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Poser F.A.Q (Updated: 2019 Jan 31 1:28 pm)


 Subject: Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics

durf opened this issue on Jul 20, 2012 · 114 posts

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  durf    ( ) ( posted at 4:09AM Fri, 20 July 2012 

Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics.

how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser?

these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.

where are these dynamics in poser world?


  JimTS    ( ) ( posted at 4:39AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960280

You've been around for ten years and haven't found an app that you can import Poser content and apply your softbody dynamics to. What's with you for asking?

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
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 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
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So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?


  operaguy    ( ) ( posted at 9:54AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960346

as a long time Poser person who would dearly love true soft-body dynamics, I agree with any inquiry, request or work-around.

However, an "attitude" is not really welcome.

This program started out as a simple way to pose a stick model in 3d. It is now magnificent, for $400 or on sale.

So be more respectful, OP.

 

::::: Opera :::::


  PhilC    ( ) ( posted at 10:05AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960349

Some use the cloth room to good effect.


  MistyLaraCarrara    ( ) ( posted at 11:01AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960375

jigglenamics?

danglienamics?



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  basicwiz    ( ) ( posted at 11:02AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960376

PhilC,

Your comment interests me a great deal. Can you elaborate on how you do it?


  vilters    ( ) ( posted at 11:05AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960378

Or? Can be done with a magnet.

Load your figure.
Load a magnet on the group you want to squeeze.

=> You can add more groups if needed.

Center the magnet on the wall (or floor) in the area to be touched.
=> PhilC has very good tutorials on magnets on his site.

Make the MagZone VERY LARGE in X and Y; Say 5000
Make the MagZone only 1 to 2 deep in Z.
Put the magnet just forward of the MagBase in Z .
The MagZone should be HALF in front of the wall in Z. 

The MagZone should now be a huge circle paralell to the wall. But very small in Z, say about 1 to 2  inch.

Leave all as is.

When your figure comes close to the wall (or floor) the selected groups will come under the influence of the Magnet as she comes in the  MagZone.

And breasts will squeeze.

Takes some experimenting, but doable.

The Magnet and the MagnetZone do nothing to your figure, unless the selected groups come under the influence of the MagZone.

Att: Positioning is very sensitive, and YES, you can go too far and overrun the MagnetZone.

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  SamTherapy    ( ) ( posted at 11:14AM Fri, 20 July 2012 · edited on 11:14AM Fri, 20 July 2012 · @3960382

Quote - Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics.

how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser?

these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.

where are these dynamics in poser world?

Simple answer to your first question:

Poser is an entry level, hobbyist app at a very low price.  It can do remarkable things for the money and exceeds its original remit by several orders of magnitude.

As for games, they're optimized for a particular set of systems and generally use low poly models.  Poser has to work with high density meshes on a wide variety of systems.

Bottom line is, pay more money for a higher end app and you'll get all the soft body dynamics you want.  At Poser's price point, it'll be a while in coming. 

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  Fremmen    ( ) ( posted at 11:39AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960395

Yes PhilC, I am also curious how you can use the cloth room to create this affect.


  PhilC    ( ) ( posted at 11:44AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960397

Just clothify the part in question and set up a small animation to allow it to bump against something.

Although that could be made to work I'm a great believer in the KISS principle so if I needed to do this I would almost certainly use magnets.


  Gremalkyn    ( ) ( posted at 11:44AM Fri, 20 July 2012 · edited on 11:55AM Fri, 20 July 2012 · @3960398

Quote - Yes PhilC, I am also curious how you can use the cloth room to create this affect.

I read somewhere that bodies / body parts can be clothified as a prop, so I also would like to learn how to do it.

(Cross post with Phil C.)


  basicwiz    ( ) ( posted at 11:45AM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960399

I'll give it a try. I'm with the rest of the group. So far, magnets have given me the most realistic effects.


  Fremmen    ( ) ( posted at 12:05PM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960406

One more question PhilC out of the three choices

1 object vertex against cloth polygon

2 object polygon against cloth polygon

3 cloth self colision

 

which one would you want to select, for the part in question?

Thanks


  PhilC    ( ) ( posted at 12:12PM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960409

I usually start with just cloth self colision then only add the other options if required.


  moogal    ( ) ( posted at 8:11PM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960594

Quote - You've been around for ten years and haven't found an app that you can import Poser content and apply your softbody dynamics to. What's with you for asking?

Well, I haven't.  I'd want it to import without losing morphs, have support for dynamic hair and cloth, while letting me add soft bodies to existing figures without re-rigging or weight mapping.  Are there really that many to choose from?  Are any under $1000?  I know neither blender or Carrara yet meet the above criteria. 


  moogal    ( ) ( posted at 8:42PM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960603

Quote - Simple answer to your first question:

Poser is an entry level, hobbyist app at a very low price.  It can do remarkable things for the money and exceeds its original remit by several orders of magnitude.

OK, then how about Poser Professional, which lists for $499.  Surely a professional program that exists solely to render figures should have some kind of soft body physics by now.  Why is everyone so quick to defend this glaring omission of the program?

Quote - As for games, they're optimized for a particular set of systems and generally use low poly models.  Poser has to work with high density meshes on a wide variety of systems.

Bottom line is, pay more money for a higher end app and you'll get all the soft body dynamics you want.  At Poser's price point, it'll be a while in coming. 

It already has been a while.  They could just do what Daz did with Carrara, and use bullet.  They could use a spring solver like Reallusion did with iClone...

Then again, I'm equally surprised no one from the community has tackled it either.  I'd hoped PoserPhysics would have provided a way, perhaps using magnets.  There are jello-magnets, but that limits motion to the morphs a part has (and I've never really had much luck with that either).

I really hope there's some attempt at providing a solution in the next version, I can't think of anything more important left to add at this point.

 

 


  MistyLaraCarrara    ( ) ( posted at 10:36PM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960630

jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser. not even jiggly testicals.



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  imagination304    ( ) ( posted at 10:37PM Fri, 20 July 2012  · @3960634

(bookmarked)


  basicwiz    ( ) ( posted at 11:40PM Fri, 20 July 2012 · edited on 11:40PM Fri, 20 July 2012 · @3960655

Quote - jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser. not even jiggly testicals.

EEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW... 


  lesbentley    ( ) ( posted at 9:56AM Sat, 21 July 2012 · edited on 10:05AM Sat, 21 July 2012 · @3960757

Quote - jiggly breasts aren't the top things i'd like to find in next poser.

??? Huh ??? :huh:

What could be better than jiggly breasts? :drool: P.S.
I'm not joking, or being ironic. I'm serious!


  Gremalkyn    ( ) ( posted at 12:37PM Sat, 21 July 2012  · @3960791

Realistsic gravtiy based movements for animation purposes would be nice as a standard feature.  Not sure how it would work for a static shot unless we just click "Use Gravity" in the options list and it auto adjusts like it does for "Drop to Floor."


  face_off    ( ) ( posted at 4:42PM Sat, 21 July 2012  · @3960900

I have a very early version (more a "proof of concept" really) of a soft body dynamics simulation system up and running.  In general,  soft body dynamics will apply to a prop (ie.  a "Square Hi-Res" can be simulated as a ship's sail, or a "Ball Hi-Res" can be simulated as a "squishy" ball, box will deform when it hits the ground).  Soft body dynamics does not easily translate to a figure, since a figure is made up of many polygon groups, so it is not a simply solution to put the whole geometry into the simulator. 

So in summary, I don't think "Soft body dynamics" is really the solution to jiggly bits on figures - it solves other needs.

IMO, you would be far better off simply keyframe animating this type of effect for figures.

Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics.  how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser?  these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.

Could you pls provide a link showing a game which implements soft body breast effects?



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  lmckenzie    ( ) ( posted at 12:02AM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961029

Frankly, I didn't see anything in the text or the tone of the question that merited the reaction, but whatever. It's not exactly like saying, 'The King is a fink!' I agree with Moogal that given the nature of the program, SBD is would be something that I would have expected (and certainly hoped for) by now. There are a lot of things besides bobbing boobs that it would be useful for with figures interacting with objects or other figures. IMO, we're talking more automatic transmission here than heated llama skin seats; of course, everyone has their priorities. It may be a big technical challenge or they may not see it as a big priority. People seem to see it as a animation oriented feature which may explain it. Personally, I see the ability to easily have supple, yielding flesh as a big plus for still images as well and the ability to achieve it without setting up magnets etc. would be very nice.

"Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H. L. Mencken

  operaguy    ( ) ( posted at 1:54AM Sun, 22 July 2012 · edited on 2:01AM Sun, 22 July 2012 · @3961036

there is zero need for a full physics softbody colllision/deformation simulation in poser -- for stills. you have everything needed now.

the demand for such an advanced capability for stills is absurd.

you can make andy smash against a wall and flatten himself, with the wall receiving the impression of his body. you create a still of a fist squashing another character's face with both deforming. and yes, you can pose a shot of two girls' breasts squishing against each other.

and yes, the OP has a disagreable attitude.

for animation of jigging body parts? please go to renderotica. find stimuli. ask him how he does it.

salute to face-off, who has already contributed quite a history to the improvement of Poser over many years, both in early quasi-SSS endeavors and for a full hardbody collision/ragdoll implementation for Poser, for even thinking through what it would take to get quasi-SB in Poser.

::::: Opera :::::

 

{edited to add for reasonable people: I am pretty sure stimuli hand keys his animation loops}

{edited again to second face-off's request for the complaintant to cite a game that contains softbody collision/deformation/rebound in realtime (not cut scenes) on the fly}

 

 


  Gremalkyn    ( ) ( posted at 10:02AM Sun, 22 July 2012 · edited on 10:02AM Sun, 22 July 2012 · @3961135

Quote - ***Soft Body breast effects without handlers, morphs - pure softbody dynamics.  how can it be, that we still not can do this in poser?  these dynamics are possible in all the games of today.***Could you pls provide a link showing a game which implements soft body breast effects?

I am not sure exactly what this means, but both Rumble Roses games and Dead or Alive Xrteme 2 have rather bouncy bits on all of the females (all are all-female games).  However, when pressed against an object, such as the wrestling mat or face down on a towel by the pool, I do not see the breasts flattening or any obvious "poke through" where parts of them simply disappear.  Probably just Collisions On and the rest of the toon adjusts when those polys impact the surface.


  shvrdavid    ( ) ( posted at 1:29PM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961195

...I'm equally surprised no one from the community has tackled it either...

There really is not that much call for animation stuff in Poser. I have made everything that I use for them myself.

Just about anything that can be done in a high end app (softbody wise) can be faked in Poser with either magnets and the cloth room, or a combination of both.

https://forum.smithmicro.com


  moogal    ( ) ( posted at 1:55PM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961203

Sounds like we're talking about more than one thing here...

True soft-body effects would allow parts to deform on collision. That would be great to have, though I understand why it is no small request.

The games which were mentioned (and also the most recent Soul Calibur as well) use what has been termed "jiggle-physics".  I understand if some people think this is a silly feature, but it has been implemented already in games, so it's hard for some of us to accept that it couldn't be done also in Poser.  

IClone has spring solvers, which would be great to have in Poser as they could probably do a large percentage of what people are wanting soft bodies for.

http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/help/iclone3/11_Props/Spring/Spring_Props.htm

But they are not the easiest thing to set up, and I don't believe they can easily be added to a figure within IClone/3DXChange.

Sparrowhawke has a "Jiggles "plug-in for Carrara that would be great to have for Poser.  I'm not sure that such a thing is overkill for still images, as images created with it look much more natural than the same images without it.  Body masses are soft, respond to gravity and react with inertia.  Whether or not I could properly deform a body part with a magnet or morph, it's the gravity and inertia that are the problem.  Could they be keyframed?  I know I'm not good enough at animating to do that over the course of a lengthy animation.  That is precisely the problem we would like to have a solution to.

It's not just breasts, but also bellies, buttocks, antennae, ears, tails, and transmapped hair are difficult to animate without an automated  jiggle or spring.


  shvrdavid    ( ) ( posted at 3:39PM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961245

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.

I guess you have not tried it, you can already do collision deformations, jiggles, etc, in Poser. You just have to set them up manually with what is in the program.

Collison offset here so you can see it. I do not remember which way I did this particular one, but there are 3 ways of doing it. Yes I said 3....

Poser is a low cost program that has come a long way, it can do many things that other "High End" software can do. But it can not do it all. Yet..

I have yet to figure out how to do convincing fluid dynamics, but collisions and jiggles are more than doable.

I would love for Poser to be able to do everything Houdini can do, but I don't think making it cost 10g per machine is what most people want either.

https://forum.smithmicro.com


  operaguy    ( ) ( posted at 3:54PM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961252

  moogal    ( ) ( posted at 6:37PM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961317

Quote - blender = $0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdusMZlBbQ4

 

 

Yes, blender does do soft bodies nicely.  It doesn't import Poser figures as well, unfortunately.

So which program(s) do have soft bodies, import Poser content, have dynamic cloth and hair, and allow soft body effects to be applied to Poser figures without breaking their rigging and/or morphs?  I'm just curious as it's been implied that there are several...


  operaguy    ( ) ( posted at 6:51PM Sun, 22 July 2012  · @3961319

who implied that "there are several?"


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