don't have to get down on my knees and beg for mercy either. Ability to do this stops the money stops and this would not be out of spite just no further use. I purchased Daz's 3D Morph characters packs in Unity a month or so ago so I am sure they have their interests well and truly in letting people carry on as normal.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  ssgbryan    ( ) ( posted at 10:25AM Tue, 03 November 2015  · @4236680

Razor42 posted at 7:18AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236618

While we're OT, just to ask the question, all of these Ports of Genesis (1,2 or 3) figures do feature all of the same functionality as Genesis does in Daz Studio with the same compatibility with all supporting products such as hair poses morphs etc?

Or are they closer to a nerfed/Hacked version using some of the foundations of the Genesis figures like the mesh and textures for example. In a effect a Genestein or Frankenesis figure? Because for example I would say the base Mesh is about 10% of what makes Genesis 3, Genesis 3 in Daz Studio.

I am asking because it may be great to have a figure in an alternate program, but where do all of the resources for it then come from then? It would seem like a full time job if everything for the new figure needs to be also hacked modified to work with the figure. And I do know to some there hobby is more based on this form of art and truly its amazing sometimes what they discover or cobble together to make work where it shouldn't. But for many they will basically just end up with a less functional figure with little supporting content. Making it not truly an alternative option. But more a tinkerers passion project.

So for example If I port Genesis to Poser as a native figure. And I really want to make Genesis into the Troll or Gorilla figure available at Daz3D for Genesis can I just buy this content and use it? Or do I need to use a hack type process and it may or may not work as expected depending on certain factors? Genesis 3 in Lightwave is awesome, what are my options for pants for the figure once there? It may help those considering this as an alternative to know what they're in for if they decide to pursue this option to maintain content viability.

Yep. It isn't a "hack". I can't speak to LPR001's issues with animation, I don't animate - I use Poser for illustrating graphic novels and the genesis 1 & 2 figures work just fine.

When I started my research, my goal was to get Dariofish's Aliens working in Poser for my Star Trek Fan-Fic, along with Luthbel's Cthulhu for my horror-fic. All the morph dials work in Poser. I haven't fooled around with the HD nonsense, but I other folks have - from what I remember, one had to push the subdivision in Poser up to 3 to see the difference. I have a couple of HD characters and they seem to run fine at sub-d 1. (Which is where you will take your genesis figures in Poser.)

Genesis 3 isn't an option at this point (so you won't have access to the fat chick) due to how the face is rigged. (Shrdavid built a G3 Sydney for Poser 8 that used facial rigging, but the Poser team went in another direction - the ability to add support for facial bones is there, but I don't know if a cost-benefit analysis shows it to be worthwhile.)

All genesis brings to the table is animatable joint centers (Which Poser has supported since at least Poser 5 that I am personally aware of - See Apollo Maximus from a decade ago.) and weight mapping along 3 axis, as opposed to Poser, which has weight mapping along 1 axis. That is the only difference.

If one goes this route, most of your time would be spent in restructuring what passes for a runtime in DS (and putting PCFs where they actually belong, as opposed to stuffing every conceivable file type under the Pose subfolder - or better yet, converting them to Poser-native files, to also eliminate the need for DSON - saving it out is a 2 second operation. There is 1 vendor that actually makes native Poser companion files, as opposed to the fake ones most DS vendors make). You have to do some planning ahead of time, due to the way DS generates a figure (example - many female characters come with a base gens - you would need to do some simple file rearranging to keep them from showing up on Skyler, for instance.) Most folks do that since there is no rhyme or reason to subfolder organization in DS anyway.

Whether exporting from DS via File - Export, or using DSON - a figure is built with every single morph the program can "see". This can make a figure quite RAM intensive. Again, planning ahead in runtime structure makes these problems go away.

But we should move back on topic.

One of the issues that hasn't been addressed vis-a-vis staying on DS 4.8 forever is if a future change to the underlying operating system that breaks DS 4.8. This has already happened more than once in the OSX world (10-4 to 10.5) - that's is why Hexagon didn't work under OSX for 4 years. How many of you are willing to chance that? DAZ depreciates earlier versions as each new version is released.



  chaecuna    ( ) ( posted at 11:21AM Tue, 03 November 2015  · @4236689

ssgbryan posted at 6:20PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236680

One of the issues that hasn't been addressed vis-a-vis staying on DS 4.8 forever is if a future change to the underlying operating system that breaks DS 4.8. This has already happened more than once in the OSX world (10-4 to 10.5) - that's is why Hexagon didn't work under OSX for 4 years. How many of you are willing to chance that? DAZ depreciates earlier versions as each new version is released.

Maybe, bit by bit, Studio might not be the only game in town...

di.jpg


  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 11:40AM Tue, 03 November 2015 · edited on 11:45AM Tue, 03 November 2015 · @4236691

ssgbryan posted at 12:34PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236680

One of the issues that hasn't been addressed vis-a-vis staying on DS 4.8 forever is if a future change to the underlying operating system that breaks DS 4.8. This has already happened more than once in the OSX world (10-4 to 10.5) - that's is why Hexagon didn't work under OSX for 4 years. How many of you are willing to chance that? DAZ depreciates earlier versions as each new version is released.

If you're referring when Apple dropped Rosetta support, then your argument is very misleading as every piece of software broke that relied on it, requiring you to upgrade to programs that used the intel architecture exclusively. Very few of those upgrades were free and some programs just died in the transition. There is a development cost to updating programs, if resources aren't there at the time to do the work, the updating won't happen until those resources are freed... because that's how businesses work. The thing about OS upgrades, particularly on a Mac is that you aren't guaranteed a free upgrade if you decide to switch to a new OS. Apple even killed some of their own programs with no replacement when you moved to a different OS, so I'm not sure why you would single out DAZ for something Apple (and Microsoft) does too when you update. Keep in mind also when people upgraded to IE11, it killed their versions of Poser until SM made a patch for the newer versions, but some versions got depreciated as a result.


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 11:40AM Tue, 03 November 2015  · @4236692

@LPR001 have you tried the MDD/Obj export options??

I am using this methodology to get genesis 1 ,2 figures animated in maxon c4d .

It's quite a smooth pipeline.



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  FlagonsWorkshop    ( ) ( posted at 12:04PM Tue, 03 November 2015  · @4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.


  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 1:48PM Tue, 03 November 2015 · edited on 1:50PM Tue, 03 November 2015 · @4236723

diogenese19348 posted at 1:38PM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236699

Khory_D posted at 11:53AM Tue, 03 November 2015 - #4236609

_Since what DAZ is really doing is protecting the PA's, I would have to guess that some PA's will opt for DRM and some will not. _

I don't see that as a viable option. QA has more than enough to do for us as is without having to check some list about final packaging and placement for download of the product. It would also be very confusing for customers.

Then DAZ is going to lose some PA's since some have expressed the opinion on the Message boards that they do not want their product encrypted. Which is what is the problem with the way DAZ is going about it, some people just will not tolerate encrypted content on general principle. So the question is, will the customers they lose through encryption be offset by incoming new customers from the warez sites? Survey says... never happened in the past for entertainment software. That's why companies moved away from it. It's not that DRM can't work, it's just that it never generates increased sales. Or does anybody have something that shows that isn't true?

The only times I know of that DRM has increased sales is if the software is used by businesses that can be sued if caught using unlicensed versions.

You can't increase sales by inconveniencing your customers.

It's not about increasing sales, DRM isn't a incentive to buy, it is for those that want to use it that did not pay for it or do not abide by the licensing agreement of the product. So it may not get people to buy it that would not buy it anyway, but it does attempt to protect more of the casual piracy that goes on and sends a message that this type of sharing isn't condoned where not protecting it in light of piracy sends a totally opposite message.

In the past, there was less of a need for certain things to be protected because of the ecosystem where sites, customers and the producer kept the whole thing honest or had a recourse to remove content that was illegal. If a file was illegally hosted, all the copyright user had to do was to make a request to take it down and the site abided by that, which in term kept the consumer ease of use high. However the system is broken to the point that the copyright holder has no choice but to add more protection to the product because the sites aren't honoring the take down notices, which then inconveniences the consumer.


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