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Poser F.A.Q (Updated: 2016 Nov 29 4:50 pm)


 Subject: Props with Mats. Are Texture files NEEDED?

Ragtopjohnny opened this issue on Oct 14, 2013 · 20 posts

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  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 4:43PM Mon, 14 October 2013 

Hello everyone -

Just wondering the above.  If I have a prop that has multiple proprietary textures, are the in dividual texture files themselves still needed to be distributed?

These objects are types that no templates are required, thus no changing of anything will go on.

Thanks in advance for the answer and really hoping to save alot of extra packing in my next Prop set that's ready to be going out this week. 

 

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  Medzinatar    ( ) ( posted at 6:16PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110100

I am a little confused on your usage of "proprietary".

Who are the textures proprietary to?  Or are you referring to certain builtin textures contained within Poser?



  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 7:34PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110109

Hey Medzinatar...

What I mean by proprietary is it's a piece of equipment (prop) that wouldn't have any other colors or anything like that added to it or changed.  It's manufactured as that one type of style.

The textures aren't proprietary or beling to anyone else, all my work from scratch on them, and few mats I have I have permission to redistribute on some items. 😄

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  Medzinatar    ( ) ( posted at 8:28PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110118

Maybe I not quite understand. Maybe someone else can see different meaning.
If it needs a texture map file to work, of course you must supply that.
AFAIK, a shader network need not be supplied separately if it is incorporated into object.



  DreamlandModels    ( ) ( posted at 8:31PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110120

John, Use smaller words, okay? :-)



  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 8:33PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110121

Thank you.  That's what I was wondering about that.

So the MAT file is technically a SHADER?  Am I understanding that correctly?  I've done textures for a vehicle that is out there, but this is my first set of props that I am making for it.  That's why I was just a little bit confused on that aspect of it.

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  LaurieA    ( ) ( posted at 9:27PM Mon, 14 October 2013 · edited on 9:35PM Mon, 14 October 2013 · @4110126

A MAT is shader and/or texture. You can have a texture in a shader. The shader is the whole shebang...all the included nodes (procedural nodes). The texture is 2D map that was painted to match a set of uvs. A shader may, or may not have a texture map within it.

Like everyone else, I'm not sure what you're getting at with your question. Color me confused. If you mean, do you HAVE to make textures, no. You can make shaders that have no texture and leave it at that. I wouldn't use someone else's shader recipe tho...that's kinda frowned on.

Laurie

______________________________________________________________________

My ShareCG Freebies for Poser and DazStudio


  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 9:35PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110128

Hey all,

Let me help explain a bit what I'm asking.

Say you buy a stereo.  A particular model has a particular color or pattern that it goes by in its design.  It isn't changed at all what so ever.  That's what I'm wondering.  If I'm making a piece of equipment that won't be changed at all, then no templates, or texture files are needed, right?  Then I can just include the shader for it and its all set? 

Sorry to confuse everyone. 

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  maxxxmodelz    ( ) ( posted at 10:11PM Mon, 14 October 2013 · edited on 10:11PM Mon, 14 October 2013 · @4110133

Quote - Hey all,

Let me help explain a bit what I'm asking.

Say you buy a stereo.  A particular model has a particular color or pattern that it goes by in its design.  It isn't changed at all what so ever.  That's what I'm wondering.  If I'm making a piece of equipment that won't be changed at all, then no templates, or texture files are needed, right?  Then I can just include the shader for it and its all set? 

Sorry to confuse everyone.

 That still makes little sense.  If a part of a model you are planning to sell needs a texture to make it look correct, then you really need to supply one.  It needs texture coordinates and texture maps, unless you are planning to create and distribute the materials as procedurals.  For instance, a knob on a stereo may not need a detailed texture, but simply slapping on a reflective silver material might not make it look all that realistic, compared to other textures and materials on the model.  Know what I mean?  You could mix and match texture maps with procedural materials, but every part of the model should look finished if you plan to sell it.

Johnny, please don't be offended, but I find it a little disheartening to see that you are still clearly in the learning process of creation for Poser, but yet you are preparing to sell products for it?  I guess that's what quality control staff is for in the market place, but it might be a good thing for ANYONE planning to build products for sale, to wait until you really know what is going on with basic Poser things, like Textures and Materials.


Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.


  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 10:16PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110134

Hey maxxxmodelz

I do know about texture maps, its just that I have so many textures made for the product that I was wondering.  It's going to be a HUGE file size is what my concern is over.

My modeling skills are there, understanding of models are there, it's just that I'm sure everyone to this day still has questions about techniques with it, that's why I was wondering.  I don't mind including all my textures, just thought it would be easier for mat files instead of having them all there.

Kind of shortcut purposes.  I know, shame on me for thinking of a short cut, but hey, we all like to take 'em from time to time, right?  😄

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  maxxxmodelz    ( ) ( posted at 10:37PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110139

Ok.

Do you do your modeling in Max?  If so, it couldn't hurt your cause, and might actually help your sales, if once in a while you showed off some of those modeling skills over in the Max forum here. ;-)  We could use some more activity there.

I wasn't trying to berate you in any way.  Just that the language of your questions bespoke a limited knowledge of the tools, and actually seemed quite self-evident to anyone preparing to take products to the market place.  But then again, not everyone is terminologically proficient, and that doesn't mean they aren't skilled.

Seriously though, as one Max user to another, would be nice for you to show off some of your WIP's, or even just share your knowledge of modeling in the package, over in that forum once in a blue moon.  Or perhaps the 3D modeling forum here, if it's something more generalized.

Good luck with your product!


Tools :  3dsmax 2015, Daz Studio 4.6, PoserPro 2012, Blender v2.74

System: Pentium QuadCore i7, under Win 8, GeForce GTX 780 / 2GB GPU.


  markschum    ( ) ( posted at 10:58PM Mon, 14 October 2013  · @4110144

If you create a prop with materials  then those materials are saved with the prop. You only need to distribute any image maps that are used.

mat poses or material files are only needed to change the props texture after it is loaded.


  obm890    ( ) ( posted at 3:13AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110160

I think it's safe to say that in order to sell products in the marketplace you should have a reasonably clear understanding of things like shaders, image textures, templates and material files, and what each of these things actually does. From your questions it appears that you're confused.

Quote - I don't mind including all my textures, just thought it would be easier for mat files instead of having them all there.

Kind of shortcut purposes.

A mat file isn't a substitute for textures, it's a means of assigning shaders (which may include textures) to a model.

Quote - I do know about texture maps, its just that I have so many textures made for the product that I was wondering.  It's going to be a HUGE file size is what my concern is over.

"So many textures"? Are they different options you were exploring, or are they all part of it? If you have made all these textures for the product, what do you think is is going to look like if you sell it without the textures? If the textures you made are required to make the product look right, how is the purchaser going to get them if you don't include them?

Are they image textures or procedural textures, and how are these textures assigned? Is the model UVmapped, or are you using some other form of mapping? Are you even talking about textures, or are you talking about shaders?

Quote - Say you buy a stereo.  A particular model has a particular color or pattern that it goes by in its design.  It isn't changed at all what so ever.  That's what I'm wondering.  If I'm making a piece of equipment that won't be changed at all, then no templates, or texture files are needed, right?  Then I can just include the shader for it and its all set? 

How do you know the color won't be changed at all? What if someone wants to make it dirty or rusty or blood-spattered? If the model is UVmapped you need to provide a template, it has nothing to do with whether you think it will be changed or not.

 



  vilters    ( ) ( posted at 7:59AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110189

The answer to your question.

You have 3 things :

  1. an object file
  2. textures
  3. and a way to tell the texture where to go on the object file.

Whatever you make, or whatever you distribute, you will need all 3 of the above.

The difference being in step 3.

"HOW" do you tell every pixel of the texture where to go, and to what polygon it belongs to in the object file.

You can do that in a mat file (old or new style), or you can do that inside the cr2, or pp2.
Build up a shader, or some nodes, or if you only use complete procedural covering you still have other ways. Or you can simply use material zones in the object file and color these and use the object properties to give color to your object. This way you not even have to UV-map it at all.
Or use no specific material zones in the obj file and put it all in the same texture.

In the end you still need the same 3.

  1. an object file
  2. textures
  3. and a way to tell the texture where to go on the object file.

My personal favorite is simple and works all the time. Give me the object file and give me the texture(s).

All the rest is usually useless anyway as the end result will always depend on the light setup of the end user.

For textures.

  1. a diffuse texture, YES

  2. a displacement map YES

  3. a bump map, a NO-GO. Do not bother. It is fake, always has, and always will be.

  4. a normal map, please keep it. It is fake, always has, and always will be.

  5. a specular map, the back door is open. In 17 Posering years I have never seen one that had any added value at all.

Personal preferences for distribution? KISS is the way to go.
Object file, diffuse texture, displacement map.
Keep all the rest.
 
I know this is NOT standard, and most stores require:
A cr2(pp2), somtimes also a mat file, and a uv-layout template also.

On my PC they all get the visit of the "DEL" key anyway.

 

 

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


  vilters    ( ) ( posted at 8:13AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110192

In another post you praise the fitting room.

What is happening there?

Some years ago, some creative builder made a clothing item for "example" M3 or V3.

He build the object file.
He build the textures.
He build the rigging to conform it to M3.
He distributed the lot as a conforming clothing to M3 or V3.

PP2014 users can now use this clothing item on any other figure using the fitting room.

But? What do we actually use? ? ? The object file and the texture.

What stays?
The "fitted" object file.
The textures stayed the same.

What changed?
The rigigng changed completely. And usually the grouping changed also.

The newer Poser versions.

You can use Poser traditional skinnging now, or change it to Poser unimesh, and use internal SubD to further enhance the quality.
Or change the rig from traditional to weight-mapped, and re-paint the Weight-map.

In the material room, some guys can take your texture and chase it to Mars and back if required. You will not recognise it any more as yours.


If in the majority of my posts, If I did not mention what figures or textures I used, nobody would ever know.

That is the flexibility the newer Poser versions offer.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


  vilters    ( ) ( posted at 8:16AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110193

In short answer.
A mat file only tells the texture file where and how to go on the obj file. (but a cr2 or pp2 file can do the same)
You still need to include the texture in your package.

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


  LaurieA    ( ) ( posted at 9:18AM Tue, 15 October 2013 · edited on 9:18AM Tue, 15 October 2013 · @4110200

I was just rereading what you were asking and thought maybe you meant this:

NO, no external texture files are embedded in a shader file (material or material colletion or MAT pose file (pp2)). Only the instructions to call the external file are in the material, not the texture map itself. You will need to also include any external texture files used in a materal (mt5), material collection (mc6) or a MAT pose file (pp2).

Laurie

______________________________________________________________________

My ShareCG Freebies for Poser and DazStudio


  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 9:52AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110206

Thanks for your excellent insight again as usual Vilters. 

I got the fitting room working perfectly.  Your Fall Off was the key.  I love that feature now, no issues what so ever.

I appreciate your explanatioin of what the maps and everything do.

 

Thanks Laurie -- that's exactly what I was wondering.  So I'll have the included textures I used to make it with the product.  😄

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  LaurieA    ( ) ( posted at 11:13AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110232

You will need to keep the folder with your textures relative to how you saved the paths in the material files in your zip structure so that they copy over to a runtime in their correct position.

Laurie

______________________________________________________________________

My ShareCG Freebies for Poser and DazStudio


  Ragtopjohnny    ( ) ( posted at 11:30AM Tue, 15 October 2013  · @4110238

Thanks for that extra tip as well.  Appreciate that.  😄

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


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