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Poser F.A.Q (Updated: 2016 Nov 29 4:50 pm)


 Subject: Render setttings, AO Light Settings and Seams showing, need help...

MatCreator opened this issue on Feb 08, 2011 · 116 posts

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  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:40PM Tue, 08 February 2011 


I was having some problems in Daz Studio, and when I resolved the problem it got me to thinking about similar problems I'm having in Poser Pro 2010...

In my renders that use an AO light set up, I find that I get shadows or dark blotchiness around/on the wireframes of my models... I found that if I use the same light preset without the AO option, it renders fine. I imagine this is something that can be fixed through some setting, but I do not know or have not found which yet...

I have also been getting the same splitting at the seams in Poser like in Daz Studio. Changing my render settings fixed that, but the same is not working for the Poser settings... In Poser the shading rate is already at .2, I wouldnt know what else to adjust...

It is the HDRVFX Pond AO, which is w/ the original Poser Pro content I believe...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:41PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762091


Thisis the same scene w/ ao turned off...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:41PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762092


And these are my render settings...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:42PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762094

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


And of course the light settings of the AO option.

...... sorry for the quadruple post =/

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 1:50PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762098

Turn off smooth polygons of the prop which has the wireframe problem or turn off smooth polygons completely in the render settings.

 


  JimTS    ( ) ( posted at 2:13PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762110

and turn off texture filtering in the affected materials (Material Room)

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So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 2:57PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762133

Turning off smooth polygons worked, thanks so much =)

I already had had the texture filtering off, I use SVDL's script for that =)

A few more things I'd like to know w/ regards to the render settings... Should indirect light be checked on, and what about the HDRI optomized output? On or off?

Also, the manual explains that for the depth of field to be enabled, it needs to be checked in the render settings, but I still don't see an option to adjust it through the camera parameters. What am I missing?

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 3:33PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762147

HDRI optimized output does not affect rendering. It is a file format in which the HDRI information is saved. To use this information (for postwork) you need an image editor capable of understanding this format.

Depth of field parameters are set in the camera controls. Focus distance controls the focus centre - move the dial and a "target" will appear. fStop controls the area which remains in focus.

IDL controls the lighting of the scene and is a whole chapter by itself. It adds light emitted from the environment. So you need an enclosed space (room or a skydome) to get the light from. You do not need AO for IDL. Search in the forums here to find more info on IDL, there are a lot of threads about it

 


  hborre    ( ) ( posted at 3:34PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762152

Leave those settings alone for the moment.  IDL, Indirect Lighting, will disable your light-based AO for your render.  Unless you are interested in rendering a more realistic lighting situation, you may be better off without it. 

Dr. Geep has a discussion and tutorial on how to use DoF.  It is a little more complicated than activating in your render settings.  You need to establish your focuse first within Poser.  Also, you would need to increase your pixel sampling to 10 or above, which will significantly increase your render time.


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 4:01PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762166

Thanks a ton for the info, its is greatly appreciated =)

Actually, I am experiemnting and practicing on Lights for a skydome, if that should determine which way to set up anything, please do not hesistate to explain =)

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  JenX    ( ) ( posted at 4:09PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762171

FYI, you don't have to put the black blocks up if you tag your post for nudity ;)

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  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 4:19PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762182

LOL, I don't know these things =P

::: now I see it :::

Thanks... I thought some kid might pop in here and who knows what =/ Then I'm labeled a pornographer or something...

Just what I need =P

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 4:21PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762177

For IDL the skydome should be self-lit. You can do this by attaching the sky texture to the Ambient channel or to the ALT-Diffuse channel. Set the normal diffuse channel to 0 but keep the texture attached so it will still show up in preview.

You then need the actual light such as the sun or one (or more) lamps. This depends entirely on the scene and environment you want to create. Switch on Raytraced shadows for these lights and use squared falloff for spots or point lights.

Then turn on rayracing and IDL in the render settings - use at least 1 bounce - and render

Now you will see what IDL will do. After that you probably need to tweak the lights and materials and increase the rendersettings to get the result you want. Experiment until you are satisfied before you increase the rendersettings since rendering might take a long time.

 


  pjz99    ( ) ( posted at 4:39PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762191

As Wimvdb says, using a skydome or other kind of fully enclosed render environment is pretty key to making IDL/Global Illumination renders look good, you are on the right track.

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  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 5:20PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762212

Thanks SOOOOOOOOOO much =)

I am testing lights and IDL w/ my skydomes "as we speak" while searching thru the forums for info. I must've bookmarked 7 threads on IDL and lighting.

At first I was getting just black renders, but the process is getting better.

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 5:42PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762221


Ok, 2 things =P

How does one set spot lights to squared falloff?!? I couldn't find that option...

Also, I had to connect the sky map to the diffuse, Ambient Color and Alternate Diffuse to set at 0 AND get to show. Is the screencap what you meant?!?

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 5:42PM Tue, 08 February 2011 · edited on 5:44PM Tue, 08 February 2011 · @3762223

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


This is the render settings...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 5:44PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762224

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


And the render w/ those applied settings... Much better, but I wouldn't know where to begin to adjust for image quality...

Maybe I have too many lights and can decrease their intensity?!? But is it light adjustmente or settings that need to be fixed =/

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 5:50PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762228

Last thought...

When using IDL, if we are using sky domes, can we use an IBL applied to the dome?!? I was experiemnting w/ using the sky maps as lights, but was only getting black renders. Is this because we can't use IBL's w/ IDL, or should I play w/ the lights to find the correct settings for a good render?!?

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  richardson    ( ) ( posted at 6:04PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762239

Too hot on the lights.. (too many). IDL can do this with one light. Even set to 80% or less. I'd turn off all your lights save one "sun" or 2 for "2 suns" if that's the case. Perhaps a second spot set to specular only for surface quality. The rest,, just try it out in the material room. Takes a few seconds. Try a HDR image. Tons free on the net.


  hborre    ( ) ( posted at 6:07PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762242

No need to connect your image map to both ambient_color and Alt_Diffuse.  But your ambient_color is black, so it does not have any effect whatsoever.  How many lights do you have in your scene.


  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 6:22PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762257

For the light fall-off. Go to the properties tab of the light. On the bottom there is attenuation - this is now set to constant, you can set it to squared. You can not do this for infinite light

The skydome is OK (no need for both ambient and altdiffuse, one is enough)

In the scene you have way too much light. In this case - as richardson said - one (or two) infinite lights with no square fall-off is what you should start with. Disable all other lights.

No need for IBL here and no need to connect the maps anywhere. See what you get and reduce light intensity of it still too bright. Be sure to use raytraced lights (properties tab) and set the shadow blur to 1.0 or higher

If you want to use Gamma Correction, you have to turn that one on now before fiddling with the lights since you have to do it all over again if you want to use it later.

 


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 7:00PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762275

So much useful info, I can not thank you guys enough =)

I will do as you suggest and post results.

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 7:08PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762293

To answer the question, the scene rendered had 3 lights, one IBL Diffuse w/ the sky image, and 2 spot lights. They were at default of 100 intensity. I "was" trying to achieve a light from image effect, but it seems this is not necessary.

As a Carrara user, I can say the adjustment of lighting technique is a bit rough. I try to learn from purchased light sets, but that has not helped much. I have been using Poser for over 12 years, but never like this... I'd grab a figure, and that was pretty much it, rendering and lighting was done in other programs... Each program has its own way, I don't mind learning.

Again, I truly appreciate all the advice and feedback =D

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 8:02PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762322

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


Ok, last post, I promise...

When I try to change the light setting, the only three choices are Constant, Inverse Linear and Inverse Square, I see no Squared Falloff =/

I see where I was going wrong w/ the material on the skydome. As stated, I had the color chip set to black, and the value at 0. When I changed the chip to white and set the value to one, it became visible w/o the need for doubling it in the alterante diffuse channel.

This render uses 3 lights, one infinite and 2 spots, but I'm curious... Would I use an .hdr on an infinite light? I thought those were best used on the IBL Diffuse lights, and even further, can I not replace the .hdr w/ the sky dome image so that the image provides a souce of light?!?

More experiemnting is in order, but the results of the last few edits were amazing and show potential...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 8:38PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762340

I meant inverse square - I shortened it a bit

On the skydome: The diffuse channel's color depends on the light it receives - so it only shows when light hits it. The Alt-diffuse is not depending on light - it always shows the texture. The ambient channel actually emits color. So the last two are "self-lit" and the diffuse channel is not. IDL takes as its light source the skydome. If it is not self-lit it uses only the little light which hits the skydome from other light sources. With the self-lit dome it takes the entire texture as a light source

The HDR image is used with IBL (Image Based Lighting). With IDL (InDirect Light) you don't want the HDR image: The Skydome is providing the light and not the HDR image. Actually: If the HDR image is of the right format, you can use it as the skydome texture - in a real scenario the HDR iimage is a reflection of the skydome.

In the image I still think you have too much light: The figure does not cast a shadow, which it should (or the shadow is barely visible). Experiment with only the infinite light and then add the others one by one

 


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 9:34PM Tue, 08 February 2011  · @3762363

It's all marinating on me, thanks so much =)

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:34PM Wed, 09 February 2011 · edited on 1:42PM Wed, 09 February 2011 · @3762642

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


Ready for round two =)

Ok, after having exhausted the readings in the threads, and before having explored BB poser file and the VSS "stuff", I tried a few more renders and wanted to know/understand a few more things...

Someone mentioned making a light a specular only light... I don't know how to do this, can someone please explain?

wimvdb, you mentioned that the shadows are not being cast... I guess I know and see the shadow, it's slight, but nonetheless brings me to my 2nd question. What setting are we supposed to adjust for better shadows? In the paramters is a shadow dial, and in the properties there are 2 features for shadows, but between them I wouldn't know which to adjust. Default, they load at 0 and 19, but I don't know what these are measurements of.

Lastly, after reading through the forums and trying to grasp how to best set a scene for IDL, I am still unclear about the render settings, which seem to be more of the outputs result than anything else..... I believe my dome and its materials are set up properly, and am using the lights as suggested (I think), but there was so much debate over render settings, using the d3d render script, and all other things which are just over my head...

This screencap shows the scene w/ the lights and how they are set up. The middle light is an infinite light at 86% intensity, shadow blur of 4 and samples of 19. The 2 spotlights on the side are 68%, 8, 19.....

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:35PM Wed, 09 February 2011 · edited on 1:43PM Wed, 09 February 2011 · @3762644

Content Advisory! Nudity advisory.


And the resulting render...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  MatCreator    ( ) ( posted at 1:36PM Wed, 09 February 2011  · @3762645


And the render settings...

There are 3 kinds of people in the world. Those that can count, and those that can't..


  wimvdb    ( ) ( posted at 1:58PM Wed, 09 February 2011  · @3762656

The "shadow" value tells Poser how dark the shadows are

The shadow samples tells Poser how accurate the shadows must be (adjust this when the shadow is too pixelated)

The Shadow blur defines the sharpness of the shadow - the sun casts usually a sharp shadow and other lights usually less sharp. Value should be between 1.0 (sharp) and 6 or even more (veryt blurred)

Raytraced shadows are more accurate as depthmapped shadows - If you use depthmapped you must adjust the Map size to a much larger size - it depends on the size of the scene. This is not necessary for raytraced shadows - these are always accurate.

The Minimum Shading Rate in Render Settings defines how detailes the shadows are. For draft renders set it to 1.0 and for quality renders to 0.25 or even lower.

In the rendersettings Raytracing must be enabled for Raytraces shadows, IDL, reflections and some other poser features. How many bounces depends on the materials which are used. Think of it as the number of barriers it can penetrate. A mirror reflecting another mirror needs at least 2 bounces otherwise it will not show the second reflection.

The Quality setting for IDL is a single dial for a mix of parameters. If you want to see these or change these, you can use d3d's renderscript: Scripts:Partners:Dimension3D:Render Firefly.  If you run it you will see a set of values for Indirect Lighting. The most important ones are Bounces and Irradiance Cache. The higher they are set, the more accurate the IDL is and the longer the render will take. Start low and increase if necessary

 


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