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DAZ|Studio F.A.Q (Updated: 2019 Feb 01 1:12 pm)


 Subject: Daz Studio 4.9 Big Changes Incoming!!

ghosty12 opened this issue on Oct 28, 2015 · 502 posts

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  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 12:14AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 12:24AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236103

JasonGalterio posted at 4:11PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236099

Last comment before I log off...

I did some quick research earlier this evening. I found that I spent just over $10k USD at DAZ since June of 2013. I have no idea if that is a lot or nothing compared to the average DAZ customer, but to me that is a lot of money. Particularly for a hobby. It's almost half the price of a decent car.

I don't even want to think about what my total spent is. I have 967 orders on record with DAZ. I only went back 400 of them as part of this exercise.

Considering that I think I am being really calm concerning this out of the blue change.

All I can say is that people are listening to your concerns and that there is a middle ground between asset protection and freedom of accessibility and usage for customers. Lets hope DAZ3D can nail it and your concerns are deemed unwarranted in the future. But as you said only the future will reveal all.



  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 12:16AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236105

Keep a level head Guys and Girls too much speculation and that is all it is. Please make sure respect is shown here to each other but you are all going very well considering a few raw nerves and concerns at the moment. I know us humans don't like to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

@JasonGalterio it is not to happen like this. Daz is the last company on my system to go DRM, Please do not spend your weekend believing your 10K of products are under any threat. A company can't sell you products for close to 3 years under set terms then come knocking on your door to take it back because of a policy change. If you are worried do a backup of your entire library on an external drive. This is not needed but you might feel more confident your stuff is going nowhere then. Razor42 has made a very valid point. When you log into 4.9 there is the clearly visible "Work Offline" option. Now that would not be there if half your fears were going to come into play.

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Khory_D    ( ) ( posted at 12:20AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236106

_Until the deal is further altered.

If DAZ manages to impose this step, they can (and will) go further down the software-as-service road. The "logical" next step is everything-is-"free" but then you have to pay a small amount whenever you try to render or export a scene. It is not far fetched, it is like what happens in pay-per-view video services where you have to pay whenever you watch a movie, regardless of whether you have already watched in the past (contrast with buying a DVD and then being able to watch the movie without further costs, as many times as you like)._

That is totally baseless and pretty clearly conjectured with out any knowledge of how a brokerage functions.

_Prices... The prices use to be a lot higher. Then dropped for a while. They stabilized for a few years. Then started an increase trend last year. For example, in 2004 when I purchased the Millennium Dragon it was $99 for just the model, texture and poses. V3 with just the head and body morphs was $79.

The prices went down. Then the ship started to loose direction. Lots of different things were thrown at the wall to see what would work. For a while, these were good. Innovations. Investments that yielded new products. That's how we got DAZ Studio. Back then there was no such beast. It came about because of a spat with whoever happened to be the owner of Poser at that time.

Then things started to get bad. Barn burner sales. Overnight changes in direction. Lack of communication. At three points it got so bad that I stepped away for years at a time.

Then it stabilized for a while. Things seemed to be improving. Then the ship lost direction again last year. Things thrown at the wall. 3D printing. Gaming licenses. etc. etc. None of them really seeming to work out.

Here's a secret for you... When DS went free; they were giving out refunds. You had to call them directly and plead your case. This happened repeatedly. DS4. The Auto Fit tool. Carrara Pro. The Supersuit bundle. etc. etc.

Yes, some people would have had a bad reaction no matter what. But if the things in the past hadn't happened, then the number of people having a bad reaction right now would probably be a lot less._

Not a spat.. a very real fear that the program would be turned into abandon ware as it was passed from hand to hand.

Actually... when Daz started to have an active and involved marketing team things started to improve. Daz is much stronger and the PA's much more financially secure now than in the past. 3D printing was always expected to be a down the road thing but it would have served no purpose to not get in some testing and so forth on it. Gaming licenses may not have had the impact you were looking for but it helped them work out the direction to go with Morph3d.

Charging for Studio was one of the few miss steps they have made and that was before most of the current Admin staff was in the positions they are. Thankfully they course corrected and once again is a very successful marketing tool. It can't have been too big a hit since they have been able to afford to do some pretty major expansions since then. I can think of a few people who have carried on like they were dumped by a lover after the return to free but most people are not quite so prone to a highly personal grudge long term like that.

www.Calida3d.com
Daz studio and Poser content creators

  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 12:25AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236107

Razor42 posted at 1:15AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236101

I think perspective and as you have described rationality are pretty key assets for this situation. Unfortunately in a lot of cases both are in short supply.

The level of DRM we're talking about here is no more intrusive than itunes or many, many other online content providers. To the average user it will be pretty much be unnoticeable, to the average pirate the first hurdle ever put in place to attempt to protect this kind of product. No one thinks this is a silver bullet for piracy, but to do nothing is to just let even the most novice of individual free to exploit this content, however they please with NO barriers in doing so. To hackers and crackers potentially a challenge for their ego.

Unfortunately perception to the customer is any protection on top of No protection is a big jump even if it has minimal impact and appears rather threatening. To basically say pirates are too good we can never win. So let's not bother may work for multi billion dollar industries but for niche markets it could be the difference between survival and going under if not mitigated adequately in the long term.

DAZ3D has more to lose from piracy then say a store like Renderosity as DAZ3D it has a lot more financially invested in the development and the future of the industry. Renderosity can mitigate the loss as they really have no actual investment in content, programs or future developments of the industry.

Wait and see is the nature of most business these day when trying something new, but those that fail to move forward are inevitably falling behind. Risk and innovation go hand in hand. And other cliches... Personally whatever the long term outcome is, I'm glad that DAZ3D are attempting to make a difference into what content creators & creatives globally see as one of the primary threats to their livelihoods. To do otherwise would display more a lack of care and consideration of their contributors to just accept this as collateral loss.

As far as piss poor handling, I guess that's a matter of personal opinion, but remember this is a beta phase for DS not an official version release.

I'm not wild about the whole DRM thing however, I'm less wild about seeing mine and other vendor's products being dropped on warez sites by users wanting to increase their download ratios, and when I send the DMCA notices to those sites they're now ignored. Unfortunately it's at a point where there needs to be some type of middle ground because not doing anything is simply not an option.

It would be like you making an image that you're proud of, someone steals it and drops it on a paid gallery that you receive no compensation or credit for. Do you try to keep that from happening or you just shrug and say "Those are the breaks." ?

Is it a perfect solution? Not in the least, but ignoring the issue and doing nothing to slow it down isn't an option either.


  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 6:14AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236128

You have all pretty much said the same thing regarding the DRM... It's something, but it's not really going to work.

It's a mathematical equation. On one side is the customer. On the other side is the pirate. The more effective the DRM is at stopping the pirate, the more inconvenient it is for the customer. This equation will remain the same until there is some sort of shift in the fundamental nature of DRM.

It wasn't that long ago that the most effective DRM / website security was a Secure Key issued to every customer. Those keychain devices with the rotating numbers... But then some hacker was able to work out the algorithm the key chains were using. And everything went into disarray.

My point is two fold. No protection is bullet proof. And there are better steps to use resources on.

And some of my pictures have been used just like described. And I did just shrug and go oh well. I do this as a hobby. I don't expect to make money from it. I never have. I put them out there and I move on. There is absolutely nothing I can do to stop people who have no regard for others efforts. Just like my DRM equation above anything I do to stop unauthorized use (watermarks, reduced resolutions, etc.) has a negative impact on the legitimate viewers.

I have also had people to ask me to remove watermarks from pictures they want to use but don't want to pay for. I have refused and attempted to educate those people about what they were doing. Did they get it? No, because it is impossible for them to grasp a concept so simple unless it impacts them directly.

Again, as I have stated repeatedly, I am relatively calm right now. I am not worrying about it. I am waiting to see what happens before I crystalize my position.

Do I think my worst case scenarios will happen? No. I say them in the hopes that they don't happen. I hope that someone will see those thoughts and realize the idiocy of going down that path.

However I do have a personal motto that helps me deal with similar situations: "Never discount the impact of stupidity."

Even the smartest person can make stupid decisions. Even the stupidest person can somehow end up in a position where they are making important decisions. The stupidest idea can be made to look ground breaking. And the most ground breaking idea can be made to look stupid.

My fear is that somewhere up the DAZ leadership change there is that executive that exists in every company. The one that thinks he knows everything and is going to fix every ill of the company. The one that has no idea what the company sells or who the customers are. The executive that worked at the widget factory down the block and is going to deal with this company just the same way.He is going to make profit for DAZ come hell or high water. People who disagree with his (or her) plans get steamrolled. Logic is thrown out the window. The self-destruction begins as the quality and the customer base erodes. Etc etc.

I've been down that path with DAZ before. Some of you even allude to points in the past where that was going on. All I am saying is that I hope this isn't another one of those stages.


  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 6:42AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236131

JasonGalterio posted at 7:39AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236128

You have all pretty much said the same thing regarding the DRM... It's something, but it's not really going to work.

It's a mathematical equation. On one side is the customer. On the other side is the pirate. The more effective the DRM is at stopping the pirate, the more inconvenient it is for the customer. This equation will remain the same until there is some sort of shift in the fundamental nature of DRM.

It wasn't that long ago that the most effective DRM / website security was a Secure Key issued to every customer. Those keychain devices with the rotating numbers... But then some hacker was able to work out the algorithm the key chains were using. And everything went into disarray.

My point is two fold. No protection is bullet proof. And there are better steps to use resources on.

And some of my pictures have been used just like described. And I did just shrug and go oh well. I do this as a hobby. I don't expect to make money from it. I never have. I put them out there and I move on. There is absolutely nothing I can do to stop people who have no regard for others efforts. Just like my DRM equation above anything I do to stop unauthorized use (watermarks, reduced resolutions, etc.) has a negative impact on the legitimate viewers.

I have also had people to ask me to remove watermarks from pictures they want to use but don't want to pay for. I have refused and attempted to educate those people about what they were doing. Did they get it? No, because it is impossible for them to grasp a concept so simple unless it impacts them directly.

Again, as I have stated repeatedly, I am relatively calm right now. I am not worrying about it. I am waiting to see what happens before I crystalize my position.

Do I think my worst case scenarios will happen? No. I say them in the hopes that they don't happen. I hope that someone will see those thoughts and realize the idiocy of going down that path.

However I do have a personal motto that helps me deal with similar situations: "Never discount the impact of stupidity."

Even the smartest person can make stupid decisions. Even the stupidest person can somehow end up in a position where they are making important decisions. The stupidest idea can be made to look ground breaking. And the most ground breaking idea can be made to look stupid.

My fear is that somewhere up the DAZ leadership change there is that executive that exists in every company. The one that thinks he knows everything and is going to fix every ill of the company. The one that has no idea what the company sells or who the customers are. The executive that worked at the widget factory down the block and is going to deal with this company just the same way.He is going to make profit for DAZ come hell or high water. People who disagree with his (or her) plans get steamrolled. Logic is thrown out the window. The self-destruction begins as the quality and the customer base erodes. Etc etc.

I've been down that path with DAZ before. Some of you even allude to points in the past where that was going on. All I am saying is that I hope this isn't another one of those stages.

We haven't said it wasn't going to work. What we have said is what is happening now doesn't work, and doing nothing doesn't work. So there needs to be some middle ground so it's not so easy for someone to just drop it on a site without any repercussion.


  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 7:19AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236140

You want to protect your work? Then don't sell it. That is the only DRM that works.

You want to make money from your work? Then someone else is going to want to take that money from you.

You want to sell your work? Then someone else is going to want it for free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Saying doing nothing is not an answer is rubbish and has been proven wrong: In January 2007, EMI stopped publishing audio CDs with DRM, stating that "the costs of DRM do not measure up to the results." Following EMI, Sony BMG was the last publisher to abolish DRM completely, and audio CDs containing DRM are no longer released by the four largest commercial record label companies.

Saying DRM will protect anything is also rubbish: As widely repeated, Blu Ray DRM was supposed to provide ten years of protection. It was broken in less than a few months.

Saying that users won't be prevented from using their legitimate purchases is rubbish: Many DRM systems require authentication with an online server. Whenever the server goes down, or a region or country experiences an Internet outage, it effectively locks out people from registering or using the material. This is especially true for a product that requires a persistent online authentication, where, for example, a successful DDoS attack on the server would essentially make all copies of the material unusable.

I am not going to bother copying any other text, but there is all section of that article dedicated to why DRM actually results in the inverse of what is being attempted.

I will believe that this will work when you tell me that DAZ has invested more money into this scheme than those who have tried and failed already. The truth of the matter is most companies are moving away from DRM. The ones that are still using it (Steam for example) have their hiccups but are significantly bigger than DAZ with more resources to reassure customers.

"So there needs to be some middle ground so it's not so easy for someone to just drop it on a site without any repercussion."

Bingo. And so far, that isn't what this is. "Minimal protection" means its still going to be pretty easy to break. There is still no repercussions as you, yourself, stated that your efforts to remove items with DCMA complaints have failed.

So now try to look at it from the point of a customer:

DAZ invests resources in instituting DRM. DAZ says DRM will protect their assets (proven not to be true). Customer then mentally does the math. Investment occurred, it's not buying what the seller says, so what is the seller not saying? What is the investment actually meant to purchase? Then the speculation feeds on itself.


  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 7:37AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236142

Here's a thought to consider....

Want to protect your assets?

For the first six months that new products are released, lock them down hard. Issue a dongle that proves identity. Or a secure keychain that requires a log on. Or an secure key app that provides a cycling code. Or make users renew their decrypt key every two or three days. Or keep some of the model code on a server and make the user refresh that code every two or three days.

No minimal security. Lock it down just as tight as possible.

Then, after six months, unlock it and leave it decrypted.

Forget the old products that have already been released. They are already out there. Those cows are out of the barn. Trying to corral them back in is a waste of resources.

People don't want to buy DRM content? Wait six months. People are worried that Godzilla will nuke Salt Lake City? You only loose access to items bought in the last six months instead of forever.

Just don't try to sell me a 1976 Nova and claim that it is as safe and reliable as a 2015 Toyota.


  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 7:46AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236143

JasonGalterio posted at 8:31AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236140

You want to protect your work? Then don't sell it. That is the only DRM that works.

You want to make money from your work? Then someone else is going to want to take that money from you.

You want to sell your work? Then someone else is going to want it for free.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

Saying doing nothing is not an answer is rubbish and has been proven wrong: In January 2007, EMI stopped publishing audio CDs with DRM, stating that "the costs of DRM do not measure up to the results." Following EMI, Sony BMG was the last publisher to abolish DRM completely, and audio CDs containing DRM are no longer released by the four largest commercial record label companies.

Saying DRM will protect anything is also rubbish: As widely repeated, Blu Ray DRM was supposed to provide ten years of protection. It was broken in less than a few months.

Saying that users won't be prevented from using their legitimate purchases is rubbish: Many DRM systems require authentication with an online server. Whenever the server goes down, or a region or country experiences an Internet outage, it effectively locks out people from registering or using the material. This is especially true for a product that requires a persistent online authentication, where, for example, a successful DDoS attack on the server would essentially make all copies of the material unusable.

I am not going to bother copying any other text, but there is all section of that article dedicated to why DRM actually results in the inverse of what is being attempted.

I will believe that this will work when you tell me that DAZ has invested more money into this scheme than those who have tried and failed already. The truth of the matter is most companies are moving away from DRM. The ones that are still using it (Steam for example) have their hiccups but are significantly bigger than DAZ with more resources to reassure customers.

"So there needs to be some middle ground so it's not so easy for someone to just drop it on a site without any repercussion."

Bingo. And so far, that isn't what this is. "Minimal protection" means its still going to be pretty easy to break. There is still no repercussions as you, yourself, stated that your efforts to remove items with DCMA complaints have failed.

So now try to look at it from the point of a customer:

DAZ invests resources in instituting DRM. DAZ says DRM will protect their assets (proven not to be true). Customer then mentally does the math. Investment occurred, it's not buying what the seller says, so what is the seller not saying? What is the investment actually meant to purchase? Then the speculation feeds on itself.

Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that. Things will continue to be sold, and there will need to be ways to protect assets regardless of what some people feel. So if you don't want to buy protected assets and programs you are free to make your own. But considering every software company has some type of protection in place, your argument really doesn't make sense.

And as I said before, I am also a customer that has more assets than most people people complaining. So I do understand from both sides, since I do both: assets need to be easy to use, but also some type of protection needs to be in place to reduce theft, hence the middle ground. I keep my software licenses current for the work I do, and I also buy assets for my work, and I also see the impact of them having absolutely no protection so people can just upload them and share them with no regard for license. Also it's also increasingly hard to remove copyrighted works when you submit a claim, they get ignored by many sites now. Unfortunately this isn't something that no one else in digital world does, and this is where it's heading. The goal is to make it where transparent to the user where you are doing the same things legally that you've been doing with your content. Since no one has any encrypted content yet, it's pointless to speculate that it's some evil draconian scheme like some of the other products some have bought that really gave DRM a bad name.


  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 8:18AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 8:19AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236146

Male_M3dia will you please stop implying that I am claiming that there is some sort of secret DAZ illuminati plan going on here? You are flame baiting and I am not going to bite. In fact, I am going to stop addressing you.

To elaborate on my previous thought, in the hope that someone from DAZ might read it...

I am not anti-DRM. I am anti-pointless DRM. Which is what I am reading into statements like "minimal security."

My suggestion is this....

Every customer gets two keys. The first key is a generic this is customer "A" sort of key. Has to be renewed every thirty days, which is pretty typical for most DRM items. The second key is a more specific key, possibly one for each product. This key has to be renewed every two or three days.

I buy a new product on it's release day. The product is encoded to my customer key and I receive a specific product key for it. When I add the product to a scene, the keys are checked. If my keys are invalid, the product doesn't de-crypt. If my keys are out of date, either one of them, then the product adds into the scene (so that I can still compose a project) but I am not able to export or render that scene.

After six months the product is updated to remove the security and the keys are no longer needed.

  1. This provides DRM with some actual teeth. Something that might actually deter a pirate for a little longer. Maybe out beyond the six month window.
  2. DRM intolerant customers have the option of waiting to purchase until the unlocked item is available. And potentially paying a premium, non-sale price.
  3. DRM cautious customers will have a reassurance that in six months the product will be open. And there is no fear of a kaiju attack on Salt Lake City.
  4. Customers with out of date keys are not locked out. They can still compose a scene, they just can't finalize it until their license is validated.

  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:30AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 8:35AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236148

I'm confused. You're against minimal DRM implementation aimed at adding a first level of security to protect assets from opportunistic and casual pirates.

But are suggesting the implementation of one of the harshest DRM systems I have ever heard proposed.

I truly don't believe it's black and white with DRM as in it works or it doesn't. There are many levels of effectiveness and varying amounts of impact on customers.

I firmly believe providing a plug and play zip file as a product package is akin to laying down a pirate party welcome mat with free jugs of rum for all.



  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 8:35AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236149

I am against first level DRM security because it is pointless. It's going to stop your average pirate for... what, five minutes? And inconvenience customers for forever.

Instead of complaining that the sky is falling. Or just complaining. I am trying to be constructive and offer additional ideas.

Like I have said repeatedly, I don't begrudge any PA for wanting to protect their work. But the official path being chosen now (as I understand it) benefits no one.


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:39AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 8:44AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236152

I think you're overestimating the skills of the average pirate. Most pirates who share DS products in all likelihood have never even used DS and have no actual experience at breaking 64 bit encrypted files. The process in the future will also add a level of difficulty to those wanting to use pirated content in DS where at present there is none.



  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:41AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 8:43AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236153

Some of the pirates I have dealt with I have been able to trace their digital footprints to actually find their name and address in the states.

Hardly super hacker criminal masterminds,..



  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 8:45AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236154

Razor42 posted at 9:41AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236152

I think you're overestimating the skills of the average pirate. Most pirates who share DS products in all likelihood have never even used DS and have no actual experience at breaking 64 bit encrypted files. The process will also add a level of difficulty to those wanting to use pirated content in DS where at present there is none.

True. But that is going to change just as soon as DAZ throws down the gauntlet. Now its going to be a challenge which will be accepted. The first broken encryption will take the longest, but I don't imagine it will be very long.

After all just like most DRM the pirate will have access to both the key and the lock.

Each subsequent decryption will be much faster, since the process will be known.


  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 8:49AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 8:49AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236156

Razor42 posted at 9:46AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236153

Some of the pirates I have dealt with I have been able to trace their digital footprints to actually find their name and address in the states.

Hardly super hacker criminal masterminds,..

I have done the same as well, in a slightly different context. But now you've made my point... What did you do about them? Did you stop them? Were their any repercussions? Usually there are none.

Why? (Forgive the reference.) It is like Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory trying to explain to the police how his Battle Ostrich in Word of Warcraft was stolen. Nothing happened because no one really knows what to do... Unfortunately to most laws these digital possessions have no intrinsic value. The laws have not caught up to reality.


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:51AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 8:53AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236157

Theres hardly the esteem in cracking a pair of panties for a 3D dolly as there is in say a blockbuster game, movie or program.


I was tempted to send them a rattlesnake in the mail, but I would feel bad for the snake ;)



  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 8:52AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236158

"So if you don't want to buy protected assets and programs you are free to make your own."

I dont understrand the level of panic I am seeing over some future content that may have some Slight "impediments"to peoples usage.

Seriosly what are you ALL actually doing with all this content that now seems threatend by DRM

My NON Cloud copy of Adobe CS3 is still useful for All of my creative objectives from 2D graphic design for print to editing textures for my 3D work.

My NON Cloud version of Adobe After effects CS3 with video co-pilots optical flare system and many other feature enhancing plugins ,is being used right now to colorgrade & add visual effects to my current animated film project.

My discontinued version of natural motion's "Endorphin 2.7" is being used to create incredible hardbody Dynamics and ragdoll simulations that export to poser/DAZ ready BVH files.

Even the most die hard DS user will not have his Artistic efforts completely neutralized/halted by DRM or.... Gasp!!! having to use the "Old" Daz studio 4.8.09 for his precious web gallery/deviantart uploads.

from the posts I have read over at the Daz site most seem to be complaints from compulsive digtal hoarders who will not be able to implement thier personal content organizational schemes.

Calm yourselves

There are many ways to light Europe.



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 8:57AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 9:11AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236159

Also if you're not even smart enough to hide your actual identity while blatantly committing a crime. I'm willing to bet that cracking even basic encryption on a file is probably something that would just make you move onto easier prey. The level of DRM proposed on Daz3D products will be effective, at the least, in combating this level of casual piracy while only adding a barely noticeable level of annoyance to the far majority of legitimate users.



  JasonGalterio    ( ) ( posted at 8:59AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236160

Razor42 posted at 9:53AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236157

Theres hardly the esteem in cracking a pair of panties for a 3D dolly as there is in say a blockbuster game, movie or program.


I was tempted to send them a rattlesnake in the mail, but I would feel bad for the snake ;)

I agree. But someone will notice and will take on the challenge. Wait and see.

And part of the reason why the laws haven't caught up is the lawyers themselves. The heavy handed approach they normal take has made it a joke... Let's sue a 67 year old grandma in Des Moines for 17 million dollars because one of her grandchildren downloaded the latest Katy Perry album.

Instead of making an example of someone, they made a mockery of themselves... attacking a suburban retiree that probably only uses her computer to look at family pictures on Facebook.

As someone else said there is no magic bullet. And something does need to be done. But the only way to improve on this is by discourse. Plotting a course while sitting in a bottle hardly ever solves anything.


  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 9:08AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 9:21AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236162

Unfortunately laws are something that are well beyond mine or DAZ3D's sphere of influence and the way big business has attempted to deal with the issue has, as you have described, done nothing to remedy the situation and in a lot of cases eroded people's confidence in the process. I'm actually not sure how much sway US or international law has on a .ru file sharing site though. Which means really the responsibility ultimately lies with the seller to implement security measures that make an effort to suppress piracy of their products or at the very least put in place barriers to prevent casual piracy. Importantly whatever measures are taken need to cause minimal issue to customers in the usage of the product, at the risk of losing those customers.



  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 9:56AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 9:58AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236165

"I'm actually not sure how much sway US or international law has on a .ru file sharing site though.

None.. After this new DAZ Encryption is broken and a script developed to automate the process. this "protected content will be shared ,as usual on torrent.

Once seeded it spreads even faster than a virus because the constituent parts are crowd sourced all over the planet via "Seeding", not just in known "enemy" lands such as China & Russia.

As the technology now stands the only way to literally prevent this is to physically enclose your country within some Draconian Faraday Cage that blocks All external communications including satelites.

not really an option here.



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  Razor42    ( ) ( posted at 10:04AM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236166

Maybe I wouldn't go so far as describing Russia and China as enemy lands, but I get your point, lol.

China is the number 1 spending country globally for gaming too, on an OT note. http://www.newzoo.com/free/rankings/top-100-countries-by-game-revenues/



  WandW    ( ) ( posted at 11:07AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 11:21AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236175

Zev0 posted at 11:31AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4235788

WandW posted at 5:08PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235778

DAZ is no longer a small shop run by a group of artists, but is now but one small piece of a $80 Billion dollar corporation, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone, and has to contribute to their bottom line...

Say what now?

Sorry for the delay, Zev, as I got no eBots.

Yes, DAZ is owned by NTT DOMOCO Innovations, formerly (until 1 October) NTT DOMOCO Capital, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of NTT DoMoCo, the largest wireless carrier in Japan, which is majority owned and controlled by NTT, the big Japanese telecom company. They had a huge stake in Gizmoz, which merged with DAZ in 2009, and apparently acquired the rest of DAZ in 2011. Here is a list of companies they own...

https://www.docomoinnovations.com/portfolio

Regarding Terry's comment about Poser's ownership, (which I suppose was off topic here 😉 ) Yes, Poser has been owned by other software companies for over a decade (and was bought by MetaCreations back in the 1990s before being spun off into Curious Labs as well). However, Poser's management has remained mostly intact through this period, unlike at DAZ, where most (along with many of their in-house artists) were shown the door...

EDIT; Highway 12 Ventures apparently still has a stake; info on privately held companies is hard to find...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."

“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"

"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".


  Male_M3dia    ( ) ( posted at 11:58AM Sat, 31 October 2015 · edited on 12:05PM Sat, 31 October 2015 · @4236182

WandW posted at 12:51PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236175

Zev0 posted at 11:31AM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4235788

WandW posted at 5:08PM Thu, 29 October 2015 - #4235778

DAZ is no longer a small shop run by a group of artists, but is now but one small piece of a $80 Billion dollar corporation, Nippon Telegraph and Telephone, and has to contribute to their bottom line...

Say what now?

Sorry for the delay, Zev, as I got no eBots.

Yes, DAZ is owned by NTT DOMOCO Innovations, formerly (until 1 October) NTT DOMOCO Capital, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of NTT DoMoCo, the largest wireless carrier in Japan, which is majority owned and controlled by NTT, the big Japanese telecom company. They had a huge stake in Gizmoz, which merged with DAZ in 2009, and apparently acquired the rest of DAZ in 2011. Here is a list of companies they own...

https://www.docomoinnovations.com/portfolio

Regarding Terry's comment about Poser's ownership, (which I suppose was off topic here 😉 ) Yes, Poser has been owned by other software companies for over a decade (and was bought by MetaCreations back in the 1990s before being spun off into Curious Labs as well). However, Poser's management has remained mostly intact through this period, unlike at DAZ, where most (along with many of their in-house artists) were shown the door...

EDIT; Highway 12 Ventures apparently still has a stake; info on privately held companies is hard to find...

Actually no management was ever shown the door.. they sold their stake in company and left. Not sure who started that nonsense, but that should really be cleared up. You can't be shown the door on something you owned, but you can sell it and start a comicon. ;)

And most likely there was a purge at SM at the beginning of this year despite what was said. Word was it was hard to get in touch regarding dson/genesis issues with anyone at SM when all the contacts no longer worked at the company. :) But it does help to give some background on why Poser support was dropped with Genesis 3.

And as far as your references as far as who owns the company, I had to go ask. They don't know what you're talking about. I would stop spreading that if I were you. They thought the phone company part was funny though, I want some free phone service if that was actually true.


  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 12:44PM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236186

@wolf359 Perhaps it is best if we don't go labelling other countries as enemy lands I doubt it would be helpful sending this thread along its merry way. Renderosity is a global website DRM is a global issue. Please keep this in mind

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  WandW    ( ) ( posted at 12:52PM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236192

Male_M3dia posted at 1:28PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236182

Actually no management was ever shown the door.. they sold their stake in company and left. Not sure who started that nonsense, but that should really be cleared up. You can't be shown the door on something you owned, but you can sell it and start a comicon. ;)

Darn it; I tried to edit the link and deleted the post! Thank goodness for a local cache!

Chris Creek said this. He of course sold his stake around the time of the Gizmoz merger and left, but was later brought back. The Board by then was controlled by the investors (they had at least a $12 million stake in Gizmoz, plus whatever they had in DAZ; at least $9 Million when the merger was effected... ( http://techcrunch.com/2009/12/15/gizmoz-daz-3d-merges/ ) , and Dan Farr was later forced out (according to Chris) and Chris of course was later let go.

As far as NTT's ownership goes, check the link I posted... :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."

“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"

"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".


  WandW    ( ) ( posted at 1:12PM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236199

As an somewhat off-topic aside, whatever happened to Gizmoz' technology? I haven't yet seen caricature heads from photos make it into any DAZ products. Did they license that tech to someone else?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."

“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"

"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".


  LPR001    ( ) ( posted at 1:20PM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236203

Razor42 posted at 4:15AM Sun, 01 November 2015 - #4236157

Theres hardly the esteem in cracking a pair of panties for a 3D dolly as there is in say a blockbuster game, movie or program.


I was tempted to send them a rattlesnake in the mail, but I would feel bad for the snake ;)

I don't know about that I have seen some pretty neat pairs of 3D panties in my time. Luck would have it they have always been on special so I haven't had the desire to crack them open. I pay for everything I get and so do the majority. Send the rattlesnake

- Johnny G

"Try animation to get things moving"

lpr001@renderosity.com


  Keith    ( ) ( posted at 1:22PM Sat, 31 October 2015  · @4236205

Razor42 posted at 12:15PM Sat, 31 October 2015 - #4236157

Theres hardly the esteem in cracking a pair of panties for a 3D dolly as there is in say a blockbuster game, movie or program.

Unless the DRM is constantly modified for each item, they don't have to do it for each item. They just have to get the algorithm once and then automate the process. So it won't matter if it's a pair of panties or the latest figure which the company itself is crowing about being widely used.

Besides, you're not understanding the mindset for a lot of these guys. They don't care what product the DRM they are hacking is protecting. All that matters is that they're showing how easy it is to defeat DRM.



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