In my renders that use an AO light set up, I find that I get shadows or dark blotchiness around/on the wireframes of my models... I found that if I use the same light preset without the AO option, it renders fine. I imagine this is something that can be fixed through some setting, but I do not know or have not found which yet...

I have also been getting the same splitting at the seams in Poser like in Daz Studio. Changing my render settings fixed that, but the same is not working for the Poser settings... In Poser the shading rate is already at .2, I wouldnt know what else to adjust...

It is the HDRVFX Pond AO, which is w/ the original Poser Pro content I believe...

...... sorry for the quadruple post =/

Turn off smooth polygons of the prop which has the wireframe problem or turn off smooth polygons completely in the render settings.

and turn off texture filtering in the affected materials (Material Room)

Turning off smooth polygons worked, thanks so much =)

I already had had the texture filtering off, I use SVDL's script for that =)

A few more things I'd like to know w/ regards to the render settings... Should indirect light be checked on, and what about the HDRI optomized output? On or off?

Also, the manual explains that for the depth of field to be enabled, it needs to be checked in the render settings, but I still don't see an option to adjust it through the camera parameters. What am I missing?

HDRI optimized output does not affect rendering. It is a file format in which the HDRI information is saved. To use this information (for postwork) you need an image editor capable of understanding this format.

Depth of field parameters are set in the camera controls. Focus distance controls the focus centre - move the dial and a "target" will appear. fStop controls the area which remains in focus.

IDL controls the lighting of the scene and is a whole chapter by itself. It adds light emitted from the environment. So you need an enclosed space (room or a skydome) to get the light from. You do not need AO for IDL. Search in the forums here to find more info on IDL, there are a lot of threads about it

Leave those settings alone for the moment.  IDL, Indirect Lighting, will disable your light-based AO for your render.  Unless you are interested in rendering a more realistic lighting situation, you may be better off without it. 

Dr. Geep has a discussion and tutorial on how to use DoF.  It is a little more complicated than activating in your render settings.  You need to establish your focuse first within Poser.  Also, you would need to increase your pixel sampling to 10 or above, which will significantly increase your render time.

Thanks a ton for the info, its is greatly appreciated =)

Actually, I am experiemnting and practicing on Lights for a skydome, if that should determine which way to set up anything, please do not hesistate to explain =)

FYI, you don't have to put the black blocks up if you tag your post for nudity ;)

LOL, I don't know these things =P

::: now I see it :::

Thanks... I thought some kid might pop in here and who knows what =/ Then I'm labeled a pornographer or something...

Just what I need =P

For IDL the skydome should be self-lit. You can do this by attaching the sky texture to the Ambient channel or to the ALT-Diffuse channel. Set the normal diffuse channel to 0 but keep the texture attached so it will still show up in preview.

You then need the actual light such as the sun or one (or more) lamps. This depends entirely on the scene and environment you want to create. Switch on Raytraced shadows for these lights and use squared falloff for spots or point lights.

Then turn on rayracing and IDL in the render settings - use at least 1 bounce - and render

Now you will see what IDL will do. After that you probably need to tweak the lights and materials and increase the rendersettings to get the result you want. Experiment until you are satisfied before you increase the rendersettings since rendering might take a long time.

As Wimvdb says, using a skydome or other kind of fully enclosed render environment is pretty key to making IDL/Global Illumination renders look good, you are on the right track.

Thanks SOOOOOOOOOO much =)

I am testing lights and IDL w/ my skydomes "as we speak" while searching thru the forums for info. I must've bookmarked 7 threads on IDL and lighting.

At first I was getting just black renders, but the process is getting better.

How does one set spot lights to squared falloff?!? I couldn't find that option...

Also, I had to connect the sky map to the diffuse, Ambient Color and Alternate Diffuse to set at 0 AND get to show. Is the screencap what you meant?!?

Maybe I have too many lights and can decrease their intensity?!? But is it light adjustmente or settings that need to be fixed =/

Last thought...

When using IDL, if we are using sky domes, can we use an IBL applied to the dome?!? I was experiemnting w/ using the sky maps as lights, but was only getting black renders. Is this because we can't use IBL's w/ IDL, or should I play w/ the lights to find the correct settings for a good render?!?

Too hot on the lights.. (too many). IDL can do this with one light. Even set to 80% or less. I'd turn off all your lights save one "sun" or 2 for "2 suns" if that's the case. Perhaps a second spot set to specular only for surface quality. The rest,, just try it out in the material room. Takes a few seconds. Try a HDR image. Tons free on the net.

No need to connect your image map to both ambient_color and Alt_Diffuse.  But your ambient_color is black, so it does not have any effect whatsoever.  How many lights do you have in your scene.

For the light fall-off. Go to the properties tab of the light. On the bottom there is attenuation - this is now set to constant, you can set it to squared. You can not do this for infinite light

The skydome is OK (no need for both ambient and altdiffuse, one is enough)

In the scene you have way too much light. In this case - as richardson said - one (or two) infinite lights with no square fall-off is what you should start with. Disable all other lights.

No need for IBL here and no need to connect the maps anywhere. See what you get and reduce light intensity of it still too bright. Be sure to use raytraced lights (properties tab) and set the shadow blur to 1.0 or higher

If you want to use Gamma Correction, you have to turn that one on now before fiddling with the lights since you have to do it all over again if you want to use it later.

So much useful info, I can not thank you guys enough =)

I will do as you suggest and post results.

To answer the question, the scene rendered had 3 lights, one IBL Diffuse w/ the sky image, and 2 spot lights. They were at default of 100 intensity. I "was" trying to achieve a light from image effect, but it seems this is not necessary.

As a Carrara user, I can say the adjustment of lighting technique is a bit rough. I try to learn from purchased light sets, but that has not helped much. I have been using Poser for over 12 years, but never like this... I'd grab a figure, and that was pretty much it, rendering and lighting was done in other programs... Each program has its own way, I don't mind learning.

Again, I truly appreciate all the advice and feedback =D

When I try to change the light setting, the only three choices are Constant, Inverse Linear and Inverse Square, I see no Squared Falloff =/

I see where I was going wrong w/ the material on the skydome. As stated, I had the color chip set to black, and the value at 0. When I changed the chip to white and set the value to one, it became visible w/o the need for doubling it in the alterante diffuse channel.

This render uses 3 lights, one infinite and 2 spots, but I'm curious... Would I use an .hdr on an infinite light? I thought those were best used on the IBL Diffuse lights, and even further, can I not replace the .hdr w/ the sky dome image so that the image provides a souce of light?!?

More experiemnting is in order, but the results of the last few edits were amazing and show potential...

I meant inverse square - I shortened it a bit

On the skydome: The diffuse channel's color depends on the light it receives - so it only shows when light hits it. The Alt-diffuse is not depending on light - it always shows the texture. The ambient channel actually emits color. So the last two are "self-lit" and the diffuse channel is not. IDL takes as its light source the skydome. If it is not self-lit it uses only the little light which hits the skydome from other light sources. With the self-lit dome it takes the entire texture as a light source

The HDR image is used with IBL (Image Based Lighting). With IDL (InDirect Light) you don't want the HDR image: The Skydome is providing the light and not the HDR image. Actually: If the HDR image is of the right format, you can use it as the skydome texture - in a real scenario the HDR iimage is a reflection of the skydome.

In the image I still think you have too much light: The figure does not cast a shadow, which it should (or the shadow is barely visible). Experiment with only the infinite light and then add the others one by one

It's all marinating on me, thanks so much =)

Ok, after having exhausted the readings in the threads, and before having explored BB poser file and the VSS "stuff", I tried a few more renders and wanted to know/understand a few more things...

Someone mentioned making a light a specular only light... I don't know how to do this, can someone please explain?

wimvdb, you mentioned that the shadows are not being cast... I guess I know and see the shadow, it's slight, but nonetheless brings me to my 2nd question. What setting are we supposed to adjust for better shadows? In the paramters is a shadow dial, and in the properties there are 2 features for shadows, but between them I wouldn't know which to adjust. Default, they load at 0 and 19, but I don't know what these are measurements of.

Lastly, after reading through the forums and trying to grasp how to best set a scene for IDL, I am still unclear about the render settings, which seem to be more of the outputs result than anything else..... I believe my dome and its materials are set up properly, and am using the lights as suggested (I think), but there was so much debate over render settings, using the d3d render script, and all other things which are just over my head...

This screencap shows the scene w/ the lights and how they are set up. The middle light is an infinite light at 86% intensity, shadow blur of 4 and samples of 19. The 2 spotlights on the side are 68%, 8, 19.....

The "shadow" value tells Poser how dark the shadows are

The shadow samples tells Poser how accurate the shadows must be (adjust this when the shadow is too pixelated)

The Shadow blur defines the sharpness of the shadow - the sun casts usually a sharp shadow and other lights usually less sharp. Value should be between 1.0 (sharp) and 6 or even more (veryt blurred)

Raytraced shadows are more accurate as depthmapped shadows - If you use depthmapped you must adjust the Map size to a much larger size - it depends on the size of the scene. This is not necessary for raytraced shadows - these are always accurate.

The Minimum Shading Rate in Render Settings defines how detailes the shadows are. For draft renders set it to 1.0 and for quality renders to 0.25 or even lower.

In the rendersettings Raytracing must be enabled for Raytraces shadows, IDL, reflections and some other poser features. How many bounces depends on the materials which are used. Think of it as the number of barriers it can penetrate. A mirror reflecting another mirror needs at least 2 bounces otherwise it will not show the second reflection.

The Quality setting for IDL is a single dial for a mix of parameters. If you want to see these or change these, you can use d3d's renderscript: Scripts:Partners:Dimension3D:Render Firefly.  If you run it you will see a set of values for Indirect Lighting. The most important ones are Bounces and Irradiance Cache. The higher they are set, the more accurate the IDL is and the longer the render will take. Start low and increase if necessary

One particular issue with both IBL and IDL illumination is the lack of specular response by scene material.  In those cases, diffuse color are the only channels that respond well.  By adding a specular light, you will bring out better highlights in those material which have active specular values.  To create a specular light, add your light into the scene and then enter the material room for that particular light.  Change the color chip for diffuse to black and lower your light intensity, perhaps 10 - 15%.  This new specular light will not add any further illumination, but it will bring out those specular highlights.

The rendered scene from above shows the image when I "forgot" to set the materials up properly for the sky dome, my apologies for any confusion... The image with this post shows the render correct, w/ the light dome illuminating the scene as it should...

I don't think it's so bad, but understanding what to tweak and when takes time and experience... There are so many varied combinations, I understand that it's not about a right and a wrong way, but still, there are certain guides and rules of thumb that I would at least like to be made aware of...

All of this info is good and gravy, but should I desire to play w/ hdr lighting, that's a totally different subject for Poser. But I'll save that for another day and another thread =P

Ah, didn't understand the specular light part, I was looking for a "switch" of sorts, lol...

Many thanks for the quick responses =)

One more thing....... What do you think of the render settings?!?!? Is that "no good"?!? Are my lights "too hot"?!? Too many, not enough, is it a matter of intensity?!?

Does the size of my sky dome matter at all?!?

ok, thats a few =)

The render settings are always a matter of debate. I always start out low (1 RT bounce, 3 pixel samples, shading rate at 0.5, IDL 1 bounce). When I am satisfied with the scene and lights I lower shadingrate to 0.25 and do area renders to see what the pixel samples should be. If I do not see any difference, I usually stop. RT bounces depends on the materials. If I have complex scenery with defraction I usually go up to 5 (waves, liquids in glass, etc).

So it really depends on the scene and whatever I use, there will be lots of people who disagree. The only reference for me is when I see no difference anymore and how it looks on my Eizo monitor.

If I look at your render settings I would increase Irradiance cache to 50, set bucketsize to 32 (almost always faster on my system) and turn on Gamma Correction. But that is what I would do, others will probably tell you differently 

I suppose, if you told a bunch of artists to render an image, you'd get 100000's of different images.

Just to understand the level of image and render quality I am seeking, I like these from this list:

Carodan

pjz99

ice-boy

BB

So far, My renders are looking rather "cartoonishishy airbrushed digitally" for me (I have one going now using pjz99's settings from his image, he must have a super computer =/). Throughout the varied threads, they discussed far too many settings for a novice to follow. Understand that I don't want to "mimic" what they do, but am pursuing a level of realism w/i that ballbark... I don't know why I feel the need to defend myself as an artist, but in some post/thread in my readings some of you guys ripped this guy a new one. Ouch =/

More painful than denistry w/o novacaine I imagine =P

"The render settings are always a matter of debate."

Yeah, hard for someone who doesn't know to make heads or tails of things =)

I by no means expect a magic number winning lotto ticket number =P I started in Bryce and have made a foundation in Carrara. I can get through this...

I hope =/

With debate I meant that whatever I will tell you (or anyone else for that matter) there will be others to tell you that it is wrong or they would have it differently. So only you can decide if a particular image fits your artistic vision - whatever the rendersettings.

But the images you linked to are more than just rendersettings. You will also need a good texture set, good material settings for the texture and good lighting and maybe depth of field, etc. Without these even the best rendersettings will produce poor results.

So the next step is to look at the VSS scripts to improve the skin. A real simpe tutorial to get you on your way here is at http://www.believable3d.com/resources/vss_for_dummies.php

The funny thing is that lighting with IDL and Gamma Correction is really simple compared to the tradional way - you just have to forget everything you learned about the "old" way of setting up lights in Poser.

YES, I am coming to grips that everything, such as it is/was, has become obsolete w/ regards to IDL.

I still use the Daz Complex Global Lighting for most my Poser renders, I'm not ashamed of it. The "Spring" preset still works very well...

I just upgraded in September to Poser 7 from Poser 5, and it wasn't until the holidays that I grabbed Pro 2010, so I'm way late in the game... Heavy duty info overload. NOne of what applies in either Bryce or Carrara applies to Poser, and definitely not "this"...

Put a Sponge Bob bandaid on me and I may stop the whining =)

MC you're doing great. Realism isn't necessary, unless you want it, then it is. I try to help people achieve realism. I try not to force people into it. But you're into it already and I've lurked for days instead of speaking. I'm really busy at work, but I want to help.

There's a ton to talk about. You're making progress - don't be overwhelmed.

First thing I want you to do - get my light meter, read about how to use it, and use it. You will find what you're doing wrong in this scene very quickly.

The light meter is here:

http://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/file-cabinet/BBLightMeter.zip?attredirects=0&d=1

And you can read about it here

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2798745&page=3#message_3627657

The light meter can show you:

1. How light is distributed in your scene and whether or not it is too even.

2. How much is the peak light. Are you over exposing?

3. Do you have a good balance between specular and diffuse (imbalance being caused by IDL alone - Indirect DIFFUSE Light)

This was a full render of the scene, w/ the ivy and trans left intact (I was bold and tired, pc can do the rest), but I forgot the material on the dome, so the scene wasn't lit properly =/ Will try again of course...

image <<

Took about 10 hours, w/ the trimmed down settings...

Hey, didn't see your post BB =)

I am devoting this evening to your studio light scene, VSS and everything else you have just linked =D It's more than just the thread posts, harder to chew and swallow, but packed with protein and fiber.

It is immensely appreciated, I can not thank you enough.

First off, I want to thank EVERYONE who took the time to explain so much info and in so much detail. I am immensely appreciative for your efforts =)

Took a while to sink in, had to read and re-read some of the lighting threads/posts here, and then had to follow up w/ some much needed downloads.

That said, and speaking honestly, BB's "room/script" has by far exceeded ANYTHING I have ever purchased or made with the intent to help better renders/quality for Poser. I am amazed at the results =/

Anyways, here is what my last few tests and experimentshave yielded...

I think too much stress was being emphasized on the render settings, It seems that so long as IDL is being used, the set-up is fairly simple, and adjust quality as needed...

Here is the render using someones settings, forgive, I tried to find who I learned them from, but couldn't fnd the thread/post again...

3 - 10 - 7 - 5 - .2 - 64

8 - 99 - 94 - 10 - .1 - 64

He also uses the synch filter and HSV Exponential at 2.2... No GC.

4 - 40 - 30 - 10 - .1 - 64

I have more tests, but I don't want to bore you just yet =)