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Poser F.A.Q (Updated: 2015 Aug 18 8:24 pm)


 Subject: Subdivision in Poser ... continued

Snarlygribbly opened this issue on Aug 29, 2012 · 71 posts

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  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 8:31PM Wed, 29 August 2012 


 

I've updated the script to include the rendering option people asked for.

NB: Normally when I develop a new script I put together a small team of beta testers to thrash out the bugs. In the interest  of expediency, I have not done so for this addon.

You are, effectively, the beta testers.

So play carefully with it - it has not been thoroughly tested by any means!

New features:

This version of the script has an option to initiate a render. The render can be a normal one ('Render' button) or a background render ('BG' button).

When it renders, it will always leave any scene objects that have already been SubD'd alone, but will also SubD any other objects that are 'ticked' on its internal list of objects that should be SubD'd

You can edit the list using the '...' button.

If you save the scene, the edited list will be saved with the scene file and automatically restored next time the scene is loaded :-)

Finally, the option to 'Undo all after render' just simulates using the 'Undo All' button after the render. NB: This means that everything will be UnSubD'd, not just the things on the list.

Bug reports and suggestions for improvements are welcome in this thread.

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

  vilters () ( posted at 8:48PM Wed, 29 August 2012  · @3980048

Thank you Sir.

Man, you are good...
testing tomorrow, it is 3AM here now.
Waaaay past bed time.

Thanks, and have a nice day.
Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


  Ragtopjohnny () ( posted at 9:00PM Wed, 29 August 2012  · @3980054

Where do I find this?  😄 :blink:

 

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  SamTherapy () ( posted at 9:05PM Wed, 29 August 2012  · @3980057

@ John - Check the link in Snarly's sig line.  I haven't looked but that's the most likely place.

@ Snarly - I'm guessing this won't work in P6. 

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  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 9:12PM Wed, 29 August 2012  · @3980058

Quote - @ John - Check the link in Snarly's sig line.  I haven't looked but that's the most likely place.

@ Snarly - I'm guessing this won't work in P6. 

My sig is indeed the right place to look. For the benefit of those who have sigs turned off: http://3d.snarlygribbly.org

This addon is P9 SR3 only, but I could make something similar for P6, without some of the bells and whistles that the new addon functions bring.

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

  Ragtopjohnny () ( posted at 9:15PM Wed, 29 August 2012  · @3980060

Thanks Snarly --- it will work in Poser Pro 2012 as well I take it with your sig?  😄 

Looking forward to trying it......

 

Poser Pro 2012/3DS Max 2013/Adobe Photoshop Elements 10/Zbrush/

PC: HP Z820 Workstation, 3.30 ghz 8 core Intel Processor, 2gig nvidia Quadro, 16 gig of Ram and 2TB Hard Drive.

 


  Miss Nancy () ( posted at 9:54PM Wed, 29 August 2012  · @3980066

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


 

SG, this is what I got (V2 Lo-Res).  might be using it wrong, e.g. didn't manually export and then re-import the figure as obj.   opened add-ons menu, loaded add-on, then hit "subdivide".



  Miss Nancy () ( posted at 10:31PM Wed, 29 August 2012 · edited on 10:35PM Wed, 29 August 2012 · @3980083

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


 

doing steps 1,2,3, 7 and 8 manually, it seems to work (OS X), however "render" continues to give the error screen in previous msg, possibly because I'm still in wireframe display.  will try that next.  here are the instructions I used:

    ?    
    ?    Select figure
    ?    
    ?    Export figure as OBJ to temporary location, posed and morphed
    ?    
    ?    Import temporary OBJ as intermediate prop
    ?    
    ?    Rip a load of data out of the intermediate prop (script)
    ?    
    ?    Use that data to construct a new geometry, subdivided (script)
    ?    
    ?    Recreate the original material zones and assign polys appropriately (script)
    ?    
    ?    Delete intermediate prop
    ?    
    ?    Hide the original figure
    ?
at first it would hide the hair prop and spear when figure was hidden, but now it's retaining the hair prop with the subdivided obj.



  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 3:01AM Thu, 30 August 2012  · @3980129


Oops :-)

As mysticeagle is quick to point out: I am a doodle!

Anyway, I've attached a fixed version ...

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

  EnglishBob () ( posted at 5:49AM Thu, 30 August 2012  · @3980153

Quote - I could make something similar for P6, without some of the bells and whistles that the new addon functions bring.

That would be cool - but don't dilute your effort too much. I often subdivide dynamic clothing post-simulation and it would be handy to do this within Poser, as opposed to my current export-subdivide-import workflow. I have P6 and P7 available and would be happy to help test. 

In connection with the above, do you think it would be easy to spawn a "shell" from a single-sided mesh? (My modeller calls it 'shell' - not sure what the correct term is, but it's basically adding thickness to a single sided object.) I'm doing that externally, too, to give thickness to simple dynamic clothing, but it would be great to be able to shell and subdivide all within Poser.


Note: the forum ebots haven't worked for months, meaning I have to manually check threads where I remember posting or subscribing. If I appear to be ignoring you, it's probably just poor memory on my part. :)

I no longer trust Renderosity to host my images or tutorials, or to provide links to my freestuff. You can still find all that stuff atĀ Morphography.


  basicwiz () ( posted at 3:27PM Thu, 30 August 2012  · @3980399

[thread made sticky by basicwiz]


  Miss Nancy () ( posted at 3:47PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · edited on 3:47PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · @3980417

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


 

here's what I get with the latest version.  apparently the elusive L drive is still needed.  however, hitting the poser render button (or using textured preview) gives an untextured subdivided obj.  in this case it was a toon texture (procedural).



  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 3:57PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · edited on 4:01PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · @3980424

That's not the latest version Miss Nancy. That's exactly the same error as before.

The zip has v1.2.1 in it, which fixes that error.

Somehow Poser hasn't picked up the new version ...

 

ps: When compiled Python scripts crash they report the path in which they were compiled, not the path from which theyre are being run. 

 

If necessary, delete the init.pyc from the Subdivider folder altogether.

Then run Poser - there will be an error message saying that it is missing.

Close Poser

Then extract the script from the zip and put it in the Subdivider folder

Rerun Poser - it should pick up v1.2.1 this time.

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

  face_off () ( posted at 5:23PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · edited on 5:24PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · @3980468

This is brilliant!

I use ZBrush to subd, however that comes with all sort of material grouping issues.  This script does it very nicely.

In summary.....poser figure, export and reimport as a prop, subd with this script, use GoZ to tweak the mesh.  I love it!

Snarly, would it be possible to only subd the polys for a specific material?  ie. Often it is useful to subd the figures skin, but not there eyes, etc.

Creator of PoserPhysics
Creator of OctaneRender for Poser
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  Miss Nancy () ( posted at 5:43PM Thu, 30 August 2012  · @3980482


 

o.k., sorry about my confusion there.  I had downloaded 1.2.1 earlier and dragged it to the emptied Subdivider folder, yet poser was still calling 1.2.0 from memory or from the trash somehow.  only when I deleted the Subdivider folder itself and replaced it (OS X), complete with its 1.2.1 script, did poser load 1.2.1.  now it seems to subdivide quickly, to transfer UVmapping correctly and the render button works as desired.



  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 6:00PM Thu, 30 August 2012  · @3980503

Quote - In summary.....poser figure, export and reimport as a prop, subd with this script, use GoZ to tweak the mesh.  I love it!

Thank you :-)

You shouldn't need to export/import - the script does that for you. The description of the steps I gave was just to explain what the script tries to do, rather than what the user needs to do. Just select the actor and hit subdivide :-)

Quote - Snarly, would it be possible to only subd the polys for a specific material?  ie. Often it is useful to subd the figures skin, but not there eyes, etc.

The answer I've given to others who asked about this in PMs was that I didn't think there was much mileage in it because it would introduce seams where the SubD'd material met the unSubD'd material. However, I'll think about this and see what can be done because it would be useful if it were possible.

I've run out of coding time for a little while now due to real work impinging upon my life, and then I've promised to deliver on a few other scripting projects too, but I'll be coming back to this as soon as I can.

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

  face_off () ( posted at 7:08PM Thu, 30 August 2012  · @3980547

The answer I've given to others who asked about this in PMs was that I didn't think there was much mileage in it because it would introduce seams where the SubD'd material met the unSubD'd material.

Indeed.  The same happens in ZB.  The workaround I use is to merge all the skin materials into one, with each different texturemap material re'UV'd to point to a different quadrant in a new merge texturemap (ie. face in the top left quarter, arms in the top right, body bottom left, legs bottom right).  Then all the skin materials are merged in the figure, and you can safely subd without tears.  I have a script which does the UV adjustment and merging of the materials if anyone needs it (it currently only recognises Alyson and Antonia).

So for me, there would be a lot of mileage :-)  But I understand it is probably outside the scope of what you have time for.

Creator of PoserPhysics
Creator of OctaneRender for Poser
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  Miss Nancy () ( posted at 9:23PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · edited on 9:37PM Thu, 30 August 2012 · @3980607


 

after watching clint eastwood's speech, in this one, I skipped all the manual steps and let the script do everything.  just selected "2", clicked subdivide, then clicked "render", and it seems to work fast.  upon returning to preview screen, the subdivision_object and intermediate obj were gone.  in addition, the "undo", "undo all" and "bg" buttons work as advertised.  didn't try the "..." button yet.



  monkeycloud () ( posted at 3:29AM Fri, 31 August 2012  · @3980695

Truly awesome work... thanks again Snarly. I'll look forward to having a play around with this some more later :bigcheesygrin:


  bagoas () ( posted at 6:06PM Fri, 31 August 2012  · @3981024

Thank you Mister Snarly. This will be another Poser must-have from your hands no doubt.  


  Winterclaw () ( posted at 11:29PM Fri, 31 August 2012  · @3981145

Silly question: which form of subdivision did you use?

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: the brilliantest blog ever written by me

 

(PP12 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)


  vilters () ( posted at 7:02AM Sat, 01 September 2012  · @3981255

I did some back to back testrenders between Posers Smoothing option(crease angle set to 180°)  and Snarly's SubD script.

What was most noticable was the expanding and shrinking effect of both.

While Posers Smoothing option "expands" the figure, SubD "shrinks" the figure.

I took the Poser4 Lo Res figures as my testobjects, and the effect was far bigger then I initially expected.

The expanding-shrinking will become less noticable with higher poly count figures.

But ? So?

When using one of them, Smoothing or SubD, the clothing, hair and props have to be build for that.

Happy Posering, Tony

Poser 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, P8 and PPro2010, P9 and PP2012, P10 and PP2014 Game Dev
"Do not drive faster then your angel can fly"!


  Winterclaw () ( posted at 10:52AM Sat, 01 September 2012  · @3981338

Vilters, that sounds to me like two different forms of smoothing are being used, which is why I asked.

WARK!

Thus Spoketh Winterclaw: the brilliantest blog ever written by me

 

(PP12 SR3, on 64 bit Win 7, poser units are inches.)


  bagoas () ( posted at 1:07PM Sat, 01 September 2012 · edited on 1:13PM Sat, 01 September 2012 · @3981390

Vitters,

yes, the Catmull-Clark type subdivision the script uses makes convex surfaces shrink and concave surfaces grow. There is a lemma with that name in Wikipedia which shows the steps it takes. What it boils down is that a new point that is generated in the the centrod of the facet remains at the same position, but the original vertices are replaced by others located more towards the adjacent vertices. 

The magnitude of the change depends on the size of the facets and the angle the facet has with its neighbours. Low-density meshes suffer more drift than high density meshes.

Poser smoothing brings pushes the centroid of the facets in the direction of the curvature but keeps the vertices at the same position.


  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 6:07AM Sun, 02 September 2012  · @3981754


 

I'd be interested in any bug reports if you come across oddities when subdividing.

In the attached pic the Alyson_Skeleton figure has developed a strange artifact - a long thin piece of geometry - after subdividing 1 level.

Other skeletons that come with Poser pro 2012 exhibit the same artifact, presumably because they are based upon the same geometry.

Let me know if you discover any other instances of this?

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

  hborre () ( posted at 4:10PM Sun, 02 September 2012  · @3982017

Has there been any reports of any one subD'ing structures or buildings?  Or anything with large undivided areas?  The 2 times I tried it, instant exploding mesh.  Very interesting effect.


  bagoas () ( posted at 4:29AM Mon, 03 September 2012  · @3982254

It may have to do with meshes that are un-evenly distributed. If a large undivided surface and a narrow one are adjacent to each-other, so the length of the edges adjacent to a vertex are very different in magnitude, I can imagine this will blow the process, yes.

Of course buildings usually have sharp corners, and subd-ing those would destroy the definition. If you look for ways to round the edges, you should use other tools. Subd-ing a sharp corner rives a rounding withn a radius comparable to the size of the adjacent facet or greater.  


  monkeycloud () ( posted at 4:34AM Mon, 03 September 2012  · @3982256

Does "bevelling" or "pinching" of the edges on a model, that is meant to have sharp edges / corners, counteract subd rounding of the sharp edge /corners at all?


  hborre () ( posted at 9:23AM Mon, 03 September 2012  · @3982350

So, to my understanding,  closely spaced vertices for organic models are fine, large undivided regions, a no-no atm.


  bagoas () ( posted at 9:51AM Mon, 03 September 2012  · @3982364

Quote - So, to my understanding,  closely spaced vertices for organic models are fine, large undivided regions, a no-no atm.

It has nothing to do with the stage of development. It is a consequence of the method. Catmull-Clark subdivision steps turn a cube into a so-many-hedron (somebody will have done the math) and successive steps result into more-and-more-hedrons that more and more look like a sphere. If you want to subdivide an 8-vertex, 12 edges, 6 facets cube into a 26 vertex, 48  edges, 24 facets representation, that still looks like a cube, you need to use other methods. 

The Catmull-Clark subdivision method assumes that the intention is to decribe a smooth surface; with an identical vertex normal for all facets adjacent to the vertex. For a cube of course, all 8 corner vertices have 3 normals associated with them: one for each adjacent side of the cube.  


  Snarlygribbly () ( posted at 10:19AM Mon, 03 September 2012  · @3982384


 

Bagoas explanation is correct. CC subdivision does not suit all objects. That can be seen by subdividing the Poser Pro 2012 arch primitive.

Snarly's freebies @ Snarly's Space
I use Poser Pro 2014, my units are inches

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