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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Updated: 2019 Jun 20 8:35 am)


 Subject: "Poser can't do animation" said no-one at Rooster Teeth

thinkcooper opened this issue on Mar 01, 2013 · 70 posts

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  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 11:41PM Fri, 01 March 2013 · edited on 11:53PM Fri, 01 March 2013

Attached Link: RWBY White Trailer

If you haven't heard of Rooster Teeth, well, time to fire up the interwebs and see what its all about. :-)

Rooster Teeth has the largest youtube channel of any non-pop star out there. Top twenty all time. A billion views on Red vs. Blue alone. Billion with a "B". Their business 24/7 is creating content, as in animated shorts, comedy, sketches... And they have audiences and viewership numbers that make the Cartoon Network blush with envy. And the connection to Poser? They use it. In a major way.

Red vs. Blue? All Poser. And they have a new series RWBY. Cut and paste "All Poser". Red vs, Blue has been all Poser for the last five years. And RWBY is all Poser as well. BVH Mocap data. Compositing in non linear video tools. Some video effects. But Poser through and through. We're pretty jazzed to see what they have been up to.

If you want to see too, check out these these youtoobs


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 11:43PM Fri, 01 March 2013  · @4046702

Attached Link: RWBY Red

And another


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 11:47PM Fri, 01 March 2013  · @4046706

Attached Link: S8 Tex fights Red and Blue

And the grand daddy, Red vs. Blue...

Monty Oum the lead animator, along with Shane Newville and the rest of the team at Rooster Teeth turned the game of Halo into the top-dog of Machinema by getting Microsoft to lend them the game assets so they could rig and animate them in Poser to do comedy.

My favorite of the bunch is this one.


  ghostman    ( ) ( posted at 11:56PM Fri, 01 March 2013  · @4046711

WOW! Way cool. :)

"Dream like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow."


PoserLounge


  R_Hatch    ( ) ( posted at 12:36AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 12:38AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046717

While we're on the topic of video games and Poser...

Any chance the next version of Poser will have better realtime shaders/effects? Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012 are already a vast improvement over previous versions, but there are a few things lacking in the realtime shaders, namely reflection maps and some type of SSS. The ability to also use custom GLSL shaders (at least for Poser Pro) would also be very appreciated.

Among things currently implemented, but in need of improvement, the shadows and transparency handling could use a little sprucing up :)


  monkeycloud    ( ) ( posted at 12:43AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 12:46AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046722

That Red vs Blue one is very funny :) Both my 16 month old son and I just laughed our asses off at it.

He's a big fan of any kind of physical comedy ;)

Very well done!


  rokket    ( ) ( posted at 8:08AM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046791

I loved it. I think I've seen something similar to the RWBY White trailer before, but this was nicely done.

And I laughed my ass off with tex vs red and blue.

Very nice work too!

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


  Saxon3d    ( ) ( posted at 8:26AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 8:28AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046798

Way funny, be interesting to know what sort of system specs they create that stuff on :) and whether it was rendered in FF or an external engine.....


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 9:18AM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046808

Impressive, but don't say all Poser, it's so very obvious it isn't, but impressive nonetheless.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 9:36AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 9:37AM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046816

Quote - Way funny, be interesting to know what sort of system specs they create that stuff on :) and whether it was rendered in FF or an external engine.....

Their 3D content sequences with full lighting, stage and set are rendered in Poser; in the case of Red vs. Blue, it's using the realtime preview rendered as a sequence of images. For RWBY it's a composition of toon shading preview renders, custom materials, rendered in layers and composited in post.

Quote - Impressive, but don't say all Poser, it's so very obvious it isn't, but impressive nonetheless.

In my staccato literary style I do say "all" but in paragraph three dig in a wee bit deeper and credit effects in post. All their starring role 3D elements are done in Poser, using custom tweaked or custom rigged characters. Monty Oum, the creator is doing at least one open panel for us at the RTX (Rooster Teeth's fan event) show this July in Austin, Texas. He goes into full detail on his use of Poser. It's remarkable to see how he gets these out of Poser. They have a site license of Poser Pro and have trained a dozen team members on Poser to execute new episodes for several concurrent series. They also have their own on-site mocap stage and Monty, along with a few martial arts friends actually do the choreography and fight captures.

How about "All" with an asterisk? ;-)


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 9:41AM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046822

Quote - How about "All" with an asterisk? ;-)

 

That would be much better :biggrin:

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 9:42AM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046824

Quote - > Quote - How about "All" with an asterisk? ;-)

That would be much better :biggrin:

 

Mon chapeau, sir!


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 9:47AM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046825

Quote - Any chance the next version of Poser will... jkgrth .... lmbbvcx ..... ssss .....

sorry, you broke up there. Try again later? ;)


  meatSim    ( ) ( posted at 10:39AM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046836

lol


  moogal    ( ) ( posted at 5:34PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046919

I don't understand how red vs blue could have been done in Poser.  I thought it came out before Poser got weight mapping (which looks to be in use here).


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 5:44PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 5:47PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046921

 

Quote - I don't understand how red vs blue could have been done in Poser.  I thought it came out before Poser got weight mapping (which looks to be in use here).

The original RvB was indeed pre-Poser. When Monty joined the team he transitioned them to Poser, I believe its about five years now. Since that point they may model in other apps, but it's rigged, materials applied, animated and rendered out of Poser.

They can do some cool tricks as a byproduct of their relationship with Microsoft (owners of Bungee and the Halo property) including using direct game assets like charcaters, or doing screen caps of architectural elements which they then texture and place into Poser for the interior and environmental scenes.

Here are some snaps I shot at RTX last summer, during the Monty Oum R vs.B panel. Note the images on the screen are from the Tex S8 fight video I posted above.

note the classic Poser ground plane above :-)

interesting file extensions eh?

I think I recognize those iconic folder tab UI qwidgets. :-)


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 6:00PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046930

Attached Link: MegaMan X Fanimation from Shane Newville

Shane Newville, another of the Rooster Teeth animators created this fanimation in Poser, to celebrate the 25th anniversary of Capcom's Megaman. You guys might recognize some of Stonemason's set work in this one.


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 6:11PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046933

Now that's clearly poser.... "all" of it :biggrin: Imoressive, must have taken quite a while to create.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 6:20PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046935

Quote - Now that's clearly poser.... "all" of it :biggrin: Imoressive, must have taken quite a while to create.

 

You'd think so, bu you know what's weird? They create episodes at an epic pace.

Because they are primarily using realtime preview renders to give the final video that "gamey" look and feel, they actually move really quick. Much faster than a typical studio using harder to use, more exclusive tools. They are also able to set up lots of assistants to work in Poser on the support components. That's not as easy to accomplish with high-expertise-barrier tools like Maya or Max.


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 6:27PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 6:28PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046938

Well, the new openGL features such as hardware shading and hardware AO, make a lot of difference compared to the previous poser versions, even on my 'crappy' laptop gfx card. I can imagine that having a machine with a good graphics card can do such excellent stuff as this. Still, having said that, I couldn't do it fast at all.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  Cyberdene    ( ) ( posted at 6:57PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046948

Ratings to me, never really meant "better" Try comparing a lot of the terrible animations to how it use to be for my generation and the animation today loses. The 1990s seen a major wave of hardcore animation, granted CGI and 3D animation is still very rare because not too many people use it. Imagine if a lot more movies were using the Technology the studio that worked on the first two CGI Resident Evil films, or the makers of the Final Fantasy Advent Children film. Now Poser can never compete with that, Octane maybe but Poser is only good for one thing and that's setting up figures. And even then its buggy sometimes, a real memory eater too which causes major slow down if you have at least 4 or more figures in a scene.  One time I tried to render in poser 7 and it nearly took me two days to get it to finish. Plus animations for Poser in general look bad. If your going to roll with animating I suggest getting some Softimage XSI skill or 3D Studio Max, maybe Maya which is pretty much the same as Softimage XSI. 


  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 7:01PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046949

Quote - Ratings to me, never really meant "better" Try comparing a lot of the terrible animations to how it use to be for my generation and the animation today loses. The 1990s seen a major wave of hardcore animation, granted CGI and 3D animation is still very rare because not too many people use it. Imagine if a lot more movies were using the Technology the studio that worked on the first two CGI Resident Evil films, or the makers of the Final Fantasy Advent Children film. Now Poser can never compete with that, Octane maybe but Poser is only good for one thing and that's setting up figures. And even then its buggy sometimes, a real memory eater too which causes major slow down if you have at least 4 or more figures in a scene.  One time I tried to render in poser 7 and it nearly took me two days to get it to finish. Plus animations for Poser in general look bad. If your going to roll with animating I suggest getting some Softimage XSI skill or 3D Studio Max, maybe Maya which is pretty much the same as Softimage XSI. 

You really should watch the videos I linked to.


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 8:25PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046967

HI I dont think anyone has honestly asserted that you cant Do animation "in poser".

I think I have debunked that notion over these last 10- 12 years.

I think for some the question often becomes wether you can produce"final quality" animation productions all within in poser including full render and the answer remains a resounding ..No IMHO.

Posers ability to import  canned BVH mocap from a variety of sources and apply it to figures with "basic "poser rigging is its strong suit for sure.

Although at this point the aniMate+ nonlinear motion clip mixing system for DAZ Studio is the Superior approach.

The problem however with both poser & DS is when you have to create Custom Client guided, hand keyed animation.
this is when you see how horribly broken
is posers "all or nothing IK system is.
and how ancient its graph editor and Dope sheet is as well.
and have you ever tried to do some really dramatic animated camera move with posers cameras and the "point at "feature enabled??

From my perspective as someone who does animation for paying clients
the greatest feature poser has seen the last decade is the poser physics/ragdoll system and that is from a dedicated third party developer.

And as Cyberdene stated  rendering full quality animation frames in Firefly is just a non starter
completely impractical IMHO.



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 8:27PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046968

HI I dont think anyone has honestly asserted that you cant Do animation "in poser".

I think I have debunked that notion over these last 10- 12 years.

I think for some the question often becomes wether you can produce"final quality" animation productions all within in poser including full render and the answer remains a resounding ..No IMHO.

Posers ability to import  canned BVH mocap from a variety of sources and apply it to figures with "basic "poser rigging is its strong suit for sure.

Although at this point the aniMate+ nonlinear motion clip mixing system for DAZ Studio is the Superior approach.

The problem however with both poser & DS is when you have to create Custom Client guided, hand keyed animation.
this is when you see how horribly broken
is posers "all or nothing IK system is.
and how ancient its graph editor and Dope sheet is as well.
and have you ever tried to do some really dramatic animated camera move with posers cameras and the "point at "feature enabled??

From my perspective as someone who does animation for paying clients
the greatest feature poser has seen the last decade is the poser physics/ragdoll system and that is from a dedicated third party developer.

And as Cyberdene stated  rendering full quality animation frames in Firefly is just a non starter
completely impractical IMHO.



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 8:31PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046970

Attached Link: Gabe Sabloff's Reel

Quote - HI I dont think anyone has honestly asserted that you cant Do animation "in poser".

I think I have debunked that notion over these last 10- 12 years.

I think for some the question often becomes wether you can produce"final quality" animation productions all within in poser including full render and the answer remains a resounding ..No IMHO.

Posers ability to import  canned BVH mocap from a variety of sources and apply it to figures with "basic "poser rigging is its strong suit for sure.

Although at this point the aniMate+ nonlinear motion clip mixing system for DAZ Studio is the Superior approach.

The problem however with both poser & DS is when you have to create Custom Client guided, hand keyed animation.
this is when you see how horribly broken
is posers "all or nothing IK system is.
and how ancient its graph editor and Dope sheet is as well.
and have you ever tried to do some really dramatic animated camera move with posers cameras and the "point at "feature enabled??

From my perspective as someone who does animation for paying clients
the greatest feature poser has seen the last decade is the poser physics/ragdoll system and that is from a dedicated third party developer.

And as Cyberdene stated  rendering full quality animation frames in Firefly is just a non starter
completely impractical IMHO.

 

Rooster Teeth seems to feel otherwise.

So does Gabe Sabloff


  mylemonblue    ( ) ( posted at 8:37PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 8:39PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046971

Those are some great videos! Thanks thinkcooper for sharing that with us. (^__^)

 

I've seen some amazing things done with Poser and I look forward to people showing off more of their tallents that way with Poser.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 8:41PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046973

Attached Link: "The Drop" by Gabe Sabloff

Quote - Those are some great videos! Thanks for sharing that with us. (^__^)

 

I've seen some amazing things done with Poser and I look forward to people showing off more of their tallents that way with Poser.

Thanks man! I mentioned Gabe's name a post above. Check out this animation he created for Chris Brown's 2008 concert tour. This video ran on a jumbotron behind the stage and gave a little "back story" on why Brown was late for the show. At the end of the video, the band would rappel on stage from a superstructure above and jump into their first number. Dramatic stuff.


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 9:01PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 9:02PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046983

"
Rooster Teeth seems to feel otherwise.So does Gabe Sabloff"

Yes it is good for people to feel enthusiastic about their own projects
and Canned mocap & open GL screen blasts  can be useful for some projects but you run into posers severe limitations when you need full quality renders  in outdoor environments or quality hand keyed animation at your clients direction where you can not depend on canned BVH Data.

but fortunately there are options for getting animated poser figure into other programs for rendering  so posers rendering limitations need not be a show stopper for us who need  the speed of a pro level render engine for our poser animation work
( See my Demo Reel Sig link for Example)

Cheers



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 9:11PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4046985

Quote - "
Rooster Teeth seems to feel otherwise.So does Gabe Sabloff"

Yes it is good for people to feel enthusiastic about their own projects
and Canned mocap & open GL screen blasts  can be useful for some projects but you run into posers severe limitations when you need full quality renders  in outdoor environments or quality hand keyed animation at your clients direction where you can not depend on canned BVH Data.

but fortunately there are options for getting animated poser figure into other programs for rendering  so posers rendering limitations need not be a show stopper for us who need  the speed of a pro level render engine for our poser animation work
( See my Demo Reel Sig link for Example)

Cheers

Yep, checked out your demo reel, several times actually over the years. When you've got any updated professional samples, please let me know.

The folks I've linked to seem to be making a pretty remarkable living doing animation with Poser. Rooster Teeth has at least fifty people on fulltime staff creating animation, video, voice overs.

I'm always on the hunt for stellar Poser animation. Good luck!


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 9:18PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 9:19PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046987

Just a quick example of what I mean by "Full quality"  animation render of an animated poser figure

http://vimeo.com/44397428

But again the interposer pro plugin Makes the rendering of poser content in  C4D quite easy  and there seems to be new option for other rendering apps appearing every few months so things are looking good for us  poser animators overall

Cheers



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  mylemonblue    ( ) ( posted at 9:29PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · edited on 9:29PM Sat, 02 March 2013 · @4046991

Quote - > Quote - Those are some great videos! Thanks for sharing that with us. (^__^)

 

I've seen some amazing things done with Poser and I look forward to people showing off more of their tallents that way with Poser.

Thanks man! I mentioned Gabe's name a post above. Check out this animation he created for Chris Brown's 2008 concert tour. This video ran on a jumbotron behind the stage and gave a little "back story" on why Brown was late for the show. At the end of the video, the band would rappel on stage from a superstructure above and jump into their first number. Dramatic stuff.

That's a pretty sweet vid. I noticed one of Sanctum Arts Phenotypes and the use of one of Stonemasons' sci-fi corridors. It also looked like they used one of the custom render or shader scripts I've seen somewhere in the Poser community.

My brain is just a toy box filled with weird things

  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 10:15PM Sat, 02 March 2013  · @4047006

I think the RWBY trailers are professional anomations in any sense of the word - fit for TV or cinema. A workflow of how they produce their animation would be extremely educational. Maybe the lesson I learned from the Anomaly webinar was that sometimes simple things work best is here applicable too.

 

 


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 1:21AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 1:25AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047037

Quote - Ratings to me, never really meant "better" Try comparing a lot of the terrible animations to how it use to be for my generation and the animation today loses. The 1990s seen a major wave of hardcore animation, granted CGI and 3D animation is still very rare because not too many people use it. Imagine if a lot more movies were using the Technology the studio that worked on the first two CGI Resident Evil films, or the makers of the Final Fantasy Advent Children film. Now Poser can never compete with that, Octane maybe but Poser is only good for one thing and that's setting up figures. And even then its buggy sometimes, a real memory eater too which causes major slow down if you have at least 4 or more figures in a scene.  One time I tried to render in poser 7 and it nearly took me two days to get it to finish. Plus animations for Poser in general look bad. If your going to roll with animating I suggest getting some Softimage XSI skill or 3D Studio Max, maybe Maya which is pretty much the same as Softimage XSI. 

 

I can't believe that these words come from someone who uses poser.... Poser is only good for one thing and that's setting up figures? Com'on, Poser deserves a bit more credit then that after all these years and it sure can be used for more then what you say. Seems like you're still using an old version of Poser, a lot has changed since version 7......

 

I know that animations in Poser generally looks bad, but let's be honest, that isn't Poser fault, as these videos show, that's our fault.

 

Wolf and you are forgetting one thing though, while the traditionally the big 3D applications are alwasy the ones you needed for doing animation, things are slowly changing. GPU rendering is getting more and more advanced and that technolgy is becoming available for everyone. We're getting close to where we don't need an expensive rendering engine for animations anymore. Thanks to the game industry a lot is changing.

 

Honestly, I've been waiting for the whole you cannot do this with Poser and you need 3DS, XSI and so on...... the videos show you can, now people need to learn it and that seems to be the biggest ostacle. It's not like we're using Poser 7 with a single core cpu and 2 gb of RAM, please, those days are over. We now have Poser Pro 2012, 64 bit with Que Manager for network rendering, so lot's of RAM and Cores to our disposal. The problem is that most users are still in the old poser cannot do it mindset, while we're seen plenty of examples showing us otherwise, so time for the narrow minded to break free! Throw out the old versions of poser, dump the old single or double core machine and get something up to date and be amazed at what you can do with Poser. Poser only to be used for figure setup..... I wonder how I ever did get my comic printed if it only can do that, it's a miracle that I could render printing quality with Poser then. So, wake up..... it's 2013, we're not living in the 90's anymore.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  moogal    ( ) ( posted at 2:22AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 2:29AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047052

OK, so this shows me a strength I did not know Poser had.  Will Poser grow toward this use?  When will we have parity with import/exports formats?  I want the Poser I have now, but one which works alongside Unity, iClone, D|S, and blender.  Collada, FBX, BVH both in and out, not just conforming to spec but working with the programs we all actually use.


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 3:11AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 3:24AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047059

I see your point, but honestly, I don't think the majority of poser users goes beyond poser at all, so is it worth a huge investment if only a handful of people are going to use it? You may use those programs, but we all sure don't, there are many different applications people use with Poser, giving full export/import features just isn't possible for what we're paying at the moment. Where does it end? Why only these? Why only Unity.... there are so many more game engines people use... I want full gamestudio A8 support, AGK, FPS Creator, DGS, CryEngine, Torque3D and so on.

 

With all this, let's not forget that current licensing of content will be a major problem as well, you couldn't use most of it in a 3D game engine at all and the use of Poser would be very limited when it comes to those engines. If you want to use game engines there are much better options available then Poser. So once again the question would be, is it really worth the investment.... personally I don't think so, the poser team is much better off creating features and improvement we all can benefit off, not just a few people.

 

I'm not using any of those applications myself, I'm using poser only with Vue and that works very well. E-On and Smith Micro have done a good job in working together. Working together with the others you mention may well be a tough job, I'm sure the poser team would like that, but we have to consider the other end of it all.... licenses. When it comes to D/S, forget it. DAZ isn't willing to give anyone access to their native format without paying a lot.... per seat, they've become very money hungry lately. I've gone back and forth to D/S through Collada, works great if you go from Poser to D/S, but the other way around is a huge problem, a lot of the D/S export features are simple not functioning properly, not only with poser, but with more applications.

 

I've got Collada import and export and the little bit I've used it, it worked well, but others may have done different things and may have other experiences. Also, if you have Poser Pro, I would say one of the import/export plugins should work with all of the mentioned applications, with exception of blender perhaps, don't know that one.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  Dale B    ( ) ( posted at 5:23AM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047073

Thanks for sharing, Coop!

Nice teaser designs, excellent staging and interesting characterizations for the first two members of this group. As well as excellent synching with the score. These guys are -good-. This is the kind of thing that puts big, big cracks in that 'Poser is a Toy' meme.  


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 5:33AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 5:39AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047074

"Wolf and you are forgetting one thing though.........................
GPU rendering is getting more and more advanced and that technolgy is becoming available for everyone. We're getting close to where we don't need an expensive rendering engine for animations anymore."

I am well aware of all of the advances in rendering technology.
How many have SM implemented directly inside of poser??
( unbiased,GPU,CPU)
Blender has done so with its free program

Actually we never needed "Expensive" rendering engines for animation per say.

But if you have read any of the threads here
from people who have tried to use poser pro 2012's IDL to render animations you already know that the latest version of poser is not really prepared for lengthy animation with quality any higher than Open GL screen renders from with poser itself.

"So, wake up..... it's 2013, we're not living in the 90's anymore.
"

Indeed we are not
but posers IK system*( such as it is )* and its graph curve Editor clearly still remains in the 1990's.

yes it is nice to be able to quickly import some raw mocap with feet ice gliding all over the floor and figures gliding down stairs wells with ZERO foot contact with the stairs as seen in the "red verses blue video"

But there are times when you May have to be more precise at a paying clients direction and that is when you see how vestigial posers character animation CREATION/EDITING tools remain.

I speak from painful experience with this.

Cheers
 



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  rokket    ( ) ( posted at 5:57AM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047077

Quote - yes it is nice to be able to quickly import some raw mocap with feet ice gliding all over the floor and figures gliding down stairs wells with ZERO foot contact with the stairs as seen in the "red verses blue video"

I saw all of that, and I saw the effects of IDL rendering with the flickering shadows, and the fact that the characters were all assuming SWAT stances, but to me it didn't matter.  I engaged myself in the story, and the animation was good enough not to dislodge me from it.

But it was the story that carried the day.

The animation wasn't perfect by any means, but I watched the entire 10th season of Red vs Blue because the story hooked me.

Combine that with a high end studio with a warehouse full of dedicated render engines, this thing could rock.

If I had a nickle for ever time a woman told me to get lost, I could buy Manhattan.


  Saxon3d    ( ) ( posted at 6:32AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 6:33AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047083

I sorta agree with you Rokket, but how many of us can afford "a high end studio with a warehouse full of dedicated render engines", I love Poser, always have, but it has its' limitations. The average hobby modeller or animator wants to be able to create seamless animations of a decent quality without having to step outside Poser to create it.

IMHO Firefly doesn't cut it, If I wanted to render preview quality animations I could do so all day long pretty quickly in Poser, but if you want to step up a notch to higher quality Firefly will drive you to the edge of insanity. My only hope is that in the new Poser the render engine improves as much as everything else has. I'd love to be able to create all my workflow in Poser, not talking P/W here, just quality anims, without rendering scenes in 3rd party programs.

Not Poser bashing here, like I said I love the proggie, but please SM listen to what people say, we don't all have the resources that these guys have , many of us don't even have the capacity to use Octane due to system limitations or cost implications.  It is sorta soul destroying to export your scenes to 3rd party apps to get the render times and quality that you can't get in Poser.


  aeilkema    ( ) ( posted at 7:39AM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047091

Quote - But if you have read any of the threads here from people who have tried to use poser pro 2012's IDL to render animations you already know that the latest version of poser is not really prepared for lengthy animation with quality any higher than Open GL screen renders from with poser itself.

 

I compelely disagree with your statement. I've read those, but we all know that between IDL and OpenGL we actually do have quite a number of good options available to render lengthy animations at reaonably speed. The problem is that we keep forgetting that IDL isn't a solution or a must for everything we do with poser. The other light systems in Poser have seen improvements as well, but render at good speed, so why not use them? You don't have to use IDL in Poser, you can ignore it and still get good quality in renders with other lights. for animation I wouldn't even consider IDL, and if I want WAY better quality then OpenGL, I've still got plenty of options that will give me good render quality with acceptable rendering times.

 

Besides, OpenGL has improved a lot in Poser and if you've got a good graphics card (even a half decent one as I have), you can boost your quality a hundred times from what it used to be before Poser Pro 2012. Most people seem to have forgotten that you can set up your OpenGL differently then it used to be, it's not on by default, but if you switch it on.... boy a world of difference from what it used to be.

Artwork and 3DToons items, create the perfect place for you toon and other figures!

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/index.php?vendor=23722

Due to the childish TOS changes, I'm not allowed to link to my other products outside of Rendo anymore :(

Food for thought.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYZw0dfLmLk


  carodan    ( ) ( posted at 7:39AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 7:43AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047092

I'm kinda with Rokket here - particularly if you lack financial resources. Trust in the core strength of your ideas or narrative (if you can't, focus on making that aspect stronger). Work with the limitations of the app & explore different stylistic approaches to abstracting materials & lighting for faster, different looking renders.

Poser is as valid and effective a tool as a stick of charcoal for getting an idea across (I've seen plenty of charcoal drawings that have rocked my world).

If your narritive absolutely relies on a more realistic aesthetic, you'll have those problems that require different levels of resoursefulness. But I think it's a useful question to ask, how perfect (or realistic) your work needs to be.

We tend to want what are considered 'the best tools for the job' - but the best tools right now are always the ones you actually have access to (financially or otherwise).

 

PoserPro2014(Sr4), Win7 x64, display units set to inches.

                                      www.danielroseartnew.weebly.com



  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 10:17AM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047129

"The problem is that we keep forgetting that IDL isn't a solution or a must for everything we do with poser."

No it is not
I agree

"Besides, OpenGL has improved a lot in Poser and if you've got a good graphics card (even a half decent one as I have), you can boost your quality a hundred times from what it used to be before Poser Pro 2012. Most people seem to have forgotten that you can set up your OpenGL differently then it used to be, it's not on by default, but if you switch it on.... boy a world of difference from what it used to be."

Yes the OGL display has greatly improved
But here lies the  irony IMHO:

you rightly admonished people to stop"living in the 1990's"
yet when we talk about lengthy animation projects in poser proper
such as red VS Blue project,

All we see is what poser was doing in the 1990's:
Importing BVH mocap
Single mesh custom low res figures
( where are the conformers or the weight mapped Ryan ,Alison Et al??)
NONE of the high promoted features of the "pro" version of poser"
Dynamic cloth
Dynamic hair
Sub Surface scattering
or IDL/IBL.
or even point lights

All Which if implemented would choke even the most highly specced beast machine into utter submission for a lengthy animation project to be rendered inside of poser.

"but how many of us can afford "a high end studio with a warehouse full of dedicated render engines", I love Poser, always have, but it has its' limitations. The average hobby modeller or animator wants to be able to create seamless animations of a decent quality without having to step outside Poser to create it.

IMHO Firefly doesn't cut it, If I wanted to render preview quality animations I could do so all day long pretty quickly in Poser, but if you want to step up a notch to higher quality Firefly will drive you to the edge of insanity"

Agreed

 

 

Cheers



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 11:35AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 11:38AM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047152

Attached Link: Basic Principles of 3D Animation

FWIW, both the RvB, RWBY White/Red and The Drop all use an intense amount of hand keyframed animation, in combination with custom, not off the shelf BVH. That's the magic. Keyframing is where the brilliance comes in with all these samples, and there's a ton of it in all the samples, using Poser's graph and keyframing tools. Apparently, they do work. There's also liberal use of dynamic cloth in the RWBY samples.

Wolf, seriously, produce some animation as good as any of the samples I've included and I'll promote the living daylights out of it. Maybe you're creating the next Life of Pi, hence the need for uber realism, I don't know; but honestly after looking at your work, I'd suggest mastering the basic 12 steps of good animation. The tools are irrelevant if you can master those steps. Start simple, create a stellar story and help us help you to inspire more folks to do animation in Poser. That would help move Poser and its animation capabilites further forward than laundry lists of why you can't.


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 12:12PM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 12:18PM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047167

"Wolf, seriously, produce some animation as good as any of the samples I've included and I'll promote the living daylights out of it."

Hi thanks  for the offer but I dont Need you or SM to "promote the hell out" out of any of my work as "poser created etc"
it would be Decietful. I use poser content as part a Larger pipeline Dominated by C4D and Vray.

"but honestly after looking at your work, I'd suggest mastering the basic 12 steps of good animation."

Well my paying clients And My IMDB listing
for my recent Paid character work in this well received indy  film  festival project suggests otherwise
http://skateveer.com/

"The tools are irrelevant if you can master those steps. Start simple, create a stellar story and inspire more folks to do animation in Poser. That would help move Poser and its animation capabilites further forward than laundry lists of why you can't."

It not a an Issue of why I cant it is not even an issue of posers Current CA tool set (limited though it may be)
in fact to be quite honest with you Steve, poser& Daz's ability to retarget Character motion is actually SUPERIOR to my  $3500 Dollar "high end" program( C4D) ... no exaggeration

honesty I wont even bore you all with the tedious bone renaming processes it takes to get some character motion from one rig and apply it to another in C4D.
and poser ( with paul's  affordable physics plugin), creates AMAZING ragdoll simulation on demand that  leaves the C4D users over at CG society.org in frustrated& Embarrassed silence.

But the fact remains that the "pro   features" you people are touting in poser pro 2012 are only usable for stills
and your  All or nothing IK System remains BROKEN

So go ahead get testy, Smarmy and throw insults at my work all you want but it is the truth and everyone here knows it sir.

your render engine is NOT really designed for animation renders with any of the aforementioned "pro" features enabled.

Cheers



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  thinkcooper    ( ) ( posted at 12:40PM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047176

Quote - So go ahead get testy, Smarmy and throw insults at my work all you want but it is the truth and everyone here knows it sir.

I've googled Skateveer several times over the past since you've been listing it in your signature, hoping to see some cool animation. (Poser with C4D? That'd be awesome. I'll promote it however I can) But so far I haven't come across any. Maybe some of the forum members with better google-fu can find something. I would honestly love to help the project.

I'll let you get the last word Wolf, cause I'm gonna walk away from this dialog with you. If you're mistranslating some honest coaching as smarmy insults, I'm afraid there's not much more I can add.

The floor is yours.


  Saxon3d    ( ) ( posted at 12:58PM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047181

In the hope that we can keep this thread alive without coming to blows, as someone who is really interested in getting the best out of poser animation, can we please please please get back to the OP and the point of it, Poser gets hammered in the threads when we mention animation generally, i am guilty as charged of having my moan about the time it takes to render quality pngs. But if there are ways of achieving the fine line between quality and speed, then that's a discussion I want to continue. Just saying n not taking sides...............


  wolf359    ( ) ( posted at 2:26PM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 2:28PM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047213

"I've googled Skateveer several times over the past since you've been listing it in your signature, hoping to see some cool animation."

you wont see it in the trailers its a 45 second on screen clip of a Video Skateboarding game  I  was hired to Fake  for a scene in the movie where the the tony Hawk Wannabe Star is testing his new  Game title based on him

"'ll let you get the last word Wolf"

Ok : Steve Cooper is an Decent Chap who clearly works hard for his Company!!!.
 Apologies if my being the proverbial "Sqeaking wheel" Offended him in any Way.

Cheers



MY WEBSITE

MY IMDB LISTING




  monkeycloud    ( ) ( posted at 3:13PM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047228

I really need to spend some more time with my copy of PoserPhysics...

In general I'm feeling pretty inspired after this thread... and the other thread about Anomaly...

Once I finish the "Rocket Bairn" outfit / character, that I'm working on currently, for the toon figure Pippin, I will have to try some animation with it... ;)


  monkeycloud    ( ) ( posted at 5:07PM Sun, 03 March 2013 · edited on 5:12PM Sun, 03 March 2013 · @4047265

My one attempt at making some animation in Poser, to date ;)

http://vimeo.com/60965867 (contains mild, "fantasy horror"...?)

It was a while back. Didn't use IDL, but did use SSS, if I remember right. It wasn't too painful to render this one brief snippet in Firefly though, as far as I recall...

...I know my animation skills still leave a litte to be desired, sure... he he.


  Saxon3d    ( ) ( posted at 5:25PM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047271

chris that is a really good start, well done, maybe we should have an in forum animation film club, with the condition that everything is created and rendered in poser, the wackier the better..........


  monkeycloud    ( ) ( posted at 5:38PM Sun, 03 March 2013  · @4047275

Quote - chris that is a really good start, well done, maybe we should have an in forum animation film club, with the condition that everything is created and rendered in poser, the wackier the better..........

I like the sound of that ;)

It would definitely be nice to see some more focus on animation within the forum I reckon...

Course my production timelines can be somewhat longwinded... even doing still imagery. Mostly due to the fact I only get to play with this stuff now when the family is asleep, for as long as I can keep my eyes open :)

So my doing animation is going to be even more longwinded, in terms of timescales! He he...


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